The perfect telescope mount


Roland Christen
 

Watched this and with my background in designing precision telescope mounts, I found this quite entertaining.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvRj9Bf2kHg

The thing most people underestimate is the precision needed to align things, and if they are made automatic, it becomes a nightmare of high precision sensors and actuators in order to do simple things like polar alignment. There is no smart phone, or software app that can tell you precisely down to a few arc seconds where the earth's pole actually is at any point on the map. But your eyeball looking thru a polar scope (or a small imaging camera) can do that in a second. You could theoretically send signals to a pair of motors to move the axes, but then you would basically be doubling the size of your mount to not only precisely control the RA and Dec, but also precisely control the Alt and Az axes. That takes another set of electronics, drivers, servo-motors, precision gear sets etc. You can't do this on the cheap and get it to be both stable enough to hold 60 - 100 lb of gear plus 60 lb of equatorial mount plunked on top, plus precise enough to aim the entire enchilada exactly to the pole (North or South).

But dreaming of a totally self leveling self polar aligning mount is fun, no? I saw such a beast, designed and built by a mechanical engineer, way back in the 1970's at Stellafane. The thing was mounted on a trailer, had umpteen hydraulic actuators that stabilized the trailer (lifted it off the wheels), and then automatically polar aligned the mount. It was a beast for sure, but fun to watch it work. Did it track well enough to do serious imaging with today's cameras and scopes? Hell no! None of the mounts back then could do that without someone sitting at a crosshair eyepiece and pushing NSEW buttons for hours (or until your eyeballs glazed over).

Rolando

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Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


dvjbaja
 

Just buy the Unistellar EV scope and be done with it.  ;-)  


On Sat, Sep 11, 2021 at 5:02 PM Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Watched this and with my background in designing precision telescope mounts, I found this quite entertaining.


The thing most people underestimate is the precision needed to align things, and if they are made automatic, it becomes a nightmare of high precision sensors and actuators in order to do simple things like polar alignment. There is no smart phone, or software app that can tell you precisely down to a few arc seconds where the earth's pole actually is at any point on the map. But your eyeball looking thru a polar scope (or a small imaging camera) can do that in a second. You could theoretically send signals to a pair of motors to move the axes, but then you would basically be doubling the size of your mount to not only precisely control the RA and Dec, but also precisely control the Alt and Az axes. That takes another set of electronics, drivers, servo-motors, precision gear sets etc. You can't do this on the cheap and get it to be both stable enough to hold 60 - 100 lb of gear plus 60 lb of equatorial mount plunked on top, plus precise enough to aim the entire enchilada exactly to the pole (North or South).

But dreaming of a totally self leveling self polar aligning mount is fun, no? I saw such a beast, designed and built by a mechanical engineer, way back in the 1970's at Stellafane. The thing was mounted on a trailer, had umpteen hydraulic actuators that stabilized the trailer (lifted it off the wheels), and then automatically polar aligned the mount. It was a beast for sure, but fun to watch it work. Did it track well enough to do serious imaging with today's cameras and scopes? Hell no! None of the mounts back then could do that without someone sitting at a crosshair eyepiece and pushing NSEW buttons for hours (or until your eyeballs glazed over).

Rolando

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Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Christopher M
 

Even with all of that technology, there would still be many people who wouldn't open the manual to figure out how to unpack it (such as my brother).  


Richard O'Neill <syzygy42@earthlink.net> <syzygy42@...>
 

Hello Rolando,

   I attended Stellafane during that decade and saw something like you describe. From a stowed position for travel to fully setup, going through the motions it reminded me of a Transforming Bot. If memory serves, didn't that hydraulic actuated mount also have a telescope on it? If we're thinking of the same mount I think I might have a color slide of it, which I'll scan and post if I can locate it.

Richard


Thomas Giannaccini
 

I’m going to chime in on this one…

I know it’s just a joke and honestly I chuckled, but…

It’s a proven fact that there are different methods by which people learn the best. Undiagnosed learning disorders are very common. We probably know this; so what?

Videos. Especially the basics and common issues. Does NOT have to be cinematic quality. A GoPro and a mic. Covers visual and auditory learners. Quick verbal references to page numbers in the manual covers the readers in the group.

I see how much time is being spent on trouble shooting and I wonder if some of that might be addressed by simply being able to watch a video. It’s one thing to read it, it’s a whole different universe to watch it. Also, it’s much easier to verbally mention extra information and corollaries rather than type out all that text.

Just some food for thought for the group; something I’ve been wanting to suggest and this seemed like a decent opportunity. I’m sure there’s an AV student somewhere who would love the experience.

Best,

Tom




On Sun, Sep 12, 2021 at 7:56 AM Christopher M <mirfak@...> wrote:
Even with all of that technology, there would still be many people who wouldn't open the manual to figure out how to unpack it (such as my brother).  


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CN: HasAnyoneSeenMyNeblua


jimwc@...
 

brings to mind a old saying " a picture is worth a thousand words"
Jim


Roland Christen
 

Yes, I believe that's the one I saw. It did have a Newtonian on it, I think. Great if you have a pix.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard O'Neill <syzygy42@...> <syzygy42@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Sun, Sep 12, 2021 8:59 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] The perfect telescope mount

Hello Rolando,

   I attended Stellafane during that decade and saw something like you describe. From a stowed position for travel to fully setup, going through the motions it reminded me of a Transforming Bot. If memory serves, didn't that hydraulic actuated mount also have a telescope on it? If we're thinking of the same mount I think I might have a color slide of it, which I'll scan and post if I can locate it.

Richard

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Roland Christen
 

You have some good suggestions.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas Giannaccini <tgiann3@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Sun, Sep 12, 2021 10:49 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] The perfect telescope mount

I’m going to chime in on this one…

I know it’s just a joke and honestly I chuckled, but…

It’s a proven fact that there are different methods by which people learn the best. Undiagnosed learning disorders are very common. We probably know this; so what?

Videos. Especially the basics and common issues. Does NOT have to be cinematic quality. A GoPro and a mic. Covers visual and auditory learners. Quick verbal references to page numbers in the manual covers the readers in the group.

I see how much time is being spent on trouble shooting and I wonder if some of that might be addressed by simply being able to watch a video. It’s one thing to read it, it’s a whole different universe to watch it. Also, it’s much easier to verbally mention extra information and corollaries rather than type out all that text.

Just some food for thought for the group; something I’ve been wanting to suggest and this seemed like a decent opportunity. I’m sure there’s an AV student somewhere who would love the experience.

Best,

Tom




On Sun, Sep 12, 2021 at 7:56 AM Christopher M <mirfak@...> wrote:
Even with all of that technology, there would still be many people who wouldn't open the manual to figure out how to unpack it (such as my brother).  

--
CN: HasAnyoneSeenMyNeblua

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics