PEMPro error msgs


legendtrail@...
 

Updated PEMPro software last night then had attached problem running polar alignment wizard. At 9:37, it takes 
the fit image, then stops with the memory error message. There is no memory error on diagnostic. Please advise.

Ray Hansen


Ray Gralak
 

The error is "insufficient memory". What kind of camera is this? You might try configuring the Camera Frame Size to "Center 1/2" or "Center 1/3" on the Camera Information page (Step 2 of 9).

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of legendtrail via groups.io
Sent: Monday, March 7, 2022 8:04 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: [ap-gto] PEMPro error msgs

Updated PEMPro software last night then had attached problem running polar alignment wizard. At 9:37, it takes
the fit image, then stops with the memory error message. There is no memory error on diagnostic. Please advise.

Ray Hansen


legendtrail@...
 

Hello Ray,
The camera is an ASI6200mm pro, and the frame size is already set to center 1/2. Just to be clear, this setup
has been working since the mount was installed here in August. Last night was the first problem occurrence.
I can try 1/3 and 1/4 Tuesday and report.


Ray Gralak
 

The camera is an ASI6200mm pro, and the frame size is already set to center 1/2. Just to be clear, this setup
has been working since the mount was installed here in August. Last night was the first problem occurrence.
I can try 1/3 and 1/4 Tuesday and report.
Unfortunately the ZWO ASCOM Camera driver is extremely memory inefficient. A single unbinned full-frame image from your camera will require well over the 1GB graphics maximum memory available to PEMPro. If you have updated the ZWO camera driver or ASCOM platform recently, then memory consumption could be even greater, requiring a smaller image.

PEMPro only needs a single star to track polar alignment or PEC, so 1/3 or 1/4 frame is more than good enough! :-)

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of legendtrail via groups.io
Sent: Monday, March 7, 2022 7:46 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro error msgs

Hello Ray,
The camera is an ASI6200mm pro, and the frame size is already set to center 1/2. Just to be clear, this setup
has been working since the mount was installed here in August. Last night was the first problem occurrence.
I can try 1/3 and 1/4 Tuesday and report.


Emilio J. Robau, P.E.
 

I have experienced the same issue and unfortunately use Pempro only on a mission critical task of identifying the periodic error and programming the mount.  Even then, it is a huge hassle only using my ZWO 183 which has substantially less memory needs.   I recently upgraded my computer with more memory.  That may help.   Not sure.  I switched to Sharpcap for polar alignment. I was unsuccessful in getting Pempro to work with the 183.  Interesting thing is that it works until the last step or two where it fails.    The 183 works fine with sharpcap.


 

I use PEMPro with ASI294mc and ASI2600MC without issues. I use SGP as the camera, which I think side-steps the zwo driver memory issue, but they work great. i create PECs about 1-2 times per week



On Tue, Mar 8, 2022 at 8:06 AM Emilio J. Robau, P.E. <ejr@...> wrote:
I have experienced the same issue and unfortunately use Pempro only on a mission critical task of identifying the periodic error and programming the mount.  Even then, it is a huge hassle only using my ZWO 183 which has substantially less memory needs.   I recently upgraded my computer with more memory.  That may help.   Not sure.  I switched to Sharpcap for polar alignment. I was unsuccessful in getting Pempro to work with the 183.  Interesting thing is that it works until the last step or two where it fails.    The 183 works fine with sharpcap.



--
Brian 



Brian Valente


Emilio J. Robau, P.E.
 

Brian,

How much memory do you have on your machine?


ap@CaptivePhotons.com
 

On Tue, Mar 8, 2022 at 11:06 AM, Emilio J. Robau, P.E. wrote:
I have experienced the same issue and unfortunately use Pempro only on a mission critical task of identifying the periodic error and programming the mount.  Even then, it is a huge hassle only using my ZWO 183 which has substantially less memory needs.   I recently upgraded my computer with more memory.  That may help.   Not sure.  I switched to Sharpcap for polar alignment. I was unsuccessful in getting Pempro to work with the 183.  Interesting thing is that it works until the last step or two where it fails.    The 183 works fine with sharpcap.
I was able, once, to push my way through using Pempro with the 2600 for PE, but was never able to get it to go all the way through for polar alignment, even with smallest ROI and maximum binning, I had to continually disconnect and reconnect as I went through steps, but near the last one it would fail and not be able to be restarted.

