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Ramblings on goto (Hit delete key now<g>)

Jeffrey D. Gortatowsky
 

(LOL!)

Ah yes, the question of questions! How many times has this been beaten to
death on the net since the LX200 coffee grinders appeared? (Until two weeks
ago I owned an original version 2.42 747 object 20cm LX200.)

"Why did I pay $3600 for a GOTO mount for visual observing?"

Because it's the finest of its kind, period. (Congrats Roland and Marge!)
The same reason I own a 130EDT f/8. (With all due respects to the Tak FCT125
which is just as good <some say better, but that's a different
group/topic>). Hey, if you stick GOTO on a G11 it's comes out to around
$4000. No difference. And I think you'd STILL be fighting orthogonality. Now
that I understand the problem better, I understand it's something you have
to deal with once and get it over with. That is if you must deal with it at
all. Then leave that ring/plate combo assembled. To that end, AP could, for
there scopes _only_, rings, and plates, provide shims.

Friday night I inserted a 'Terminagler' (Derek you crack me up!) into the
maxbright and messed up the GOTO alignment on the 400GTO/130EDT combo when
it swung off balance in declination. My fault as I forgot you can't really
lock the axis' on a GTO like a Losmandy. Balance is everything!<g> Know
what? I said, p**s on it, I just want to observe! So I starhopped the rest
of the night. Starhopped all weekend with my 45cm dob as well. No GOTO
there! (not a starmaster)

The 400GTO mount is very very cool. Solid as a rock and tracks very well.
But I understand completely the original poster's point. When guests are
around it's much easier to GOTO. After all, they are not into 'the hunt'.
The guests just want to sip cappacino and observe some interesting objects.
Who could blame them? I am dismayed the poster's 130EDFS is not orthogonal.
In an all AP setup it should not be a problem. If mine is off, it's less
than 3 arc-minutes. When I had the scope slew from zeta herculis to alpha
CorB, the latter was in the FOV which was 6 arc minutes. The terminagler's
FOV is 2+ degrees! Maybe I am just lucky.

I too want to image someday. 'Prolly about the time Marge or Christine calls
and says, "Wouldn't a Traveler 105 look just spiffy on your 400GTO?" <g>
(Marge, Christine, if your out there, anytime you want to make that call it
is okey-dokey with me! LOL!)

Know why I want to image someday? THE HUNT<g>! Same reason starhopping is
fun! Honest. Making a bad image is easy! Making a good one takes
professionalism, knowledge, dedication, great equipment, great software, and
some _luck_. Many of the same qualities used in observing fine detail on a
planet.<g>

Clear skies,
Jeff



PS: "Shameless greedy plug follows:" As someone who is on the 600EGTO and
900GTO waiting list I could be persuaded to buy one used if someone is
selling. <vbg>
Ron Wodaski <ronw@...>
 

I've now used a Takahashi NJP-160 as well as AP 400 and 600 mounts, and the
only issue I can see around orthogonality is that you will have a much
easier time with the GOTO's polar alignment routine if you have
orthogonality.

If you polar align any mount with a bore scope instead, from what I can see,
orthogonality isn't much of an issue. I have digital setting circles on the
NJP, and without paying the slightest attention to orthogonality, I put
objects on the chip every time.

On the other hand, when trying to polar align my AP GTO mounts with the aid
of the hand controller, anything non-orthogonal turns into a real demon. <g>
Mirror flop makes polar alignment virtually impossible. I had one set of
rings/dovetail that were set just about completely orthogonal, and that set
was easy to use. Anything else was trouble.

So my thinking is pretty simple on this: if you want to do
hand-controller-aided polar aligning, you'll have to pay the price to create
or confirm orthogonality. I think that that unavailability of the AP bore
scopes played into this problem.

Ron Wodaski
http://www.newastro.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeffrey D. Gortatowsky [mailto:myrocketcatos@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2000 8:44 AM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: [ap-gto] Ramblings on goto (Hit delete key now<g>)


(LOL!)

