Mach2 with TEC180 for visual


Shailesh Trivedi
 

I am mostly an imaging person and now wanting to go visual; I just received a Mach2 and was wondering if I can load up my TEC 180 for visual. Any insights?

Shailesh


Roland Christen
 

I think that's stretching things. The mount will hold the weight but it will be somewhat boingy.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Shailesh Trivedi <strivedi@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Mon, Oct 11, 2021 12:16 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] Mach2 with TEC180 for visual

I am mostly an imaging person and now wanting to go visual; I just received a Mach2 and was wondering if I can load up my TEC 180 for visual. Any insights?

Shailesh

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Shailesh Trivedi
 

Roland,

Yes i know the 180 has a huge moment arm. When you say boingy is it during slews (which I can reduce) or in general due to the long moment arm?

Shailesh


Roland Christen
 

It will bounce around when you bump it lightly. I would recommend a 1600 mount if you want stability at high powers. I have my 175 on a 1600 mount and it's just about perfect for that scope.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Shailesh Trivedi <strivedi@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Mon, Oct 11, 2021 1:05 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 with TEC180 for visual

Roland,

Yes i know the 180 has a huge moment arm. When you say boingy is it during slews (which I can reduce) or in general due to the long moment arm?

Shailesh

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


fernandorivera3
 

Weight of the tube is OK but the main concern is moment arm & will the scope be exposed to breezy conditions along with careful balancing. 

Fernando


fernandorivera3
 

The 1100 GTO would be a better option than the Mach 2 for the TEC 180 FL

Fernando


Jeff B
 

For a bit of perspective, I have had several AP mount and refractor combinations that have worked just fine for visual use.  By "fine" I mean the ability to easily and accurately focus at high power without a lot of juggling in the image (interestingly, a small bit of slow back and forth in the image actually seems to make accurate focusing easier for me at times).

My Mach 1 with a Losmandy HD tripod was "good" with my old AP 178 F9, which is rather light weight for its aperture but a long moment arm.

My AP1100 with the HD tripod was a "very good" support for the 178 F9 but "ok to good"  with the TEC 200ED (F9, and about 63 pounds fully configured with dovetail, aft ring with 60mm F8 finder, counterpoise weight system and bino-viewers)

My AP900 was VG to excellent supporting 178 F9 and G to VG with the 200ED (actually, I was very impressed at how well it handled the scope).  But this was with the AP900 installed on a fabricated steel pier, filled with sand and bolted to a concrete pad. 

My AP1200 is just flat out excellent with the TEC 200ED.  Sure, if I bump it hard enough it will go through a couple of highly damped  cycles, but its system "Q" factor is of such high quality, there is NO vibration when focusing even up to 500X.  And honestly, it is the most satisfying visual scope/mount system I have ever used.  It too is bolted down with the steel pier.

Our County Parks Department's observatory has a 220 F12 achromat riding on another AP1200 (again bolted to a sand filled steel pier).  The OTA with all accessories and bino-viewer, tips the scales at 80 pounds and is a solid VG to E.

Now my experience has also been that for portable setups, the tripod and its coupling to the ground is at least as important as the mount itself when it comes to vibration.

I have attached some pictures of some of these examples.

Jeff

On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 5:33 PM fernandorivera3 via groups.io <fernandorivera3=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
The 1100 GTO would be a better option than the Mach 2 for the TEC 180 FL

Fernando


dvjbaja
 

My experience with the Losmandy HD, folding tripod has been mixed.  Much depends on the surface it resides.  My own thoughts on mounts:

AP 180 f/7 on the 1200 mount was rock solid.  48" x 10" AP pier. Overall I would say the 1200 was the best mount I've ever owned. 

The same scope on the new 1100 and Losmandy HD folding tripod is only fair.. I would say that the limt of the mount/tripod combination was reached.   Lots of high frequency vibration that takes about 1.5" to 2" to settle. 

A friends 155 f/7 on his 900 mount and 52" pier is very solid, vibration free.  These are really good mounts. 

My 10" Mak Cass on the 1100 with Losmandy HD tripod (fully lowered), experiences some minor, slow vibration during focusing.  But this seems to change if I am on a cement surface, or dirt surface.  Dirt is worse. 

Long moment arm tubes are just hard to dampen, but a solid pier footing would really seem to help in a perminent location. 








Roland Christen
 

Nice collection of scopes and mount.

Having a strong steel pier is of course the ultimate for stability. The ATS portable piers are probably the most solid piers you can get next to steel or concrete. I have one in our Hawaii observatory and will be installing a second one shortly.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff B <mnebula946@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Mon, Oct 11, 2021 6:12 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 with TEC180 for visual

For a bit of perspective, I have had several AP mount and refractor combinations that have worked just fine for visual use.  By "fine" I mean the ability to easily and accurately focus at high power without a lot of juggling in the image (interestingly, a small bit of slow back and forth in the image actually seems to make accurate focusing easier for me at times).

My Mach 1 with a Losmandy HD tripod was "good" with my old AP 178 F9, which is rather light weight for its aperture but a long moment arm.

