Mach 2 and Epsilon 160ed First Light!


Chris White
 

I'm excited to have finally gotten some data this summer!  Below is the writeup I did on Astrobin.  You can visit there for a high resolution image.  This was my first time doing unguided imaging, and the Mach 2 handled it like a champ!  I dont think I'll ever go back to a guidescope again.  Sooo nice having AE! 

This mount is an absolute work of art.  It's beautiful and I am amazed every time I get out with it.  It's so quiet and cable management is awesome.  AP really has outdone themselves with this mount.  Kudos!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

https://astrob.in/heinco/0/

Here is my first light with the e160ed.  It's been a really fun process of building this scope up and dialing it in.  I upgraded the stock focuser to an OPTEC LEO, learned how to collimate with the Tak tools and have been working on dialing in spacing and image train tilt with the Octopi and NINA Hocus Focus. 

I've attached two images, one is a crop for composition.  I just like this tighter crop better.  The other is so you may evaluate the entire field if desired.  Only the dither edges have been removed.  Otherwise it is full frame at full resolution.

I used a custom blend for the color palette: 
R=.4*Ha + .6*Sii
G=.4*Oiii + .3*Ha + .3*Sii
B=Oiii

This is only about 4.5 hours of data and it was taken during the full moon.  Despite this, I am really pleased with the detail and contrast that this little scope was able to achieve!  This scope is going to be a real winner and I'm excited to make the final tweaks on field correction and suck down some more photons!

This was also a first light for the Mach 2.  Imaging was unguided with a Dec Arc Model.

https://astrob.in/heinco/0/


midmoastro
 

On Mon, Aug 15, 2022 at 03:51 PM, Chris White wrote:
https://astrob.in/heinco/0/
Nice work, Chris. I am familiar with this work of art and agree, I will likely never go back to guided imaging.
Todd


Andrea Lucchetti
 

Wow, first light!

Il giorno mar 16 ago 2022 alle 00:03 midmoastro <teche70@...> ha scritto:
On Mon, Aug 15, 2022 at 03:51 PM, Chris White wrote:
https://astrob.in/heinco/0/
Nice work, Chris. I am familiar with this work of art and agree, I will likely never go back to guided imaging.
Todd


Terry Martin
 

Really nice Chris,
And I couldn’t agree more about the Mach2; it is an absolutely incredible mount.  I’ve also gone down the same path of going unguided and the Mach2 just shines, and I’ve also been trying to chase down data on the Lion Nebula the last couple of weeks, but with a FSQ-106.  All the equipment is working great, but the skies have not been cooperating.
Terry


Bill Long
 

Great job. The deadly combo of the Epsilon 160ED and Mach 2 strikes again! 😁



From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Chris White <chris.white@...>
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2022 1:51 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: [ap-gto] Mach 2 and Epsilon 160ed First Light!
 
I'm excited to have finally gotten some data this summer!  Below is the writeup I did on Astrobin.  You can visit there for a high resolution image.  This was my first time doing unguided imaging, and the Mach 2 handled it like a champ!  I dont think I'll ever go back to a guidescope again.  Sooo nice having AE! 

This mount is an absolute work of art.  It's beautiful and I am amazed every time I get out with it.  It's so quiet and cable management is awesome.  AP really has outdone themselves with this mount.  Kudos!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

https://astrob.in/heinco/0/

Here is my first light with the e160ed.  It's been a really fun process of building this scope up and dialing it in.  I upgraded the stock focuser to an OPTEC LEO, learned how to collimate with the Tak tools and have been working on dialing in spacing and image train tilt with the Octopi and NINA Hocus Focus. 

I've attached two images, one is a crop for composition.  I just like this tighter crop better.  The other is so you may evaluate the entire field if desired.  Only the dither edges have been removed.  Otherwise it is full frame at full resolution.

I used a custom blend for the color palette: 
R=.4*Ha + .6*Sii
G=.4*Oiii + .3*Ha + .3*Sii
B=Oiii

This is only about 4.5 hours of data and it was taken during the full moon.  Despite this, I am really pleased with the detail and contrast that this little scope was able to achieve!  This scope is going to be a real winner and I'm excited to make the final tweaks on field correction and suck down some more photons!

This was also a first light for the Mach 2.  Imaging was unguided with a Dec Arc Model.

https://astrob.in/heinco/0/


Arvind
 

Congrats on getting the gear and the great first light!

On Mon, Aug 15, 2022 at 14:40 Bill Long <bill@...> wrote:
Great job. The deadly combo of the Epsilon 160ED and Mach 2 strikes again! 😁



From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Chris White <chris.white@...>
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2022 1:51 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: [ap-gto] Mach 2 and Epsilon 160ed First Light!
 
