Topics

Problem with first startup of Mach2 -- obstruction / grinding sound


mjb87@...
 
Edited

I having a problem with my new Mach 2 which was just installed yesterday. I'm using the Ethernet connection, APCC and TSX. Initialization and connection to TSX went fine. There are absolutely no obstructions in the way and the mount would swing easily across both axes (until you get to the stops). I believe the GTOCP5 has the latest firmware (VCP5-P02-08) -- it was updated three weeks ago without a hitch. I'm using v5.30.20 of the Ascom driver. Running latest versions of Windows 10. All of the data connects appear to be working properly. The mount is properly balanced. The lines etched into the mount and axes were aligned.

My mount started off in a Park 3 position and I unparked.  I tested the movement by selecting objects, slewing gradually to the west. Initially everything was fine but when the mount was about halfway to the south (about five hours) it came to an abrupt stop and there was the sound of a mechanical conflict. I commanded a return to Park 3 (no issues), disconnected and unplugged everything and tried to duplicate those previous movements manually. There was no issue doing this -- the mount swung easily far to the west and without obstruction all of the way to Park 4, where I left it.  I then tried moving the mount (via APCC/TSX) to the west from Park 4 and it would not move. Just the sound of the mechanical stop.

The clutches are hand tightened. I first wondered if i had set up the mount incorrectly (reversed the Dec axis) and that I was encountering the mechanical stop (since it stopped after 5 hours movement) so I checked. The mount is set up properly. Again, if rotates freely until it hits the mechanical stops, just where you would think they would be. There is no obstruction at the 5 hours point.

One thing: I thought I was running the latest APCC Pro but it now turns out I was running an older copy of APCC Standard. (Not sure why). I updated to the latest APCC Standard and reconnected. Same thing -- won't move to the west from Park 4 and there is a short sound of a mechanical obstruction. Again, from that position if I loosen the clutches the mount swings freely without noise or obstruction on both axes.  The mount is now sitting approximately in Park 3 and I've disconnected power. I'm finished with troubleshooting for now until I hear back.

Questions:

1. Have I trashed the mount?
2. What could be going wrong?

Thanks.

Marty


Roland Christen
 

I can work with you on that. Send me an e-mail with your e-mail address. We'll figure it out.

Roland Christen
Astro-Physics Inc.



-----Original Message-----
From: mjb87 via groups.io <mjb87@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Mar 3, 2021 8:39 am
Subject: [ap-gto] Problem with first startup of Mach2 -- obstruction / grinding sound

I having a problem with my new Mach 2 which was just installed yesterday. I'm using the Ethernet connection, APCC and TSX. Initialization and connection to TSX went fine. There are absolutely no obstructions in the way and the mount would swing easily across both axes (until you get to the stops). I believe the GTOCP5 has the latest firmware (VCP5-P02-08) -- it was updated three weeks ago without a hitch. I'm using v5.30.20 of the Ascom driver. Running latest versions of Windows 10. All of the data connects appear to be working properly. The mount is properly balanced. The lines etched into the mount and axes were aligned.

My mount started off in a Park 3 position and I unparked.  I tested the movement by selecting objects, slewing gradually to the west. Initially everything was fine but when the mount was about halfway to the west  (about five hours) it came to an abrupt stop and there was the sound of a mechanical conflict. I commanded a return to Park 3 (no issues), disconnected and unplugged everything and tried to duplicate those previous movements manually. There was no issue doing this -- the mount swung easily far to the west and without obstruction all of the way to Park 4, where I left it.  I then tried moving the mount (via APCC/TSX) to the west from Park 4 and it would not move. Just the sound of the mechanical stop.

The clutches are hand tightened. I first wondered if i had set up the mount incorrectly (reversed the Dec axis) and that I was encountering the mechanical stop (since it stopped after 5 hours movement) so I checked. The mount is set up properly. Again, if rotates freely until it hits the mechanical stops, just where you would think they would be. There is no obstruction at the 5 hours point.

One thing: I thought I was running the latest APCC Pro but it now turns out I was running an older copy of APCC Standard. (Not sure why). I updated to the latest APCC Standard and reconnected. Same thing -- won't move to the west from Park 4 and there is a short sound of a mechanical obstruction. Again, from that position if I loosen the clutches the mount swings freely without noise or obstruction on both axes.  The mount is now sitting approximately in Park 3 and I've disconnected power. I'm finished with troubleshooting for now until I hear back.

Questions:

1. Have I trashed the mount?
2. What could be going wrong?

Thanks.

