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Tips for Implementing Remote Imaging in Chile

Brian Valente
 

Hi everyone

I mentioned our experience with remote imaging wasn't all sunshine and rainbows (we do love it and continue to do it).

Several of you requested the follow-up, so I've put together tips and observations from our experiences doing this for about 3+ years now. 


I don't claim to be the expert or that our experiences and suggestions apply to everyone, but we did learn some things along the way, and wanted to pass it along

Hope this helps any of you thinking about or considering remote hosting particularly in the Atacama Desert in Chile
ap@CaptivePhotons.com
 

On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 01:39 PM, Brian Valente wrote:
I've put together tips and observations from our experiences doing this for about 3+ years now. 
 
Very helpful and interesting.

I am curious -- why Chile instead of some of the remote sites in the US, where the import/export issues, and probably shipping, would be easier.  Is the seeing that much better there, or is it the more accessible southern skies? 

Linwood
Bill Long
 

Chile typically has better seeing and more clear nights available, not to mention access to the southern hemisphere objects.


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of ap@... <ap@...>
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2023 12:29 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Tips for Implementing Remote Imaging in Chile
 
On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 01:39 PM, Brian Valente wrote:
I've put together tips and observations from our experiences doing this for about 3+ years now. 
 
Very helpful and interesting.

I am curious -- why Chile instead of some of the remote sites in the US, where the import/export issues, and probably shipping, would be easier.  Is the seeing that much better there, or is it the more accessible southern skies? 

Linwood

Emilio J. Robau, P.E.
 

Lynwood,

I had the exact same question.  I do think that in Chile you have a veiw of the southern hemisphere skies and all the targets it presents.  I think the altitude is higher than the SW US spots and I think it is dryer also.  However, the logistics are very challanging.  
Brian Valente
 

Hi Linwood

First let me say the guide was not intended to be a discussion of selecting Chile over other locations. My partner chose it because he was looking for "the best skies available" regardless of cost and this is where he wanted. 

I intended only to pass along the things we learned while doing this, some of which may be applicable for any remote observing setup. There are a few wrinkles unique to Chile.

I think there are plenty of fine hosting environments in the Northern Hemisphere. We are halfway to building our own observatory here and have a second one in Oregon in the planning stages.

As others have pointed out the conditions in the atacama are unique for southern targets, high altitude, extremely low light pollution, dry environment, and exceptional seeing.

Brian



On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 12:29 PM ap@... <ap@...> wrote:
On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 01:39 PM, Brian Valente wrote:
I've put together tips and observations from our experiences doing this for about 3+ years now. 
 
Very helpful and interesting.

I am curious -- why Chile instead of some of the remote sites in the US, where the import/export issues, and probably shipping, would be easier.  Is the seeing that much better there, or is it the more accessible southern skies? 

Linwood



--

Bill Long
 

The logistics of getting a scope into Chile, paying all the import fees and VAT are pretty rough, but doing so can improve the resale value of the scope once it's there.

I live in Anti-Chile. Seeing not very great and the number of clear nights is the lowest. No access to Southern Hemisphere and in summer it never actually gets astro dark during the peak of the season.




From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Emilio J. Robau, P.E. <ejr@...>
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2023 12:32 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Tips for Implementing Remote Imaging in Chile
 
Lynwood,

I had the exact same question.  I do think that in Chile you have a veiw of the southern hemisphere skies and all the targets it presents.  I think the altitude is higher than the SW US spots and I think it is dryer also.  However, the logistics are very challanging.  

Andrew Arai
 

Brian,

Thank you for sharing your experiences. It has been very interesting to follow your imaging. When you recently showed a very impressive widefield image from your remote small Stellarvue refractor, I would never had guessed you had to deal with the lens shown in your document. It is very impressive what you can accomplish on the opposite side of the world.

Andrew  
Brian Valente
 

Thanks Andrew

My aim was only to say (as i've said before) it isn't all sugar and spice and everything nice when you have access to great skies... it has its own challenges for sure!




On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 6:07 PM Andrew Arai <andrewarai@...> wrote:
Brian,

Thank you for sharing your experiences. It has been very interesting to follow your imaging. When you recently showed a very impressive widefield image from your remote small Stellarvue refractor, I would never had guessed you had to deal with the lens shown in your document. It is very impressive what you can accomplish on the opposite side of the world.

