Newbie needs APPM software advice #APCC


Jil Tardiff
 

Hi all,

New and very excited owner of a 1100GTO (no encoders) and getting ready to start.

Unfortunately (?) with this big step up in mount I decided it was time to migrate from ASIAIR and so I'm in the process of changing my entire setup including moving to a NUC with Win 10 and, importantly still struggling with what imaging suite to land on (NINA vs Voyager at present, leaning towards Voyager, but not set in stone).  So lots of things in flux, but I'm trying to not change too many variables at once.

Basic question is this: I really want to use APPM though I'm a bit concerned re: the learning curve.  Regardless, my issue is that I do not own the requisite plate solver.  So that's another purchase and I am just hung up on which way to go.  I would appreciate some input from users.  

The options from my perspective are:

1. Pinpoint
2. SkyX

I know I could go with SGP, but I am definitely not going to use it for my imaging / sequencing software. So it seems rather cumbersome to use it alongside either NINA or Voyager.  If this is not a big deal or an unnecessarily cumbersome approach , please let me know and I will re-consider.

Obviously I would prefer to keep the costs down but that is not the primary driver here.

And please, I know this discussion can devolve into the lack of support for other options like ASTAP.  I'd appreciate not having that issue raised at this point, I'd really just like to get started. 

Any and all advice appreciated!

Jil


 

HI Jil

i have excellent results with Pinpoint. we do unguided imaging at 0.63" so APPM is vital for what we do

yes it costs a bit and it's not free like ASTAP, but given your requirements i think that is a good option for you

ASTAP will be added to APPM in the future (from what I know), so consider that upgrade path as well


Brian

On Thu, Apr 15, 2021 at 12:20 PM Jil Tardiff <jtardiff@...> wrote:
Hi all,

New and very excited owner of a 1100GTO (no encoders) and getting ready to start.

Unfortunately (?) with this big step up in mount I decided it was time to migrate from ASIAIR and so I'm in the process of changing my entire setup including moving to a NUC with Win 10 and, importantly still struggling with what imaging suite to land on (NINA vs Voyager at present, leaning towards Voyager, but not set in stone).  So lots of things in flux, but I'm trying to not change too many variables at once.

Basic question is this: I really want to use APPM though I'm a bit concerned re: the learning curve.  Regardless, my issue is that I do not own the requisite plate solver.  So that's another purchase and I am just hung up on which way to go.  I would appreciate some input from users.  

The options from my perspective are:

1. Pinpoint
2. SkyX

I know I could go with SGP, but I am definitely not going to use it for my imaging / sequencing software. So it seems rather cumbersome to use it alongside either NINA or Voyager.  If this is not a big deal or an unnecessarily cumbersome approach , please let me know and I will re-consider.

Obviously I would prefer to keep the costs down but that is not the primary driver here.

And please, I know this discussion can devolve into the lack of support for other options like ASTAP.  I'd appreciate not having that issue raised at this point, I'd really just like to get started. 

Any and all advice appreciated!

Jil



--
Brian 



Brian Valente


ap@CaptivePhotons.com
 

I have TSX as part of a Paramount MyT, and am waiting on an AP1100 and wondering about the same thing, but I would strongly suggest that TSX is like swatting a fly with a sledge hammer.   The plate solving in TSX works very nice and fast, and tPoint and polar alignment are some of the best parts of it.  But it’s like 5% of it.  The rest of TSX is loved by some, but to me it’s very old software, which has not been well integrated and updated.  It’s like engineering software from the 1990’s, not well designed GUI software from the 2020’s.   For me I have reached a peace agreement with it and can make it work well, but my first couple months it would crash time after time, give bad results because I didn’t re-enter the same data 5 times I only did it 4 times (you won’t believe how often you have to re-enter image scale, rather than just entering your focal length and ratio in your imaging profile – which you also enter).

 

So from my personal experience I’m going to try anything else that’s available before I would re-purchase MyT for the AP1100.

 

I’m a fan of NINA, though Voyager is very similar in some ways.  I’m hopeful ASTAP will be supported by the time I get mine, but my fallback plan is just to buy Pinpoint.

