Windows 10? (Was: Lost communications with mount)


Mike Dodd
 

On 12/30/2020 10:23 PM, deonb wrote:
Windows 7 on parallels. By now
it's an 11 year old operating system that got obsoleted 8 years ago, and
stopped getting security updates a year ago.
As a developer myself....
You probably know quite a bit about Windows 10 Professional. I still use Win 7 Pro on my observatory computer, and am well-aware of the issues you mentioned. I would like to use Win 10, but....

I have metered Internet data, and when I bought a Win 10 Pro PC for my home office a few years ago, its automatic upgrades burned through 8 GB of my 10 GB monthly quota in one day! After three phone calls with Microsoft Support (they DID call me back, usually within an hour), I was told there was no way to bring the updates completely under my control, so I rolled-back to Win 8.1 on that PC.

QUESTION: Has Microsoft upgraded Win 10 Pro to allow full user control over updates? I've heard rumors they have. I want to be able to choose when an update is downloaded, so I can do that when we're not close to our data limit. I can't have the OS assume I have unlimited Internet data.

QUESTION: I've heard horror stories about updates that result in application and driver crashes. Are these issues pretty-much a thing of the past, or do updates still cause problems?

Thank you for your information and comments about the current Windows 10 Professional.

--- Mike


 

imo there is no easy answer for Windows 10 upgrade

If it were me, i would not try to upgrade but rather start with a fresh install or better yet a new computer with windows 10 already installed

Most of the headaches i've had over the years related to the upgrade process rather than actual Windows 10 capabilities.

Regarding updates and internet access, imo it seems an unfortunate situation that constantly updated software and OS is where we are headed, which has both good and bad consequences.

Personally I keep everything updated as much as possible and I have not run into many major issues (none that I can recall in recent memory, and i run 2-3 remote telescope setups).  




On Thu, Dec 31, 2020 at 10:20 AM Mike Dodd <mike@...> wrote:
On 12/30/2020 10:23 PM, deonb wrote:
>Windows 7 on parallels. By now
> it's an 11 year old operating system that got obsoleted 8 years ago, and
> stopped getting security updates a year ago.

> As a developer myself....

You probably know quite a bit about Windows 10 Professional. I still use
Win 7 Pro on my observatory computer, and am well-aware of the issues
you mentioned. I would like to use Win 10, but....

I have metered Internet data, and when I bought a Win 10 Pro PC for my
home office a few years ago, its automatic upgrades burned through 8 GB
of my 10 GB monthly quota in one day! After three phone calls with
Microsoft Support (they DID call me back, usually within an hour), I was
told there was no way to bring the updates completely under my control,
so I rolled-back to Win 8.1 on that PC.

QUESTION: Has Microsoft upgraded Win 10 Pro to allow full user control
over updates? I've heard rumors they have. I want to be able to choose
when an update is downloaded, so I can do that when we're not close to
our data limit. I can't have the OS assume I have unlimited Internet data.

QUESTION: I've heard horror stories about updates that result in
application and driver crashes. Are these issues pretty-much a thing of
the past, or do updates still cause problems?

Thank you for your information and comments about the current Windows 10
Professional.

--- Mike








--
Brian 



Brian Valente


Worsel
 

Mike

MS has given the user more, but not complete control, over updates.

https://www.techrepublic.com/article/how-to-control-updates-in-windows-10/

I have had WIN10 Pro since it first came out.  Early on, updates caused me some grief with astro software, but nothing in the last 2 years.

Bryan


Mike Dodd
 

On 12/31/2020 1:25 PM, Brian Valente wrote:
imo there is no easy answer for Windows 10 upgrade

If it were me, i would not try to upgrade but rather start with a fresh
install or better yet a new computer with windows 10 already installed.
Right. I'm not thinking of UPGRADING the observatory PC from Win 7 to 10. I would buy a different PC with Win 10 Pro already installed, and move all my drivers and apps to that.

Regarding updates and internet access, imo it seems an
unfortunate situation that constantly updated software and OS is where
we are headed, which has both good and bad consequences.
That's a real shame. I really don't like software vendors assuming everyone has unlimited Internet speed and data. I live in a rural Virginia county, and get Internet via a 4G cell tower. We don't stream anything, and can't join a Zoom call because of the limited speed and data. But I have fairly dark skies. :-)

--- Mike


Mike Dodd
 

On 12/31/2020 1:32 PM, Worsel via groups.io wrote:

MS has given the user more, but not complete control, over updates.
https://www.techrepublic.com/article/how-to-control-updates-in-windows-10/
Thank you, Bryan. That article is very encouraging. Nice to be able to disable updates during hours of darkness.