Andrew  



--

Bill Long
 

Brian do they allow people to fly into Chile and travel on-site to assist with the installation? 


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Brian Valente <bvalente@...>
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2023 7:03 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Tips for Implementing Remote Imaging in Chile
 
Thanks Andrew

My aim was only to say (as i've said before) it isn't all sugar and spice and everything nice when you have access to great skies... it has its own challenges for sure!




On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 6:07 PM Andrew Arai <andrewarai@...> wrote:
Brian,

Thank you for sharing your experiences. It has been very interesting to follow your imaging. When you recently showed a very impressive widefield image from your remote small Stellarvue refractor, I would never had guessed you had to deal with the lens shown in your document. It is very impressive what you can accomplish on the opposite side of the world.

Andrew  



--

Brian Valente
 

>>>Brian do they allow people to fly into Chile and travel on-site to assist with the installation?

Yes. That was our original plan until Covid hit right as we were to travel there. We are now planning to visit in March

 In fact our roof mate Martin Pugh travels to Chile periodically to make adjustments to his mount, they don't touch his and he wants it that way ;)

His data acquisition is spectacular, he swears by his AO unit


On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 7:22 PM Bill Long <bill@...> wrote:
Brian do they allow people to fly into Chile and travel on-site to assist with the installation? 


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Brian Valente <bvalente@...>
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2023 7:03 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Tips for Implementing Remote Imaging in Chile
 
Thanks Andrew

My aim was only to say (as i've said before) it isn't all sugar and spice and everything nice when you have access to great skies... it has its own challenges for sure!




On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 6:07 PM Andrew Arai <andrewarai@...> wrote:
Brian,

Thank you for sharing your experiences. It has been very interesting to follow your imaging. When you recently showed a very impressive widefield image from your remote small Stellarvue refractor, I would never had guessed you had to deal with the lens shown in your document. It is very impressive what you can accomplish on the opposite side of the world.

Andrew  



--



--

Bill Long
 

Good to know. Mike Selby is at Obstech and I've had a number of good discussions with him over the years about remote imaging from Chile. He has said very good things about Obstech.

I'm in the final stages of moving one scope to New Mexico, but after that has run for a bit I'm sure to be considering Obstech next. I'd definitely want to fly in and soak in the experience.

Bill


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Brian Valente <bvalente@...>
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2023 7:29 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Tips for Implementing Remote Imaging in Chile
 
>>>Brian do they allow people to fly into Chile and travel on-site to assist with the installation?

Yes. That was our original plan until Covid hit right as we were to travel there. We are now planning to visit in March

 In fact our roof mate Martin Pugh travels to Chile periodically to make adjustments to his mount, they don't touch his and he wants it that way ;)

His data acquisition is spectacular, he swears by his AO unit

On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 7:22 PM Bill Long <bill@...> wrote:
Brian do they allow people to fly into Chile and travel on-site to assist with the installation? 


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Brian Valente <bvalente@...>
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2023 7:03 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Tips for Implementing Remote Imaging in Chile
 
Thanks Andrew

My aim was only to say (as i've said before) it isn't all sugar and spice and everything nice when you have access to great skies... it has its own challenges for sure!




On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 6:07 PM Andrew Arai <andrewarai@...> wrote:
Brian,

Thank you for sharing your experiences. It has been very interesting to follow your imaging. When you recently showed a very impressive widefield image from your remote small Stellarvue refractor, I would never had guessed you had to deal with the lens shown in your document. It is very impressive what you can accomplish on the opposite side of the world.

Andrew  



--



--

Brian Valente
 

Yeah Mike is killing it out there. Then again, who has their own 1 meter scope, along with a smattering of other scopes like 24" and doesn't he also have a DeltaRho 350? holy smokes



On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 8:00 PM Bill Long <bill@...> wrote:
Good to know. Mike Selby is at Obstech and I've had a number of good discussions with him over the years about remote imaging from Chile. He has said very good things about Obstech.

I'm in the final stages of moving one scope to New Mexico, but after that has run for a bit I'm sure to be considering Obstech next. I'd definitely want to fly in and soak in the experience.

