RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO


nicholas
 

I would like to know from other owners of AP mounts if you are fully loaded and you grip the counter shaft and use a small amount though distinctive force through the DEC axis will you  notice any discernable movement of the RA structure? I do, when it is fully loaded. It is a small a amount, maybe 1/8 MM or less. but that movement is discernable. 

 

Thank you!


Bill Long
 


No. Read that, do that if your heart so desires. Note the serial number info on it. 

I will repeat what I said to you on CN though, that this is the least of your concerns. I would read through what people already spent much of their time typing and sharing with you before you go mucking with things like this, that are irrelevant at this stage for you and your mount. 

The Mach 1 is the superior user at this point. You need to tip that scale before you go and mess with it. I mean this with no offense, but honestly it is getting old telling you the same things over and over and over, and you pay zero attention to them and go find some shiny other thing that captures your interest. If you want peoples honest advice, you should read, consume, and internalize the things that have already been shared with you -- that you have largely ignored.

-Bill 



From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of nicholas via groups.io <chironik@...>
Sent: Saturday, October 2, 2021 8:03 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: [ap-gto] RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO
 

I would like to know from other owners of AP mounts if you are fully loaded and you grip the counter shaft and use a small amount though distinctive force through the DEC axis will you  notice any discernable movement of the RA structure? I do, when it is fully loaded. It is a small a amount, maybe 1/8 MM or less. but that movement is discernable. 

 

Thank you!


Roland Christen
 

Hello Nicholas,

I think in your case the first order of business to get your mount up to snuff is to take a 15 to 20 minute run in PHD2 and get a screen shot of the guider graph. Use 2 second exposures on the guide star. You want to turn off the guide corrections and just let the mount track and record the tracking graph for RA and Dec. Make sure that you have turned off PEM for this initial test because we want to see what your mount baseline tracking is. The Dec portion of the graph will let use determine what portion of the tracking noise is atmospheric (seeing) induced.

One very easy way to do this is to use the Guiding Assistant in PHD2. Set it to run for at least 15 to 20 minutes so that you capture 2 to 3 worm cycles. You want to point your scope to roughly 0 Declination near the meridian (either side is fine). Once you get this unguided tracking graph, I can determine the health of the RA axis and the basic mount and maybe suggest some things you might try to make the mount perform better.

For the Dec axis, the best way to determine the health of that axis would be to run the backlash test and post the graph. For now, do not make any adjustments to the mount until we can see these baseline data points.

Can you do these test for me so I can help you get the most out of your new-to-you mount?

Roland Christen
Astro-Physics Inc.


-----Original Message-----
From: nicholas via groups.io <chironik@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Sat, Oct 2, 2021 10:03 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO

I would like to know from other owners of AP mounts if you are fully loaded and you grip the counter shaft and use a small amount though distinctive force through the DEC axis will you  notice any discernable movement of the RA structure? I do, when it is fully loaded. It is a small a amount, maybe 1/8 MM or less. but that movement is discernable. 
 

Thank you!

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


nicholas
 

Thank you Roland.


nicholas
 

yes I can absolutely do these. It is supposed to be clear tomorrow night. 


nicholas
 
Edited

Hello Mr. Christen.

Firstly I want to express my sincere gratitude for offering to evaluate my Phd2 log data in light of how busy you must already be.   I am not convinced that any issues are not operational efficiency, for example, I likely could improve on my guide-scope/ guide cam structure to make it more solid. On the saddle was a 152mm F8 refractor triplet with a few LBS of imaging related equipment.

Attached is Phd2 log from last night. @ 23:48 I began a recalibration, then I proceeded with the guide assist on after having slewed from the handbox from Park 3 to NGC 7541.
Thank you!

https://openphdguidi...2_logs_Yrrd.zip


Roland Christen
 

Guide logs are great for Geeks that like to wade thru long log files. I'm not one of them.

In order to evaluate the health of your mount I would like to see the following done as I asked before: a simple guide graph screen shot.

