Topics

Mach1 Unable to Find Home Position Suddenly

Mikko Viljamaa
 

Top of the Morning to all,

I have recently started to have an issue where the mount misses it's normal park-3 position and "over slews" it in both directions. Sometimes as much as an inch (mostly Ra) from the white line. I've tried everything, move it back to correct position with clutches loose, manually without loosing the clutches, with power on and off. Yesterday I was able to make it return correctly once but after the night's session this morning it had parked itself again about an inch off. The coordinates (90/360) and the time at AP V2 seem to be correct, the program I use is SG Pro although I doubt it makes any difference here. The driver is the latest from AP's site.

Any ideas what to try next and as it's been a while when something like this has happened to me, what's the correct procedure to fix this?


Thanks,

Mikko

Ray Gralak
 

Hi Mikko,

I have recently started to have an issue where the mount misses it's normal park-3 position and "over slews" it in
both directions. Sometimes as much as an inch (mostly Ra) from the white line.
The time changed this weekend in some areas. If you are mixing keypad and computer use, make sure both match time and time zone offset. If the time zone is different it will cause the mount to be "off" by 1 hour in RA.

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mikko Viljamaa
Sent: Monday, March 9, 2020 6:18 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: [ap-gto] Mach1 Unable to Find Home Position Suddenly

Top of the Morning to all,

I have recently started to have an issue where the mount misses it's normal park-3 position and "over slews" it in
both directions. Sometimes as much as an inch (mostly Ra) from the white line. I've tried everything, move it back
to correct position with clutches loose, manually without loosing the clutches, with power on and off. Yesterday I
was able to make it return correctly once but after the night's session this morning it had parked itself again about
an inch off. The coordinates (90/360) and the time at AP V2 seem to be correct, the program I use is SG Pro
although I doubt it makes any difference here. The driver is the latest from AP's site.

Any ideas what to try next and as it's been a while when something like this has happened to me, what's the
correct procedure to fix this?


Thanks,

Mikko

Mikko Viljamaa
 

Thanks Ray, this started before Saturday and I don't have a keypad. Just to confirm; what's the correct process to manually move the axes to correct park positions?


- Mikko

Ray Gralak
 

Thanks Ray, this started before Saturday and I don't have a keypad. Just to confirm; what's the correct process to
manually move the axes to correct park positions?
Okay, a couple other possibilities are:

1) The clutches slipped. Check the clutches to be sure they are tight.
2) The mount was recalibrated on a wrong star/object.

One way to recover is to park to Park 3 and manually adjust the mount position to the correct Park 3 position. Later, plate solve + RCAL somewhere near the zenith.

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver


-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mikko Viljamaa
Sent: Monday, March 9, 2020 6:59 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach1 Unable to Find Home Position Suddenly

Thanks Ray, this started before Saturday and I don't have a keypad. Just to confirm; what's the correct process to
manually move the axes to correct park positions?


- Mikko

Mikko Viljamaa
 

Ray,

The clutches are tight as I have manually rotated the axes to re-park it correctly. No changes there from the day 1 when I received the mount. I have never calibrated the mount to any start or object but always used the SG Pro and it's platesolve (with which I have had issues lately and which made me look closer to what's going on with the mount itself). So to clarify (sorry if I'm repeating myself), today when I get home, I'll adjust manually - clutches engaged and power off - the mount so it's parked to position 3. Then turn the power on and slew the mount using the AP V2 and then park it again and see if it returns correctly to home position. If It doesn't I'll uninstall the AP V2 and reinstall it, making sure that the time / date are correct. If you can think of something else I can try, please let me know.


- Mikko

Ray Gralak
 

Hi Mikko,

I have never calibrated the mount to any start or object but always used the SG Pro
and it's platesolve (with which I have had issues lately and which made me look closer to what's going on with the
If in SGPro you plate solved and synched, that is in fact recalibrating (RCAL).

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver


-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mikko Viljamaa
Sent: Monday, March 9, 2020 8:54 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach1 Unable to Find Home Position Suddenly

Ray,

The clutches are tight as I have manually rotated the axes to re-park it correctly. No changes there from the day 1
when I received the mount. I have never calibrated the mount to any start or object but always used the SG Pro
and it's platesolve (with which I have had issues lately and which made me look closer to what's going on with the
mount itself). So to clarify (sorry if I'm repeating myself), today when I get home, I'll adjust manually - clutches
engaged and power off - the mount so it's parked to position 3. Then turn the power on and slew the mount using
the AP V2 and then park it again and see if it returns correctly to home position. If It doesn't I'll uninstall the AP V2
and reinstall it, making sure that the time / date are correct. If you can think of something else I can try, please let
me know.


- Mikko

Mikko Viljamaa
 

Just an update. I "played" with the mount today and more I slew it, the further it missed the home position. Then I uninstalled and reinstalled the driver and the problem disappeared. I slew it half a dozen times and every time it returned home correctly. Go figure...


- Mikko

Ray Gralak
 

Hi Mikko,

I'm glad the problem is solved but I don't think that re-installing the driver had anything to do with that. The driver has fixed Hour angle/Declination positions for the park positions which would not have changed by reinstalling the driver.

BTW, when you say "Home Position", did you mean "Park Position"? With APCC you can define a home position but the AP V2 ASCOM driver doesn't have a "find home" feature.

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mikko Viljamaa
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2020 5:00 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach1 Unable to Find Home Position Suddenly

Just an update. I "played" with the mount today and more I slew it, the further it missed the home position. Then I
uninstalled and reinstalled the driver and the problem disappeared. I slew it half a dozen times and every time it
returned home correctly. Go figure...


- Mikko

Mikko Viljamaa
 

Correct, Home = Park 3. And yes, none of the position values or time changed after the re-installation but for some reason the issue is gone at least for now.


- Mikko

Mikko Viljamaa
 

Well actually my original issue is still unsolved, meaning the Platesolve not working out of blue after being flawless for years. What I do see is that the mount coordinates don't match the SG Pro coordinates. Further I don't know if AP V2 uses J2000 or JNow and if this makes any difference. I've asked the same question from the SGP developers but didn't hear anything constructive back yet.


Thanks,

Mikko

Ray Gralak
 

Hi Mikko,

The mount's coordinates are JNow. And it does make a difference.

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mikko Viljamaa
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2020 5:20 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach1 Unable to Find Home Position Suddenly

Well actually my original issue is still unsolved, meaning the Platesolve not working out of blue after being
flawless for years. What I do see is that the mount coordinates don't match the SG Pro coordinates. Further I don't
know if AP V2 uses J2000 or JNow and if this makes any difference. I've asked the same question from the SGP
developers but didn't hear anything constructive back yet.


Thanks,

Mikko

Thomas Fischer
 

So , to be clear, if I am out in the field and using my CP4 and hand controller with the older firmware (not mach 2 new) and I am using an older atlas that has J2000 coordinates I need to convert them to JNOW before entering on HC? Be kind, you are dealing with a pilgrim here. Tom FIscher, Indy

On Mar 18, 2020, at 22:58, Ray Gralak <groups3@...> wrote:

Hi Mikko,

The mount's coordinates are JNow. And it does make a difference.

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mikko Viljamaa
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2020 5:20 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach1 Unable to Find Home Position Suddenly

Well actually my original issue is still unsolved, meaning the Platesolve not working out of blue after being
flawless for years. What I do see is that the mount coordinates don't match the SG Pro coordinates. Further I don't
know if AP V2 uses J2000 or JNow and if this makes any difference. I've asked the same question from the SGP
developers but didn't hear anything constructive back yet.


Thanks,

Mikko



Ray Gralak
 

Hi Tom,

So , to be clear, if I am out in the field and using my CP4 and hand controller with the older firmware (not mach 2
new) and I am using an older atlas that has J2000 coordinates I need to convert them to JNOW before entering on
HC? Be kind, you are dealing with a pilgrim here. Tom FIscher, Indy
From the keypad's manual:

Important Note: When you enter custom R.A. and Dec. coordinates they should preferably be entered as precessed
coordinates (JNow or Topocentric coordinates). The Keypad automatically precesses objects in its database, and any prior
ReCals will have been done on precessed coordinates. However, the keypad cannot know the epoch of the coordinates
that you are entering, so it only applies the small refraction transformations. Therefore, for accurate pointing, you will want
to maintain consistency and enter precessed coordinates.

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver


-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Thomas Fischer
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2020 3:45 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach1 Unable to Find Home Position Suddenly

So , to be clear, if I am out in the field and using my CP4 and hand controller with the older firmware (not mach 2
new) and I am using an older atlas that has J2000 coordinates I need to convert them to JNOW before entering on
HC? Be kind, you are dealing with a pilgrim here. Tom FIscher, Indy

On Mar 18, 2020, at 22:58, Ray Gralak <groups3@...> wrote:

Hi Mikko,

The mount's coordinates are JNow. And it does make a difference.

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mikko Viljamaa
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2020 5:20 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach1 Unable to Find Home Position Suddenly

Well actually my original issue is still unsolved, meaning the Platesolve not working out of blue after being
flawless for years. What I do see is that the mount coordinates don't match the SG Pro coordinates. Further I
don't
know if AP V2 uses J2000 or JNow and if this makes any difference. I've asked the same question from the
SGP
developers but didn't hear anything constructive back yet.


Thanks,

Mikko




Thomas Fischer
 

Thanks ray, I found a simple converter for my star atlas, old school. 

 I guess I am going to have to be better at online digital catalogs.

 plus I just passed by that statement in the manual not realizing I am entering a “custom coordinate” even though it likely in the HC catalog, I was practicing basic skilz 

On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 08:13 Ray Gralak <groups3@...> wrote:
Hi Tom,

> So , to be clear, if I am out in the field and using my CP4 and hand controller with the older firmware (not mach 2
> new) and I am using an older atlas that has J2000 coordinates I need to convert them to JNOW before entering on
> HC?   Be kind, you are dealing with a pilgrim here.  Tom FIscher, Indy

From the keypad's manual:

Important Note: When you enter custom R.A. and Dec. coordinates they should preferably be entered as precessed
coordinates (JNow or Topocentric coordinates). The Keypad automatically precesses objects in its database, and any prior
ReCals will have been done on precessed coordinates. However, the keypad cannot know the epoch of the coordinates
that you are entering, so it only applies the small refraction transformations. Therefore, for accurate pointing, you will want
to maintain consistency and enter precessed coordinates.

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
Author of PEMPro V3:  https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver


> -----Original Message-----
> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Thomas Fischer
> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2020 3:45 AM
> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach1 Unable to Find Home Position Suddenly
>
> So , to be clear, if I am out in the field and using my CP4 and hand controller with the older firmware (not mach 2
> new) and I am using an older atlas that has J2000 coordinates I need to convert them to JNOW before entering on
> HC?   Be kind, you are dealing with a pilgrim here.  Tom FIscher, Indy
>
> > On Mar 18, 2020, at 22:58, Ray Gralak <groups3@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Mikko,
> >
> > The mount's coordinates are JNow. And it does make a difference.
> >
> > -Ray Gralak
> > Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
> > Author of PEMPro V3:  https://www.ccdware.com
> > Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mikko Viljamaa
> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2020 5:20 PM
> >> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> >> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach1 Unable to Find Home Position Suddenly
> >>
> >> Well actually my original issue is still unsolved, meaning the Platesolve not working out of blue after being
> >> flawless for years. What I do see is that the mount coordinates don't match the SG Pro coordinates. Further I
> don't
> >> know if AP V2 uses J2000 or JNow and if this makes any difference. I've asked the same question from the
> SGP
> >> developers but didn't hear anything constructive back yet.
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Mikko
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>




--
TJF MOBILE

Mikko Viljamaa
 

Ray I just wanted to let you know that I "escalated" this issue by contacting A-P via e-mail asking help. This in case you didn't see it yet. I feel like I have an issue with the Mount and not with the Platesolving or anything else. Either the clutches are slipping or something else is wrong but the Mount just doesn't slew where it's supposed to. As you guessed, reinstalling the driver did not actually solve my problem and the Mount is again slewing past the park-3 position and does the same thing with any target I have. Hence the reason why Platesolve does not work as the Mount is so much off.


Thanks,

Mikko

Dale Ghent
 

Hey Mikki, I responded to you about this issue on your CN thread. One other potential cause besides mechanical slippage is your PC's clock drifting copiously between sessions. This is something to consider if your drift is in RA only.

On Mar 20, 2020, at 1:09 PM, Mikko Viljamaa <mikko.viljamaa@...> wrote:

Ray I just wanted to let you know that I "escalated" this issue by contacting A-P via e-mail asking help. This in case you didn't see it yet. I feel like I have an issue with the Mount and not with the Platesolving or anything else. Either the clutches are slipping or something else is wrong but the Mount just doesn't slew where it's supposed to. As you guessed, reinstalling the driver did not actually solve my problem and the Mount is again slewing past the park-3 position and does the same thing with any target I have. Hence the reason why Platesolve does not work as the Mount is so much off.


Thanks,

Mikko

Donald Rudny
 

Hi Mikko,

Just throwing out an idea here, but do you have an ipad or iPhone?  If you do, you could buy SkySafari or Luminous (they’re pretty cheap) to control the mount and take your computer and plate solving out of the link.  You can run through a number of go to slews and see if it parks in the same place.  If you align to a known object, you can evaluate your go to as well.  If that works, it’s not the mount.

I only use APCC to initiate and then connect my CP4 to an iPad for control.  It works perfectly and is pretty much a no brainer.

Hope this helps.

Don

Don Rudny

On Mar 20, 2020, at 7:09 AM, Mikko Viljamaa <mikko.viljamaa@...> wrote:

Ray I just wanted to let you know that I "escalated" this issue by contacting A-P via e-mail asking help. This in case you didn't see it yet. I feel like I have an issue with the Mount and not with the Platesolving or anything else. Either the clutches are slipping or something else is wrong but the Mount just doesn't slew where it's supposed to. As you guessed, reinstalling the driver did not actually solve my problem and the Mount is again slewing past the park-3 position and does the same thing with any target I have. Hence the reason why Platesolve does not work as the Mount is so much off.


Thanks,

Mikko

Mikko Viljamaa
 

Thanks Don. I have Luminous so I could try that. But... even if I just use the AP V2 driver, unpark the Mount and slew it to any direction and then ask it to park again, it will miss the park position. Any movement will confuse it now 9 times out of 10. 


- Mikko

Luca Marinelli
 

Mikko,

While you get to the bottom of the issue, one thing you can try to mitigate the failed centering is to uncheck Prevent Errant RECALs in advanced settings. This will allow an initial large error in pointing and the centering process will not fail.

Luca

Donald Rudny
 

Mikko,

I’m not a computer expert and hate Windows, but I understand that a driver can get corrupted.  Using Luminous directly would take the AP V2 driver out of the control system, wouldn’t it?  If it’s still off on the park with just Luminous, then there is a mount or CP problem.  If it works ok, then something is amiss in your computer/driver/APCC.  You should be able to initialize with just Luminous.  Not sure what park positions it allows for.  SkySafari only allows for Park 4.  I think they are working to allow for more.

Don

Don Rudny


On Mar 20, 2020, at 8:10 AM, Mikko Viljamaa <mikko.viljamaa@...> wrote:

Thanks Don. I have Luminous so I could try that. But... even if I just use the AP V2 driver, unpark the Mount and slew it to any direction and then ask it to park again, it will miss the park position. Any movement will confuse it now 9 times out of 10. 


- Mikko