Marty

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Ray Gralak
 

Hi Marty,

If you also had a previous A-P mount then the Mach2 is probably hitting limits set up previously for the other mount.

First, uninstall APCC Standard, so you do not accidentally use it again. You should only use APCC Pro with your Mach2.

Next, delete or rename C:\ProgramData\Astro-Physics\APCC\settings.apcc. This will allow APCC to reset all settings, including the limits.

Finally, run APCC Pro again, and it will reconfigure to default settings for your Mach2.

If there are still any issues, then send Roland an email as he requested.

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Roland Christen via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, March 3, 2021 7:16 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Problem with first startup of Mach2 -- obstruction / grinding sound

I can work with you on that. Send me an e-mail with your e-mail address. We'll figure it out.



Roland Christen
Astro-Physics Inc.




-----Original Message-----
From: mjb87 via groups.io <mjb87=verizon.net@groups.io>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Mar 3, 2021 8:39 am
Subject: [ap-gto] Problem with first startup of Mach2 -- obstruction / grinding sound


I having a problem with my new Mach 2 which was just installed yesterday. I'm using the Ethernet connection,
APCC and TSX. Initialization and connection to TSX went fine. There are absolutely no obstructions in the way
and the mount would swing easily across both axes (until you get to the stops). I believe the GTOCP5 has the
latest firmware (VCP5-P02-08) -- it was updated three weeks ago without a hitch. I'm using v5.30.20 of the
Ascom driver. Running latest versions of Windows 10. All of the data connects appear to be working properly.
The mount is properly balanced. The lines etched into the mount and axes were aligned.

My mount started off in a Park 3 position and I unparked. I tested the movement by selecting objects, slewing
gradually to the west. Initially everything was fine but when the mount was about halfway to the west (about
five hours) it came to an abrupt stop and there was the sound of a mechanical conflict. I commanded a return
to Park 3 (no issues), disconnected and unplugged everything and tried to duplicate those previous
movements manually. There was no issue doing this -- the mount swung easily far to the west and without
obstruction all of the way to Park 4, where I left it. I then tried moving the mount (via APCC/TSX) to the west
from Park 4 and it would not move. Just the sound of the mechanical stop.

The clutches are hand tightened. I first wondered if i had set up the mount incorrectly (reversed the Dec axis)
and that I was encountering the mechanical stop (since it stopped after 5 hours movement) so I checked. The
mount is set up properly. Again, if rotates freely until it hits the mechanical stops, just where you would think
they would be. There is no obstruction at the 5 hours point.

One thing: I thought I was running the latest APCC Pro but it now turns out I was running an older copy of
APCC Standard. (Not sure why). I updated to the latest APCC Standard and reconnected. Same thing -- won't
move to the west from Park 4 and there is a short sound of a mechanical obstruction. Again, from that position
if I loosen the clutches the mount swings freely without noise or obstruction on both axes. The mount is now
sitting approximately in Park 3 and I've disconnected power. I'm finished with troubleshooting for now until I
hear back.

Questions:

1. Have I trashed the mount?
2. What could be going wrong?

Thanks.

Marty

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


mjb87@...
 
Edited

Many thanks. I'll follow the suggestions above.

I did use APCC briefly with my 1100GTO some years ago. Not sure it was this version on this computer, however.

I thought I had already downloaded APCC Pro and didn't notice it was Standard until after this all happened.  Still trying to find out where my copy of APCC Pro is. I got a yellow piece of paper saying APCC Pro is included with the Mach2 but no instructions on how to get the license. I already purchased APCC Standard for this computer and another copy of APCC Pro for my other computer running my other mount (the 1100GTO). I tried purchasing another APCC Pro license for my Mach2 computer (even though it is supposed to be free) and the link sends me to a non-existent page.


Roland Christen
 

The instruction sheet (welcome letter) that comes with the mount tell you to call the AP office and they will set you up with a license for APCC Pro.

For your stalling problem, please send me your e-mail so I can run you thru a couple of simple tests.

Roland Christen
Astro-Physics Inc.



-----Original Message-----
From: mjb87 via groups.io <mjb87@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Mar 3, 2021 10:13 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Problem with first startup of Mach2 -- obstruction / grinding sound

[Edited Message Follows]
Many thanks. I'll follow the suggestions above.

I did use APCC briefly with my 1100GTO some years ago. Not sure it was this version on this computer, however.

I thought I had already downloaded APCC Pro and didn't notice it was Standard until after this all happened.  Still trying to find out where my copy of APCC Pro is. I got a yellow piece of paper saying APCC Pro is included with the Mach2 but no instructions on how to get the license. I already purchased APCC Standard for this computer and another copy of APCC Pro for my other computer running my other mount (the 1100GTO). I tried purchasing another APCC Pro license for my Mach2 computer (even though it is supposed to be free) and the link sends me to a non-existent page.

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


mjb87@...
 

Thanks. I was looking for a card. Didn't know you had to call. (Not clear from the yellow slip). Trying to send you my email. Don't have any contact info for you. Sent a note to Karen with that info.


Roland Christen
 

The instructions are on the Welcome sheet that comes with the manual. First page of the manual.

Roland


-----Original Message-----
From: mjb87 via groups.io <mjb87@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Mar 3, 2021 11:07 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Problem with first startup of Mach2 -- obstruction / grinding sound

Thanks. I was looking for a card. Didn't know you had to call. (Not clear from the yellow slip). Trying to send you my email. Don't have any contact info for you. Sent a note to Karen with that info.

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Roland Christen
 

Karen is on vacation this week. Send your e-mail address to me directly at chris1011@...

Roland



-----Original Message-----
From: mjb87 via groups.io <mjb87@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Mar 3, 2021 11:07 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Problem with first startup of Mach2 -- obstruction / grinding sound

Thanks. I was looking for a card. Didn't know you had to call. (Not clear from the yellow slip). Trying to send you my email. Don't have any contact info for you. Sent a note to Karen with that info.

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


mjb87@...
 

I've installed APCC Pro. Daleen was kind enough to resend me the license key. The software is up and running. I notice that it thought I was using my 1100 and wonder if I still have deleted the earlier data.

The Dec axis works fine -- no issues. The RA axis hits the stop (sort of a "raspberry" sound) as it starts to move west from Park 3. Moving east is fine -- only happens when I move west.  However, if I then release the clutches and move the mount, say, 15 degrees further west, it "moves" the point at which the conflict occurs further along. I've done that repeatedly and can now move the mount from counterweight bar up on one side to counterweight bar up on the other. I still get the conflict but it is now at a point where I don't plan to send the mount.


Ray Gralak
 

Hi Marty,

I've installed APCC Pro. Daleen was kind enough to resend me the license key. The software is up and
running. I notice that it thought I was using my 1100 and wonder if I still have deleted the earlier data.
The default is 1100, but when you connect APCC should detect the CP5 and set the mount type to Mach2 if you haven't set it already.

And just in case, please make sure you have the latest APCC Pro version (v1.8.8.17)

If not, you should download it from here:

http://www.apastrosoftware.com/apcc_download/APCC_Pro_Setup_1.8.8.17.exe

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of mjb87 via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, March 3, 2021 9:55 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Problem with first startup of Mach2 -- obstruction / grinding sound

I've installed APCC Pro. Daleen was kind enough to resend me the license key. The software is up and
running. I notice that it thought I was using my 1100 and wonder if I still have deleted the earlier data.

The Dec axis works fine -- no issues. The RA axis hits the stop (sort of a "raspberry" sound) as it starts to move
west from Park 3. Moving east is fine -- only happens when I move west. However, if I then release the
clutches and move the mount, say, 15 degrees further west, it "moves" the point at which the conflict occurs
further along. I've done that repeatedly and can now move the mount from counterweight bar up on one side to
counterweight bar up on the other. I still get the conflict but it is now at a point where I don't plan to send the
mount.


Roland Christen
 

Try running at a lower slew rate, 600x and 1000x. If it works without stopping then that's a clue for me.

I can work with you more effectively if you send me your e-mail address.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: mjb87 via groups.io <mjb87@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Mar 3, 2021 11:55 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Problem with first startup of Mach2 -- obstruction / grinding sound

I've installed APCC Pro. Daleen was kind enough to resend me the license key. The software is up and running. I notice that it thought I was using my 1100 and wonder if I still have deleted the earlier data.

The Dec axis works fine -- no issues. The RA axis hits the stop (sort of a "raspberry" sound) as it starts to move west from Park 3. Moving east is fine -- only happens when I move west.  However, if I then release the clutches and move the mount, say, 15 degrees further west, it "moves" the point at which the conflict occurs further along. I've done that repeatedly and can now move the mount from counterweight bar up on one side to counterweight bar up on the other. I still get the conflict but it is now at a point where I don't plan to send the mount.

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


mjb87@...
 
Edited

Tried to send you my email address. Maybe this third try will go through.

Speed doesn't affect it. I'm hearing the grinding noise at all speeds: 64x to 1200x.

Running v1.8.8.17 of APCC Pro. (Downloaded it today.) 


Terri Zittritsch
 

Hi Marty,
The first thing I ran into that flipped me out a bit is what happens when the clutches are loose.   I could not reliably hand tighten enough and need to use an allen wrench to snug them up (just a bit).
As I recall I had noise and stoppage ensued.   I also saw some messages in APCC.      

Terri


Roland Christen
 

hello All,

With the help of our mount owner we found the problem. He was able to locate the obstruction on the gear teeth by removing the grease cover on the side of the mount that exposes the worm gear teeth. There was a tiny washer that had worked its way into the gear teeth. Two screws had vibrated loose, probably during shipping, and fallen into the gearbox along with their washers.

This is entirely my fault since i do all the final assembly and testing of the Mach2 mounts. One of the final things I do is to adjust the belt tension, and this requires loosening the 4 screws holding the motor in place. Apparently I must have tightened only two of the 4 and left the other two loose. Murphy's law states that any loose screws will always loosen more and fall out to jam up the gears. The corollary is that they will only tighten up if that causes the machinery to jam. I will change my procedure based on this unfortunate occurrence in order to prevent this from happening again.

Roland
(donning dunce hat of shame Disappointed)


-----Original Message-----
From: mjb87 via groups.io <mjb87@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Mar 3, 2021 11:55 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Problem with first startup of Mach2 -- obstruction / grinding sound

I've installed APCC Pro. Daleen was kind enough to resend me the license key. The software is up and running. I notice that it thought I was using my 1100 and wonder if I still have deleted the earlier data.

The Dec axis works fine -- no issues. The RA axis hits the stop (sort of a "raspberry" sound) as it starts to move west from Park 3. Moving east is fine -- only happens when I move west.  However, if I then release the clutches and move the mount, say, 15 degrees further west, it "moves" the point at which the conflict occurs further along. I've done that repeatedly and can now move the mount from counterweight bar up on one side to counterweight bar up on the other. I still get the conflict but it is now at a point where I don't plan to send the mount.

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Eric Weiner
 

Taking ownership is a sign of your character and integrity. Thank you. 


On Mar 4, 2021, at 11:13, Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011@...> wrote:


hello All,

With the help of our mount owner we found the problem. He was able to locate the obstruction on the gear teeth by removing the grease cover on the side of the mount that exposes the worm gear teeth. There was a tiny washer that had worked its way into the gear teeth. Two screws had vibrated loose, probably during shipping, and fallen into the gearbox along with their washers.

This is entirely my fault since i do all the final assembly and testing of the Mach2 mounts. One of the final things I do is to adjust the belt tension, and this requires loosening the 4 screws holding the motor in place. Apparently I must have tightened only two of the 4 and left the other two loose. Murphy's law states that any loose screws will always loosen more and fall out to jam up the gears. The corollary is that they will only tighten up if that causes the machinery to jam. I will change my procedure based on this unfortunate occurrence in order to prevent this from happening again.

Roland
(donning dunce hat of shame Disappointed)


-----Original Message-----
From: mjb87 via groups.io <mjb87@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Mar 3, 2021 11:55 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Problem with first startup of Mach2 -- obstruction / grinding sound

I've installed APCC Pro. Daleen was kind enough to resend me the license key. The software is up and running. I notice that it thought I was using my 1100 and wonder if I still have deleted the earlier data.

The Dec axis works fine -- no issues. The RA axis hits the stop (sort of a "raspberry" sound) as it starts to move west from Park 3. Moving east is fine -- only happens when I move west.  However, if I then release the clutches and move the mount, say, 15 degrees further west, it "moves" the point at which the conflict occurs further along. I've done that repeatedly and can now move the mount from counterweight bar up on one side to counterweight bar up on the other. I still get the conflict but it is now at a point where I don't plan to send the mount.

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


mjb87@...
 

To be clear, as the topic starter, I was very impressed by Roland's direct and detailed engagement in sorting this out. My only fear is that he spent so much time dealing with my emails that he fall behind in 1100GTO production and those on the waiting list will be upset with me :)


Roland Christen
 

Not to worry. The 1100 mount is being assembled in normal fashion by the 1100 crew.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: mjb87 via groups.io <mjb87@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Mar 4, 2021 1:47 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Problem with first startup of Mach2 -- obstruction / grinding sound

To be clear, as the topic starter, I was very impressed by Roland's direct and detailed engagement in sorting this out. My only fear is that he spent so much time dealing with my emails that he fall behind in 1100GTO production and those on the waiting list will be upset with me :)

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Jeffc
 

Roland -- thx for the detailed explanation.  