1) Take a 15 - 20 minute guide graph with guide exposure set to 1 second on a reasonably right star (forget multi-star guiding, it's not important for this mount health test)
2) for the entirety of the test have guide corrections turned OFF

Easiest way to turn off guide corrections is to set MinMove to 20.0 for both axes. Another way is to go into your guide setup and uncheck the guide corrections box for RA and Dec.

The screen shot should show both the drift of both axes as well as the shape of the RA periodic error for the entire 15 - 20 minute period. It will be a clean image of only the mount with none of the interference of any outside software.

Once I get that screen shot from you I can evaluate the state of the mount, whether the bearings are smooth or not and lots of other things that may or may not need some care or adjustment. Until i see that, we cannot do much here but watch and wait. I have only a few more days here at AP, after which I will be gone on an extended trip and won't be able to advise you until I get back the first week of November.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: nicholas via groups.io <chironik@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Mon, Oct 11, 2021 2:24 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO

Hello Mr. Christen.

Firstly I want to express my sincere gratitude for offering to evaluate my Phd2 log data in light of how busy you must already be.   I am not convinced that any issues are not operational efficiency, for example, I likely could improve on my guide-scope/ guide cam structure to make it more solid. On the saddle was a 152mm F8 refractor triplet with a few LBS of imaging related equipment.

Attached is Phd2 log from last night. @ 23:48 I began a recalibration, then I proceeded with the guide assist on after having skewed from the handbox from Park 3 to NGC 7541.
Thank you!

https://openphdguidi...2_logs_Yrrd.zip

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


 

Here's the picture from those logs - unguided output with 2 second exposures, approx 20 minutes total time



image.png

On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 12:59 PM Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Guide logs are great for Geeks that like to wade thru long log files. I'm not one of them.

In order to evaluate the health of your mount I would like to see the following done as I asked before: a simple guide graph screen shot.

1) Take a 15 - 20 minute guide graph with guide exposure set to 1 second on a reasonably right star (forget multi-star guiding, it's not important for this mount health test)
2) for the entirety of the test have guide corrections turned OFF

Easiest way to turn off guide corrections is to set MinMove to 20.0 for both axes. Another way is to go into your guide setup and uncheck the guide corrections box for RA and Dec.

The screen shot should show both the drift of both axes as well as the shape of the RA periodic error for the entire 15 - 20 minute period. It will be a clean image of only the mount with none of the interference of any outside software.

Once I get that screen shot from you I can evaluate the state of the mount, whether the bearings are smooth or not and lots of other things that may or may not need some care or adjustment. Until i see that, we cannot do much here but watch and wait. I have only a few more days here at AP, after which I will be gone on an extended trip and won't be able to advise you until I get back the first week of November.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: nicholas via groups.io <chironik=yahoo.com@groups.io>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Mon, Oct 11, 2021 2:24 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO

Hello Mr. Christen.

Firstly I want to express my sincere gratitude for offering to evaluate my Phd2 log data in light of how busy you must already be.   I am not convinced that any issues are not operational efficiency, for example, I likely could improve on my guide-scope/ guide cam structure to make it more solid. On the saddle was a 152mm F8 refractor triplet with a few LBS of imaging related equipment.

Attached is Phd2 log from last night. @ 23:48 I began a recalibration, then I proceeded with the guide assist on after having skewed from the handbox from Park 3 to NGC 7541.
Thank you!

https://openphdguidi...2_logs_Yrrd.zip

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics



--
Brian 



Brian Valente


Roland Christen
 

I'm afraid that is useless data.

Guide graphs ideally should be taken thru the main scope on ONE reasonably bright star at or near the celestial equator, at or near the meridian (either side will do). One star, not multi-star tracking!

What he captured here appears to be a mix of hot pixel tracking along with some periods of actual multi-star tracking.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Valente <bvalente@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Mon, Oct 11, 2021 3:14 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO

Here's the picture from those logs - unguided output with 2 second exposures, approx 20 minutes total time



image.png

On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 12:59 PM Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Guide logs are great for Geeks that like to wade thru long log files. I'm not one of them.