Bill


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Brian Valente <bvalente@...>
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2023 7:29 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Tips for Implementing Remote Imaging in Chile
 
>>>Brian do they allow people to fly into Chile and travel on-site to assist with the installation?

Yes. That was our original plan until Covid hit right as we were to travel there. We are now planning to visit in March

 In fact our roof mate Martin Pugh travels to Chile periodically to make adjustments to his mount, they don't touch his and he wants it that way ;)

His data acquisition is spectacular, he swears by his AO unit

On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 7:22 PM Bill Long <bill@...> wrote:
Brian do they allow people to fly into Chile and travel on-site to assist with the installation? 


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Brian Valente <bvalente@...>
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2023 7:03 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Tips for Implementing Remote Imaging in Chile
 
Thanks Andrew

My aim was only to say (as i've said before) it isn't all sugar and spice and everything nice when you have access to great skies... it has its own challenges for sure!




On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 6:07 PM Andrew Arai <andrewarai@...> wrote:
Brian,

Thank you for sharing your experiences. It has been very interesting to follow your imaging. When you recently showed a very impressive widefield image from your remote small Stellarvue refractor, I would never had guessed you had to deal with the lens shown in your document. It is very impressive what you can accomplish on the opposite side of the world.

Andrew  



--



--



--

Bill Long
 

The data from that 1m scope is incredible. I did a test with some of it to see the difference BXT had on galaxies shot at super long FL. Let's say it looked like Hubble... 🤣

He does have a DR350, and few large 20" and 24" scopes. His collection has got to be the most mind-blowing of anyone. 

Someday.... 😁




From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Brian Valente <bvalente@...>
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2023 8:03 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Tips for Implementing Remote Imaging in Chile
 
Yeah Mike is killing it out there. Then again, who has their own 1 meter scope, along with a smattering of other scopes like 24" and doesn't he also have a DeltaRho 350? holy smokes



On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 8:00 PM Bill Long <bill@...> wrote:
Good to know. Mike Selby is at Obstech and I've had a number of good discussions with him over the years about remote imaging from Chile. He has said very good things about Obstech.

I'm in the final stages of moving one scope to New Mexico, but after that has run for a bit I'm sure to be considering Obstech next. I'd definitely want to fly in and soak in the experience.

Bill


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Brian Valente <bvalente@...>
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2023 7:29 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Tips for Implementing Remote Imaging in Chile
 
>>>Brian do they allow people to fly into Chile and travel on-site to assist with the installation?

Yes. That was our original plan until Covid hit right as we were to travel there. We are now planning to visit in March

 In fact our roof mate Martin Pugh travels to Chile periodically to make adjustments to his mount, they don't touch his and he wants it that way ;)

His data acquisition is spectacular, he swears by his AO unit

On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 7:22 PM Bill Long <bill@...> wrote:
Brian do they allow people to fly into Chile and travel on-site to assist with the installation? 


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Brian Valente <bvalente@...>
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2023 7:03 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Tips for Implementing Remote Imaging in Chile
 
Thanks Andrew

My aim was only to say (as i've said before) it isn't all sugar and spice and everything nice when you have access to great skies... it has its own challenges for sure!




On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 6:07 PM Andrew Arai <andrewarai@...> wrote:
Brian,

Thank you for sharing your experiences. It has been very interesting to follow your imaging. When you recently showed a very impressive widefield image from your remote small Stellarvue refractor, I would never had guessed you had to deal with the lens shown in your document. It is very impressive what you can accomplish on the opposite side of the world.

Andrew  



--



--



--

Chris White
 

Timely Brian, as I am in the process of putting together a setup to deploy to NM.  Thank you for putting your thoughts together on this.  I found it to be an informative read! 

One question I have been struggling with is a scope cap.  I have been looking at Flip Flat as well as Optec's dust cover.  I take sky-flats, so I dont need the illuminated panel, however that would be nice as a backup.  Since my camera does not have a shutter I will need something to be light tight for the end of the scope for taking bias/darks.  Do you have any suggestions about this?   Someone brought up a consideration with the Flip Flat that I don't know if it will be an issue or not.  Since there is a plexiglass cover it may let some stray light even if pressed tightly to the dew shield.  I dont have one so cant test this.  That makes me think that the dust cover might be better with a little weather sealing foam where it would meet the dew shield.