 

Linwood

 

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Valente via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2021 3:24 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Newbie needs APPM software advice #APCC

 

HI Jil

 

i have excellent results with Pinpoint. we do unguided imaging at 0.63" so APPM is vital for what we do

 

yes it costs a bit and it's not free like ASTAP, but given your requirements i think that is a good option for you

 

ASTAP will be added to APPM in the future (from what I know), so consider that upgrade path as well

 

 

Brian

 

On Thu, Apr 15, 2021 at 12:20 PM Jil Tardiff <jtardiff@...> wrote:

Hi all,

New and very excited owner of a 1100GTO (no encoders) and getting ready to start.

Unfortunately (?) with this big step up in mount I decided it was time to migrate from ASIAIR and so I'm in the process of changing my entire setup including moving to a NUC with Win 10 and, importantly still struggling with what imaging suite to land on (NINA vs Voyager at present, leaning towards Voyager, but not set in stone).  So lots of things in flux, but I'm trying to not change too many variables at once.

Basic question is this: I really want to use APPM though I'm a bit concerned re: the learning curve.  Regardless, my issue is that I do not own the requisite plate solver.  So that's another purchase and I am just hung up on which way to go.  I would appreciate some input from users.  

The options from my perspective are:

1. Pinpoint
2. SkyX

I know I could go with SGP, but I am definitely not going to use it for my imaging / sequencing software. So it seems rather cumbersome to use it alongside either NINA or Voyager.  If this is not a big deal or an unnecessarily cumbersome approach , please let me know and I will re-consider.

Obviously I would prefer to keep the costs down but that is not the primary driver here.

And please, I know this discussion can devolve into the lack of support for other options like ASTAP.  I'd appreciate not having that issue raised at this point, I'd really just like to get started. 

Any and all advice appreciated!

Jil


 

--

Brian 

 

 

 

Brian Valente


Marcelo Figueroa
 


APPM is very easy to use, I use it with SGP/ASTAP without any problem. I guess with Pinpoint it should be no different.
 
However I am not sure if the investment in APCC Pro/APPM is worth it for a mount without encoders, that is, if the modeling to be really effective needs encoders or not.
 
Here the AP folks are best suited to answer. 
 


Roland Christen
 

APPM and all its functions can be used with the 1100 non-encoder mount. All you need to do is make a good PE curve using PEMPro and you should be set for some decent unguided imaging. PEMPro came with the mount.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Marcelo Figueroa via groups.io <marfig1970@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Apr 15, 2021 3:27 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Newbie needs APPM software advice #APCC


APPM is very easy to use, I use it with SGP/ASTAP without any problem. I guess with Pinpoint it should be no different.
 
However I am not sure if the investment in APCC Pro/APPM is worth it for a mount without encoders, that is, if the modeling to be really effective needs encoders or not.
 
Here the AP folks are best suited to answer. 
 

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Jil Tardiff
 

Thank you Brian and Linwood - exactly the info / reassurance I was looking for, Pinpoint it is.   Especially appreciate your insight re: TSX, Linwood - it seemed like overkill for my use, but wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything.



Jil


Jil Tardiff
 

Roland,  Marcelo brings up a good point.  My impression was there was some benefit to building a model even when guiding or without encoders, is this not true?  I will likely add encoders at some point in a year or two.

Thanks,

Jil


marsh.family
 

Just a clarification, the factory PE curve can be improved upon?

 

Thanks,

 

Chris

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Roland Christen via groups.io
Sent: April 15, 2021 5:07 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Newbie needs APPM software advice #APCC

 

APPM and all its functions can be used with the 1100 non-encoder mount. All you need to do is make a good PE curve using PEMPro and you should be set for some decent unguided imaging. PEMPro came with the mount.

 

Rolando

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Marcelo Figueroa via groups.io <marfig1970@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Apr 15, 2021 3:27 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Newbie needs APPM software advice #APCC

 

APPM is very easy to use, I use it with SGP/ASTAP without any problem. I guess with Pinpoint it should be no different.

 

However I am not sure if the investment in APCC Pro/APPM is worth it for a mount without encoders, that is, if the modeling to be really effective needs encoders or not.

 

Here the AP folks are best suited to answer. 

 


--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Christopher Erickson
 

The factory curve is a perfect fit when the mount comes from the factory. After a number of years, the gears will polish up a bit more and the curve should be re-done.


-Christopher Erickson
Observatory engineer
Waikoloa, HI 96738
www.summitkinetics.com
   

On Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 3:57 PM marsh.family <marsh.family@...> wrote:

Just a clarification, the factory PE curve can be improved upon?

