moderated Improved lunar tracking speed ?


christian viladrich
 

Hello AP users,

The apparent motion of the Moon with respect to the stars is usually approximated by 0.5 arsec/s. However this is an approximation and the true value changes from day to day (see delta alpha x cos delta (arsec/min) column in the table below).

This approximation is a real pain when doing high resolution images of the Moon with 14" telescopes or larger.

By high resolution, I mean this kind of picture :

http://astrosurf.com/viladrich/astro/moon/closeup/RC500/Moretus-26octo2021-3h41UT-RC500-red-ASI1600-rev.jpg

This one was taken with a 500 mm RC telescope on an AP1600 GTOCP4 mount. Smallest visible craters are in the range of 350 m. Because the lunar tracking speed is approximated, we have to constantly play with the alpha slow motion to recenter the field imaged. This would be a huge improvement if we could have a tracking speed based on lunar ephemerid.

Would it be possible thanks to the increased power of the processors embedded in the GTOCP 4 or CP 5 ?

I admit this is a very specialized demand, very far from the classic use of equatorial mounts.

Best regards

Christian Viladrich

http://astrosurf.com/viladrich/astro/moon/closeup/RC500/Moon-RC500.html

GTOCP4 or GTOCP5


Keith Olsen
 

Wow fantastic image!   The clarity is incredible. 


Roland Christen
 

All the AP mounts have the capability of tracking non-stellar objects, including the Moon. If the ephemeris is known then APCC Horizons can track it. I will let ray comment on this since he is infinitely more knowledgeable on that subject.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: christian viladrich <c.viladrich@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Dec 22, 2021 1:25 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?

Hello AP users,
The apparent motion of the Moon with respect to the stars is usually approximated by 0.5 arsec/s. However this is an approximation and the true value changes from day to day (see delta alpha x cos delta (arsec/min) column in the table below).
This approximation is a real pain when doing high resolution images of the Moon with 14" telescopes or larger.
By high resolution, I mean this kind of picture :
This one was taken with a 500 mm RC telescope on an AP1600 GTOCP4 mount. Smallest visible craters are in the range of 350 m. Because the lunar tracking speed is approximated, we have to constantly play with the alpha slow motion to recenter the field imaged. This would be a huge improvement if we could have a tracking speed based on lunar ephemerid.
Would it be possible thanks to the increased power of the processors embedded in the GTOCP 4 or CP 5 ?
I admit this is a very specialized demand, very far from the classic use of equatorial mounts.
Best regards
Christian Viladrich
GTOCP4 or GTOCP5

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


thefamily90 Phillips
 

Not sure why any lunar imager would need perfect tracking of the Moon. Everyone I know suit images the moon and planets takes an AVI and then uses software to pick out the best frames then stack them and once stacked processed in various software programs. When stacking, an X can be placed on a particular crater and the software stacking the images will stack them perfectly on that crater. Again, there is no need for perfect tracking when imaging the lunar surface (or a planet’s surface)
Here are a couple of images with a 10 inch triplet refractor and the image moved all over the screen while tracking. None of my scopes are perfectly aligned especially when you consider what Astro photographers scopes have to be. You just keep the image on the laptop screen and that’s all you need to do. 

JimP 







From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011@...>
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2021 4:13:00 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
 
All the AP mounts have the capability of tracking non-stellar objects, including the Moon. If the ephemeris is known then APCC Horizons can track it. I will let ray comment on this since he is infinitely more knowledgeable on that subject.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: christian viladrich <c.viladrich@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Dec 22, 2021 1:25 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?

Hello AP users,
The apparent motion of the Moon with respect to the stars is usually approximated by 0.5 arsec/s. However this is an approximation and the true value changes from day to day (see delta alpha x cos delta (arsec/min) column in the table below).
This approximation is a real pain when doing high resolution images of the Moon with 14" telescopes or larger.
By high resolution, I mean this kind of picture :
This one was taken with a 500 mm RC telescope on an AP1600 GTOCP4 mount. Smallest visible craters are in the range of 350 m. Because the lunar tracking speed is approximated, we have to constantly play with the alpha slow motion to recenter the field imaged. This would be a huge improvement if we could have a tracking speed based on lunar ephemerid.
Would it be possible thanks to the increased power of the processors embedded in the GTOCP 4 or CP 5 ?
I admit this is a very specialized demand, very far from the classic use of equatorial mounts.
Best regards
Christian Viladrich
GTOCP4 or GTOCP5

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


thefamily90 Phillips
 

Can’t seem to upload an image right now. I’ll work on it.

Jim P


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of thefamily90 Phillips <thefamily90@...>
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2021 4:57:42 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
 
Not sure why any lunar imager would need perfect tracking of the Moon. Everyone I know suit images the moon and planets takes an AVI and then uses software to pick out the best frames then stack them and once stacked processed in various software programs. When stacking, an X can be placed on a particular crater and the software stacking the images will stack them perfectly on that crater. Again, there is no need for perfect tracking when imaging the lunar surface (or a planet’s surface)
Here are a couple of images with a 10 inch triplet refractor and the image moved all over the screen while tracking. None of my scopes are perfectly aligned especially when you consider what Astro photographers scopes have to be. You just keep the image on the laptop screen and that’s all you need to do. 

JimP 







From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011@...>
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2021 4:13:00 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
 
All the AP mounts have the capability of tracking non-stellar objects, including the Moon. If the ephemeris is known then APCC Horizons can track it. I will let ray comment on this since he is infinitely more knowledgeable on that subject.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: christian viladrich <c.viladrich@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Dec 22, 2021 1:25 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?

Hello AP users,
The apparent motion of the Moon with respect to the stars is usually approximated by 0.5 arsec/s. However this is an approximation and the true value changes from day to day (see delta alpha x cos delta (arsec/min) column in the table below).
This approximation is a real pain when doing high resolution images of the Moon with 14" telescopes or larger.
By high resolution, I mean this kind of picture :
This one was taken with a 500 mm RC telescope on an AP1600 GTOCP4 mount. Smallest visible craters are in the range of 350 m. Because the lunar tracking speed is approximated, we have to constantly play with the alpha slow motion to recenter the field imaged. This would be a huge improvement if we could have a tracking speed based on lunar ephemerid.
Would it be possible thanks to the increased power of the processors embedded in the GTOCP 4 or CP 5 ?
I admit this is a very specialized demand, very far from the classic use of equatorial mounts.
Best regards
Christian Viladrich
GTOCP4 or GTOCP5

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Andrew Arai
 

Christian,

Stunning 3-dimensional appearance to your image near the moon’s! I’ve admired your lunar images for several years.

Horizons and APCC are probably the best answers for your lunar tracking and almost certainly the most elegant. Software like Firecapture can do lunar tracking too but may be a bit jumpy at your effective focal length. It is recommended that you specify lunar tracking and use the surface tracking mode.

Andrew


thefamily90 Phillips
 


From: jim phillips <thefamily90@...>
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2021 5:03:00 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
 
Can’t seem to upload an image right now. I’ll work on it.

Jim P

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of thefamily90 Phillips <thefamily90@...>
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2021 4:57:42 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
 
Not sure why any lunar imager would need perfect tracking of the Moon. Everyone I know suit images the moon and planets takes an AVI and then uses software to pick out the best frames then stack them and once stacked processed in various software programs. When stacking, an X can be placed on a particular crater and the software stacking the images will stack them perfectly on that crater. Again, there is no need for perfect tracking when imaging the lunar surface (or a planet’s surface)
Here are a couple of images with a 10 inch triplet refractor and the image moved all over the screen while tracking. None of my scopes are perfectly aligned especially when you consider what Astro photographers scopes have to be. You just keep the image on the laptop screen and that’s all you need to do. 

JimP 







From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011@...>
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2021 4:13:00 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
 
All the AP mounts have the capability of tracking non-stellar objects, including the Moon. If the ephemeris is known then APCC Horizons can track it. I will let ray comment on this since he is infinitely more knowledgeable on that subject.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: christian viladrich <c.viladrich@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Dec 22, 2021 1:25 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?

Hello AP users,
The apparent motion of the Moon with respect to the stars is usually approximated by 0.5 arsec/s. However this is an approximation and the true value changes from day to day (see delta alpha x cos delta (arsec/min) column in the table below).
This approximation is a real pain when doing high resolution images of the Moon with 14" telescopes or larger.
By high resolution, I mean this kind of picture :
This one was taken with a 500 mm RC telescope on an AP1600 GTOCP4 mount. Smallest visible craters are in the range of 350 m. Because the lunar tracking speed is approximated, we have to constantly play with the alpha slow motion to recenter the field imaged. This would be a huge improvement if we could have a tracking speed based on lunar ephemerid.
Would it be possible thanks to the increased power of the processors embedded in the GTOCP 4 or CP 5 ?
I admit this is a very specialized demand, very far from the classic use of equatorial mounts.
Best regards
Christian Viladrich
GTOCP4 or GTOCP5

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


thefamily90 Phillips
 


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of thefamily90 Phillips <thefamily90@...>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 9:24:21 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
 

From: jim phillips <thefamily90@...>
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2021 5:03:00 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
 
Can’t seem to upload an image right now. I’ll work on it.

