Tool for saddle clamping


drgert1
 

Hello All, 

I just saw this helpful tool for ADM saddle bolts.

https://www.admaccessories.com/product/rosette-knob-hand-tool/

Is there the same for AP product ??

Cheers 
Gert 


Dale Ghent
 

Yes, it's called a 3/16" hex key ;)

On Jul 23, 2021, at 18:25, drgert1 via groups.io <drgert1=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Hello All,

I just saw this helpful tool for ADM saddle bolts.

https://www.admaccessories.com/product/rosette-knob-hand-tool/

Is there the same for AP product ??

Cheers
Gert


Eric Weiner
 

“Yes, it's called a 3/16" hex key ;)”

+1

On Jul 23, 2021, at 16:54, Dale Ghent <daleg@elemental.org> wrote:

Yes, it's called a 3/16" hex key ;)


drgert1
 

Hello All,

I am not seeing a way to use the hex key. Has there been a production change of the knobs?



Cheers,
Gert


David
 

The newer ones in the last few years all are tightened with a hex key besides just finger tightening.
See their website.

David


On Jul 24, 2021, at 12:29 PM, drgert1 via groups.io <drgert1@...> wrote:

Hello All,

I am not seeing a way to use the hex key. Has there been a production change of the knobs?

<AP_Saddle_20210724_102427s.jpg>


Cheers,
Gert


Kent Kirkley
 

Using a tool to tighten?
You have to be very careful as to not over tighten.
A few years ago I acquired a previously owned SB Paramount ME.
The owner had mounted a 16inch RCOS on it and had over tightened the
Versaplate knobs, bending and ruining them.



-----Original Message-----
From: David via groups.io <phrosty5@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Sat, Jul 24, 2021 1:24 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Tool for saddle clamping

The newer ones in the last few years all are tightened with a hex key besides just finger tightening.
See their website.

David


On Jul 24, 2021, at 12:29 PM, drgert1 via groups.io <drgert1@...> wrote:

Hello All,

I am not seeing a way to use the hex key. Has there been a production change of the knobs?

<AP_Saddle_20210724_102427s.jpg>


Cheers,
Gert


M Hambrick
 

Hi Gert

Out of curiosity what is the part number of your dovetail plate ? The knobs look like those on my DOVE15 which has no hex head bolts in the clamping knobs either.

I have had pretty good luck using a jar lid gripper on these knobs. They are simple, cheap, and effective. You can find them in the kitchen section of most department stores (e.g. Wal-Mart). I have noticed something interesting about these grippers though. It seems that after a period of time they will lose their "grippiness" and you will have to replace it.

Mike


Robert Chozick
 

I also use the grippers to tighten mine.  I usually get a good 1/4 turn or more with them.

Robert

On Jul 24, 2021, at 1:55 PM, M Hambrick <mhambrick563@...> wrote:

Hi Gert

Out of curiosity what is the part number of your dovetail plate ? The knobs look like those on my DOVE15 which has no hex head bolts in the clamping knobs either.

I have had pretty good luck using a jar lid gripper on these knobs. They are simple, cheap, and effective. You can find them in the kitchen section of most department stores (e.g. Wal-Mart). I have noticed something interesting about these grippers though. It seems that after a period of time they will lose their "grippiness" and you will have to replace it.

Mike <Jar Lid Gripper, IMG_3646.JPG>


Woody Schlom
 

A small strap-wrench would probably also work.  They have lots of leverage and the rubber/plastic parts don’t mar the aluminum.

 

But I’m confused.  All my AP knobs have a hex socket in the middle of the knob.  That said, all mine are at least 6 years old.  So maybe AP has recently changed to the solid knobs with no hex socket in the middle.  Too bad.  Although I’ve NEVER needed to tighten anything that tight.  But I can see perhaps needing the hex key to loosen a stuck or seized knob.

 

Woody

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of M Hambrick
Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2021 11:56 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Tool for saddle clamping

 

Hi Gert

Out of curiosity what is the part number of your dovetail plate ? The knobs look like those on my DOVE15 which has no hex head bolts in the clamping knobs either.

I have had pretty good luck using a jar lid gripper on these knobs. They are simple, cheap, and effective. You can find them in the kitchen section of most department stores (e.g. Wal-Mart). I have noticed something interesting about these grippers though. It seems that after a period of time they will lose their "grippiness" and you will have to replace it.