 

Thanks,

 

Chris

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Roland Christen via groups.io
Sent: April 15, 2021 5:07 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Newbie needs APPM software advice #APCC

 

APPM and all its functions can be used with the 1100 non-encoder mount. All you need to do is make a good PE curve using PEMPro and you should be set for some decent unguided imaging. PEMPro came with the mount.

 

Rolando

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Marcelo Figueroa via groups.io <marfig1970@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Apr 15, 2021 3:27 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Newbie needs APPM software advice #APCC

 

APPM is very easy to use, I use it with SGP/ASTAP without any problem. I guess with Pinpoint it should be no different.

 

However I am not sure if the investment in APCC Pro/APPM is worth it for a mount without encoders, that is, if the modeling to be really effective needs encoders or not.

 

Here the AP folks are best suited to answer. 

 


--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


marsh.family
 

Thanks, that's good to understand. 



Sent from my Galaxy


-------- Original message --------
From: Christopher Erickson <christopher.k.erickson@...>
Date: 2021-04-15 10:11 p.m. (GMT-05:00)
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Newbie needs APPM software advice #APCC

The factory curve is a perfect fit when the mount comes from the factory. After a number of years, the gears will polish up a bit more and the curve should be re-done.


-Christopher Erickson
Observatory engineer
Waikoloa, HI 96738
www.summitkinetics.com
   

On Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 3:57 PM marsh.family <marsh.family@...> wrote:

Just a clarification, the factory PE curve can be improved upon?

 

Thanks,

 

Chris

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Roland Christen via groups.io
Sent: April 15, 2021 5:07 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Newbie needs APPM software advice #APCC

 

APPM and all its functions can be used with the 1100 non-encoder mount. All you need to do is make a good PE curve using PEMPro and you should be set for some decent unguided imaging. PEMPro came with the mount.

 

Rolando

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Marcelo Figueroa via groups.io <marfig1970@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Apr 15, 2021 3:27 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Newbie needs APPM software advice #APCC

 

APPM is very easy to use, I use it with SGP/ASTAP without any problem. I guess with Pinpoint it should be no different.

 

However I am not sure if the investment in APCC Pro/APPM is worth it for a mount without encoders, that is, if the modeling to be really effective needs encoders or not.

 

Here the AP folks are best suited to answer. 

 


--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Don Anderson
 

I use Pinpoint with MaximDL6.11 and The Sky6. I have had this software suite for many years and I know it is old  but it is solid stable and just works. 

Don Anderson


On Thursday, April 15, 2021, 01:20:46 p.m. MDT, Jil Tardiff <jtardiff@...> wrote:


Hi all,

New and very excited owner of a 1100GTO (no encoders) and getting ready to start.

Unfortunately (?) with this big step up in mount I decided it was time to migrate from ASIAIR and so I'm in the process of changing my entire setup including moving to a NUC with Win 10 and, importantly still struggling with what imaging suite to land on (NINA vs Voyager at present, leaning towards Voyager, but not set in stone).  So lots of things in flux, but I'm trying to not change too many variables at once.

Basic question is this: I really want to use APPM though I'm a bit concerned re: the learning curve.  Regardless, my issue is that I do not own the requisite plate solver.  So that's another purchase and I am just hung up on which way to go.  I would appreciate some input from users.  

The options from my perspective are:

1. Pinpoint
2. SkyX

I know I could go with SGP, but I am definitely not going to use it for my imaging / sequencing software. So it seems rather cumbersome to use it alongside either NINA or Voyager.  If this is not a big deal or an unnecessarily cumbersome approach , please let me know and I will re-consider.

Obviously I would prefer to keep the costs down but that is not the primary driver here.

And please, I know this discussion can devolve into the lack of support for other options like ASTAP.  I'd appreciate not having that issue raised at this point, I'd really just like to get started. 

Any and all advice appreciated!

Jil


Jil Tardiff
 

Thanks, Don.  At this stage  I am a huge fan of things that just work (a sign of aging?) , but this is exactly why I skipped all the way from an EQ6R-Pro to the 1100GTO.  The last thing I want to do on a nice night is "fiddle" with my mount...

JT


Don Anderson
 

I hear ya!

Don Anderson


On Thursday, April 15, 2021, 09:09:48 p.m. MDT, Jil Tardiff <jtardiff@...> wrote:


Thanks, Don.  At this stage  I am a huge fan of things that just work (a sign of aging?) , but this is exactly why I skipped all the way from an EQ6R-Pro to the 1100GTO.  The last thing I want to do on a nice night is "fiddle" with my mount...