Jim P

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of thefamily90 Phillips <thefamily90@...>
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2021 4:57:42 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
 
Not sure why any lunar imager would need perfect tracking of the Moon. Everyone I know suit images the moon and planets takes an AVI and then uses software to pick out the best frames then stack them and once stacked processed in various software programs. When stacking, an X can be placed on a particular crater and the software stacking the images will stack them perfectly on that crater. Again, there is no need for perfect tracking when imaging the lunar surface (or a planet’s surface)
Here are a couple of images with a 10 inch triplet refractor and the image moved all over the screen while tracking. None of my scopes are perfectly aligned especially when you consider what Astro photographers scopes have to be. You just keep the image on the laptop screen and that’s all you need to do. 

JimP 







From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011@...>
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2021 4:13:00 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
 
All the AP mounts have the capability of tracking non-stellar objects, including the Moon. If the ephemeris is known then APCC Horizons can track it. I will let ray comment on this since he is infinitely more knowledgeable on that subject.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: christian viladrich <c.viladrich@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Dec 22, 2021 1:25 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?

Hello AP users,
The apparent motion of the Moon with respect to the stars is usually approximated by 0.5 arsec/s. However this is an approximation and the true value changes from day to day (see delta alpha x cos delta (arsec/min) column in the table below).
This approximation is a real pain when doing high resolution images of the Moon with 14" telescopes or larger.
By high resolution, I mean this kind of picture :
This one was taken with a 500 mm RC telescope on an AP1600 GTOCP4 mount. Smallest visible craters are in the range of 350 m. Because the lunar tracking speed is approximated, we have to constantly play with the alpha slow motion to recenter the field imaged. This would be a huge improvement if we could have a tracking speed based on lunar ephemerid.
Would it be possible thanks to the increased power of the processors embedded in the GTOCP 4 or CP 5 ?
I admit this is a very specialized demand, very far from the classic use of equatorial mounts.
Best regards
Christian Viladrich
GTOCP4 or GTOCP5

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


thefamily90 Phillips
 

You just do not need good tracking for lunar and planetary imaging.

JimP


From: jim phillips <thefamily90@...>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 9:26:20 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of thefamily90 Phillips <thefamily90@...>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 9:24:21 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
 

From: jim phillips <thefamily90@...>
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2021 5:03:00 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
 
Can’t seem to upload an image right now. I’ll work on it.

Jim P

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of thefamily90 Phillips <thefamily90@...>
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2021 4:57:42 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
 
Not sure why any lunar imager would need perfect tracking of the Moon. Everyone I know suit images the moon and planets takes an AVI and then uses software to pick out the best frames then stack them and once stacked processed in various software programs. When stacking, an X can be placed on a particular crater and the software stacking the images will stack them perfectly on that crater. Again, there is no need for perfect tracking when imaging the lunar surface (or a planet’s surface)
Here are a couple of images with a 10 inch triplet refractor and the image moved all over the screen while tracking. None of my scopes are perfectly aligned especially when you consider what Astro photographers scopes have to be. You just keep the image on the laptop screen and that’s all you need to do. 

JimP 







From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011@...>
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2021 4:13:00 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
 
All the AP mounts have the capability of tracking non-stellar objects, including the Moon. If the ephemeris is known then APCC Horizons can track it. I will let ray comment on this since he is infinitely more knowledgeable on that subject.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: christian viladrich <c.viladrich@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Dec 22, 2021 1:25 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?

Hello AP users,
The apparent motion of the Moon with respect to the stars is usually approximated by 0.5 arsec/s. However this is an approximation and the true value changes from day to day (see delta alpha x cos delta (arsec/min) column in the table below).
This approximation is a real pain when doing high resolution images of the Moon with 14" telescopes or larger.
By high resolution, I mean this kind of picture :
This one was taken with a 500 mm RC telescope on an AP1600 GTOCP4 mount. Smallest visible craters are in the range of 350 m. Because the lunar tracking speed is approximated, we have to constantly play with the alpha slow motion to recenter the field imaged. This would be a huge improvement if we could have a tracking speed based on lunar ephemerid.
Would it be possible thanks to the increased power of the processors embedded in the GTOCP 4 or CP 5 ?
I admit this is a very specialized demand, very far from the classic use of equatorial mounts.
Best regards
Christian Viladrich
GTOCP4 or GTOCP5

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


thefamily90 Phillips
 

I have plenty more lunar and planetary images for anyone who would like to see them. None required good tracking.

Jim P


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of thefamily90 Phillips <thefamily90@...>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 9:27:32 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
 
You just do not need good tracking for lunar and planetary imaging.

JimP

From: jim phillips <thefamily90@...>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 9:26:20 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of thefamily90 Phillips <thefamily90@...>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 9:24:21 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
 

From: jim phillips <thefamily90@...>
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2021 5:03:00 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
 
Can’t seem to upload an image right now. I’ll work on it.

Jim P

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of thefamily90 Phillips <thefamily90@...>
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2021 4:57:42 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
 
Not sure why any lunar imager would need perfect tracking of the Moon. Everyone I know suit images the moon and planets takes an AVI and then uses software to pick out the best frames then stack them and once stacked processed in various software programs. When stacking, an X can be placed on a particular crater and the software stacking the images will stack them perfectly on that crater. Again, there is no need for perfect tracking when imaging the lunar surface (or a planet’s surface)
Here are a couple of images with a 10 inch triplet refractor and the image moved all over the screen while tracking. None of my scopes are perfectly aligned especially when you consider what Astro photographers scopes have to be. You just keep the image on the laptop screen and that’s all you need to do. 

JimP 







From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011@...>
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2021 4:13:00 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
 
All the AP mounts have the capability of tracking non-stellar objects, including the Moon. If the ephemeris is known then APCC Horizons can track it. I will let ray comment on this since he is infinitely more knowledgeable on that subject.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: christian viladrich <c.viladrich@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Dec 22, 2021 1:25 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?

Hello AP users,
The apparent motion of the Moon with respect to the stars is usually approximated by 0.5 arsec/s. However this is an approximation and the true value changes from day to day (see delta alpha x cos delta (arsec/min) column in the table below).
This approximation is a real pain when doing high resolution images of the Moon with 14" telescopes or larger.
By high resolution, I mean this kind of picture :
This one was taken with a 500 mm RC telescope on an AP1600 GTOCP4 mount. Smallest visible craters are in the range of 350 m. Because the lunar tracking speed is approximated, we have to constantly play with the alpha slow motion to recenter the field imaged. This would be a huge improvement if we could have a tracking speed based on lunar ephemerid.
Would it be possible thanks to the increased power of the processors embedded in the GTOCP 4 or CP 5 ?
I admit this is a very specialized demand, very far from the classic use of equatorial mounts.
Best regards
Christian Viladrich
GTOCP4 or GTOCP5

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Ray Gralak
 

I have plenty more lunar and planetary images for anyone who would like to see them. None required good
tracking.
However, if tracking is improved, the number of good video frames you can use to create a final image should go up.

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of thefamily90 Phillips
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 6:33 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?

I have plenty more lunar and planetary images for anyone who would like to see them. None required good
tracking.

Jim P

Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
________________________________

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of thefamily90 Phillips
<thefamily90@...>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 9:27:32 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?

You just do not need good tracking for lunar and planetary imaging.

JimP

Get Outlook for iOS
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2Fo0ukef&data=04%7C01%7
C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6377586
64601142507%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLC
JXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=%2BKDpGCpVFx%2FidB93bnWQU29gaQmVU9MrTBTBEdz7eLA%3D&rese
rved=0>
________________________________

From: jim phillips <thefamily90@...>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 9:26:20 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?

Image.jpeg


Get Outlook for iOS
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C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6377586
64601142507%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLC
JXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=%2BKDpGCpVFx%2FidB93bnWQU29gaQmVU9MrTBTBEdz7eLA%3D&rese
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From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of thefamily90 Phillips
<thefamily90@...>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 9:24:21 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?

Image.jpegImage.jpeg

Get Outlook for iOS
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C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6377586
64601142507%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLC
JXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=%2BKDpGCpVFx%2FidB93bnWQU29gaQmVU9MrTBTBEdz7eLA%3D&rese
rved=0>
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From: jim phillips <thefamily90@...>
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2021 5:03:00 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?

Can't seem to upload an image right now. I'll work on it.