In order to evaluate the health of your mount I would like to see the following done as I asked before: a simple guide graph screen shot.

1) Take a 15 - 20 minute guide graph with guide exposure set to 1 second on a reasonably right star (forget multi-star guiding, it's not important for this mount health test)
2) for the entirety of the test have guide corrections turned OFF

Easiest way to turn off guide corrections is to set MinMove to 20.0 for both axes. Another way is to go into your guide setup and uncheck the guide corrections box for RA and Dec.

The screen shot should show both the drift of both axes as well as the shape of the RA periodic error for the entire 15 - 20 minute period. It will be a clean image of only the mount with none of the interference of any outside software.

Once I get that screen shot from you I can evaluate the state of the mount, whether the bearings are smooth or not and lots of other things that may or may not need some care or adjustment. Until i see that, we cannot do much here but watch and wait. I have only a few more days here at AP, after which I will be gone on an extended trip and won't be able to advise you until I get back the first week of November.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: nicholas via groups.io <chironik=yahoo.com@groups.io>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Mon, Oct 11, 2021 2:24 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO

Hello Mr. Christen.

Firstly I want to express my sincere gratitude for offering to evaluate my Phd2 log data in light of how busy you must already be.   I am not convinced that any issues are not operational efficiency, for example, I likely could improve on my guide-scope/ guide cam structure to make it more solid. On the saddle was a 152mm F8 refractor triplet with a few LBS of imaging related equipment.

Attached is Phd2 log from last night. @ 23:48 I began a recalibration, then I proceeded with the guide assist on after having skewed from the handbox from Park 3 to NGC 7541.
Thank you!

https://openphdguidi...2_logs_Yrrd.zip

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


--
Brian 



Brian Valente

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


 
Edited

I found an earlier run that looks better - and by "better" i mean relatively better than previous. At least this one kind of makes some sense:
 
image.png
image.png
 
The previous run was unguided data
 
There were significant number of failed calibration attempts
 
Not sure what's going on with the previous graph and so many difficulties with calibration. It may be that you have a cable or connection loose somewhere
 
 

On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 1:30 PM Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
I'm afraid that is useless data.
 
Guide graphs ideally should be taken thru the main scope on ONE reasonably bright star at or near the celestial equator, at or near the meridian (either side will do). One star, not multi-star tracking!
 
What he captured here appears to be a mix of hot pixel tracking along with some periods of actual multi-star tracking.
 
Rolando
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Valente <bvalente@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Mon, Oct 11, 2021 3:14 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO

Here's the picture from those logs - unguided output with 2 second exposures, approx 20 minutes total time
 

 

On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 12:59 PM Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Guide logs are great for Geeks that like to wade thru long log files. I'm not one of them.
 
In order to evaluate the health of your mount I would like to see the following done as I asked before: a simple guide graph screen shot.
 
1) Take a 15 - 20 minute guide graph with guide exposure set to 1 second on a reasonably right star (forget multi-star guiding, it's not important for this mount health test)
2) for the entirety of the test have guide corrections turned OFF
 
Easiest way to turn off guide corrections is to set MinMove to 20.0 for both axes. Another way is to go into your guide setup and uncheck the guide corrections box for RA and Dec.
 
The screen shot should show both the drift of both axes as well as the shape of the RA periodic error for the entire 15 - 20 minute period. It will be a clean image of only the mount with none of the interference of any outside software.
 
Once I get that screen shot from you I can evaluate the state of the mount, whether the bearings are smooth or not and lots of other things that may or may not need some care or adjustment. Until i see that, we cannot do much here but watch and wait. I have only a few more days here at AP, after which I will be gone on an extended trip and won't be able to advise you until I get back the first week of November.
 
Rolando
 
-----Original Message-----
From: nicholas via groups.io <chironik=yahoo.com@groups.io>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Mon, Oct 11, 2021 2:24 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO

Hello Mr. Christen.

Firstly I want to express my sincere gratitude for offering to evaluate my Phd2 log data in light of how busy you must already be.   I am not convinced that any issues are not operational efficiency, for example, I likely could improve on my guide-scope/ guide cam structure to make it more solid. On the saddle was a 152mm F8 refractor triplet with a few LBS of imaging related equipment.

Attached is Phd2 log from last night. @ 23:48 I began a recalibration, then I proceeded with the guide assist on after having skewed from the handbox from Park 3 to NGC 7541.
Thank you!

https://openphdguidi...2_logs_Yrrd.zip

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics
 
 

 
--
Brian 
 
 
 
Brian Valente

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics

 

 


 
--
Brian 
 
 
 
Brian Valente


steve.winston@...
 

Brian, unfortunately that run was also likely bad (using bad calibration data from a previous calibration run)


 

it's possible though this run reported no prior calibration issues - the calibration data prior to this wasn't in this guidelog. It looks like maybe the guidescope slipped and/or was rotated

when the calibrations are successful they look spot on, but many are 

image.png



On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 1:40 PM <steve.winston@...> wrote:
Brian, unfortunately that run was also likely bad (using bad calibration data from a previous calibration run)



--
Brian 



Brian Valente


steve.winston@...
 

Yep, it looks like the guide cam was rotated since the previous calibration run and prior to running the second GA session you posted the screencap of.


Roland Christen
 

That one is no better. Unfortunately it is cross contaminated. The RA should show the PE and the Dec should show only drift with no PE. It appears that the calibration is off by 45 degrees.

It may not even be calibrated at the celestial equator, so it's not going to be accurate for RA.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Valente <bvalente@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Mon, Oct 11, 2021 3:36 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO

I found an earlier run that looks better:

image.png
image.png

The previous run was unguided data

There were significant number of failed calibration attempts

Not sure what's going on with the previous graph and so many difficulties with calibration. It may be that you have a cable or connection loose somewhere



On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 1:30 PM Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
I'm afraid that is useless data.

Guide graphs ideally should be taken thru the main scope on ONE reasonably bright star at or near the celestial equator, at or near the meridian (either side will do). One star, not multi-star tracking!

What he captured here appears to be a mix of hot pixel tracking along with some periods of actual multi-star tracking.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Valente <bvalente@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Mon, Oct 11, 2021 3:14 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO

Here's the picture from those logs - unguided output with 2 second exposures, approx 20 minutes total time



image.png

On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 12:59 PM Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Guide logs are great for Geeks that like to wade thru long log files. I'm not one of them.

In order to evaluate the health of your mount I would like to see the following done as I asked before: a simple guide graph screen shot.

1) Take a 15 - 20 minute guide graph with guide exposure set to 1 second on a reasonably right star (forget multi-star guiding, it's not important for this mount health test)
2) for the entirety of the test have guide corrections turned OFF

Easiest way to turn off guide corrections is to set MinMove to 20.0 for both axes. Another way is to go into your guide setup and uncheck the guide corrections box for RA and Dec.

The screen shot should show both the drift of both axes as well as the shape of the RA periodic error for the entire 15 - 20 minute period. It will be a clean image of only the mount with none of the interference of any outside software.

Once I get that screen shot from you I can evaluate the state of the mount, whether the bearings are smooth or not and lots of other things that may or may not need some care or adjustment. Until i see that, we cannot do much here but watch and wait. I have only a few more days here at AP, after which I will be gone on an extended trip and won't be able to advise you until I get back the first week of November.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: nicholas via groups.io <chironik=yahoo.com@groups.io>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Mon, Oct 11, 2021 2:24 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO

Hello Mr. Christen.