JT


Don Anderson
 

Software packages are no different than hardware. One has to decide what they want to accomplish with this hobby and get the equipment and software that does the job. It's so easy for the tools to become an end in themselves.

Don Anderson


On Thursday, April 15, 2021, 09:09:48 p.m. MDT, Jil Tardiff <jtardiff@...> wrote:


Thanks, Don.  At this stage  I am a huge fan of things that just work (a sign of aging?) , but this is exactly why I skipped all the way from an EQ6R-Pro to the 1100GTO.  The last thing I want to do on a nice night is "fiddle" with my mount...

JT


Worsel
 

Jil

I wanted to progress towards un-guided imaging...as a way to just make things work more simply.  I upgraded to APPC Pro, which includes APPM, specifically to achieve this as a lower cost alternative to encoders, which would also have met my objective at a higher cost.  I know have a model that allows me to image un-guided for up to 15 minutes most of the time (I can't quantify "most").  The additional cost of encoders that would mean un-guided ALL the time is not economical.  To be honest, I have not met the objective of 'simplify,' since I still have the guiding equipment and software available, when needed.

That said, I do know that the model improves goto and tracking at a low cost.  So, I am still glad I went the APPM route.

AS far as which software to pair with APPM, I tried the trial versions of both SGP and PinPoint.  At the time a couple years ago, their costs were similar and more than Maxim.  I chose SGP, since it had several plate solving engines available.  I do not use its imaging functions except during model building.  My logic for this is no longer valid (change in cameras, etc).   I am considering PinPoint again, but am also keeping an eye on when Ray is able to integrate plate-solving into APPM  .  This is not an easy enhancement, since APPM is not meant to be an imaging application.

Bryan


Jil Tardiff
 

Exactly - I'm an experimental biophysicist by trade, and one of my senior grad students adores fiddly new gear.  He now knows that before he even tries to talk me into buying something for the lab he better have a darn good reason for why it will move things forward without making everyone stay up nights messing with it or having to learn yet another proprietary piece of software. 

When it comes to my beloved astro hobby,  I have learned to really appreciate fine gear (OK, I've always loved mechanical excellence)  and well-executed, coupled software. Probably why I zeroed in on AP. Oh, and outstanding support is an enormous benefit. 

Jil


Roland Christen
 

If the mount has been used a lot and is more than a year old, the PE has probably changed shape and should be re-measured. Gears wear in over time.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: marsh.family <marsh.family@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Apr 15, 2021 8:56 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Newbie needs APPM software advice #APCC

Just a clarification, the factory PE curve can be improved upon?
 
Thanks,
 
Chris
 
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Roland Christen via groups.io
Sent: April 15, 2021 5:07 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Newbie needs APPM software advice #APCC
 
APPM and all its functions can be used with the 1100 non-encoder mount. All you need to do is make a good PE curve using PEMPro and you should be set for some decent unguided imaging. PEMPro came with the mount.
 
Rolando
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Marcelo Figueroa via groups.io <marfig1970@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Apr 15, 2021 3:27 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Newbie needs APPM software advice #APCC
 
APPM is very easy to use, I use it with SGP/ASTAP without any problem. I guess with Pinpoint it should be no different.
 
However I am not sure if the investment in APCC Pro/APPM is worth it for a mount without encoders, that is, if the modeling to be really effective needs encoders or not.
 
Here the AP folks are best suited to answer. 
 

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Joseph Beyer
 

Jil,

Like everything your experience will depend on your entire setup.  Given my sky conditions from my backyard I'm limited to 3-5 minute subs with a DSLR camera.  I wanted to try unguided imaging with my late model Mach1 using APPM and it works very well.  I can easily take 3 minutes images across the sky and maintain pinpoint stars.  On nights with good seeing 5 minute subs are similar.  Setting up and running APPM is actually quite easy.  There are only a few steps needed to get things working so trouble shooting is simple.  It took more time to get SGP up and running with it than it did APPM.  I'm confident in saying you'll appreciate all the features and improved accuracy the program provides.

Joe


Mike Dodd
 

I must have slept through the class -- what is APPM? I know about APCC, and an considering that myself for my 1200 mount. But I don't know anything about APPM.

--- Mike


KHursh
 

A-P Point Mapping.