Like APPM, Pempro will let you use another applications camera.  i have not tried this, but if you have other software that can control the camera, it may work around Pempro's memory limitations.  I was able to use that with 32 bit TSX when I first got APPM, before it could use the 64 bit NINA (or now 64 bit TSX).  See the dropdown below. 

Maybe one day this whole industry will realize 64 bit is here to stay and adopt it.  I wish Microsoft would do what Apple did, and just declare 32 bit dead and move on.   But every astro vendor points to every other vendor and says "but see, most everyone is 32 bit, and we want to be sure we stay compatible".   Makes me wonder ASCOM is not still mostly 16 bit.  And only supports Film.  :( 



 

For the machine running PEMPro?

it's an intel-nuc style (lenovo brand) , a modest micro computer on the telescope. 16gb RAM intel i5

On Tue, Mar 8, 2022 at 8:14 AM Emilio J. Robau, P.E. <ejr@...> wrote:

Brian,

How much memory do you have on your machine?



--
Brian 



Brian Valente


Emilio J. Robau, P.E.
 

Linwood,

You describe exactly what was happening to my setup and with the smallest ROI but without binning any more than 2 bin.  I spent countless hours on it and I also experienced the issue with the curve, but have not choice but to put up with it and connect and disconnect and hope it works.    


Ray Gralak
 

Maybe one day this whole industry will realize 64 bit is here to stay and adopt it. I wish Microsoft would do what
Apple did, and just declare 32 bit dead and move on. But every astro vendor points to every other vendor and
says "but see, most everyone is 32 bit, and we want to be sure we stay compatible". Makes me wonder ASCOM is
not still mostly 16 bit. And only supports Film. :(
But should we REALLY need a 64-bit process to load an image with any amateur astro-ccd camera today? :-)

I think it's getting out of hand. It shouldn't require 1.2+ GB of RAM to load a single monochrome 46 Mpixel x 16-bit image. That's over 10x the amount of memory the image should take.

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of ap@...
Sent: Tuesday, March 8, 2022 8:16 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro error msgs

On Tue, Mar 8, 2022 at 11:06 AM, Emilio J. Robau, P.E. wrote:


I have experienced the same issue and unfortunately use Pempro only on a mission critical task of
identifying the periodic error and programming the mount. Even then, it is a huge hassle only using my ZWO 183
which has substantially less memory needs. I recently upgraded my computer with more memory. That may help.
Not sure. I switched to Sharpcap for polar alignment. I was unsuccessful in getting Pempro to work with the 183.
Interesting thing is that it works until the last step or two where it fails. The 183 works fine with sharpcap.

I was able, once, to push my way through using Pempro with the 2600 for PE, but was never able to get it to go all
the way through for polar alignment, even with smallest ROI and maximum binning, I had to continually
disconnect and reconnect as I went through steps, but near the last one it would fail and not be able to be
restarted.

Like APPM, Pempro will let you use another applications camera. i have not tried this, but if you have other
software that can control the camera, it may work around Pempro's memory limitations. I was able to use that with
32 bit TSX when I first got APPM, before it could use the 64 bit NINA (or now 64 bit TSX). See the dropdown
below.

