Topics

Voyager and APCC


Emilio J. Robau, P.E.
 

Hello,

I run Voyager on my computer to run my scopes, cameras, mount and so on and so forth.   Whenever I launch the three dimensional view of my scope in APCC to see the scope and mount in operation, the mount gets disconnected from Voyager and it is a pain to get reconnected.  I have to shut everything down and then start up again.  I posted this issue with the developer and he indicated that it was on the APCC side of the equation and to post a ticket.   Not looking to blame everyone, but I am looking to see if somehow this can be resolved since it is a known issue.  Voyager really is a spectacular piece of software and it would be good to be able to toggle to APCC to see where the scope is from time to time.  This is especially true when doing those weight side up slews so you can see the crash in action when it actually happens.  Gives you a second or two to actually fret or even chicken out and stop it.  I would rather see it happen then not.  It is like if you are going to have an accident, you might as well see it coming.  If you are going to have a heart attack you might as well fell the angina first, because you may be able to get a triple bypass to delay it for some time.  You know what I mean?

Another quick question.  I notice that APCC recommends not installing the latest version of ASCOM.  Is there any reason for this?  I am pretty sure that a thread exists out there so if you can send me in that direction I appreciate the lead.

Finally, thanks to Ray for providing a license for Pempro Version 3 after I had to rebuild my computer after the last tropical storm here in S. Florida rained on it in my observatory.  Funny thing is that it survived a direct hit from cat 3 or 4 Irma, but a weak tropical storm did it in. 


R Botero
 

Hi (what's your name?)

I am a user of Voyager and APCC also.  I don't leave the 3D view on (I have an IPCam in my RoR shed in case I want to check where the mount/scope are) but I don't encounter the issue you have.  What graphic card and RAM do you have on your PC?   The reported disconnection of the mount by Voyager happens when the latter cannot poll the mount as often as required.  This usually happens when your software environment doesn't have enough resources.  I get this sometimes when I am running image processing software (PixInsight) at the same time as all my imaging applications - not recommended!  Voyager eventually recovers as (memory) resources become available.  You could check this by closing the 3D view when you see the error message in the Monitor tab of Voyager.

Ray will confirm if any of the above if of use in your case. 

As for ASCOM, I use the latest version of the platform (6.5 SP1) and have no issues with APCC.  There were some problems for APCC-Pro users, not of APCC, but those have supposedly been resolved with SP1.

Good luck!

Roberto


Emilio J. Robau, P.E.
 

I use APCC pro.

I don't leave my 3D view on.  I have launched it from time to time to understand that it disconnects from Voyager and causes a problem when it is launched even before I start to slew and am doing nothing else but have the equipment connected.  I don't necessarily want to leave it on all the time.   I just want to be able to launch it from time to time, especially when I do slews of interest.

I don't think Voyager gives you any opportunity to recover and close the 3D view.  If that is an option, that is preferred for sure, and I am going to check it, but the functionality of being able to see the 3d view in APCC pro is desirable any time I want to access it. 

I discussed the issue with Leonardo via an email and he pointed me to Ray.  The issue is a known issue. He indicated that I needed to open a ticket with APCC.

I am glad you don't experience it.   My computer resources are excellent.  I am not doing anything in the background but imaging, so I really doubt it is a resource issue, but I may be incorrect.  

In fact, this issue has arisen on two different machines and the current machine that runs the setup is a relatively strong machine and is a brand new.  I can't remember the card, but I have 16 GB on the motherboard and am running Win 10 with the latest service packs.

In order to eliminate any issues, I am migrating to the latest issuance of ASCOM, unless someone chimes in and says not to at this point in time.


R Botero
 

Are you running Voyager as Admin and letting it open APCC?

I don't have APCC-Pro but it should make no difference.  I suspect the above.  Hopefully Ray can help but if he cannot replicate the issue (unless he is a user of Voyager) it will be difficult to pinpoint where it arises.  Have your APCC logs ready...

Roberto


Ray Gralak
 

I run Voyager on my computer to run my scopes, cameras, mount and so on and so forth. Whenever I launch
the three dimensional view of my scope in APCC to see the scope and mount in operation, the mount gets
disconnected from Voyager and it is a pain to get reconnected.
That is a sign of a 3D graphics resource or performance issue.

Are you using a remote desktop application of some sort? Some remote desktop apps are inefficient at displaying 3D.

If not using remote desktop, does the computer have a discrete video card, or are you using the built in video output of the CPU?

-Ray Gralak
Author of PEMPro
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver


-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of ejr@robau-designs.com
Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2021 8:54 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: [ap-gto] Voyager and APCC

Hello,

I run Voyager on my computer to run my scopes, cameras, mount and so on and so forth. Whenever I launch
the three dimensional view of my scope in APCC to see the scope and mount in operation, the mount gets
disconnected from Voyager and it is a pain to get reconnected. I have to shut everything down and then start up
again. I posted this issue with the developer and he indicated that it was on the APCC side of the equation and
to post a ticket. Not looking to blame everyone, but I am looking to see if somehow this can be resolved since it
is a known issue. Voyager really is a spectacular piece of software and it would be good to be able to toggle to
APCC to see where the scope is from time to time. This is especially true when doing those weight side up slews
so you can see the crash in action when it actually happens. Gives you a second or two to actually fret or even
chicken out and stop it. I would rather see it happen then not. It is like if you are going to have an accident, you
might as well see it coming. If you are going to have a heart attack you might as well fell the angina first,
because you may be able to get a triple bypass to delay it for some time. You know what I mean?

Another quick question. I notice that APCC recommends not installing the latest version of ASCOM. Is there any
reason for this? I am pretty sure that a thread exists out there so if you can send me in that direction I appreciate
the lead.