Firstly I want to express my sincere gratitude for offering to evaluate my Phd2 log data in light of how busy you must already be.   I am not convinced that any issues are not operational efficiency, for example, I likely could improve on my guide-scope/ guide cam structure to make it more solid. On the saddle was a 152mm F8 refractor triplet with a few LBS of imaging related equipment.

Attached is Phd2 log from last night. @ 23:48 I began a recalibration, then I proceeded with the guide assist on after having skewed from the handbox from Park 3 to NGC 7541.
Thank you!

https://openphdguidi...2_logs_Yrrd.zip

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


--
Brian 



Brian Valente

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


--
Brian 



Brian Valente

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


W Hilmo
 

Hi Nicholas,

I just took a look at the weather for the San Diego area, and it looks like the next 5 or 6 nights will be good for doing this test.

Here is my suggestion:

Set up with either of your refractors.  Configure PHD2 to use your main camera through the refractor and make sure that it is set for single star guiding (the "use multiple stars" checkbox must be unchecked).  Set the exposure time to 1 second.  Point the scope at the star Alshain in the constellation Aquila.  It's about 6 degrees north of the celestial equator and is a very easy to find, naked eye star that is a bit south of Altair.  For that matter, Altair itself is only about 8.5 degrees from the celestial equator, but is so bright that 1 second exposures will probably saturate it.  In a pinch, you could try Altair instead, but I prefer non-saturated stars, so you'd need an even shorter guide exposure.

Once you have Alshain centered in the field of view, click on it in PHD2 and then hold the shift key down on your keyboard and click the "start tracking" icon.  This will force a calibration.  Once the calibration is complete, stop guiding and set MnMo to 20.00 (you will need to set it in two places, one for each axis).  Click the "clear" button on the graph and then click the "start tracking" icon (without holding the shift key down).  This will start tracking and begin building the graph that Roland wants to see.

Let it run for 20 minutes.

I believe that this will get you the information that Roland needs to see.

I hope that this helps,
-Wade (wadeh237 from Cloudy Nights)



On 10/11/21 1:49 PM, Roland Christen via groups.io wrote:
That one is no better. Unfortunately it is cross contaminated. The RA should show the PE and the Dec should show only drift with no PE. It appears that the calibration is off by 45 degrees.

It may not even be calibrated at the celestial equator, so it's not going to be accurate for RA.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Valente <bvalente@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Mon, Oct 11, 2021 3:36 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO

I found an earlier run that looks better:




The previous run was unguided data

There were significant number of failed calibration attempts

Not sure what's going on with the previous graph and so many difficulties with calibration. It may be that you have a cable or connection loose somewhere



On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 1:30 PM Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
I'm afraid that is useless data.

Guide graphs ideally should be taken thru the main scope on ONE reasonably bright star at or near the celestial equator, at or near the meridian (either side will do). One star, not multi-star tracking!

What he captured here appears to be a mix of hot pixel tracking along with some periods of actual multi-star tracking.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Valente <bvalente@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Mon, Oct 11, 2021 3:14 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO

Here's the picture from those logs - unguided output with 2 second exposures, approx 20 minutes total time





On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 12:59 PM Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Guide logs are great for Geeks that like to wade thru long log files. I'm not one of them.

In order to evaluate the health of your mount I would like to see the following done as I asked before: a simple guide graph screen shot.

1) Take a 15 - 20 minute guide graph with guide exposure set to 1 second on a reasonably right star (forget multi-star guiding, it's not important for this mount health test)
2) for the entirety of the test have guide corrections turned OFF

Easiest way to turn off guide corrections is to set MinMove to 20.0 for both axes. Another way is to go into your guide setup and uncheck the guide corrections box for RA and Dec.

The screen shot should show both the drift of both axes as well as the shape of the RA periodic error for the entire 15 - 20 minute period. It will be a clean image of only the mount with none of the interference of any outside software.