Jim P

Get Outlook for iOS
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2Fo0ukef&data=04%7C01%7
C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6377586
64601298753%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLC
JXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=j2PYEw%2FkXzr3oUNV0y3sqejOhOyzFvL4ZtA64HAt%2FNA%3D&reserved
=0>
________________________________

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of thefamily90 Phillips
<thefamily90@...>
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2021 4:57:42 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?

Not sure why any lunar imager would need perfect tracking of the Moon. Everyone I know suit images the
moon and planets takes an AVI and then uses software to pick out the best frames then stack them and once
stacked processed in various software programs. When stacking, an X can be placed on a particular crater
and the software stacking the images will stack them perfectly on that crater. Again, there is no need for
perfect tracking when imaging the lunar surface (or a planet's surface)
Here are a couple of images with a 10 inch triplet refractor and the image moved all over the screen while
tracking. None of my scopes are perfectly aligned especially when you consider what Astro photographers
scopes have to be. You just keep the image on the laptop screen and that's all you need to do.

JimP








Get Outlook for iOS
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C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6377586
64601298753%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLC
JXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=j2PYEw%2FkXzr3oUNV0y3sqejOhOyzFvL4ZtA64HAt%2FNA%3D&reserved
=0>
________________________________

From: main@ap-gto..groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Roland Christen via groups.io
<chris1011@...>
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2021 4:13:00 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?

All the AP mounts have the capability of tracking non-stellar objects, including the Moon. If the ephemeris is
known then APCC Horizons can track it. I will let ray comment on this since he is infinitely more knowledgeable
on that subject.


Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: christian viladrich <c.viladrich@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Dec 22, 2021 1:25 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?


Hello AP users,

The apparent motion of the Moon with respect to the stars is usually approximated by 0.5 arsec/s. However
this is an approximation and the true value changes from day to day (see delta alpha x cos delta (arsec/min)
column in the table below).
This approximation is a real pain when doing high resolution images of the Moon with 14" telescopes or larger.

By high resolution, I mean this kind of picture :

http://astrosurf.com/viladrich/astro/moon/closeup/RC500/Moretus-26octo2021-3h41UT-RC500-red-ASI1600-
rev.jpg
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fastrosurf.com%2Fviladrich%2Fastro%2
Fmoon%2Fcloseup%2FRC500%2FMoretus-26octo2021-3h41UT-RC500-red-ASI1600-
rev.jpg&data=04%7C01%7C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaa
aa%7C1%7C0%7C637758664601298753%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV
2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=7SsxmHyStMFBxgJw1FQH1rulyKxp7MMKRFcj
OLKpLsc%3D&reserved=0>
This one was taken with a 500 mm RC telescope on an AP1600 GTOCP4 mount. Smallest visible craters are in
the range of 350 m. Because the lunar tracking speed is approximated, we have to constantly play with the
alpha slow motion to recenter the field imaged. This would be a huge improvement if we could have a tracking
speed based on lunar ephemerid.
Would it be possible thanks to the increased power of the processors embedded in the GTOCP 4 or CP 5 ?
I admit this is a very specialized demand, very far from the classic use of equatorial mounts.
Best regards
Christian Viladrich
http://astrosurf.com/viladrich/astro/moon/closeup/RC500/Moon-RC500.html
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fastrosurf.com%2Fviladrich%2Fastro%2
Fmoon%2Fcloseup%2FRC500%2FMoon-
RC500.html&data=04%7C01%7C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaa
aaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637758664601298753%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIj
oiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=dlCDTshQSqhx7fd6Si%2FNiwiVQt36NmkUS
v1%2FaAw85oI%3D&reserved=0>


GTOCP4 or GTOCP5


--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Howard Ritter
 

Seems doubtful. The lunar rate relative to the sidereal is about 1 Moon diameter per hour, 30’/h, 1800”/h, 0.5”/s, <0.1” per video frame. Tracking error that remains after a quick alignment with a polar scope might be several times that, but still a fraction of atmospheric seeing.

—howard

On Dec 23, 2021, at 9:39 AM, Ray Gralak <iogroups@...> wrote:

I have plenty more lunar and planetary images for anyone who would like to see them. None required good
tracking.
However, if tracking is improved, the number of good video frames you can use to create a final image should go up.

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of thefamily90 Phillips
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 6:33 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?

I have plenty more lunar and planetary images for anyone who would like to see them. None required good
tracking.

Jim P

Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
________________________________

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of thefamily90 Phillips
<thefamily90@...>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 9:27:32 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?

You just do not need good tracking for lunar and planetary imaging.

JimP

Get Outlook for iOS
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2Fo0ukef&data=04%7C01%7
C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6377586
64601142507%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLC
JXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=%2BKDpGCpVFx%2FidB93bnWQU29gaQmVU9MrTBTBEdz7eLA%3D&rese
rved=0>
________________________________

From: jim phillips <thefamily90@...>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 9:26:20 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?

Image.jpeg


Get Outlook for iOS
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2Fo0ukef&data=04%7C01%7
C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6377586
64601142507%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLC
JXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=%2BKDpGCpVFx%2FidB93bnWQU29gaQmVU9MrTBTBEdz7eLA%3D&rese
rved=0>
________________________________

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of thefamily90 Phillips
<thefamily90@...>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 9:24:21 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?

Image.jpegImage.jpeg

Get Outlook for iOS
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2Fo0ukef&data=04%7C01%7
C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6377586
64601142507%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLC
JXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=%2BKDpGCpVFx%2FidB93bnWQU29gaQmVU9MrTBTBEdz7eLA%3D&rese
rved=0>
________________________________

From: jim phillips <thefamily90@...>
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2021 5:03:00 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?

Can't seem to upload an image right now. I'll work on it.

Jim P

Get Outlook for iOS
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2Fo0ukef&data=04%7C01%7
C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6377586
64601298753%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLC
JXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=j2PYEw%2FkXzr3oUNV0y3sqejOhOyzFvL4ZtA64HAt%2FNA%3D&reserved
=0>
________________________________

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of thefamily90 Phillips
<thefamily90@...>
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2021 4:57:42 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?

Not sure why any lunar imager would need perfect tracking of the Moon. Everyone I know suit images the
moon and planets takes an AVI and then uses software to pick out the best frames then stack them and once
stacked processed in various software programs. When stacking, an X can be placed on a particular crater
and the software stacking the images will stack them perfectly on that crater. Again, there is no need for
perfect tracking when imaging the lunar surface (or a planet's surface)
Here are a couple of images with a 10 inch triplet refractor and the image moved all over the screen while
tracking. None of my scopes are perfectly aligned especially when you consider what Astro photographers
scopes have to be. You just keep the image on the laptop screen and that's all you need to do.

JimP








Get Outlook for iOS
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2Fo0ukef&data=04%7C01%7
C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6377586
64601298753%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLC
JXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=j2PYEw%2FkXzr3oUNV0y3sqejOhOyzFvL4ZtA64HAt%2FNA%3D&reserved
=0>
________________________________

From: main@ap-gto..groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Roland Christen via groups.io
<chris1011@...>
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2021 4:13:00 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?

All the AP mounts have the capability of tracking non-stellar objects, including the Moon. If the ephemeris is
known then APCC Horizons can track it. I will let ray comment on this since he is infinitely more knowledgeable
on that subject.


Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: christian viladrich <c.viladrich@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Dec 22, 2021 1:25 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?


Hello AP users,

The apparent motion of the Moon with respect to the stars is usually approximated by 0.5 arsec/s. However
this is an approximation and the true value changes from day to day (see delta alpha x cos delta (arsec/min)
column in the table below).
This approximation is a real pain when doing high resolution images of the Moon with 14" telescopes or larger.

By high resolution, I mean this kind of picture :

http://astrosurf.com/viladrich/astro/moon/closeup/RC500/Moretus-26octo2021-3h41UT-RC500-red-ASI1600-
rev.jpg
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fastrosurf.com%2Fviladrich%2Fastro%2
Fmoon%2Fcloseup%2FRC500%2FMoretus-26octo2021-3h41UT-RC500-red-ASI1600-
rev.jpg&data=04%7C01%7C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaa
aa%7C1%7C0%7C637758664601298753%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV
2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=7SsxmHyStMFBxgJw1FQH1rulyKxp7MMKRFcj
OLKpLsc%3D&reserved=0>
This one was taken with a 500 mm RC telescope on an AP1600 GTOCP4 mount. Smallest visible craters are in
the range of 350 m. Because the lunar tracking speed is approximated, we have to constantly play with the
alpha slow motion to recenter the field imaged. This would be a huge improvement if we could have a tracking
speed based on lunar ephemerid.
Would it be possible thanks to the increased power of the processors embedded in the GTOCP 4 or CP 5 ?
I admit this is a very specialized demand, very far from the classic use of equatorial mounts.
Best regards
Christian Viladrich
http://astrosurf.com/viladrich/astro/moon/closeup/RC500/Moon-RC500.html
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fastrosurf.com%2Fviladrich%2Fastro%2
Fmoon%2Fcloseup%2FRC500%2FMoon-
RC500.html&data=04%7C01%7C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaa
aaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637758664601298753%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIj
oiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=dlCDTshQSqhx7fd6Si%2FNiwiVQt36NmkUS
v1%2FaAw85oI%3D&reserved=0>


GTOCP4 or GTOCP5


--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics





thefamily90 Phillips
 

Not really. Depends upon the tracking on the screen with Firecapture for example. Plus you don’t really need to deal with lunar rotation so you can literally fill up your hard drive with far more images than you could possibly use. If you, for example, cannot get enough good frames from 10,000 avi frames, then the seeing  is not good enough to be imaging at all anyway.