Ah yes, the question of questions! How many times has this been beaten to
death on the net since the LX200 coffee grinders appeared? (Until two weeks
ago I owned an original version 2.42 747 object 20cm LX200.)

"Why did I pay $3600 for a GOTO mount for visual observing?"

Because it's the finest of its kind, period. (Congrats Roland and Marge!)
The same reason I own a 130EDT f/8. (With all due respects to the Tak FCT125
which is just as good <some say better, but that's a different
group/topic>). Hey, if you stick GOTO on a G11 it's comes out to around
$4000. No difference. And I think you'd STILL be fighting orthogonality. Now
that I understand the problem better, I understand it's something you have
to deal with once and get it over with. That is if you must deal with it at
all. Then leave that ring/plate combo assembled. To that end, AP could, for
there scopes _only_, rings, and plates, provide shims.

Friday night I inserted a 'Terminagler' (Derek you crack me up!) into the
maxbright and messed up the GOTO alignment on the 400GTO/130EDT combo when
it swung off balance in declination. My fault as I forgot you can't really
lock the axis' on a GTO like a Losmandy. Balance is everything!<g> Know
what? I said, p**s on it, I just want to observe! So I starhopped the rest
of the night. Starhopped all weekend with my 45cm dob as well. No GOTO
there! (not a starmaster)

The 400GTO mount is very very cool. Solid as a rock and tracks very well.
But I understand completely the original poster's point. When guests are
around it's much easier to GOTO. After all, they are not into 'the hunt'.
The guests just want to sip cappacino and observe some interesting objects.
Who could blame them? I am dismayed the poster's 130EDFS is not orthogonal.
In an all AP setup it should not be a problem. If mine is off, it's less
than 3 arc-minutes. When I had the scope slew from zeta herculis to alpha
CorB, the latter was in the FOV which was 6 arc minutes. The terminagler's
FOV is 2+ degrees! Maybe I am just lucky.

I too want to image someday. 'Prolly about the time Marge or Christine calls
and says, "Wouldn't a Traveler 105 look just spiffy on your 400GTO?" <g>
(Marge, Christine, if your out there, anytime you want to make that call it
is okey-dokey with me! LOL!)

Know why I want to image someday? THE HUNT<g>! Same reason starhopping is
fun! Honest. Making a bad image is easy! Making a good one takes
professionalism, knowledge, dedication, great equipment, great software, and
some _luck_. Many of the same qualities used in observing fine detail on a
planet.<g>

Clear skies,
Jeff



PS: "Shameless greedy plug follows:" As someone who is on the 600EGTO and
900GTO waiting list I could be persuaded to buy one used if someone is
selling. <vbg>



------------------------------------------------------------------------
Where do sports heroes like Derek Jeter, Mia Hamm,
Vince Carter and Peyton Manning hang out? Where else?
Click now and find em all here!
http://click.egroups.com/1/6211/7/_/3615/_/962898102/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ron Wodaski <ronw@...>
 

I've already cast my vote in favor of a more sophisticated hand
controller/goto unit for the AP scopes. <g>

I agree that more sophisticated software would solve many of these problems.
For the time being, all I'm saying is that if you want to enjoy the benefits
of polar alignment using your scope, that scope needs to be lined up
parallel to the RA axis. Otherwise, polar alignment takes a long time,
involves guesswork, and you would be better off with a bore scope for polar
alignment. IMO.

Ron Wodaski
http://www.newastro.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Leikind [mailto:sleikind@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2000 9:56 AM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Ramblings on goto (Hit delete key now<g>)


Ron,

Not so if your hand-controller happens to be that of a Meade LX-200.
High precision pointing (HPP) provides a quick workaround to non-
orthogonality and other pointing problems. When HPP is turned on,
and you GOTO a target, the scope slews instead, to the nearest bright
star to your target. You then center the star with N-S-E-W, in your
telescope, or CCD chip, press GOTO and land your target on a CCD chip
every time. No need to identify a suitable nearby bright star in a
star altas and recalibrate manually as you must do with AP GOTO. The
Meade software does it all for you. This doesn't seem that
complicated. Wish AP and other manufacturers of GOTO and DSC
products would incorporate HPP or its equivalent in their software.

