Odd APCC-PRO behavior with horizon limits "Time before limit reached" #APCC


Eric Weiner
 

This evening I noticed appc-pro was reporting that I would reach my horizon limit significantly before my actual horizon limit would occur.  I checked my hrz file and didn't see anything odd.  I switched to the "site" tab to check the time and site info, it was correct.  When I switched back to the horizon tab the "time before limit reached" was correct even though I changed nothing.

Eric


Ray Gralak
 

Hi Eric,

That looks like it could be a user interface glitch that was corrected by switching from the Horizon tab and back to it.

Were you using a remote desktop application to connect to the computer running APCC? Some remote desktop applications have been known to display stale graphics at times.

Or, it could be a graphics driver issue. What computer model and graphics card (if any) are you using?

Unfortunately, log files will not help in this case as the horizon limit is not recorded.

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Eric Weiner
Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2021 12:07 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: [ap-gto] Odd APCC-PRO behavior with horizon limits "Time before limit reached" #APCC

This evening I noticed appc-pro was reporting that I would reach my horizon limit significantly before my actual
horizon limit would occur. I checked my hrz file and didn't see anything odd. I switched to the "site" tab to
check the time and site info, it was correct. When I switched back to the horizon tab the "time before limit
reached" was correct even though I changed nothing.

Eric



Eric Weiner
 

Howdy Ray,

No, no remote desktop of any kind.  APCC-Pro runs on my desktop and that's where I took those screenshots.  I do remote out to the mount with a ICRON Ravel 3104, but I don't see how that would create a graphics lag.

It's a homebuilt PC:  Threadripper 3990x CPU, Win 10 v21H2 with all of the latest updates, RTX 3090 GPU with driver 429.29 from 12/20/2021.

Eric


Ray Gralak
 

Hi Eric,

Switching between tabs does not cause a recalculation, so it is almost certainly an issue with graphics on your computer. I can't think of another reason why this could happen.

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Eric Weiner
Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2021 10:03 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Odd APCC-PRO behavior with horizon limits "Time before limit reached"

Howdy Ray,

No, no remote desktop of any kind. APCC-Pro runs on my desktop and that's where I took those
screenshots. I do remote out to the mount with a ICRON Ravel 3104, but I don't see how that would create a
graphics lag.

It's a homebuilt PC: Threadripper 3990x CPU, Win 10 v21H2 with all of the latest updates, RTX 3090 GPU with
driver 429.29 from 12/20/2021.

Eric


Ray Gralak
 

Eric,

Are you running Windows 10 Pro, or Windows 10 Windows 10 Pro for Workstations?

If you are just running Windows 10 Pro, there may be a software issue with that CPU because Windows thinks there are 2 CPUs unless you disable SMT. See this link:

https://www.anandtech.com/show/15483/amd-threadripper-3990x-review/3

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Eric Weiner
Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2021 10:03 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Odd APCC-PRO behavior with horizon limits "Time before limit reached"

Howdy Ray,

No, no remote desktop of any kind. APCC-Pro runs on my desktop and that's where I took those
screenshots. I do remote out to the mount with a ICRON Ravel 3104, but I don't see how that would create a
graphics lag.

It's a homebuilt PC: Threadripper 3990x CPU, Win 10 v21H2 with all of the latest updates, RTX 3090 GPU with
driver 429.29 from 12/20/2021.

Eric


Eric Weiner
 

Ray,

Interesting article.  I haven't seen that before.  I am using Win 10 Pro, not Pro for Workstations.  Nevertheless, I recreated the authors conditions by artificially fully loading my CPU (screenshot attached).  As you can see, only 1 socket is shown.  I verified in my BIOS that SMT is enabled.  My MB is an ASUS Zenith II Extreme Alpha.  The SMT conditions are either "AUTO" which the documentation states is enabled, or "DISABLED."

Cheers,
Eric


Ray Gralak
 

Eric,

If it's not that this it's likely a graphics issue on your computer. APCC does not recalculate the Horizons limit time when switching between tabs.

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Eric Weiner
Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2021 11:15 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Odd APCC-PRO behavior with horizon limits "Time before limit reached"

Ray,

Interesting article. I haven't seen that before. I am using Win 10 Pro, not Pro for Workstations. Nevertheless,
I recreated the authors conditions by artificially fully loading my CPU (screenshot attached). As you can see,
only 1 socket is shown. I verified in my BIOS that SMT is enabled. My MB is an ASUS Zenith II Extreme
Alpha. The SMT conditions are either "AUTO" which the documentation states is enabled, or "DISABLED."