JimP


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <iogroups@...>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 9:39:03 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
 
> I have plenty more lunar and planetary images for anyone who would like to see them. None required good
> tracking.

However, if tracking is improved, the number of good video frames you can use to create a final image should go up.

-Ray

> -----Original Message-----
> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of thefamily90 Phillips
> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 6:33 AM
> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
>
> I have plenty more lunar and planetary images for anyone who would like to see them. None required good
> tracking.
>
> Jim P
>
> Get Outlook for iOS <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2Fo0ukef&amp;data=04%7C01%7C%7C4eb41c9c01ee4286d75708d9c621fa19%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637758671496031493%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=wb%2BO1jFfJZYLlrtjVhCDHzD9eNMX9vhKpkv776fF0XQ%3D&amp;reserved=0>
> ________________________________
>
> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of thefamily90 Phillips
> <thefamily90@...>
> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 9:27:32 AM
> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
>
> You just do not need good tracking for lunar and planetary imaging.
>
> JimP
>
> Get Outlook for iOS
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2Fo0ukef&amp;data=04%7C01%7C%7C4eb41c9c01ee4286d75708d9c621fa19%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637758671496031493%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=wb%2BO1jFfJZYLlrtjVhCDHzD9eNMX9vhKpkv776fF0XQ%3D&amp;reserved=0
> C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6377586
> 64601142507%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLC
> JXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=%2BKDpGCpVFx%2FidB93bnWQU29gaQmVU9MrTBTBEdz7eLA%3D&rese
> rved=0>
> ________________________________
>
> From: jim phillips <thefamily90@...>
> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 9:26:20 AM
> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
>
> Image.jpeg
>
>
> Get Outlook for iOS
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2Fo0ukef&amp;data=04%7C01%7C%7C4eb41c9c01ee4286d75708d9c621fa19%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637758671496031493%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=wb%2BO1jFfJZYLlrtjVhCDHzD9eNMX9vhKpkv776fF0XQ%3D&amp;reserved=0
> C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6377586
> 64601142507%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLC
> JXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=%2BKDpGCpVFx%2FidB93bnWQU29gaQmVU9MrTBTBEdz7eLA%3D&rese
> rved=0>
> ________________________________
>
> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of thefamily90 Phillips
> <thefamily90@...>
> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 9:24:21 AM
> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
>
> Image.jpegImage.jpeg
>
> Get Outlook for iOS
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2Fo0ukef&amp;data=04%7C01%7C%7C4eb41c9c01ee4286d75708d9c621fa19%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637758671496031493%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=wb%2BO1jFfJZYLlrtjVhCDHzD9eNMX9vhKpkv776fF0XQ%3D&amp;reserved=0
> C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6377586
> 64601142507%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLC
> JXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=%2BKDpGCpVFx%2FidB93bnWQU29gaQmVU9MrTBTBEdz7eLA%3D&rese
> rved=0>
> ________________________________
>
> From: jim phillips <thefamily90@...>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2021 5:03:00 PM
> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
>
> Can't seem to upload an image right now. I'll work on it.
>
> Jim P
>
> Get Outlook for iOS
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2Fo0ukef&amp;data=04%7C01%7C%7C4eb41c9c01ee4286d75708d9c621fa19%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637758671496031493%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=wb%2BO1jFfJZYLlrtjVhCDHzD9eNMX9vhKpkv776fF0XQ%3D&amp;reserved=0
> C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6377586
> 64601298753%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLC
> JXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=j2PYEw%2FkXzr3oUNV0y3sqejOhOyzFvL4ZtA64HAt%2FNA%3D&reserved
> =0>
> ________________________________
>
> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of thefamily90 Phillips
> <thefamily90@...>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2021 4:57:42 PM
> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
>
> Not sure why any lunar imager would need perfect tracking of the Moon. Everyone I know suit images the
> moon and planets takes an AVI and then uses software to pick out the best frames then stack them and once
> stacked processed in various software programs. When stacking, an X can be placed on a particular crater
> and the software stacking the images will stack them perfectly on that crater. Again, there is no need for
> perfect tracking when imaging the lunar surface (or a planet's surface)
> Here are a couple of images with a 10 inch triplet refractor and the image moved all over the screen while
> tracking. None of my scopes are perfectly aligned especially when you consider what Astro photographers
> scopes have to be. You just keep the image on the laptop screen and that's all you need to do.
>
> JimP
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Get Outlook for iOS
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2Fo0ukef&amp;data=04%7C01%7C%7C4eb41c9c01ee4286d75708d9c621fa19%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637758671496031493%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=wb%2BO1jFfJZYLlrtjVhCDHzD9eNMX9vhKpkv776fF0XQ%3D&amp;reserved=0
> C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6377586
> 64601298753%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLC
> JXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=j2PYEw%2FkXzr3oUNV0y3sqejOhOyzFvL4ZtA64HAt%2FNA%3D&reserved
> =0>
> ________________________________
>
> From: main@ap-gto..groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Roland Christen via groups.io
> <chris1011@...>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2021 4:13:00 PM
> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
>
> All the AP mounts have the capability of tracking non-stellar objects, including the Moon. If the ephemeris is
> known then APCC Horizons can track it. I will let ray comment on this since he is infinitely more knowledgeable
> on that subject.
>
>
> Rolando
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: christian viladrich <c.viladrich@...>
> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> Sent: Wed, Dec 22, 2021 1:25 pm
> Subject: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
>
>
> Hello AP users,
>
> The apparent motion of the Moon with respect to the stars is usually approximated by 0.5 arsec/s. However
> this is an approximation and the true value changes from day to day (see delta alpha x cos delta (arsec/min)
> column in the table below).
> This approximation is a real pain when doing high resolution images of the Moon with 14" telescopes or larger.
>
> By high resolution, I mean this kind of picture :
>
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fastrosurf.com%2Fviladrich%2Fastro%2Fmoon%2Fcloseup%2FRC500%2FMoretus-26octo2021-3h41UT-RC500-red-ASI1600-&amp;data=04%7C01%7C%7C4eb41c9c01ee4286d75708d9c621fa19%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637758671496031493%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=fYk10Z3yNBffVPUbr223IxGTGaUCAZX2I1e%2FLDwwJAI%3D&amp;reserved=0
> rev.jpg
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fastrosurf.com%2Fviladrich%2Fastro%25252&amp;data=04%7C01%7C%7C4eb41c9c01ee4286d75708d9c621fa19%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637758671496031493%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=ICDdqPAQzabsnKaheSUQ%2BlIJzRu4yjOURh4vvMssxP0%3D&amp;reserved=0
> Fmoon%2Fcloseup%2FRC500%2FMoretus-26octo2021-3h41UT-RC500-red-ASI1600-
> rev.jpg&data=04%7C01%7C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaa
> aa%7C1%7C0%7C637758664601298753%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV
> 2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=7SsxmHyStMFBxgJw1FQH1rulyKxp7MMKRFcj
> OLKpLsc%3D&reserved=0>
> This one was taken with a 500 mm RC telescope on an AP1600 GTOCP4 mount. Smallest visible craters are in
> the range of 350 m. Because the lunar tracking speed is approximated, we have to constantly play with the
> alpha slow motion to recenter the field imaged. This would be a huge improvement if we could have a tracking
> speed based on lunar ephemerid.
> Would it be possible thanks to the increased power of the processors embedded in the GTOCP 4 or CP 5 ?
> I admit this is a very specialized demand, very far from the classic use of equatorial mounts.
> Best regards
> Christian Viladrich
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fastrosurf.com%2Fviladrich%2Fastro%2Fmoon%2Fcloseup%2FRC500%2FMoon-RC500.html&amp;data=04%7C01%7C%7C4eb41c9c01ee4286d75708d9c621fa19%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637758671496031493%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=ncd%2FOajes0MHyF49%2F%2FsuLW08Z3oEAkimBWqPW%2FXXExI%3D&amp;reserved=0
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fastrosurf.com%2Fviladrich%2Fastro%25252&amp;data=04%7C01%7C%7C4eb41c9c01ee4286d75708d9c621fa19%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637758671496031493%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=ICDdqPAQzabsnKaheSUQ%2BlIJzRu4yjOURh4vvMssxP0%3D&amp;reserved=0
> Fmoon%2Fcloseup%2FRC500%2FMoon-
> RC500.html&data=04%7C01%7C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaa
> aaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637758664601298753%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIj
> oiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=dlCDTshQSqhx7fd6Si%2FNiwiVQt36NmkUS
> v1%2FaAw85oI%3D&reserved=0>
>
>
> GTOCP4 or GTOCP5
>
>
> --
> Roland Christen
> Astro-Physics
>







Ray Gralak
 

Seems doubtful. The lunar rate relative to the sidereal is about 1 Moon diameter per hour, 30’/h, 1800”/h,
0.5”/s, <0.1” per video frame. Tracking error that remains after a quick alignment with a polar scope might be
several times that, but still a fraction of atmospheric seeing.
You assume perfect sidereal/lunar tracking. Cumulative tracking error from polar alignment error, flexure, etc, can add up. In "lucky-imaging", even 0.1 arc-second per video frame may be measurable. Any tracking rate deviation from perfect will blur a video frame, even if it is ever so slight a blur.