-Steve


--- In ap-gto@..., "Ron Wodaski" <ronw@n...> wrote:

So my thinking is pretty simple on this: if you want to do
hand-controller-aided polar aligning, you'll have to pay the price
to create
or confirm orthogonality. I think that that unavailability of the
AP bore
scopes played into this problem.

Ron Wodaski
http://www.newastro.com


------------------------------------------------------------------------
Where do sports heroes like Derek Jeter, Mia Hamm,
Vince Carter and Peyton Manning hang out? Where else?
Click now and find em all here!
http://click.egroups.com/1/6211/7/_/3615/_/962902569/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chuck Hancock
 

jeff-
Well put.

"Jeffrey D. Gortatowsky" wrote:


(LOL!)

Ah yes, the question of questions! How many times has this been beaten to
death on the net since the LX200 coffee grinders appeared? (Until two weeks
ago I owned an original version 2.42 747 object 20cm LX200.)

"Why did I pay $3600 for a GOTO mount for visual observing?"

Because it's the finest of its kind, period. (Congrats Roland and Marge!)
The same reason I own a 130EDT f/8. (With all due respects to the Tak FCT125
which is just as good <some say better, but that's a different
group/topic>). Hey, if you stick GOTO on a G11 it's comes out to around
$4000. No difference. And I think you'd STILL be fighting orthogonality. Now
that I understand the problem better, I understand it's something you have
to deal with once and get it over with. That is if you must deal with it at
all. Then leave that ring/plate combo assembled. To that end, AP could, for
there scopes _only_, rings, and plates, provide shims.

Friday night I inserted a 'Terminagler' (Derek you crack me up!) into the
maxbright and messed up the GOTO alignment on the 400GTO/130EDT combo when
it swung off balance in declination. My fault as I forgot you can't really
lock the axis' on a GTO like a Losmandy. Balance is everything!<g> Know
what? I said, p**s on it, I just want to observe! So I starhopped the rest
of the night. Starhopped all weekend with my 45cm dob as well. No GOTO
there! (not a starmaster)

The 400GTO mount is very very cool. Solid as a rock and tracks very well.
But I understand completely the original poster's point. When guests are
around it's much easier to GOTO. After all, they are not into 'the hunt'.
The guests just want to sip cappacino and observe some interesting objects.
Who could blame them? I am dismayed the poster's 130EDFS is not orthogonal.
In an all AP setup it should not be a problem. If mine is off, it's less
than 3 arc-minutes. When I had the scope slew from zeta herculis to alpha
CorB, the latter was in the FOV which was 6 arc minutes. The terminagler's
FOV is 2+ degrees! Maybe I am just lucky.

I too want to image someday. 'Prolly about the time Marge or Christine calls
and says, "Wouldn't a Traveler 105 look just spiffy on your 400GTO?" <g>
(Marge, Christine, if your out there, anytime you want to make that call it
is okey-dokey with me! LOL!)

Know why I want to image someday? THE HUNT<g>! Same reason starhopping is
fun! Honest. Making a bad image is easy! Making a good one takes
professionalism, knowledge, dedication, great equipment, great software, and
some _luck_. Many of the same qualities used in observing fine detail on a
planet.<g>

Clear skies,
Jeff

PS: "Shameless greedy plug follows:" As someone who is on the 600EGTO and
900GTO waiting list I could be persuaded to buy one used if someone is
selling. <vbg>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Where do sports heroes like Derek Jeter, Mia Hamm,
Vince Carter and Peyton Manning hang out? Where else?
Click now and find em all here!
http://click.egroups.com/1/6211/7/_/3615/_/962898102/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Best regards,
Chuck Hancock

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