Maybe one day this whole industry will realize 64 bit is here to stay and adopt it. I wish Microsoft would do what
Apple did, and just declare 32 bit dead and move on. But every astro vendor points to every other vendor and
says "but see, most everyone is 32 bit, and we want to be sure we stay compatible". Makes me wonder ASCOM is
not still mostly 16 bit. And only supports Film. :(




ap@CaptivePhotons.com
 

On Tue, Mar 8, 2022 at 09:10 PM, Ray Gralak wrote:
But should we REALLY need a 64-bit process to load an image with any amateur astro-ccd camera today? :-)

Well, it would appear the answer is "yes".  :) 

Oh... you said "should".  If we're going to ask how thing SHOULD work instead of how they DO work, can we discuss the US Tax code, Congress, and why refrigerators now need to be cloud connected?   :)  :) 

But time passes, technology improves.  When I first was writing programs we were cramming every tiny bit of information we could into minimal data size because a 60megabyte disk drive was the size of a washing machine.  As time went on, and we had gigabytes then terabytes, we stopped paying so much attention.  Efficiency went WAY down because the tricks and talent needed to keep being that efficient was no longer cost effective.   In just the last decade or two the average PC went from under 1GB to 8GB, maybe even now 16GB; my little NUC used for capture has 32GB, and it wasn't expensive.  Why limit each program to 2GB memory?

I'd argue that time has passed for 32 bit programs.  ZWO probably just thinks "what is wrong with these guys, who cares if it uses a gigabyte or not".  They are wrong, but they are getting less wrong all the time (if that's really their thought process as opposed to just being sloppy, which is where I would bet money).  And this ignores the fact many 32 bit programs DO work with ZWO big cameras. 

Astrophotography programs are still a bit stuck in the past.  Notice how practically everything still says "CCD" when very few (certainly new entrants into the field) have CCD's.  Lots of cottage industries that do not want to re-engineer software or hardware - I get it, it's expensive. Wouldn't surprise me to run across some program still written in Fortran or Cobol. 

But wouldn't it nice to never have people run into these memory issues?  

My 2 cents, worth probably much less than that.  :) 

Linwood


legendtrail@...
 

PA working reliably tonight using 1/4 frame. Thanks Ray.


Ray Gralak
 

But wouldn't it nice to never have people run into these memory issues?
And it would be nice if a 46MPix image did not require 1.2 GB. There is absolutely no good reason for that kind of inefficiency.

PEMPro is not an image processing program. It just needs a single star to do its job. The 1GB limit of 32-bit Winforms should have been enough.

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of ap@...
Sent: Tuesday, March 8, 2022 6:38 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro error msgs

On Tue, Mar 8, 2022 at 09:10 PM, Ray Gralak wrote:


But should we REALLY need a 64-bit process to load an image with any amateur astro-ccd camera today?
:-)

Well, it would appear the answer is "yes". :)

Oh... you said "should". If we're going to ask how thing SHOULD work instead of how they DO work, can we
discuss the US Tax code, Congress, and why refrigerators now need to be cloud connected? :) :)

But time passes, technology improves. When I first was writing programs we were cramming every tiny bit of
information we could into minimal data size because a 60megabyte disk drive was the size of a washing machine.
As time went on, and we had gigabytes then terabytes, we stopped paying so much attention. Efficiency went
WAY down because the tricks and talent needed to keep being that efficient was no longer cost effective. In just
the last decade or two the average PC went from under 1GB to 8GB, maybe even now 16GB; my little NUC used
for capture has 32GB, and it wasn't expensive. Why limit each program to 2GB memory?

I'd argue that time has passed for 32 bit programs. ZWO probably just thinks "what is wrong with these guys, who
cares if it uses a gigabyte or not". They are wrong, but they are getting less wrong all the time (if that's really their
thought process as opposed to just being sloppy, which is where I would bet money). And this ignores the fact
many 32 bit programs DO work with ZWO big cameras.

Astrophotography programs are still a bit stuck in the past. Notice how practically everything still says "CCD"
when very few (certainly new entrants into the field) have CCD's. Lots of cottage industries that do not want to re-
engineer software or hardware - I get it, it's expensive. Wouldn't surprise me to run across some program still
written in Fortran or Cobol.

But wouldn't it nice to never have people run into these memory issues?

My 2 cents, worth probably much less than that. :)

Linwood