I'm excited to have finally gotten some data this summer!  Below is the writeup I did on Astrobin.  You can visit there for a high resolution image.  This was my first time doing unguided imaging, and the Mach 2 handled it like a champ!  I dont think I'll ever go back to a guidescope again.  Sooo nice having AE! 

This mount is an absolute work of art.  It's beautiful and I am amazed every time I get out with it.  It's so quiet and cable management is awesome.  AP really has outdone themselves with this mount.  Kudos!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

https://astrob.in/heinco/0/

Here is my first light with the e160ed.  It's been a really fun process of building this scope up and dialing it in.  I upgraded the stock focuser to an OPTEC LEO, learned how to collimate with the Tak tools and have been working on dialing in spacing and image train tilt with the Octopi and NINA Hocus Focus. 

I've attached two images, one is a crop for composition.  I just like this tighter crop better.  The other is so you may evaluate the entire field if desired.  Only the dither edges have been removed.  Otherwise it is full frame at full resolution.

I used a custom blend for the color palette: 
R=.4*Ha + .6*Sii
G=.4*Oiii + .3*Ha + .3*Sii
B=Oiii

This is only about 4.5 hours of data and it was taken during the full moon.  Despite this, I am really pleased with the detail and contrast that this little scope was able to achieve!  This scope is going to be a real winner and I'm excited to make the final tweaks on field correction and suck down some more photons!

This was also a first light for the Mach 2.  Imaging was unguided with a Dec Arc Model.

https://astrob.in/heinco/0/


Peter Nagy
 

Awesome!!!!!

Peter


Chris White
 

On Mon, Aug 15, 2022 at 05:03 PM, midmoastro wrote:
Nice work, Chris. I am familiar with this work of art and agree, I will likely never go back to guided imaging.
Todd
Thank you Todd!  I loved my 900gto as well, but when my name came up I took a chance. Very happy I did. I can't imagine ever needing more in a mount. 


Chris White
 

On Mon, Aug 15, 2022 at 05:15 PM, Terry Martin wrote:
Really nice Chris,
And I couldn’t agree more about the Mach2; it is an absolutely incredible mount.  I’ve also gone down the same path of going unguided and the Mach2 just shines, and I’ve also been trying to chase down data on the Lion Nebula the last couple of weeks, but with a FSQ-106.  All the equipment is working great, but the skies have not been cooperating.
Terry
Thanks Terry!  Sorry about your skies. Mine have been pretty terrible for the last couple of years. My main motivation for a fast scope!  Plus I love widefield. Hope you get some soon!


Chris White
 

Thanks Bill!  Appreciate you being the guinea pig on this one. Not a small risk to buy the scope and upgrades and time!  I enjoyed being able to take your experience and fast track mine. :-)


Chris White
 

On Mon, Aug 15, 2022 at 06:13 PM, Arvind wrote:
Congrats on getting the gear and the great first light!
Thanks Arvind! 


Bill Long
 

No problem. I went into the venture with the assumption that it would be a long process to get perfected. Now that I'm done with all of that, I'm looking forward to upcoming projects with the scope.



From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Chris White <chris.white@...>
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2022 4:46 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach 2 and Epsilon 160ed First Light!
 
Thanks Bill!  Appreciate you being the guinea pig on this one. Not a small risk to buy the scope and upgrades and time!  I enjoyed being able to take your experience and fast track mine. :-)


Patrick Sparkman
 

Bill and Chris.  Thanks for openly sharing your images and work to get a full frame sensor working with the e-160.  Looking at your images, the corners look better than my FSQ106 with the same full-frame sensor.  I have dialed out the tilt as you have, but the problem is the field curvature causes the stars in the corner to show blue fringing pointing towards the center.  That does not look as bad with the images that you are both getting with e-160.  Can you comment on how much vignetting light fall-off you get with the e-160?


Bill Long
 

No problem, there is about 40-45% light fall off in the extreme corners, this flat had some tilt left when it was taken, but this should help you:




From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Patrick Sparkman via groups.io <psparkman@...>
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2022 7:41 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach 2 and Epsilon 160ed First Light!
 
Bill and Chris.  Thanks for openly sharing your images and work to get a full frame sensor working with the e-160.  Looking at your images, the corners look better than my FSQ106 with the same full-frame sensor.  I have dialed out the tilt as you have, but the problem is the field curvature causes the stars in the corner to show blue fringing pointing towards the center.  That does not look as bad with the images that you are both getting with e-160.  Can you comment on how much vignetting light fall-off you get with the e-160?


Chris White
 
Edited

Patrick,

I dont think the issue you are seeing is caused by field curvature. I have seen that with other fsq106 images. I think it's just inherent with that older optical design paired with tiny pixels and large chip. (Maybe that's field curvature with how colors are managed?)

I think some of those fsq scopes can also have the effect exacerbated by any lens collimation error. 

Don't you just come to focus with that scope?  You can't adjust spacing at all unless you are using a reducer, right?