Mike


Jack Huerkamp
 

I find that the ADM Rosette Know Hand Tool works well for me:

 

ADM Rosette Knob Hand Tool - TOOL (highpointscientific.com)

 

Yours truly,

 

Jack

 

Jack Huerkamp

Jack's Astro Accessories, LLC

38388 Pine Street

Pearl River, LA 70452-5192

985-445-5063

mallincamusa@...

www.mallincamusa.com

30.37N  89.76W

 

All of us get lost in the darkness.
Dreamers learn to steer by the stars.

………………………………….Neil Peart

 

 

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Woody Schlom
Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2021 2:54 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Tool for saddle clamping

 

A small strap-wrench would probably also work.  They have lots of leverage and the rubber/plastic parts don’t mar the aluminum.

 

But I’m confused.  All my AP knobs have a hex socket in the middle of the knob.  That said, all mine are at least 6 years old.  So maybe AP has recently changed to the solid knobs with no hex socket in the middle.  Too bad.  Although I’ve NEVER needed to tighten anything that tight.  But I can see perhaps needing the hex key to loosen a stuck or seized knob.

 

Woody

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of M Hambrick
Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2021 11:56 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Tool for saddle clamping

 

Hi Gert

Out of curiosity what is the part number of your dovetail plate ? The knobs look like those on my DOVE15 which has no hex head bolts in the clamping knobs either.

I have had pretty good luck using a jar lid gripper on these knobs. They are simple, cheap, and effective. You can find them in the kitchen section of most department stores (e.g. Wal-Mart). I have noticed something interesting about these grippers though. It seems that after a period of time they will lose their "grippiness" and you will have to replace it.

Mike


Virus-free. www.avg.com


Christopher Erickson
 

It wouldn't be too hard to CAD-up and 3D-print a slip-over knob that would allow for some additional hand force to remove a stuck knob that doesn't have the Allen key socket.

AP's dovetail lock design is the best of any I have ever seen. Angled brass pin with force being applied to a small area on the dovetail bar. Allowing enough targeted force to really clamp down, but without damaging or distorting the dovetail bar. Dovetail brackets that spread the force out along a longer clamp area or worst-of-all, along the entire length of the side of the bracket, aren't nearly as secure and are at much greater risk of a dovetail bar sliding unexpectedly in the bracket, and inviting disaster.

"Slip Sliding Away..."

"My advice is always free and worth every penny!"

-Christopher Erickson
Observatory Engineer
Summit Kinetics
Waikoloa, Hawaii


On Sat, Jul 24, 2021 at 12:53 PM Woody Schlom <woody_is@...> wrote:

A small strap-wrench would probably also work.  They have lots of leverage and the rubber/plastic parts don’t mar the aluminum.

 

But I’m confused.  All my AP knobs have a hex socket in the middle of the knob.  That said, all mine are at least 6 years old.  So maybe AP has recently changed to the solid knobs with no hex socket in the middle.  Too bad.  Although I’ve NEVER needed to tighten anything that tight.  But I can see perhaps needing the hex key to loosen a stuck or seized knob.

 

Woody

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of M Hambrick
Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2021 11:56 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Tool for saddle clamping

 

Hi Gert

Out of curiosity what is the part number of your dovetail plate ? The knobs look like those on my DOVE15 which has no hex head bolts in the clamping knobs either.

I have had pretty good luck using a jar lid gripper on these knobs. They are simple, cheap, and effective. You can find them in the kitchen section of most department stores (e.g. Wal-Mart). I have noticed something interesting about these grippers though. It seems that after a period of time they will lose their "grippiness" and you will have to replace it.

Mike


Woody Schlom
 

Jack,

 

That’s a great looking tool.  And I thought I knew everything ADM made and sold.

 

Woody

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jack Huerkamp
Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2021 4:51 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Cc: mallincamusa@...
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Tool for saddle clamping

 

I find that the ADM Rosette Know Hand Tool works well for me:

 

ADM Rosette Knob Hand Tool - TOOL (highpointscientific.com)

 

Yours truly,

 

Jack

 

Jack Huerkamp

Jack's Astro Accessories, LLC

38388 Pine Street

Pearl River, LA 70452-5192

985-445-5063

mallincamusa@...

www.mallincamusa.com

30.37N  89.76W

 

All of us get lost in the darkness.
Dreamers learn to steer by the stars.

………………………………….Neil Peart

 

 

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Woody Schlom
Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2021 2:54 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Tool for saddle clamping

 

A small strap-wrench would probably also work.  They have lots of leverage and the rubber/plastic parts don’t mar the aluminum.