-Ray


-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Howard Ritter via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 6:54 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?

Seems doubtful. The lunar rate relative to the sidereal is about 1 Moon diameter per hour, 30’/h, 1800”/h,
0.5”/s, <0.1” per video frame. Tracking error that remains after a quick alignment with a polar scope might be
several times that, but still a fraction of atmospheric seeing.

—howard

On Dec 23, 2021, at 9:39 AM, Ray Gralak <iogroups@...> wrote:

I have plenty more lunar and planetary images for anyone who would like to see them. None required good
tracking.
However, if tracking is improved, the number of good video frames you can use to create a final image
should go up.

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of thefamily90 Phillips
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 6:33 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?

I have plenty more lunar and planetary images for anyone who would like to see them. None required good
tracking.

Jim P

Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
________________________________

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of thefamily90 Phillips
<thefamily90@...>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 9:27:32 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?

You just do not need good tracking for lunar and planetary imaging.

JimP

Get Outlook for iOS
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2Fo0ukef&data=04%7C01%7
C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6377586
64601142507%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLC
JXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=%2BKDpGCpVFx%2FidB93bnWQU29gaQmVU9MrTBTBEdz7eLA%3D&rese
rved=0>
________________________________

From: jim phillips <thefamily90@...>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 9:26:20 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?

Image.jpeg


Get Outlook for iOS
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C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6377586
64601142507%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLC
JXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=%2BKDpGCpVFx%2FidB93bnWQU29gaQmVU9MrTBTBEdz7eLA%3D&rese
rved=0>
________________________________

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of thefamily90 Phillips
<thefamily90@...>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 9:24:21 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?

Image.jpegImage.jpeg

Get Outlook for iOS
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C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6377586
64601142507%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLC
JXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=%2BKDpGCpVFx%2FidB93bnWQU29gaQmVU9MrTBTBEdz7eLA%3D&rese
rved=0>
________________________________

From: jim phillips <thefamily90@...>
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2021 5:03:00 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?

Can't seem to upload an image right now. I'll work on it.

Jim P

Get Outlook for iOS
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C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6377586
64601298753%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLC
JXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=j2PYEw%2FkXzr3oUNV0y3sqejOhOyzFvL4ZtA64HAt%2FNA%3D&reserved
=0>
________________________________

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of thefamily90 Phillips
<thefamily90@...>
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2021 4:57:42 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?

Not sure why any lunar imager would need perfect tracking of the Moon. Everyone I know suit images the
moon and planets takes an AVI and then uses software to pick out the best frames then stack them and
once
stacked processed in various software programs. When stacking, an X can be placed on a particular crater
and the software stacking the images will stack them perfectly on that crater. Again, there is no need for
perfect tracking when imaging the lunar surface (or a planet's surface)
Here are a couple of images with a 10 inch triplet refractor and the image moved all over the screen while
tracking. None of my scopes are perfectly aligned especially when you consider what Astro photographers
scopes have to be. You just keep the image on the laptop screen and that's all you need to do.

JimP








Get Outlook for iOS
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=0>
________________________________

From: main@ap-gto..groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Roland Christen via groups.io
<chris1011@...>
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2021 4:13:00 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?

All the AP mounts have the capability of tracking non-stellar objects, including the Moon. If the ephemeris
is
known then APCC Horizons can track it. I will let ray comment on this since he is infinitely more
knowledgeable
on that subject.


Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: christian viladrich <c.viladrich@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Dec 22, 2021 1:25 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?


Hello AP users,

The apparent motion of the Moon with respect to the stars is usually approximated by 0.5 arsec/s.
However
this is an approximation and the true value changes from day to day (see delta alpha x cos delta
(arsec/min)
column in the table below).
This approximation is a real pain when doing high resolution images of the Moon with 14" telescopes or
larger.

By high resolution, I mean this kind of picture :

http://astrosurf.com/viladrich/astro/moon/closeup/RC500/Moretus-26octo2021-3h41UT-RC500-red-ASI1600-
rev.jpg
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fastrosurf.com%2Fviladrich%2Fastro%2
Fmoon%2Fcloseup%2FRC500%2FMoretus-26octo2021-3h41UT-RC500-red-ASI1600-
rev.jpg&data=04%7C01%7C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaa
aa%7C1%7C0%7C637758664601298753%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV
2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=7SsxmHyStMFBxgJw1FQH1rulyKxp7MMKRFcj
OLKpLsc%3D&reserved=0>
This one was taken with a 500 mm RC telescope on an AP1600 GTOCP4 mount. Smallest visible craters
are in
the range of 350 m. Because the lunar tracking speed is approximated, we have to constantly play with the
alpha slow motion to recenter the field imaged. This would be a huge improvement if we could have a
tracking
speed based on lunar ephemerid.
Would it be possible thanks to the increased power of the processors embedded in the GTOCP 4 or CP 5
?
I admit this is a very specialized demand, very far from the classic use of equatorial mounts.
Best regards
Christian Viladrich
http://astrosurf.com/viladrich/astro/moon/closeup/RC500/Moon-RC500.html
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fastrosurf.com%2Fviladrich%2Fastro%2
Fmoon%2Fcloseup%2FRC500%2FMoon-
RC500.html&data=04%7C01%7C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaa
aaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637758664601298753%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIj
oiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=dlCDTshQSqhx7fd6Si%2FNiwiVQt36NmkUS
v1%2FaAw85oI%3D&reserved=0>


GTOCP4 or GTOCP5


--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics







Ray Gralak
 

If you, for example, cannot get enough good frames from 10,000 avi frames, then the seeing is
not good enough to be imaging at all anyway.
What if every one of the good frames you captured was just a bit sharper because the tracking rate was more accurate? And if better
tracking doesn't help, why does Firecapture have the capability to track the moon?

-Ray


-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of thefamily90 Phillips
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 6:55 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?

Not really. Depends upon the tracking on the screen with Firecapture for example. Plus you don't really need
to deal with lunar rotation so you can literally fill up your hard drive with far more images than you could
possibly use. If you, for example, cannot get enough good frames from 10,000 avi frames, then the seeing is
not good enough to be imaging at all anyway.

JimP

Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
________________________________

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak
<iogroups@...>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 9:39:03 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?

I have plenty more lunar and planetary images for anyone who would like to see them. None required good
tracking.
However, if tracking is improved, the number of good video frames you can use to create a final image
should go up.

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of thefamily90 Phillips
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 6:33 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?

I have plenty more lunar and planetary images for anyone who would like to see them. None required good
tracking.

Jim P

Get Outlook for iOS
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2Fo0ukef&;data=04%7C
01%7C%7C4eb41c9c01ee4286d75708d9c621fa19%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63
7758671496031493%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1ha
WwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=wb%2BO1jFfJZYLlrtjVhCDHzD9eNMX9vhKpkv776fF0XQ%3D&
amp;reserved=0>
________________________________

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of thefamily90 Phillips
<thefamily90@...>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 9:27:32 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?

You just do not need good tracking for lunar and planetary imaging.

JimP

Get Outlook for iOS
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2Fo0ukef&;data=04%7C
01%7C%7C4eb41c9c01ee4286d75708d9c621fa19%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63
7758671496031493%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1ha
WwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=wb%2BO1jFfJZYLlrtjVhCDHzD9eNMX9vhKpkv776fF0XQ%3D&
amp;reserved=0
C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6377586
64601142507%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLC
JXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=%2BKDpGCpVFx%2FidB93bnWQU29gaQmVU9MrTBTBEdz7eLA%3D&rese
rved=0>
________________________________

From: jim phillips <thefamily90@...>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 9:26:20 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?

Image.jpeg


Get Outlook for iOS
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WwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=wb%2BO1jFfJZYLlrtjVhCDHzD9eNMX9vhKpkv776fF0XQ%3D&
amp;reserved=0
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________________________________

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of thefamily90 Phillips
<thefamily90@...>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 9:24:21 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?

Image.jpegImage.jpeg

Get Outlook for iOS
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01%7C%7C4eb41c9c01ee4286d75708d9c621fa19%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63
7758671496031493%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1ha
WwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=wb%2BO1jFfJZYLlrtjVhCDHzD9eNMX9vhKpkv776fF0XQ%3D&
amp;reserved=0
C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6377586
64601142507%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLC
JXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=%2BKDpGCpVFx%2FidB93bnWQU29gaQmVU9MrTBTBEdz7eLA%3D&rese
rved=0>
________________________________

From: jim phillips <thefamily90@...>
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2021 5:03:00 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?

Can't seem to upload an image right now. I'll work on it.

Jim P

Get Outlook for iOS
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2Fo0ukef&;data=04%7C
01%7C%7C4eb41c9c01ee4286d75708d9c621fa19%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63
7758671496031493%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1ha
WwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=wb%2BO1jFfJZYLlrtjVhCDHzD9eNMX9vhKpkv776fF0XQ%3D&
amp;reserved=0
C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6377586
64601298753%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLC
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=0>
________________________________

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of thefamily90 Phillips
<thefamily90@...>
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2021 4:57:42 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?

Not sure why any lunar imager would need perfect tracking of the Moon. Everyone I know suit images the
moon and planets takes an AVI and then uses software to pick out the best frames then stack them and
once
stacked processed in various software programs. When stacking, an X can be placed on a particular crater
and the software stacking the images will stack them perfectly on that crater. Again, there is no need for
perfect tracking when imaging the lunar surface (or a planet's surface)
Here are a couple of images with a 10 inch triplet refractor and the image moved all over the screen while
tracking. None of my scopes are perfectly aligned especially when you consider what Astro photographers
scopes have to be. You just keep the image on the laptop screen and that's all you need to do.

JimP








Get Outlook for iOS
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01%7C%7C4eb41c9c01ee4286d75708d9c621fa19%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63
7758671496031493%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1ha
WwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=wb%2BO1jFfJZYLlrtjVhCDHzD9eNMX9vhKpkv776fF0XQ%3D&
amp;reserved=0
C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6377586
64601298753%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLC
JXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=j2PYEw%2FkXzr3oUNV0y3sqejOhOyzFvL4ZtA64HAt%2FNA%3D&reserved
=0>
________________________________

From: main@ap-gto..groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Roland Christen via groups.io
<chris1011@...>
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2021 4:13:00 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?

All the AP mounts have the capability of tracking non-stellar objects, including the Moon. If the ephemeris is
known then APCC Horizons can track it. I will let ray comment on this since he is infinitely more
knowledgeable
on that subject.


Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: christian viladrich <c.viladrich@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Dec 22, 2021 1:25 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?


Hello AP users,

The apparent motion of the Moon with respect to the stars is usually approximated by 0.5 arsec/s. However
this is an approximation and the true value changes from day to day (see delta alpha x cos delta (arsec/min)
column in the table below).
This approximation is a real pain when doing high resolution images of the Moon with 14" telescopes or
larger.

By high resolution, I mean this kind of picture :

https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fastrosurf..com%2Fviladrich%2Fastro%2F
moon%2Fcloseup%2FRC500%2FMoretus-26octo2021-3h41UT-RC500-red-ASI1600-
&amp;data=04%7C01%7C%7C4eb41c9c01ee4286d75708d9c621fa19%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaa
a%7C1%7C0%7C637758671496031493%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2l
uMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=fYk10Z3yNBffVPUbr223IxGTGaUCAZX2I1e
%2FLDwwJAI%3D&amp;reserved=0
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fastrosurf.com%2Fviladrich%2Fastro%2
Fmoon%2Fcloseup%2FRC500%2FMoretus-26octo2021-3h41UT-RC500-red-ASI1600-
&amp;data=04%7C01%7C%7C4eb41c9c01ee4286d75708d9c621fa19%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaa
a%7C1%7C0%7C637758671496031493%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2l
uMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=fYk10Z3yNBffVPUbr223IxGTGaUCAZX2I1e
%2FLDwwJAI%3D&amp;reserved=0>
rev.jpg
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fastrosurf.com%2Fviladrich%2Fastro%2
5252&amp;data=04%7C01%7C%7C4eb41c9c01ee4286d75708d9c621fa19%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaa
aaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637758671496031493%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIj
oiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=ICDdqPAQzabsnKaheSUQ%2BlIJzRu4y
jOURh4vvMssxP0%3D&amp;reserved=0
Fmoon%2Fcloseup%2FRC500%2FMoretus-26octo2021-3h41UT-RC500-red-ASI1600-
rev.jpg&data=04%7C01%7C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaa
aa%7C1%7C0%7C637758664601298753%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV
2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=7SsxmHyStMFBxgJw1FQH1rulyKxp7MMKRFcj
OLKpLsc%3D&reserved=0>
This one was taken with a 500 mm RC telescope on an AP1600 GTOCP4 mount. Smallest visible craters are
in
the range of 350 m. Because the lunar tracking speed is approximated, we have to constantly play with the
alpha slow motion to recenter the field imaged. This would be a huge improvement if we could have a
tracking
speed based on lunar ephemerid.
Would it be possible thanks to the increased power of the processors embedded in the GTOCP 4 or CP 5 ?
I admit this is a very specialized demand, very far from the classic use of equatorial mounts.
Best regards
Christian Viladrich
https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fastrosurf..com%2Fviladrich%2Fastro%2F
moon%2Fcloseup%2FRC500%2FMoon-
RC500.html&amp;data=04%7C01%7C%7C4eb41c9c01ee4286d75708d9c621fa19%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aa
aaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637758671496031493%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAi
LCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=ncd%2FOajes0MHyF49%2F%2F
suLW08Z3oEAkimBWqPW%2FXXExI%3D&amp;reserved=0
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fastrosurf.com%2Fviladrich%2Fastro%2
Fmoon%2Fcloseup%2FRC500%2FMoon-
RC500.html&amp;data=04%7C01%7C%7C4eb41c9c01ee4286d75708d9c621fa19%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aa
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suLW08Z3oEAkimBWqPW%2FXXExI%3D&amp;reserved=0>
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fastrosurf.com%2Fviladrich%2Fastro%2
5252&amp;data=04%7C01%7C%7C4eb41c9c01ee4286d75708d9c621fa19%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaa
aaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637758671496031493%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIj
oiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=ICDdqPAQzabsnKaheSUQ%2BlIJzRu4y
jOURh4vvMssxP0%3D&amp;reserved=0
Fmoon%2Fcloseup%2FRC500%2FMoon-
RC500.html&data=04%7C01%7C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaa
aaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637758664601298753%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIj
oiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=dlCDTshQSqhx7fd6Si%2FNiwiVQt36NmkUS
v1%2FaAw85oI%3D&reserved=0>


GTOCP4 or GTOCP5


--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics







Roland Christen
 

I think you are all missing the issue. In this case it's a matter of the Moon moving enough in a few minutes that the scene moves out of the field of view. Therefore the user has to constantly re-center the scene manually. I've had that happen myself, even at the Lunar rate setting, so while I'm adjusting the focus or the camera exposure rates, the scene I want to image has moved and must be brought back manually. It also makes doing mosaics more difficult.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Howard Ritter via groups.io <howard.ritter@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Dec 23, 2021 8:53 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?

Seems doubtful. The lunar rate relative to the sidereal is about 1 Moon diameter per hour, 30’/h, 1800”/h, 0.5”/s, <0.1” per video frame. Tracking error that remains after a quick alignment with a polar scope might be several times that, but still a fraction of atmospheric seeing.

—howard

> On Dec 23, 2021, at 9:39 AM, Ray Gralak <iogroups@...> wrote:
>
>> I have plenty more lunar and planetary images for anyone who would like to see them. None required good
>> tracking.
>
> However, if tracking is improved, the number of good video frames you can use to create a final image should go up.
>
> -Ray
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of thefamily90 Phillips
>> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 6:33 AM
>> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
>>
>> I have plenty more lunar and planetary images for anyone who would like to see them. None required good
>> tracking.
>>
>> Jim P
>>
>> Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of thefamily90 Phillips
>> <thefamily90@...>
>> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 9:27:32 AM
>> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
>> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
>>
>> You just do not need good tracking for lunar and planetary imaging.
>>
>> JimP
>>
>> Get Outlook for iOS
>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2Fo0ukef&data=04%7C01%7
>> C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6377586
>> 64601142507%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLC
>> JXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=%2BKDpGCpVFx%2FidB93bnWQU29gaQmVU9MrTBTBEdz7eLA%3D&rese
>> rved=0>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: jim phillips <thefamily90@...>
>> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 9:26:20 AM
>> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
>> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
>>
>> Image.jpeg
>>
>>
>> Get Outlook for iOS
>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2Fo0ukef&data=04%7C01%7
>> C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6377586
>> 64601142507%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLC
>> JXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=%2BKDpGCpVFx%2FidB93bnWQU29gaQmVU9MrTBTBEdz7eLA%3D&rese
>> rved=0>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of thefamily90 Phillips
>> <thefamily90@...>
>> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 9:24:21 AM
>> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
>> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
>>
>> Image.jpegImage.jpeg
>>
>> Get Outlook for iOS
>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2Fo0ukef&data=04%7C01%7
>> C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6377586
>> 64601142507%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLC
>> JXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=%2BKDpGCpVFx%2FidB93bnWQU29gaQmVU9MrTBTBEdz7eLA%3D&rese
>> rved=0>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: jim phillips <thefamily90@...>
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2021 5:03:00 PM
>> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
>> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
>>
>> Can't seem to upload an image right now. I'll work on it.
>>
>> Jim P
>>
>> Get Outlook for iOS
>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2Fo0ukef&data=04%7C01%7
>> C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6377586
>> 64601298753%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLC
>> JXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=j2PYEw%2FkXzr3oUNV0y3sqejOhOyzFvL4ZtA64HAt%2FNA%3D&reserved
>> =0>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of thefamily90 Phillips
>> <thefamily90@...>
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2021 4:57:42 PM
>> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
>> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
>>
>> Not sure why any lunar imager would need perfect tracking of the Moon. Everyone I know suit images the
>> moon and planets takes an AVI and then uses software to pick out the best frames then stack them and once
>> stacked processed in various software programs. When stacking, an X can be placed on a particular crater
>> and the software stacking the images will stack them perfectly on that crater. Again, there is no need for
>> perfect tracking when imaging the lunar surface (or a planet's surface)
>> Here are a couple of images with a 10 inch triplet refractor and the image moved all over the screen while
>> tracking. None of my scopes are perfectly aligned especially when you consider what Astro photographers
>> scopes have to be. You just keep the image on the laptop screen and that's all you need to do.
>>
>> JimP
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Get Outlook for iOS
>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2Fo0ukef&data=04%7C01%7
>> C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6377586
>> 64601298753%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLC
>> JXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=j2PYEw%2FkXzr3oUNV0y3sqejOhOyzFvL4ZtA64HAt%2FNA%3D&reserved
>> =0>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: main@ap-gto..groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Roland Christen via groups.io
>> <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io>
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2021 4:13:00 PM
>> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
>> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
>>
>> All the AP mounts have the capability of tracking non-stellar objects, including the Moon. If the ephemeris is
>> known then APCC Horizons can track it. I will let ray comment on this since he is infinitely more knowledgeable
>> on that subject.
>>
>>
>> Rolando
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: christian viladrich <c.viladrich@...>
>> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
>> Sent: Wed, Dec 22, 2021 1:25 pm
>> Subject: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
>>
>>
>> Hello AP users,
>>
>> The apparent motion of the Moon with respect to the stars is usually approximated by 0.5 arsec/s. However
>> this is an approximation and the true value changes from day to day (see delta alpha x cos delta (arsec/min)
>> column in the table below).
>> This approximation is a real pain when doing high resolution images of the Moon with 14" telescopes or larger.
>>
>> By high resolution, I mean this kind of picture :
>>
>> http://astrosurf.com/viladrich/astro/moon/closeup/RC500/Moretus-26octo2021-3h41UT-RC500-red-ASI1600-
>> rev.jpg
>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fastrosurf.com%2Fviladrich%2Fastro%2
>> Fmoon%2Fcloseup%2FRC500%2FMoretus-26octo2021-3h41UT-RC500-red-ASI1600-
>> rev.jpg&data=04%7C01%7C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaa
>> aa%7C1%7C0%7C637758664601298753%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV
>> 2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=7SsxmHyStMFBxgJw1FQH1rulyKxp7MMKRFcj
>> OLKpLsc%3D&reserved=0>
>> This one was taken with a 500 mm RC telescope on an AP1600 GTOCP4 mount. Smallest visible craters are in
>> the range of 350 m. Because the lunar tracking speed is approximated, we have to constantly play with the
>> alpha slow motion to recenter the field imaged. This would be a huge improvement if we could have a tracking
>> speed based on lunar ephemerid.
>> Would it be possible thanks to the increased power of the processors embedded in the GTOCP 4 or CP 5 ?
>> I admit this is a very specialized demand, very far from the classic use of equatorial mounts.
>> Best regards
>> Christian Viladrich
>> http://astrosurf.com/viladrich/astro/moon/closeup/RC500/Moon-RC500.html
>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fastrosurf.com%2Fviladrich%2Fastro%2
>> Fmoon%2Fcloseup%2FRC500%2FMoon-
>> RC500.html&data=04%7C01%7C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaa
>> aaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637758664601298753%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIj
>> oiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=dlCDTshQSqhx7fd6Si%2FNiwiVQt36NmkUS
>> v1%2FaAw85oI%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>>
>> GTOCP4 or GTOCP5
>>
>>
>> --
>> Roland Christen
>> Astro-Physics
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>







--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


thefamily90 Phillips
 

No, I disagree. 
At 100 frames per second when I am imaging the moon I can get 10,000 frames in 100 seconds. No need to be concerned about adjusting focus or camera exposure rates or thinking the scene will move out of the field of view. Sometimes, if I am at a really long  focal length I will keep the interested feature in the center of the field of view using my AP 1200 go to keypad at 0.5 X. Been doing High Resolution imaging since 2003 with guidance from Steve Keene, Dave Tyler and Damian Peach. Here’s a Jupiter image we made at my house in 2012.

JimP

Image.jpeg


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011@...>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 11:28:26 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
 
I think you are all missing the issue. In this case it's a matter of the Moon moving enough in a few minutes that the scene moves out of the field of view. Therefore the user has to constantly re-center the scene manually. I've had that happen myself, even at the Lunar rate setting, so while I'm adjusting the focus or the camera exposure rates, the scene I want to image has moved and must be brought back manually. It also makes doing mosaics more difficult.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Howard Ritter via groups.io <howard.ritter@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Dec 23, 2021 8:53 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?

Seems doubtful. The lunar rate relative to the sidereal is about 1 Moon diameter per hour, 30’/h, 1800”/h, 0.5”/s, <0.1” per video frame. Tracking error that remains after a quick alignment with a polar scope might be several times that, but still a fraction of atmospheric seeing.