Once I get that screen shot from you I can evaluate the state of the mount, whether the bearings are smooth or not and lots of other things that may or may not need some care or adjustment. Until i see that, we cannot do much here but watch and wait. I have only a few more days here at AP, after which I will be gone on an extended trip and won't be able to advise you until I get back the first week of November.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: nicholas via groups.io <chironik=yahoo.com@groups.io>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Mon, Oct 11, 2021 2:24 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO

Hello Mr. Christen.

Firstly I want to express my sincere gratitude for offering to evaluate my Phd2 log data in light of how busy you must already be.   I am not convinced that any issues are not operational efficiency, for example, I likely could improve on my guide-scope/ guide cam structure to make it more solid. On the saddle was a 152mm F8 refractor triplet with a few LBS of imaging related equipment.

Attached is Phd2 log from last night. @ 23:48 I began a recalibration, then I proceeded with the guide assist on after having skewed from the handbox from Park 3 to NGC 7541.
Thank you!

https://openphdguidi...2_logs_Yrrd.zip

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


--
Brian 



Brian Valente

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


--
Brian 



Brian Valente

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics

Attachments:



Roland Christen
 

Sounds perfect!

And if he can post the Dec backlash graph, it would further illuminate things.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: W Hilmo <y.groups@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Mon, Oct 11, 2021 5:11 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO

Hi Nicholas,

I just took a look at the weather for the San Diego area, and it looks like the next 5 or 6 nights will be good for doing this test.

Here is my suggestion:

Set up with either of your refractors.  Configure PHD2 to use your main camera through the refractor and make sure that it is set for single star guiding (the "use multiple stars" checkbox must be unchecked).  Set the exposure time to 1 second.  Point the scope at the star Alshain in the constellation Aquila.  It's about 6 degrees north of the celestial equator and is a very easy to find, naked eye star that is a bit south of Altair.  For that matter, Altair itself is only about 8.5 degrees from the celestial equator, but is so bright that 1 second exposures will probably saturate it.  In a pinch, you could try Altair instead, but I prefer non-saturated stars, so you'd need an even shorter guide exposure.

Once you have Alshain centered in the field of view, click on it in PHD2 and then hold the shift key down on your keyboard and click the "start tracking" icon.  This will force a calibration.  Once the calibration is complete, stop guiding and set MnMo to 20.00 (you will need to set it in two places, one for each axis).  Click the "clear" button on the graph and then click the "start tracking" icon (without holding the shift key down).  This will start tracking and begin building the graph that Roland wants to see.

Let it run for 20 minutes.

I believe that this will get you the information that Roland needs to see.

I hope that this helps,
-Wade (wadeh237 from Cloudy Nights)



On 10/11/21 1:49 PM, Roland Christen via groups.io wrote:
That one is no better. Unfortunately it is cross contaminated. The RA should show the PE and the Dec should show only drift with no PE. It appears that the calibration is off by 45 degrees.

It may not even be calibrated at the celestial equator, so it's not going to be accurate for RA.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Valente <bvalente@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Mon, Oct 11, 2021 3:36 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO

I found an earlier run that looks better:

image.png
image.png

The previous run was unguided data

There were significant number of failed calibration attempts

Not sure what's going on with the previous graph and so many difficulties with calibration. It may be that you have a cable or connection loose somewhere



On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 1:30 PM Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
I'm afraid that is useless data.

Guide graphs ideally should be taken thru the main scope on ONE reasonably bright star at or near the celestial equator, at or near the meridian (either side will do). One star, not multi-star tracking!

What he captured here appears to be a mix of hot pixel tracking along with some periods of actual multi-star tracking.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Valente <bvalente@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Mon, Oct 11, 2021 3:14 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO

Here's the picture from those logs - unguided output with 2 second exposures, approx 20 minutes total time



image.png

On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 12:59 PM Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Guide logs are great for Geeks that like to wade thru long log files. I'm not one of them.

In order to evaluate the health of your mount I would like to see the following done as I asked before: a simple guide graph screen shot.