 

But I’m confused.  All my AP knobs have a hex socket in the middle of the knob.  That said, all mine are at least 6 years old.  So maybe AP has recently changed to the solid knobs with no hex socket in the middle.  Too bad.  Although I’ve NEVER needed to tighten anything that tight.  But I can see perhaps needing the hex key to loosen a stuck or seized knob.

 

Woody

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of M Hambrick
Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2021 11:56 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Tool for saddle clamping

 

Hi Gert

Out of curiosity what is the part number of your dovetail plate ? The knobs look like those on my DOVE15 which has no hex head bolts in the clamping knobs either.

I have had pretty good luck using a jar lid gripper on these knobs. They are simple, cheap, and effective. You can find them in the kitchen section of most department stores (e.g. Wal-Mart). I have noticed something interesting about these grippers though. It seems that after a period of time they will lose their "grippiness" and you will have to replace it.

Mike

 

Virus-free. www.avg.com


Jack Huerkamp
 

Woody,

 

Anthony mentioned to me years ago he was working on a tool for the knobs, and with my aging hands, it has been a delight to use.

 

And the price is most reasonable when you consider the quality of the machining.

 

Yours truly,

 

Jack

 

Jack Huerkamp

Jack's Astro Accessories, LLC

38388 Pine Street

Pearl River, LA 70452-5192

985-445-5063

mallincamusa@...

www.mallincamusa.com

30.37N  89.76W

 

All of us get lost in the darkness.
Dreamers learn to steer by the stars.

………………………………….Neil Peart

 

 

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Woody Schlom
Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2021 7:43 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Tool for saddle clamping

 

Jack,

 

That’s a great looking tool.  And I thought I knew everything ADM made and sold.

 

Woody

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jack Huerkamp
Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2021 4:51 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Cc: mallincamusa@...
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Tool for saddle clamping

 

I find that the ADM Rosette Know Hand Tool works well for me:

 

ADM Rosette Knob Hand Tool - TOOL (highpointscientific.com)

 

Yours truly,

 

Jack

 

Jack Huerkamp

Jack's Astro Accessories, LLC

38388 Pine Street

Pearl River, LA 70452-5192

985-445-5063

mallincamusa@...

www.mallincamusa.com

30.37N  89.76W

 

All of us get lost in the darkness.
Dreamers learn to steer by the stars.

………………………………….Neil Peart

 

 

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Woody Schlom
Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2021 2:54 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Tool for saddle clamping

 

A small strap-wrench would probably also work.  They have lots of leverage and the rubber/plastic parts don’t mar the aluminum.

 

But I’m confused.  All my AP knobs have a hex socket in the middle of the knob.  That said, all mine are at least 6 years old.  So maybe AP has recently changed to the solid knobs with no hex socket in the middle.  Too bad.  Although I’ve NEVER needed to tighten anything that tight.  But I can see perhaps needing the hex key to loosen a stuck or seized knob.

 

Woody

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of M Hambrick
Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2021 11:56 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Tool for saddle clamping

 

Hi Gert

Out of curiosity what is the part number of your dovetail plate ? The knobs look like those on my DOVE15 which has no hex head bolts in the clamping knobs either.

I have had pretty good luck using a jar lid gripper on these knobs. They are simple, cheap, and effective. You can find them in the kitchen section of most department stores (e.g. Wal-Mart). I have noticed something interesting about these grippers though. It seems that after a period of time they will lose their "grippiness" and you will have to replace it.

Mike

 

Virus-free. www.avg.com


drgert1
 

Hello Mike,

The part is from 2005. At th time it was called DOVELM2. Maybe AP has replacement knobs? My main issue is not tightening the knobs, but loosening after an observing sessions (maybe late at night). I have seen temperature changes making the knobs tighter.

Cheers,
Gert


weems@...
 

I have the ADM Rosette Knob Tool, which I use with their TGAD that enables me to collimate my 6" f9 with the C14 on my tandem setup. Unfortunately, there is one knob on the TGAD that is blocked by the saddle, so I have to reach in with an adjustable wrench to turn it (which mars it up). Before I had the tool, I would turn the other knobs using the wrench and a piece of cloth wrapped around them, which gripped well enough without marring. 

Another place where AP knobs lack the hex key insert is the standard azimuth adjusters for the 900 mount, where it would be useful to have a little more leverage for finer movements. I'm still looking for one of the heavy-duty adjusters, which addressed the problem with larger knobs. The wrench/cloth technique doesn't help in that case, since it doesn't really allow for fine control.