Regarding your dirty optics.  Roland mentioned to me that this can be a real problem for remote setups.  The grime can be very difficult to remove and can require extensive work to remove.  I assume that you have dew control here, so it cant be dew that causes this.  Is it just gunk in the air that builds up over time when you are using it so many days a year?  To prevent this from happening in the future do you have someone regularly clean your optics? 
dvjbaja
 

Chris, 

I use the Flip Flat on my FSQ based in Australia.  Operation has been flawless for years, and it keeps the dust out when stowed.  Bias and flats are taken on cloudy nights as it is not 100% light tight.  

Dust has not been a serious problem there.  We have dusted off the primary twice in 8 years and even that was minor.  

Cheers, 

jg
Emilio J. Robau, P.E.
 

I would add that my flip flap always has a gap, so Chris is correct in being concerned about that.  However, I do think that it is very easy to control this by the application of some sort of weather stripping and a more exact placement to minimize the potential for cracks.  This in conjunction with taking the darks and maybe flats if you are using NINA on a dark night might eliminate any issues.  I know a crack in the flats is not an issue, but the way NINA works it allows you to immediately take some matched flat darks so taking everything on a dark night would be best.  This is the way I do it at home.

I too am interested in a remote location, but it would be one that I visit myself from time to time with minimal man cave accommodations and other natural amenities along with some relative easy access to civilization.  Since I am a civil engineer with some pretty vast experience in the design and development of master planned communities and all that takes, my tastes are more aligned with getting some raw property and developing it.
Brian Valente
 

Hi Chris

No dew control, remember Chile is one of the driest places, although apparently not. Also fwiw I do have a flip flat on that refractor. 

I don't think there's a easy one-size-fits-all answer. From my experience, regular inspection and cleaning is the only reliable answer i've come up with. There are many truss reflectors at Obstech (like dozens) and very few if any have shutters. I would have never known the condition of the mirror/lens if I had not asked and they sent pics. I suspect it's more of an issue than is apparent



On Mon, Jan 23, 2023 at 4:17 AM Chris White <chris.white@...> wrote:
Timely Brian, as I am in the process of putting together a setup to deploy to NM.  Thank you for putting your thoughts together on this.  I found it to be an informative read! 

One question I have been struggling with is a scope cap.  I have been looking at Flip Flat as well as Optec's dust cover.  I take sky-flats, so I dont need the illuminated panel, however that would be nice as a backup.  Since my camera does not have a shutter I will need something to be light tight for the end of the scope for taking bias/darks.  Do you have any suggestions about this?   Someone brought up a consideration with the Flip Flat that I don't know if it will be an issue or not.  Since there is a plexiglass cover it may let some stray light even if pressed tightly to the dew shield.  I dont have one so cant test this.  That makes me think that the dust cover might be better with a little weather sealing foam where it would meet the dew shield.

Regarding your dirty optics.  Roland mentioned to me that this can be a real problem for remote setups.  The grime can be very difficult to remove and can require extensive work to remove.  I assume that you have dew control here, so it cant be dew that causes this.  Is it just gunk in the air that builds up over time when you are using it so many days a year?  To prevent this from happening in the future do you have someone regularly clean your optics? 



--

Chris White
 

On Mon, Jan 23, 2023 at 11:37 AM, Brian Valente wrote:
Hi Chris
 
No dew control, remember Chile is one of the driest places, although apparently not. Also fwiw I do have a flip flat on that refractor. 
I wonder if there was just enough dew over time to create that terrible scum you had.  Maybe a dew controller would have prevented that? 

Thanks to everyone on the flip flat comments.  I decided to go with the Alnitak Dust Cover instead.  Its cut to fit the scope and will be easy to install a weather strip in the event I cant get it perfectly light tight just by mounting carefully.  I prefer sky flats anyway...
Simon W
 

Very useful insights, Brian.  Particularly useful to me as I'm helping commission a remote hosting facility in South Africa  - thanks for sharing!
Simon
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