Finally, thanks to Ray for providing a license for Pempro Version 3 after I had to rebuild my computer after the
last tropical storm here in S. Florida rained on it in my observatory. Funny thing is that it survived a direct hit from
cat 3 or 4 Irma, but a weak tropical storm did it in.


Emilio J. Robau, P.E.
 

I think you may have pegged it.  Yes, I am using remote desktop.  I will test it out locally, but I could swear that it happens locally and yes, I have a separate card.  Maybe I invest in another separate card.  Is it okay to go to the next level of ASCOM?   Last time I installed APCC Pro, I think I recall a warning to stay on 6.4 SP1.


Ray Gralak
 

I think you may have pegged it. Yes, I am using remote desktop. I will test it out locally, but I could swear that it
happens locally and yes, I have a separate card. Maybe I invest in another separate card. Is it okay to go to the
next level of ASCOM? Last time I installed APCC Pro, I think I recall a warning to stay on 6.4 SP1.
It is now okay to update to ASCOM 6.5 SP1.

Are you using Windows' built-in Remote Desktop? Or some 3rd-party application, like TeamViewer?

Windows Remote Desktop is usually more efficient than 3rd-party applications, so if you are using it, are you remoted to the other system via hardwire Ethernet, or WiFi? If you are using WiFi, that can cause graphics update delays if there is congestion or interference.

By the way, I assume you are using APCC Pro/Standard 1.8.8.x, correct? Some of the earlier versions of APCC could get more easily "stalled" waiting for display output to finish over a remote connection.

-Ray Gralak
Author of PEMPro
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver


-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of ejr@robau-designs.com
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2021 8:58 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Voyager and APCC

I think you may have pegged it. Yes, I am using remote desktop. I will test it out locally, but I could swear that it
happens locally and yes, I have a separate card. Maybe I invest in another separate card. Is it okay to go to the
next level of ASCOM? Last time I installed APCC Pro, I think I recall a warning to stay on 6.4 SP1.


Emilio J. Robau, P.E.
 

Latest version of Windows. 
Using Windows 10 pro, so I RDP to it via Windows RDP. 
Latest version of APCC pro. 
Cat 6 ethernet to the observatory from my office upstairs in my home to the observatory in the back yard.   
Leodardo the developer of Voyager indicated that he experiences the same thing.
My next move would be the upgraded graphics card or attempt a more detailed analysis without RDP.


Ray Gralak
 

The 3D view should not require too much 3D resource. I doubt a higher-performance graphics card would make a difference.

What kind of desktop resolution are you using when you remote? If it is something like 4K you could try something less taxing, like 1920x1080.

Also, you could run Windows Task Manager to see the utilization of each resource type on the "Performance" tab.

-Ray Gralak
Author of PEMPro
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of ejr@robau-designs.com
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2021 9:24 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Voyager and APCC

Latest version of Windows.
Using Windows 10 pro, so I RDP to it via Windows RDP.
Latest version of APCC pro.
Cat 6 ethernet to the observatory from my office upstairs in my home to the observatory in the back yard.
Leodardo the developer of Voyager indicated that he experiences the same thing.
My next move would be the upgraded graphics card or attempt a more detailed analysis without RDP.


Dale Ghent
 

As a data point, I use the 3D view every session and over RDP (over wifi which then ends up going over my home's internal 1Gb ethernet or wifi network) as well. The mini-PC that runs my stuff is a Whiskey Lake i5-8265U based system and the RDP clients are anything from Windows PCs and Macs to iPhones and iPads - it works fine on all. The Whiskey Lake i5 system (OnLogic ML100G-51) has only the integrated Intel UHD 620 GPU.

NINA, PHD2, and SharpCap are all clients to APCC and the ASCOM driver while the 3D view is running and nothing bad happens in either app when the view is opened while they are connected.

Perhaps Voyager polls its connected drivers at a more aggressive rate and is sensitive to even a momentary unresponsiveness caused by the 3D view being opened and loaded?

On Jan 4, 2021, at 12:24, ejr@robau-designs.com wrote:

Latest version of Windows.
Using Windows 10 pro, so I RDP to it via Windows RDP.
Latest version of APCC pro.
Cat 6 ethernet to the observatory from my office upstairs in my home to the observatory in the back yard.
Leodardo the developer of Voyager indicated that he experiences the same thing.
My next move would be the upgraded graphics card or attempt a more detailed analysis without RDP.


 

fwiw we use 3D view all the time with both Anydesk and Teamviewer remote access software. never had problems


On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 10:08 AM Dale Ghent <daleg@...> wrote:

As a data point, I use the 3D view every session and over RDP (over wifi which then ends up going over my home's internal 1Gb ethernet or wifi network) as well. The mini-PC that runs my stuff is a Whiskey Lake i5-8265U based system and the RDP clients are anything from Windows PCs and Macs to iPhones and iPads - it works fine on all. The Whiskey Lake i5 system (OnLogic ML100G-51) has only the integrated Intel UHD 620 GPU.

NINA, PHD2, and SharpCap are all clients to APCC and the ASCOM driver while the 3D view is running and nothing bad happens in either app when the view is opened while they are connected.

Perhaps Voyager polls its connected drivers at a more aggressive rate and is sensitive to even a momentary unresponsiveness caused by the 3D view being opened and loaded?

> On Jan 4, 2021, at 12:24, ejr@... wrote:
>
> Latest version of Windows.
> Using Windows 10 pro, so I RDP to it via Windows RDP.
> Latest version of APCC pro.
> Cat 6 ethernet to the observatory from my office upstairs in my home to the observatory in the back yard.   
> Leodardo the developer of Voyager indicated that he experiences the same thing.
> My next move would be the upgraded graphics card or attempt a more detailed analysis without RDP.
>








--
Brian 



Brian Valente