1) Take a 15 - 20 minute guide graph with guide exposure set to 1 second on a reasonably right star (forget multi-star guiding, it's not important for this mount health test)
2) for the entirety of the test have guide corrections turned OFF

Easiest way to turn off guide corrections is to set MinMove to 20.0 for both axes. Another way is to go into your guide setup and uncheck the guide corrections box for RA and Dec.

The screen shot should show both the drift of both axes as well as the shape of the RA periodic error for the entire 15 - 20 minute period. It will be a clean image of only the mount with none of the interference of any outside software.

Once I get that screen shot from you I can evaluate the state of the mount, whether the bearings are smooth or not and lots of other things that may or may not need some care or adjustment. Until i see that, we cannot do much here but watch and wait. I have only a few more days here at AP, after which I will be gone on an extended trip and won't be able to advise you until I get back the first week of November.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: nicholas via groups.io <chironik=yahoo.com@groups.io>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Mon, Oct 11, 2021 2:24 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO

Hello Mr. Christen.

Firstly I want to express my sincere gratitude for offering to evaluate my Phd2 log data in light of how busy you must already be.   I am not convinced that any issues are not operational efficiency, for example, I likely could improve on my guide-scope/ guide cam structure to make it more solid. On the saddle was a 152mm F8 refractor triplet with a few LBS of imaging related equipment.

Attached is Phd2 log from last night. @ 23:48 I began a recalibration, then I proceeded with the guide assist on after having skewed from the handbox from Park 3 to NGC 7541.
Thank you!

https://openphdguidi...2_logs_Yrrd.zip

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


--
Brian 



Brian Valente

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


--
Brian 



Brian Valente

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics
Attachments:


--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


steve.winston@...
 

On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 03:12 PM, W Hilmo wrote:
stop guiding and set MnMo to 20.00 (you will need to set it in two places, one for each axis).
This obviously doesn't disable guiding, and if there is a spike movement greater than 20 pixels, or the guide star drifts more than 20 pixels during the test then PHD2 will still issue a guide correction.

The easiest way to get the requested data with guiding fully disabled is to just run GA, as Roland suggested earlier in this thread.   It also means that he can ruin the DEC backlash test at the same time and grab those screen shots too.


nicholas
 

thank all so much. 
I have a lot to work with here and can thus refine the testing procedures to make it usable for analyses. 


Peter Nagy
 

Configure PHD2 to use your main camera through the refractor and make sure that it is set for single star guiding (the "use multiple stars" checkbox must be unchecked). 
Well, after GA is done, won't Nicholas have to translate to appropriate MnMo settings for guide scope. I believe his guide scope is 160mm to 165mm  focal length. I know how to translate but can Nicholas? 

set MnMo to 20.00
I think it would be best to uncheck the checkbox for "Enable mount guide output" under Guiding tab. But if running GA, guide output correction is automatically disabled. 

Peter


W Hilmo
 

There are several ways to disable guiding.

I posted the steps that I did because I want to be consistent with Roland's messaging.

As for how MnMo works, it essentially ignores any positional error in the guide star that exceeds the number of pixels specified.  If the guide star moves more than 20 pixels after a 1 second guide exposure, then I doubt that the result would be useful anyway.  If that happens, then we'll have to figure out what's happening and how to deal with it.

I do have one other thought, though.  I know that Nicholas has been testing with non-zero time lapse values in the camera tab.  It's probably best to set that back to zero for this test.

-Wade

On 10/11/21 4:43 PM, Peter Nagy wrote:
Configure PHD2 to use your main camera through the refractor and make sure that it is set for single star guiding (the "use multiple stars" checkbox must be unchecked). 
Well, after GA is done, won't Nicholas have to translate to appropriate MnMo settings for guide scope. I believe his guide scope is 160mm to 165mm  focal length. I know how to translate but can Nicholas? 

set MnMo to 20.00
I think it would be best to uncheck the checkbox for "Enable mount guide output" under Guiding tab. But if running GA, guide output correction is automatically disabled. 

Peter