I'm a bit concerned about how long to defer updates. Often the observatory PC doesn't run for days at a time. I don't want to turn it on for an imaging session after a week of bright Moon, only to have it start downloading and installing updates.

I have had WIN10 Pro since it first came out. Early on, updates caused
me some grief with astro software, but nothing in the last 2 years.
Good news. Thanks again.

--- Mike


deonb
 

On Thu, Dec 31, 2020 at 10:39 AM, Mike Dodd wrote:
That's a real shame. I really don't like software vendors assuming everyone has unlimited Internet speed and data. I live in a rural Virginia county, and get Internet via a 4G cell tower. We don't stream anything, and can't join a Zoom call because of the limited speed and data. But I have fairly dark skies. :-)
Microsoft for so many years have been the brunt of jokes about Windows being insecure that they'll rather loose users than not have them update regularly. I can't say I blame them.

However, in your case, definitely use Pro - it helps a lot, Home will give you no control. Set all your connections to metered, and disable updates in Group Policy.

And maybe <ducks> ... Starlink.


 

One thing you can try is downloading updates to a thumb drive when you have access to internet that isn't metered, and installing them to your computer when you want to do updating. This would allow you to keep your computer current, while having the automatic updates disabled and preventing the dreaded mid-run update. 


Liam




From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of deonb <deonb@...>
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2020 12:58 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Windows 10? (Was: Lost communications with mount)
 
On Thu, Dec 31, 2020 at 10:39 AM, Mike Dodd wrote:
That's a real shame. I really don't like software vendors assuming everyone has unlimited Internet speed and data. I live in a rural Virginia county, and get Internet via a 4G cell tower. We don't stream anything, and can't join a Zoom call because of the limited speed and data. But I have fairly dark skies. :-)
Microsoft for so many years have been the brunt of jokes about Windows being insecure that they'll rather loose users than not have them update regularly. I can't say I blame them.

However, in your case, definitely use Pro - it helps a lot, Home will give you no control. Set all your connections to metered, and disable updates in Group Policy.

And maybe <ducks> ... Starlink.


Astronut
 

Hi Mike,
For years, Microsoft has offered LTSB (Long Term Servicing Branch) versions of OS's.
They are designed to not need the same degree of updates as prosumer/consumer versions of the OS's and although they DO push out important security updates (as they should), they don't seem to replace the entire OS every month (sarcasm, sort of..)
You might want to look into that option... (Search "Windows 10 LTSB") It really does cut down on most of the regular monthly "rollup" 'big' updates... 
Thanks,
Tim


Mike Dodd
 

On 1/4/2021 5:31 PM, Astronut wrote:
Hi Mike,
For years, Microsoft has offered LTSB (Long Term Servicing Branch)
versions of OS's. [...]
You might want to look into that option... (Search "Windows 10 LTSB") It
really does cut down on most of the regular monthly "rollup" 'big'
updates...
Thanks, Tim. I read the article, and it appears that LTSB is for Windows 10 Enterprise only. I'm not sure it would apply to Professional, which is what I could use on the obs PC.

I'll keep it in mind.

--- Mike


jrpmsn
 

It's the biannual updates to Win10 that are the big ones: they bring the functional and significant look-and-feel updates. The monthly ones generally are driver updates and fixes which are generally much smaller. Win10 tests the PC to see if it can handle the biannual one and only bugs you when and if it can. If the PC can take it, you still can defer the update for quite a while - though it does show up as available. If you have funky or old hardware with drivers not written (to Microsoft (evolving?) standards, updates can potentially be more problematic.

I upgraded to Win 10 from Win 7 (which I still run as a virtual machine) on my Dell as an upgrade. I ended up blowing away the whole install because of the mess the upgrade made. I freshly installed Win 10 and life became much better. Moral: If you're running Win 7, you're on an older machine. Keep it around as a spare (spares are gold!). Buy a new one with Win 10 installed (if you're happy with your Win 7 hardware, you won't need a top-end replacement PC since even a current midrange PC will be more powerful than your Win 7 PC). Then there's no disruption: you are functional on Win 7 until you have Win10 fully configured to your standards. Plus you have a fallback machine.