My AP1100 with the HD tripod was a "very good" support for the 178 F9 but "ok to good"  with the TEC 200ED (F9, and about 63 pounds fully configured with dovetail, aft ring with 60mm F8 finder, counterpoise weight system and bino-viewers)

My AP900 was VG to excellent supporting 178 F9 and G to VG with the 200ED (actually, I was very impressed at how well it handled the scope).  But this was with the AP900 installed on a fabricated steel pier, filled with sand and bolted to a concrete pad. 

My AP1200 is just flat out excellent with the TEC 200ED.  Sure, if I bump it hard enough it will go through a couple of highly damped  cycles, but its system "Q" factor is of such high quality, there is NO vibration when focusing even up to 500X.  And honestly, it is the most satisfying visual scope/mount system I have ever used.  It too is bolted down with the steel pier.

Our County Parks Department's observatory has a 220 F12 achromat riding on another AP1200 (again bolted to a sand filled steel pier).  The OTA with all accessories and bino-viewer, tips the scales at 80 pounds and is a solid VG to E.

Now my experience has also been that for portable setups, the tripod and its coupling to the ground is at least as important as the mount itself when it comes to vibration.

I have attached some pictures of some of these examples.

Jeff

On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 5:33 PM fernandorivera3 via groups.io <fernandorivera3=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
The 1100 GTO would be a better option than the Mach 2 for the TEC 180 FL

Fernando


--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


fernandorivera3
 

IMHO if using a great quality portable pier or tripod for your AP GTO & scope, a better surface is very solid ground (grassy field) rather than a large concrete or cement foundation due to the heat buildup during the day. At night all that stored heat radiates upwards & should affect the views thru the scope. On a wide open grassy field the ground should cool down much faster.

Fernando


Roland Christen
 

Make sure you use pavers under the feet, otherwise they will slowly sink into the grassy soil.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: fernandorivera3 via groups.io <fernandorivera3@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Mon, Oct 11, 2021 7:29 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 with TEC180 for visual

IMHO if using a great quality portable pier or tripod for your AP GTO & scope, a better surface is very solid ground (grassy field) rather than a large concrete or cement foundation due to the heat buildup during the day. At night all that stored heat radiates upwards & should affect the views thru the scope. On a wide open grassy field the ground should cool down much faster.

Fernando


--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Jeff B
 

Excellent points.  The heat shed off of hot top (gee, I wonder how it got that name...) can be a killer, especially for Dobs.  Fortunately for us, our refractor apertures are a bit off of the ground. 

I prefer grass and pavers too, a great combination. 👍👌

Jeff

On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 8:38 PM Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Make sure you use pavers under the feet, otherwise they will slowly sink into the grassy soil.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: fernandorivera3 via groups.io <fernandorivera3=yahoo.com@groups.io>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Mon, Oct 11, 2021 7:29 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 with TEC180 for visual

IMHO if using a great quality portable pier or tripod for your AP GTO & scope, a better surface is very solid ground (grassy field) rather than a large concrete or cement foundation due to the heat buildup during the day. At night all that stored heat radiates upwards & should affect the views thru the scope. On a wide open grassy field the ground should cool down much faster.

Fernando


--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Shailesh Trivedi
 

Thank you to everyone for your inputs. I have used my TEC180FL on a Paramount MX which I no longer have. The MX had a payload capacity of 90lbs and I reduced the max slew rate and it did take a while to damp out & Tpoint models took a while; after that I have taken > 30 minutes guided subs for many months.

See image. Now I have retrofitted the same pier and it holds an AP1100. I also have an AP Mach2, on a Losmandy FHD tripod. I am sure the TEC180FL will be ok on the AP1100, not sure about the Mach2 though.

Shailesh


fernandorivera3
 

The Monolith by Particle Wave Technology is another great option. What a shame they are no longer in production for about a decade or so. 

Fernando


Terri Zittritsch
 
Edited

Shailesh, please post how this goes for you!   I just put in an order for a TEC 180  (9 mo wait) and have the mach2.    I've had this discussion with Roland in the past and he suggested the 1100, which I've gotten on the list for, but am still very interested on how the Mach2 might handle things.    After having the Mach2 for some time now, and following some guidance learned here, my guiding / tracking is fabulous on everything up to an 11" edge.      I know my discmount will handle the weight for visual.     What the market lacks is a driven alt-az mount for this size scope at a reasonable price point.    


Terri


Jeff B
 

Cool!


On Tue, Oct 12, 2021 at 12:28 AM Shailesh Trivedi <strivedi@...> wrote:
Thank you to everyone for your inputs. I have used my TEC180FL on a Paramount MX which I no longer have. The MX had a payload capacity of 90lbs and I reduced the max slew rate and it did take a while to damp out & Tpoint models took a while; after that I have taken > 30 minutes guided subs for many months.

See image. Now I have retrofitted the same pier and it holds an AP1100. I also have an AP Mach2, on a Losmandy FHD tripod. I am sure the TEC180FL will be ok on the AP1100, not sure about the Mach2 though.

Shailesh