Problems using ASI air pro and AP mounts


Kenneth Tan
 

I have a strange problem. I am using a c925 on a AP 1600 . I can run it without guiding for about 30 s with fairly round stars.  The moment i try to guide with the phd on the asiair pro, it is all over the place. Unpredictable spikes in both axes.  Has anyone encountered this problem? I will try with phd proper the next time.

 
Kenneth


marsh.family
 

Hi Kenneth

I've had very unpredictable guiding performance with AsiAir Pro until the latest version with multi star guiding. 

I haven't had too many chances to test it out but the guiding was very good when I did. Better then the best with the previous version. And seemingly more stable. I just started it up and it worked. No tweaking. 

Chris



Sent from my Galaxy


-------- Original message --------
From: Kenneth Tan <ktanhs@...>
Date: 2021-06-01 5:21 p.m. (GMT-05:00)
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: [ap-gto] Problems using ASI air pro and AP mounts

I have a strange problem. I am using a c925 on a AP 1600 . I can run it without guiding for about 30 s with fairly round stars.  The moment i try to guide with the phd on the asiair pro, it is all over the place. Unpredictable spikes in both axes.  Has anyone encountered this problem? I will try with phd proper the next time.

 
Kenneth


Kenneth Tan
 

Hmm I wonder if there is something wrong with my setup. I use a 250 mm fl guide scope with an ASI 1290 cam as guidecam

On Wed, 2 Jun 2021 at 05:29, marsh.family <marsh.family@...> wrote:
Hi Kenneth

I've had very unpredictable guiding performance with AsiAir Pro until the latest version with multi star guiding. 

I haven't had too many chances to test it out but the guiding was very good when I did. Better then the best with the previous version. And seemingly more stable. I just started it up and it worked. No tweaking. 

Chris



Sent from my Galaxy


-------- Original message --------
From: Kenneth Tan <ktanhs@...>
Date: 2021-06-01 5:21 p.m. (GMT-05:00)
Subject: [ap-gto] Problems using ASI air pro and AP mounts

I have a strange problem. I am using a c925 on a AP 1600 . I can run it without guiding for about 30 s with fairly round stars.  The moment i try to guide with the phd on the asiair pro, it is all over the place. Unpredictable spikes in both axes.  Has anyone encountered this problem? I will try with phd proper the next time.

 
Kenneth


Kevin Cook
 

Ken - One thing I discovered about the ASIAIR version of PhD guiding is that you have to set the guiding rate to 1X in TWO places - on the AP hand controller keypad (or on AP mount software if using that) and on the ASIAIR pull-out tab (it pulls out to the left from the right-side vertical control panel).  This ASIAIR pull-out tab is the same one you use to select your target and direct a GOTO.  The guiding rate needs to be set at 1X in both places or the guiding is all over the place.   Kevin


On Tue, Jun 1, 2021 at 2:32 PM Kenneth Tan <ktanhs@...> wrote:
Hmm I wonder if there is something wrong with my setup. I use a 250 mm fl guide scope with an ASI 1290 cam as guidecam

On Wed, 2 Jun 2021 at 05:29, marsh.family <marsh.family@...> wrote:
Hi Kenneth

I've had very unpredictable guiding performance with AsiAir Pro until the latest version with multi star guiding. 

I haven't had too many chances to test it out but the guiding was very good when I did. Better then the best with the previous version. And seemingly more stable. I just started it up and it worked. No tweaking. 

Chris



Sent from my Galaxy


-------- Original message --------
From: Kenneth Tan <ktanhs@...>
Date: 2021-06-01 5:21 p.m. (GMT-05:00)
Subject: [ap-gto] Problems using ASI air pro and AP mounts

I have a strange problem. I am using a c925 on a AP 1600 . I can run it without guiding for about 30 s with fairly round stars.  The moment i try to guide with the phd on the asiair pro, it is all over the place. Unpredictable spikes in both axes.  Has anyone encountered this problem? I will try with phd proper the next time.

 
Kenneth


Worsel
 

Kenneth

One advantage to using PHD2 proper versus the PHD version built into the ASIAIR is that you can post your Guide and Debug logs on the PHD2 forum

https://groups.google.com/g/open-phd-guiding

See How to ask for help with PHD2

The PHD2 forum cannot possibly provide insight on modifications that others make to the open source code.

Bryan


Kenneth Tan
 

Thx! 

On Wed, 2 Jun 2021 at 05:53, Kevin Cook <kvc3509@...> wrote:
Ken - One thing I discovered about the ASIAIR version of PhD guiding is that you have to set the guiding rate to 1X in TWO places - on the AP hand controller keypad (or on AP mount software if using that) and on the ASIAIR pull-out tab (it pulls out to the left from the right-side vertical control panel).  This ASIAIR pull-out tab is the same one you use to select your target and direct a GOTO.  The guiding rate needs to be set at 1X in both places or the guiding is all over the place.   Kevin

On Tue, Jun 1, 2021 at 2:32 PM Kenneth Tan <ktanhs@...> wrote:
Hmm I wonder if there is something wrong with my setup. I use a 250 mm fl guide scope with an ASI 1290 cam as guidecam

On Wed, 2 Jun 2021 at 05:29, marsh.family <marsh.family@...> wrote:
Hi Kenneth

I've had very unpredictable guiding performance with AsiAir Pro until the latest version with multi star guiding. 

I haven't had too many chances to test it out but the guiding was very good when I did. Better then the best with the previous version. And seemingly more stable. I just started it up and it worked. No tweaking. 