Apparently I must have tightened only two of the 4 and left the other two loose.

I'm just wondering.. is there anything us new mount owners should check after unpacking and before powering up?   Sorta like a final QA?
(Mach2 is scheduled to arrive monday.)

thx
-jeff


On Thu, Mar 4, 2021 at 10:13 AM Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
hello All,

With the help of our mount owner we found the problem. He was able to locate the obstruction on the gear teeth by removing the grease cover on the side of the mount that exposes the worm gear teeth. There was a tiny washer that had worked its way into the gear teeth. Two screws had vibrated loose, probably during shipping, and fallen into the gearbox along with their washers.

This is entirely my fault since i do all the final assembly and testing of the Mach2 mounts. One of the final things I do is to adjust the belt tension, and this requires loosening the 4 screws holding the motor in place. Apparently I must have tightened only two of the 4 and left the other two loose. Murphy's law states that any loose screws will always loosen more and fall out to jam up the gears. The corollary is that they will only tighten up if that causes the machinery to jam. I will change my procedure based on this unfortunate occurrence in order to prevent this from happening again.

Roland
(donning dunce hat of shame Disappointed)


Roland Christen
 


is there anything us new mount owners should check after unpacking
Normally nothing to check. However, if you are curious, the motor boxes have covers that can be removed and you can watch the motors doing their thing. We have always encouraged people to remove the covers to see how things work under the hood.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Jeffc <jeffcrilly@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Mar 4, 2021 4:36 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Problem with first startup of Mach2 -- obstruction / grinding sound

Roland -- thx for the detailed explanation.  

Apparently I must have tightened only two of the 4 and left the other two loose.

I'm just wondering.. is there anything us new mount owners should check after unpacking and before powering up?   Sorta like a final QA?
(Mach2 is scheduled to arrive monday.)

thx
-jeff

On Thu, Mar 4, 2021 at 10:13 AM Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
hello All,

With the help of our mount owner we found the problem. He was able to locate the obstruction on the gear teeth by removing the grease cover on the side of the mount that exposes the worm gear teeth. There was a tiny washer that had worked its way into the gear teeth. Two screws had vibrated loose, probably during shipping, and fallen into the gearbox along with their washers.

This is entirely my fault since i do all the final assembly and testing of the Mach2 mounts. One of the final things I do is to adjust the belt tension, and this requires loosening the 4 screws holding the motor in place. Apparently I must have tightened only two of the 4 and left the other two loose. Murphy's law states that any loose screws will always loosen more and fall out to jam up the gears. The corollary is that they will only tighten up if that causes the machinery to jam. I will change my procedure based on this unfortunate occurrence in order to prevent this from happening again.

Roland
(donning dunce hat of shame Disappointed)


--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


DFisch
 

Checking under the hood is a great recommendation but I would probably stay away from kicking the tires

On Thu, Mar 4, 2021 at 20:01 Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

is there anything us new mount owners should check after unpacking
Normally nothing to check. However, if you are curious, the motor boxes have covers that can be removed and you can watch the motors doing their thing. We have always encouraged people to remove the covers to see how things work under the hood.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Jeffc <jeffcrilly@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Mar 4, 2021 4:36 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Problem with first startup of Mach2 -- obstruction / grinding sound

Roland -- thx for the detailed explanation.  

Apparently I must have tightened only two of the 4 and left the other two loose.

I'm just wondering.. is there anything us new mount owners should check after unpacking and before powering up?   Sorta like a final QA?
(Mach2 is scheduled to arrive monday.)

thx
-jeff

On Thu, Mar 4, 2021 at 10:13 AM Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
hello All,

With the help of our mount owner we found the problem. He was able to locate the obstruction on the gear teeth by removing the grease cover on the side of the mount that exposes the worm gear teeth. There was a tiny washer that had worked its way into the gear teeth. Two screws had vibrated loose, probably during shipping, and fallen into the gearbox along with their washers.

This is entirely my fault since i do all the final assembly and testing of the Mach2 mounts. One of the final things I do is to adjust the belt tension, and this requires loosening the 4 screws holding the motor in place. Apparently I must have tightened only two of the 4 and left the other two loose. Murphy's law states that any loose screws will always loosen more and fall out to jam up the gears. The corollary is that they will only tighten up if that causes the machinery to jam. I will change my procedure based on this unfortunate occurrence in order to prevent this from happening again.

Roland
(donning dunce hat of shame Disappointed)


--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics

--
TJF MOBILE