Chip


M Hambrick
 

I think I see a trend here. The older dovetails (DOVE15 and DOVELM2) use the brass locking pins that Chris mentioned, and they also have plain knobs without the hex head assist feature. The newer designs of dovetail plates (DOVELM162 for example) have the wide clamps instead of locking pins and they all come with knobs that have the hex head feature.

I have a DOVELM162, and normally I will only use the little jar gripper to tighten the knobs, and if necessary I will use a hex key to break the clamps loose when I take everything down. Be careful using a hex key to tighten these knobs. I have seen several posts on the forum where members said they broke the hex head loose in the clamp from overtightening.

I do like the concept of the ADM Rosette Knob Tool though. I am going to look into getting one.

Mike


George
 

Guys,

 

Remember, these are not the lug nuts on your car wheels!

 

You do not have to tighten them more than hand tight.   If you’re using a 16” to 20” CDK, then you’d be using one of our larger dovetail saddles and it allows use of a hex key.  

 

Regards,

 

George

 

George Whitney

Astro-Physics, Inc.

Phone:  815-222-6538 (direct line)

Phone:  815-282-1513 (office)

Email:  george@...

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Christopher Erickson
Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2021 6:50 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Tool for saddle clamping

 

It wouldn't be too hard to CAD-up and 3D-print a slip-over knob that would allow for some additional hand force to remove a stuck knob that doesn't have the Allen key socket.

 

AP's dovetail lock design is the best of any I have ever seen. Angled brass pin with force being applied to a small area on the dovetail bar. Allowing enough targeted force to really clamp down, but without damaging or distorting the dovetail bar. Dovetail brackets that spread the force out along a longer clamp area or worst-of-all, along the entire length of the side of the bracket, aren't nearly as secure and are at much greater risk of a dovetail bar sliding unexpectedly in the bracket, and inviting disaster.

 

"Slip Sliding Away..."


"My advice is always free and worth every penny!"

 

-Christopher Erickson

Observatory Engineer

Summit Kinetics

Waikoloa, Hawaii

 

 

On Sat, Jul 24, 2021 at 12:53 PM Woody Schlom <woody_is@...> wrote:

A small strap-wrench would probably also work.  They have lots of leverage and the rubber/plastic parts don’t mar the aluminum.

 

But I’m confused.  All my AP knobs have a hex socket in the middle of the knob.  That said, all mine are at least 6 years old.  So maybe AP has recently changed to the solid knobs with no hex socket in the middle.  Too bad.  Although I’ve NEVER needed to tighten anything that tight.  But I can see perhaps needing the hex key to loosen a stuck or seized knob.

 

Woody

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of M Hambrick
Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2021 11:56 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Tool for saddle clamping

 

Hi Gert

Out of curiosity what is the part number of your dovetail plate ? The knobs look like those on my DOVE15 which has no hex head bolts in the clamping knobs either.

I have had pretty good luck using a jar lid gripper on these knobs. They are simple, cheap, and effective. You can find them in the kitchen section of most department stores (e.g. Wal-Mart). I have noticed something interesting about these grippers though. It seems that after a period of time they will lose their "grippiness" and you will have to replace it.

Mike


drgert1
 

@George,

Any option to replace 'old style' knobs (no hex key inset) with 'new style' ones (with hex key inset) ?

Cheers,
Gert


Dale Ghent
 

I wouldn't bother with trying to replace the knobs. You can look for a "soft jaw wrench" or "soft jaw pliers" and use them instead. They're regular adjustable wrenches that have a hard rubber or silicone jaw - strong enough to hold something, but flexible and soft enough that whatever it is isn't marred. The long handles give you all the leverage you might need.

https://www.amazon.com/soft-jaw-wrench/s?k=soft+jaw+wrench

I bet these would work well for your saddle knobs. Like George said, you need only a light touch when it comes to tightening them.

On Jul 26, 2021, at 17:11, drgert1 via groups.io <drgert1=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

@George,

Any option to replace 'old style' knobs (no hex key inset) with 'new style' ones (with hex key inset) ?

Cheers,
Gert


Joseph Beyer
 

I keep a pair of nitrile gloves in my equipment box and slip one on my right hand to get a bit more grip on the knob when removing the telescope.  I've always been able to release the knobs wearing the gloves no matter the temperature.  They are inexpensive enough to just replace when they age to the point of not being as effective.