Chris



Sent from my Galaxy


-------- Original message --------
From: Kenneth Tan <ktanhs@...>
Date: 2021-06-01 5:21 p.m. (GMT-05:00)
Subject: [ap-gto] Problems using ASI air pro and AP mounts

I have a strange problem. I am using a c925 on a AP 1600 . I can run it without guiding for about 30 s with fairly round stars.  The moment i try to guide with the phd on the asiair pro, it is all over the place. Unpredictable spikes in both axes.  Has anyone encountered this problem? I will try with phd proper the next time.

 
Kenneth


Lee Decovnick
 

AAP guiding is frustrating ..I find that I literally must unplug my AP hand controller from the CP4 - as BOTH AAP and the hand controller are send tracking signals ... no kidding. I also have set my AAP Dec and RA aggression to 10% or 15%.  Dithering does work well. And as always, your Polar Alignment needs to be dead on, and the AAP PA program works pretty darn well for me...

Lee


Kenneth Tan
 

Thx

On Thu, 3 Jun 2021 at 12:14, Lee Decovnick <ursa@...> wrote:
AAP guiding is frustrating ..I find that I literally must unplug my AP hand controller from the CP4 - as BOTH AAP and the hand controller are send tracking signals ... no kidding. I also have set my AAP Dec and RA aggression to 10% or 15%.  Dithering does work well. And as always, your Polar Alignment needs to be dead on, and the AAP PA program works pretty darn well for me...

Lee


Roland Christen
 


I find that I literally must unplug my AP hand controller from the CP4 - as BOTH AAP and the hand controller are send tracking signals ... no kidding.
The AP hand controller sends NO signals. It is totally silent unless you, the user, pushes any of the buttons.

Roland


-----Original Message-----
From: Lee Decovnick <ursa@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Jun 2, 2021 11:14 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Problems using ASI air pro and AP mounts

AAP guiding is frustrating ..I find that I literally must unplug my AP hand controller from the CP4 - as BOTH AAP and the hand controller are send tracking signals ... no kidding. I also have set my AAP Dec and RA aggression to 10% or 15%.  Dithering does work well. And as always, your Polar Alignment needs to be dead on, and the AAP PA program works pretty darn well for me...

Lee

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Lee Decovnick
 

Thanks Roland,

I made that errant "assumption" because I observed the AAP guiding program was sending corrections double the necessary "pulse" to the mount - and I had already backed off the pulse length in the app - and when the HC was then disconnected, the guiding settled down to a very narrow and acceptable range in about 5 seconds. 

As I mentioned before, with 3 itterations of AAP's or SharpCap's Polar Alignment app, I can get up to 240 second subs unguided with lovely tight stars.

Lee


Roland Christen
 


when the HC was then disconnected, the guiding settled down
The keypad does not send anything to the mount during guiding, nor does it modify any outside commands sent to the mount, whether they be slewing or guiding commands, regardless of what app is sending them. The keypad is totally separated from the mount. It serves only to give you a manual method of control, manual meaning what you do with your thumbs on the keypad keys. It is NOT a hand corrector in that it doesn't correct anything.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Lee Decovnick <ursa@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jun 3, 2021 5:02 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Problems using ASI air pro and AP mounts

Thanks Roland,

I made that errant "assumption" because I observed the AAP guiding program was sending corrections double the necessary "pulse" to the mount - and I had already backed off the pulse length in the app - and when the HC was then disconnected, the guiding settled down to a very narrow and acceptable range in about 5 seconds. 

As I mentioned before, with 3 itterations of AAP's or SharpCap's Polar Alignment app, I can get up to 240 second subs unguided with lovely tight stars.

Lee

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Roland Christen
 

There is only one way that the keypad can override external instructions: If you have the keypad guide rate set to 1x sidereal but have an external guider set at some lower rate, then if you use the keypad to center an object, it will revert the mount's guide rate back to the keypad setting of 1x sidereal.

I strongly urge for guiding to use the 1x guide rate on your external guide software and not be tempted to set it to some lower value. There is a fundamental reason for that. Lower guide rates do not work well on the stationary Dec axis because it will double or quadruple the time it takes to execute a reversal command. If you want to guide at a more relaxed pace, the proper way to do that is to set the aggressiveness lower, NOT set the guide rate lower. Also: any time you do a calibration run, you need to have the guide rate at 1x sidereal.

Roland

-----Original Message-----
From: Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Jun 3, 2021 5:13 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Problems using ASI air pro and AP mounts


when the HC was then disconnected, the guiding settled down
The keypad does not send anything to the mount during guiding, nor does it modify any outside commands sent to the mount, whether they be slewing or guiding commands, regardless of what app is sending them. The keypad is totally separated from the mount. It serves only to give you a manual method of control, manual meaning what you do with your thumbs on the keypad keys. It is NOT a hand corrector in that it doesn't correct anything.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Lee Decovnick <ursa@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jun 3, 2021 5:02 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Problems using ASI air pro and AP mounts

Thanks Roland,

I made that errant "assumption" because I observed the AAP guiding program was sending corrections double the necessary "pulse" to the mount - and I had already backed off the pulse length in the app - and when the HC was then disconnected, the guiding settled down to a very narrow and acceptable range in about 5 seconds. 

As I mentioned before, with 3 itterations of AAP's or SharpCap's Polar Alignment app, I can get up to 240 second subs unguided with lovely tight stars.

Lee

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


stephanie@...
 

My understanding is that the MinMo parameter is hard coded to be 0.25 pixels on the AAP. If you are using a guide scope instead of an off-axis guider, you might have an +/- 1 arcsec (or more) of hysteresis, which will lead to some pretty bad zigzags.

Stephanie