If you look at the spot diagram it looks like blue separates from red and green as you move off axis. Is this what you are talking about?


Patrick Sparkman
 

Yes Chris, you are correct on all points.  There is no backspacing that is adjustable, and you just come to focus.  Also, looking at the spot diagrams I get exactly what they show at 22mm.  The blue spreads out from the red and green.

The vignetting on the e-160 is much worse though.  My FSQ only has 9% vignetting at the corners of a FF.


Bill Long
 

The FSQ is much slower at f5 vs f3.3. Faster you go the more light fall off can occur. I haven't found it to be a problem at all. Perfectly calibrates out.



From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Patrick Sparkman via groups.io <psparkman@...>
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2022 8:29 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach 2 and Epsilon 160ed First Light!
 
Yes Chris, you are correct on all points.  There is no backspacing that is adjustable, and you just come to focus.  Also, looking at the spot diagrams I get exactly what they show at 22mm.  The blue spreads out from the red and green.

The vignetting on the e-160 is much worse though.  My FSQ only has 9% vignetting at the corners of a FF.


Roland Christen
 

There are several difference between refractor and reflector optics. 

With a reflector, RC or not, you need a very complex field corrector. The elements end up with very strong curves that must be very carefully integrated into a stable mechanical design. 

There is a tradeoff between central obstruction vignetting and edge of field vignetting. The larger the central obstruction, the lower is the falloff of light in the corners. If you want zero vignetting in the corners, you will find that the central obstruction exceeds 50% by diameter (typically 60% will get you no vignetting). But then the overall F-ratio is no longer F3.5 because the system light grasp has been reduced by 25 - 30%. However, you do get the advantage of no lateral color error or on-axis chromatic aberration.

Refractors can be made essentially color-free, but again the lateral color is more difficult to control. Can be done with careful design and use of more expensive ED-SD glass in the rear corrector/flattener. You also can make the system with no vignetting by making the focuser and rear elements large (which of course adds weight and cost and gets some people to whine about that ~:^))

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick Sparkman via groups.io <psparkman@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Aug 16, 2022 10:29 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach 2 and Epsilon 160ed First Light!

Yes Chris, you are correct on all points.  There is no backspacing that is adjustable, and you just come to focus.  Also, looking at the spot diagrams I get exactly what they show at 22mm.  The blue spreads out from the red and green.

The vignetting on the e-160 is much worse though.  My FSQ only has 9% vignetting at the corners of a FF.

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Roland Christen
 

Your 160 is not really F3.3. You have to subtract out the central obstruction light loss. You also need to subtract the light loss of the two mirror coatings which can amount to around 5% for each reflection (10% or more total depending on how old the coatings are and how much exposure to the elements). 

The corners are most likely operating at around F6, not F3.3 or anywhere close to that. Your main advantage is the larger aperture of the 160mm mirror.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Long <bill@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Tue, Aug 16, 2022 10:39 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach 2 and Epsilon 160ed First Light!

The FSQ is much slower at f5 vs f3.3. Faster you go the more light fall off can occur. I haven't found it to be a problem at all. Perfectly calibrates out.



From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Patrick Sparkman via groups.io <psparkman@...>
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2022 8:29 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach 2 and Epsilon 160ed First Light!
 
Yes Chris, you are correct on all points.  There is no backspacing that is adjustable, and you just come to focus.  Also, looking at the spot diagrams I get exactly what they show at 22mm.  The blue spreads out from the red and green.

The vignetting on the e-160 is much worse though.  My FSQ only has 9% vignetting at the corners of a FF.

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Bill Long
 

Interesting, thanks for the info. I always learn new stuff here. 🙂 


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011@...>
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2022 8:56 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach 2 and Epsilon 160ed First Light!
 
Your 160 is not really F3.3. You have to subtract out the central obstruction light loss. You also need to subtract the light loss of the two mirror coatings which can amount to around 5% for each reflection (10% or more total depending on how old the coatings are and how much exposure to the elements). 

The corners are most likely operating at around F6, not F3.3 or anywhere close to that. Your main advantage is the larger aperture of the 160mm mirror.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Long <bill@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Tue, Aug 16, 2022 10:39 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach 2 and Epsilon 160ed First Light!

The FSQ is much slower at f5 vs f3.3. Faster you go the more light fall off can occur. I haven't found it to be a problem at all. Perfectly calibrates out.



From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Patrick Sparkman via groups.io <psparkman@...>
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2022 8:29 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach 2 and Epsilon 160ed First Light!
 
Yes Chris, you are correct on all points.  There is no backspacing that is adjustable, and you just come to focus.  Also, looking at the spot diagrams I get exactly what they show at 22mm.  The blue spreads out from the red and green.

The vignetting on the e-160 is much worse though.  My FSQ only has 9% vignetting at the corners of a FF.

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics