It works! NINA, ASTAP, Model, new AP1100AE


ap@CaptivePhotons.com
 

Ok, it's another one of those "surprise, it did what it said it would" posts, but... first really clear night since i got the mount (2 months ago). First real model where I could get the whole sky.

NINA and ASTAP used, 79 points, 79 good, none failed, 32 minutes (about 2.5 points per minute) with a C11 @ 2800mm, ASI6200MM bin 2, 3 sec exposures.  Polar aligned with NINA's new tool.

With light winds (gusting to 5mph with a big dew shield on it), PHD2 over 200 seconds shows RMS error of 0.46" -- with guiding OFF (Guiding Assistant). 

First slew across half the sky plate solved to 20" by 1" off.

Many thanks to Dale, Ray and whoever else helped with the NINA/ASTAP integration.  I can't get my camera to work reliably with APPM directly, and I really didn't want to use TSX, so this is a terrific combination, and at least to me seems quite fast.  Not sure I NEED a model but it is nice to know I can build one reasonably fast.

I'm now imaging and guiding at 0.31" RMS despite the light wind (prior mounts almost any wind with that big dew shield was a mess). All that with a non-locked mirror as well.

So I do have one question: if you have an all sky model, should you check the DEC Arc tracking anyway?  (I realize the model is not really important since I'm guiding, but trying to learn in case I want to ever image unguided. )

So anyway, thanks again for all that made the new integration work!

Linwood


Joseph Beyer
 

With the encoders and a good model your reliance on guiding will be a lot less.  The guider wont have to work as hard to keep the course.  I’ve stopped guiding at all with my Mach1 using 50 point models at short focal length (530mm). 

On Sep 27, 2021, at 6:06 PM, ap@... wrote:

Ok, it's another one of those "surprise, it did what it said it would" posts, but... first really clear night since i got the mount (2 months ago). First real model where I could get the whole sky.

NINA and ASTAP used, 79 points, 79 good, none failed, 32 minutes (about 2.5 points per minute) with a C11 @ 2800mm, ASI6200MM bin 2, 3 sec exposures.  Polar aligned with NINA's new tool.

With light winds (gusting to 5mph with a big dew shield on it), PHD2 over 200 seconds shows RMS error of 0.46" -- with guiding OFF (Guiding Assistant). 

First slew across half the sky plate solved to 20" by 1" off.

Many thanks to Dale, Ray and whoever else helped with the NINA/ASTAP integration.  I can't get my camera to work reliably with APPM directly, and I really didn't want to use TSX, so this is a terrific combination, and at least to me seems quite fast.  Not sure I NEED a model but it is nice to know I can build one reasonably fast.

I'm now imaging and guiding at 0.31" RMS despite the light wind (prior mounts almost any wind with that big dew shield was a mess). All that with a non-locked mirror as well.

So I do have one question: if you have an all sky model, should you check the DEC Arc tracking anyway?  (I realize the model is not really important since I'm guiding, but trying to learn in case I want to ever image unguided. )

So anyway, thanks again for all that made the new integration work!

Linwood


Bill Long
 

Its a little bit different of a ballgame with SCT's though. I think with an external focuser and the mirror locks engaged you can mitigate the flop issue that can cause problems.  


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Joseph Beyer <jcbeyer2001@...>
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2021 6:23 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] It works! NINA, ASTAP, Model, new AP1100AE
 
With the encoders and a good model your reliance on guiding will be a lot less.  The guider wont have to work as hard to keep the course.  I’ve stopped guiding at all with my Mach1 using 50 point models at short focal length (530mm). 

On Sep 27, 2021, at 6:06 PM, ap@... wrote:

Ok, it's another one of those "surprise, it did what it said it would" posts, but... first really clear night since i got the mount (2 months ago). First real model where I could get the whole sky.

NINA and ASTAP used, 79 points, 79 good, none failed, 32 minutes (about 2.5 points per minute) with a C11 @ 2800mm, ASI6200MM bin 2, 3 sec exposures.  Polar aligned with NINA's new tool.

With light winds (gusting to 5mph with a big dew shield on it), PHD2 over 200 seconds shows RMS error of 0.46" -- with guiding OFF (Guiding Assistant). 

First slew across half the sky plate solved to 20" by 1" off.

Many thanks to Dale, Ray and whoever else helped with the NINA/ASTAP integration.  I can't get my camera to work reliably with APPM directly, and I really didn't want to use TSX, so this is a terrific combination, and at least to me seems quite fast.  Not sure I NEED a model but it is nice to know I can build one reasonably fast.

I'm now imaging and guiding at 0.31" RMS despite the light wind (prior mounts almost any wind with that big dew shield was a mess). All that with a non-locked mirror as well.

So I do have one question: if you have an all sky model, should you check the DEC Arc tracking anyway?  (I realize the model is not really important since I'm guiding, but trying to learn in case I want to ever image unguided. )

So anyway, thanks again for all that made the new integration work!

Linwood


ap@CaptivePhotons.com
 

Bill Long wrote:

 

  • Its a little bit different of a ballgame with SCT's though. I think with an external focuser and the mirror locks engaged you can mitigate the flop issue that can cause problems.  

 

Other than a need to refocus after long slews, it really is more of a theoretical problem than one I notice.  I spent a lot of time researching external focusers (and rotators and tilt adapters) and just decided to wait until I was sure I had a problem that needed fixing.  Frankly with talk of focuser sag (I have a fairly heavy camera) on some of them, and others that eat up too much back focus, indefinite delays on others, and the price tag on some … Well, waiting for the problem to become more evident.


Though speaking of which, do the numbers here like flex or east vs west values speak to how much mirror flop occurred during all that slewing?   I won’t pretend to understand the implication of the specific numbers below.

 

 


Bill Long
 

Definitely best to encounter a problem before paying a load of money to fix it. :) 

I have always assumed the numbers on one side being different than the other were due to orthogonality issues or a slight pier imbalance. Ray would know better though. 


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of ap@... <ap@...>
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2021 6:33 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] It works! NINA, ASTAP, Model, new AP1100AE
 

Bill Long wrote:

 

  • Its a little bit different of a ballgame with SCT's though. I think with an external focuser and the mirror locks engaged you can mitigate the flop issue that can cause problems.  

 

Other than a need to refocus after long slews, it really is more of a theoretical problem than one I notice.  I spent a lot of time researching external focusers (and rotators and tilt adapters) and just decided to wait until I was sure I had a problem that needed fixing.  Frankly with talk of focuser sag (I have a fairly heavy camera) on some of them, and others that eat up too much back focus, indefinite delays on others, and the price tag on some … Well, waiting for the problem to become more evident.


Though speaking of which, do the numbers here like flex or east vs west values speak to how much mirror flop occurred during all that slewing?   I won’t pretend to understand the implication of the specific numbers below.

 

 


ap@CaptivePhotons.com
 

Bill Long wrote:

 

  • Definitely best to encounter a problem before paying a load of money to fix it. :) 

 

Despite vendor wishes to the contrary.  😊

 

Of course, it presumes the wisdom to notice a problem.  Something I worry about at times.

 

  • I have always assumed the numbers on one side being different than the other were due to orthogonality issues or a slight pier imbalance. Ray would know better though. 

 

I stare at the numbers and even if I know a definition, I lack the context to know if it is actionable.  E.g. is 113 Tube Flexure, for a C11 on an AP1100 grossly awful or really good or somewhere in between?   (Or maybe more to the point are any of these actionable intelligence about one’s setup; maybe the answer is problems show up elsewhere, this is not a good place to look).

 


 

Hi Linwood

nice to hear your success

>>> if you have an all sky model, should you check the DEC Arc tracking anyway?

it's an optional feature, but yes I suggest you check it. It's a "tracking improvement" feature. The worst that happens is your guiding doesn't improve, and you can disable it


Brian 



On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 6:06 PM ap@... <ap@...> wrote:
Ok, it's another one of those "surprise, it did what it said it would" posts, but... first really clear night since i got the mount (2 months ago). First real model where I could get the whole sky.

NINA and ASTAP used, 79 points, 79 good, none failed, 32 minutes (about 2.5 points per minute) with a C11 @ 2800mm, ASI6200MM bin 2, 3 sec exposures.  Polar aligned with NINA's new tool.

With light winds (gusting to 5mph with a big dew shield on it), PHD2 over 200 seconds shows RMS error of 0.46" -- with guiding OFF (Guiding Assistant). 

First slew across half the sky plate solved to 20" by 1" off.

Many thanks to Dale, Ray and whoever else helped with the NINA/ASTAP integration.  I can't get my camera to work reliably with APPM directly, and I really didn't want to use TSX, so this is a terrific combination, and at least to me seems quite fast.  Not sure I NEED a model but it is nice to know I can build one reasonably fast.

I'm now imaging and guiding at 0.31" RMS despite the light wind (prior mounts almost any wind with that big dew shield was a mess). All that with a non-locked mirror as well.

So I do have one question: if you have an all sky model, should you check the DEC Arc tracking anyway?  (I realize the model is not really important since I'm guiding, but trying to learn in case I want to ever image unguided. )

So anyway, thanks again for all that made the new integration work!

Linwood



--
Brian 



Brian Valente