Cheers,
Eric



Eric Weiner
 

Ray,

It's not obvious to me how that could occur without some other artifact.  I'm open to suggestions from those with computer science backgrounds.  To me it seems like APCC did the calculation wrong at some point, and I just happened to see it before changing tabs.  I could be totally wrong of course. Also, I'm fairly certain that I switched back and forth between the Meridian and Horizon tabs when I first noticed the horizon limit error.  I wanted to see if the Meridian limit was being reported correctly, which it was.  I can't be certain because it was getting late (and I had a few drinks over Christmas day), but I think the "correction" occurred when the limit was reached.  I just happened to be looking at the Site tab when that happened.  The 23' 59" time remaining in the screenshot was taken when I first noticed the error, so easily a couple tens of minutes before the correction occurred. 

For completeness, the horizon countdown timer was operating when it was displaying the incorrect "time before limit reached."  It wasn't just a static screen, and we're talking a several hour delta between what was displayed and what the actual limit was.  In hindsight I wish I would have let it run out to see if it triggered the "Stop Tracking" command. I don't usually monitor an imaging session, so I have no idea if this has happened before or if it was just a one-off fluke.  If the situation recreates itself I'll let the limit timer expire to see what happens. 

I was paying attention this time simply because I was exercising a fully automated N.I.N.A. advanced profile for the first time, including a Dec Arc model (Awesome plug-in Dale, thanks!) and Smart Meridian Flip.  The APCC GUI was sometimes minimized, and sometimes not.  It's set to stay up front when not minimized, so there were plenty of opportunities for the screen to refresh itself.  I was hours into the run before I noticed it.

As a sidebar, I highly recommend N.I.N.A. for those who haven't tried the latest incarnation.  It has come a long way, very elegant.  I was a SGP user for several years before trying N.I.N.A. 2.0 after reading comments on it from other AP owners.  The versatility the advanced profile sequencer provides is really quite impressive.  

I'll keep an eye on this moving forward.

Thanks,
Eric


Ray Gralak
 

Eric,

I guess it is possible there is a bug in this calculation. When I get a chance I'll try to reproduce the values from your horizon limits file and the sky position captured in your screen shot. I am not sure I have all of the information though as you only provided the ASCOM log and not APCC or PNT files

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Eric Weiner
Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2021 11:56 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Odd APCC-PRO behavior with horizon limits "Time before limit reached"

Ray,

It's not obvious to me how that could occur without some other artifact. I'm open to suggestions from those
with computer science backgrounds. To me it seems like APCC did the calculation wrong at some point, and
I just happened to see it before changing tabs. I could be totally wrong of course. Also, I'm fairly certain that I
switched back and forth between the Meridian and Horizon tabs when I first noticed the horizon limit error. I
wanted to see if the Meridian limit was being reported correctly, which it was. I can't be certain because it was
getting late (and I had a few drinks over Christmas day), but I think the "correction" occurred when the limit
was reached. I just happened to be looking at the Site tab when that happened. The 23' 59" time remaining in
the screenshot was taken when I first noticed the error, so easily a couple tens of minutes before the
correction occurred.

For completeness, the horizon countdown timer was operating when it was displaying the incorrect "time
before limit reached." It wasn't just a static screen, and we're talking a several hour delta between what was
displayed and what the actual limit was. In hindsight I wish I would have let it run out to see if it triggered the
"Stop Tracking" command. I don't usually monitor an imaging session, so I have no idea if this has happened
before or if it was just a one-off fluke. If the situation recreates itself I'll let the limit timer expire to see what
happens.

I was paying attention this time simply because I was exercising a fully automated N.I.N.A. advanced profile
for the first time, including a Dec Arc model (Awesome plug-in Dale, thanks!) and Smart Meridian Flip. The
APCC GUI was sometimes minimized, and sometimes not. It's set to stay up front when not minimized, so
there were plenty of opportunities for the screen to refresh itself. I was hours into the run before I noticed it.