Joe Zeglinski
 

    We are probably off “Telescope Topic”  on Win-10 causing serious unexpected problems, to be solved  with just a fresh re-install – but ... Sorry, that’s not quite likely in many cases.
 
     A fresh install of Win-10 won’t solve all of one’s app & driver problems. The 6 month Win-10 Major Feature updates can be costly, and not just “inconvenient”.
For example, I have a multi-language “Printed text document to Word” (OCR) converter,   that cost me more than $700 in Win-XP and Win-7,  which still worked great in Win-8 and Win-10 -  right upto a bad day in June 2020, Then the calamitous Feature Update #2004, got installed – because, as usual,  I trusted Microsoft to not do much harm. Suddenly, with no warning or expectation, the (rarely used) app would not launch when I needed it, and it would have then cost me another $700 to replace it with the latest Win-10 “new company’s, sanctioned” version. The old one ran perfect for years,  in Win-10, upto just a week before. So, what changed ?
 
    Luckily, I had an old (e.g. ACRONIS)  full system backup from LAST Christmas, in my bookshelf archives, along with the most recent one, which had the now problematic Win-10 base.
The solution was to re-install that FAR out-dated year-old backup, but then transfer my own entire “current” User Account into the old O/S base. This gave me an old  Win-10 Fall Update #2019 version base O/S,  merged with  a current day account with ALL user folders and emails, etc. intact. Then I did another (safety) temporary backup, before I risked seeing what trouble installing the latest Feature Update from this past Fall, ( #20H2 ), might cause. Otherwise, I was prepared to freeze my Win-10 system for a decade or more.
 
    Having some spare time in retirement, after about 3 man-weeks  of 16 hour days trying every test & trick I could think of, and half a dozen Full system Recoveries to get the system and the app working, back to its previous normal state, I was ecstatic to find that after installing the most recent Win-10 Update #20H2, the app was back to normal and STILL worked again ! The sandwich of the year-old Update merged with the very latest one – completely skipping over the terrible Update #2004 – fixed it ... FINALLY.
 
    So, as I stated earlier, a simple fresh install of Win-10 won’t always fix everything, You may not even find out until much later which apps were suddenly harmed,  and may still  cost you hundreds of dollars loss in personal Time & investment, unless you recheck the continuing health of all your old investments in your purchased software apps.
 
     Must say – I was “DARNED Lucky”, THIS time. Unfortunately, Microsoft will continue to feel that it is improving everyone’s lives,  so keep doing and indeed keeping  as many full system emergency backups as will fit on a drive, as insurance.
 
    And Bill L. , before you complain (again)  ... this is NOT knocking your Microsoft friends, good people most of them – just the way in which I assume their departments  force them into “Publish or Perish”  to issue Feature Updates, ready or not. Can’t miss a 6-month deadline, can we? I do appreciate the new polite  MS option, asking if I  would really like to TRY the latest Feature Update.
 
    Far fewer major Feature Updates, much longer better tested Beta periods,  could be better. Except for serious Security Updates, maybe keep, the “Toys, Gaming, and new GUI Features” in a completely  different Microsoft ...  “special” Win-10-Gaming Edition product ...  away from “real WORK machines” that don’t usually need them.
If it ain’t badly broke, etc.  .... but that’s unlikely to happen.
 
    Now back to things, Telescopic.
Joe Z.
 
 

From: jrpmsn
Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2021 10:11 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Windows 10? (Was: Lost communications with mount)
 
It's the biannual updates to Win10 that are the big ones: they bring the functional and significant look-and-feel updates. The monthly ones generally are driver updates and fixes which are generally much smaller. Win10 tests the PC to see if it can handle the biannual one and only bugs you when and if it can. If the PC can take it, you still can defer the update for quite a while - though it does show up as available. If you have funky or old hardware with drivers not written (to Microsoft (evolving?) standards, updates can potentially be more problematic.

I upgraded to Win 10 from Win 7 (which I still run as a virtual machine) on my Dell as an upgrade. I ended up blowing away the whole install because of the mess the upgrade made. I freshly installed Win 10 and life became much better. Moral: If you're running Win 7, you're on an older machine. Keep it around as a spare (spares are gold!). Buy a new one with Win 10 installed (if you're happy with your Win 7 hardware, you won't need a top-end replacement PC since even a current midrange PC will be more powerful than your Win 7 PC). Then there's no disruption: you are functional on Win 7 until you have Win10 fully configured to your standards. Plus you have a fallback machine.