As a sidebar, I highly recommend N.I.N.A. for those who haven't tried the latest incarnation. It has come a
long way, very elegant. I was a SGP user for several years before trying N.I.N.A. 2.0 after reading comments
on it from other AP owners. The versatility the advanced profile sequencer provides is really quite impressive.

I'll keep an eye on this moving forward.

Thanks,
Eric


Dale Ghent
 

Could this be a date/time issue on the mount? Do you have a keypad attached to the mount, and is it in EXT mode or not? Could its time be off?

On Dec 26, 2021, at 14:56, Eric Weiner <weinere@...> wrote:

Ray,

It's not obvious to me how that could occur without some other artifact. I'm open to suggestions from those with computer science backgrounds. To me it seems like APCC did the calculation wrong at some point, and I just happened to see it before changing tabs. I could be totally wrong of course. Also, I'm fairly certain that I switched back and forth between the Meridian and Horizon tabs when I first noticed the horizon limit error. I wanted to see if the Meridian limit was being reported correctly, which it was. I can't be certain because it was getting late (and I had a few drinks over Christmas day), but I think the "correction" occurred when the limit was reached. I just happened to be looking at the Site tab when that happened. The 23' 59" time remaining in the screenshot was taken when I first noticed the error, so easily a couple tens of minutes before the correction occurred.

For completeness, the horizon countdown timer was operating when it was displaying the incorrect "time before limit reached." It wasn't just a static screen, and we're talking a several hour delta between what was displayed and what the actual limit was. In hindsight I wish I would have let it run out to see if it triggered the "Stop Tracking" command. I don't usually monitor an imaging session, so I have no idea if this has happened before or if it was just a one-off fluke. If the situation recreates itself I'll let the limit timer expire to see what happens.

I was paying attention this time simply because I was exercising a fully automated N.I.N.A. advanced profile for the first time, including a Dec Arc model (Awesome plug-in Dale, thanks!) and Smart Meridian Flip. The APCC GUI was sometimes minimized, and sometimes not. It's set to stay up front when not minimized, so there were plenty of opportunities for the screen to refresh itself. I was hours into the run before I noticed it.

As a sidebar, I highly recommend N.I.N.A. for those who haven't tried the latest incarnation. It has come a long way, very elegant. I was a SGP user for several years before trying N.I.N.A. 2.0 after reading comments on it from other AP owners. The versatility the advanced profile sequencer provides is really quite impressive.

I'll keep an eye on this moving forward.

Thanks,
Eric


Eric Weiner
 

Ray,

My apologies.  This was the first time that I've submitted a log for review.  The place where I had the log zipper shortcut was only pulling up the ASCOM logs.  Using the link in APCC I was able to zip the rest of what I think you need.  I only included logs which bound the time in question.

Eric


Eric Weiner
 

Dale,

A fair question.  Yes, I do have a keypad.  Yes, it is in EXT mode.  The mount was without question initialized from APCC.  Plus, I did indeed check the time and offset on the keypad.  They are correct and match my PC clock.  I'm not sure that it matters so long as you're in EXT mode and init from APCC, but the site info on the keypad also matches the site info in APCC.

In case you missed it, kudos for the A-P Tools plugin for N.I.N.A! Works great!  I also appreciate the time and effort you put into the documentation on your website.  Very helpful, thank you. 

Eric


Dale Ghent
 

On Dec 26, 2021, at 16:57, Eric Weiner <weinere@...> wrote:

Dale,

A fair question. Yes, I do have a keypad. Yes, it is in EXT mode. The mount was without question initialized from APCC. Plus, I did indeed check the time and offset on the keypad. They are correct and match my PC clock. I'm not sure that it matters so long as you're in EXT mode and init from APCC, but the site info on the keypad also matches the site info in APCC.
Ah yes, good. EXT mode on the keypad means that you are likely initializing the mount from your PC, and I presume it's good on its clock.

In case you missed it, kudos for the A-P Tools plugin for N.I.N.A! Works great! I also appreciate the time and effort you put into the documentation on your website. Very helpful, thank you.
You're welcome! I'm really happy to hear when people find it useful. The Tools plugin got a minor update yesterday so be sure to update if you also update to Beta 20 of NINA 2.0.

/dale


Eric Weiner
 

Also a fair comment.  Yes, I keep my pc's clock synchronized with NIST in Boulder.

Thanks for the heads-up on the updates.  I'll grab them today.