—howard

> On Dec 23, 2021, at 9:39 AM, Ray Gralak <iogroups@...> wrote:
>
>> I have plenty more lunar and planetary images for anyone who would like to see them. None required good
>> tracking.
>
> However, if tracking is improved, the number of good video frames you can use to create a final image should go up.
>
> -Ray
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of thefamily90 Phillips
>> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 6:33 AM
>> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
>>
>> I have plenty more lunar and planetary images for anyone who would like to see them. None required good
>> tracking.
>>
>> Jim P
>>
>> Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of thefamily90 Phillips
>> <thefamily90@...>
>> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 9:27:32 AM
>> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
>> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
>>
>> You just do not need good tracking for lunar and planetary imaging.
>>
>> JimP
>>
>> Get Outlook for iOS
>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2Fo0ukef&data=04%7C01%7
>> C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6377586
>> 64601142507%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLC
>> JXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=%2BKDpGCpVFx%2FidB93bnWQU29gaQmVU9MrTBTBEdz7eLA%3D&rese
>> rved=0>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: jim phillips <thefamily90@...>
>> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 9:26:20 AM
>> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
>> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
>>
>> Image.jpeg
>>
>>
>> Get Outlook for iOS
>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2Fo0ukef&data=04%7C01%7
>> C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6377586
>> 64601142507%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLC
>> JXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=%2BKDpGCpVFx%2FidB93bnWQU29gaQmVU9MrTBTBEdz7eLA%3D&rese
>> rved=0>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of thefamily90 Phillips
>> <thefamily90@...>
>> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 9:24:21 AM
>> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
>> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
>>
>> Image.jpegImage.jpeg
>>
>> Get Outlook for iOS
>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2Fo0ukef&data=04%7C01%7
>> C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6377586
>> 64601142507%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLC
>> JXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=%2BKDpGCpVFx%2FidB93bnWQU29gaQmVU9MrTBTBEdz7eLA%3D&rese
>> rved=0>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: jim phillips <thefamily90@...>
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2021 5:03:00 PM
>> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
>> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
>>
>> Can't seem to upload an image right now. I'll work on it.
>>
>> Jim P
>>
>> Get Outlook for iOS
>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2Fo0ukef&data=04%7C01%7
>> C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6377586
>> 64601298753%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLC
>> JXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=j2PYEw%2FkXzr3oUNV0y3sqejOhOyzFvL4ZtA64HAt%2FNA%3D&reserved
>> =0>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of thefamily90 Phillips
>> <thefamily90@...>
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2021 4:57:42 PM
>> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
>> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
>>
>> Not sure why any lunar imager would need perfect tracking of the Moon. Everyone I know suit images the
>> moon and planets takes an AVI and then uses software to pick out the best frames then stack them and once
>> stacked processed in various software programs. When stacking, an X can be placed on a particular crater
>> and the software stacking the images will stack them perfectly on that crater. Again, there is no need for
>> perfect tracking when imaging the lunar surface (or a planet's surface)
>> Here are a couple of images with a 10 inch triplet refractor and the image moved all over the screen while
>> tracking. None of my scopes are perfectly aligned especially when you consider what Astro photographers
>> scopes have to be. You just keep the image on the laptop screen and that's all you need to do.
>>
>> JimP
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Get Outlook for iOS
>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2Fo0ukef&data=04%7C01%7
>> C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6377586
>> 64601298753%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLC
>> JXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=j2PYEw%2FkXzr3oUNV0y3sqejOhOyzFvL4ZtA64HAt%2FNA%3D&reserved
>> =0>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: main@ap-gto..groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Roland Christen via groups.io
>> <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io>
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2021 4:13:00 PM
>> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
>> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
>>
>> All the AP mounts have the capability of tracking non-stellar objects, including the Moon. If the ephemeris is
>> known then APCC Horizons can track it. I will let ray comment on this since he is infinitely more knowledgeable
>> on that subject.
>>
>>
>> Rolando
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: christian viladrich <c.viladrich@...>
>> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
>> Sent: Wed, Dec 22, 2021 1:25 pm
>> Subject: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
>>
>>
>> Hello AP users,
>>
>> The apparent motion of the Moon with respect to the stars is usually approximated by 0.5 arsec/s. However
>> this is an approximation and the true value changes from day to day (see delta alpha x cos delta (arsec/min)
>> column in the table below).
>> This approximation is a real pain when doing high resolution images of the Moon with 14" telescopes or larger.
>>
>> By high resolution, I mean this kind of picture :
>>
>> http://astrosurf.com/viladrich/astro/moon/closeup/RC500/Moretus-26octo2021-3h41UT-RC500-red-ASI1600-
>> rev.jpg
>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fastrosurf.com%2Fviladrich%2Fastro%2
>> Fmoon%2Fcloseup%2FRC500%2FMoretus-26octo2021-3h41UT-RC500-red-ASI1600-
>> rev.jpg&data=04%7C01%7C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaa
>> aa%7C1%7C0%7C637758664601298753%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV
>> 2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=7SsxmHyStMFBxgJw1FQH1rulyKxp7MMKRFcj
>> OLKpLsc%3D&reserved=0>
>> This one was taken with a 500 mm RC telescope on an AP1600 GTOCP4 mount. Smallest visible craters are in
>> the range of 350 m. Because the lunar tracking speed is approximated, we have to constantly play with the
>> alpha slow motion to recenter the field imaged. This would be a huge improvement if we could have a tracking
>> speed based on lunar ephemerid.
>> Would it be possible thanks to the increased power of the processors embedded in the GTOCP 4 or CP 5 ?
>> I admit this is a very specialized demand, very far from the classic use of equatorial mounts.
>> Best regards
>> Christian Viladrich
>> http://astrosurf.com/viladrich/astro/moon/closeup/RC500/Moon-RC500.html
>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fastrosurf.com%2Fviladrich%2Fastro%2
>> Fmoon%2Fcloseup%2FRC500%2FMoon-
>> RC500.html&data=04%7C01%7C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaa
>> aaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637758664601298753%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIj
>> oiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=dlCDTshQSqhx7fd6Si%2FNiwiVQt36NmkUS
>> v1%2FaAw85oI%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>>
>> GTOCP4 or GTOCP5
>>
>>
>> --
>> Roland Christen
>> Astro-Physics
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>







--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


christian viladrich
 

Hello guys,

Thanks for your comments. I realize that I did not give enough background on the rationale of this demand.

Jim, I completely agree with you, you don't need good tracking to image the Moon or the planets (or the Sun).

As you probably know, you don't even need lunar tracking rate to image the Moon. I've done this for years when I had my C14 on my Takahashi NJP which only has sideral tracking.

In the same way, you don't need absolute encoders for deep-sky imaging, nor dual-pointing model, nor dual-tracking rate, nor a mount with < 4 arsec periodic error.

So why bother about all of that ? Because, in some situations, it makes things easier ;-)

Back to lunar imaging with a RC 500 mm f/8 :

- sampling is 0.08 arsec/pixel,

- field of view with an ASI290 is about 2.5 arcmin,

- exposure is from 10 to 25 ms,

- the AP 1600 is perfectly polar aligned in a dome.

For sure, there is no blurred image due to tracking. The problem is to keep the crater, rile, or whatever feature is imaged, centered in the 2.5 arcmin field during the 120 - 180 s long video. If the field is not centered all along the video, you only get in the final stacked image the part of the field which is common to all frames of the video. Too bad ...

It means that, most of the time, with such a narrow field (remember this is a 500 mm aperture telescope), you have to push very often the alpha button of the keypad to keep your field centered. BTW, lunar motion in delta is smaller. This is quite feasible of course as you can see with these lunar images :

http://astrosurf.com/viladrich/astro/moon/closeup/RC500/Moon-RC500.html

But after doing it for hours and nights, in a dome with temperature ranging from -5°C to -10°C, and your fingers getting cold, you just dream you have a more accurate lunar tracking ;-)

So, I was just wondering whether this could be possible to implement a more accurate lunar tracking thanks to the more powerful processors available now.

Still, I completely admit this is a very specific demand, which would benefit to a very limited number of users.

Best regards

Christian Viladrich

http://planetary-astronomy.com/

http://solar-astronomy-book.com/

Le 23/12/2021 à 16:01, Ray Gralak a écrit :
Seems doubtful. The lunar rate relative to the sidereal is about 1 Moon diameter per hour, 30’/h, 1800”/h,
0.5”/s, <0.1” per video frame. Tracking error that remains after a quick alignment with a polar scope might be
several times that, but still a fraction of atmospheric seeing.
You assume perfect sidereal/lunar tracking. Cumulative tracking error from polar alignment error, flexure, etc, can add up. In "lucky-imaging", even 0.1 arc-second per video frame may be measurable. Any tracking rate deviation from perfect will blur a video frame, even if it is ever so slight a blur.

-Ray


-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Howard Ritter via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 6:54 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?

Seems doubtful. The lunar rate relative to the sidereal is about 1 Moon diameter per hour, 30’/h, 1800”/h,
0.5”/s, <0.1” per video frame. Tracking error that remains after a quick alignment with a polar scope might be
several times that, but still a fraction of atmospheric seeing.

—howard

On Dec 23, 2021, at 9:39 AM, Ray Gralak <iogroups@...> wrote:

I have plenty more lunar and planetary images for anyone who would like to see them. None required good
tracking.
However, if tracking is improved, the number of good video frames you can use to create a final image
should go up.
-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of thefamily90 Phillips
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 6:33 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?

I have plenty more lunar and planetary images for anyone who would like to see them. None required good
tracking.

Jim P

Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
________________________________

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of thefamily90 Phillips
<thefamily90@...>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 9:27:32 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?

You just do not need good tracking for lunar and planetary imaging.

JimP

Get Outlook for iOS
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2Fo0ukef&data=04%7C01%7
C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6377586
64601142507%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLC
JXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=%2BKDpGCpVFx%2FidB93bnWQU29gaQmVU9MrTBTBEdz7eLA%3D&rese
rved=0>
________________________________

From: jim phillips <thefamily90@...>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 9:26:20 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?

Image.jpeg


Get Outlook for iOS
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2Fo0ukef&data=04%7C01%7
C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6377586
64601142507%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLC
JXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=%2BKDpGCpVFx%2FidB93bnWQU29gaQmVU9MrTBTBEdz7eLA%3D&rese
rved=0>
________________________________

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of thefamily90 Phillips
<thefamily90@...>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 9:24:21 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?

Image.jpegImage.jpeg

Get Outlook for iOS
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2Fo0ukef&data=04%7C01%7
C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6377586
64601142507%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLC
JXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=%2BKDpGCpVFx%2FidB93bnWQU29gaQmVU9MrTBTBEdz7eLA%3D&rese
rved=0>
________________________________

From: jim phillips <thefamily90@...>
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2021 5:03:00 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?

Can't seem to upload an image right now. I'll work on it.

Jim P

Get Outlook for iOS
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2Fo0ukef&data=04%7C01%7
C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6377586
64601298753%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLC
JXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=j2PYEw%2FkXzr3oUNV0y3sqejOhOyzFvL4ZtA64HAt%2FNA%3D&reserved
=0>
________________________________

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of thefamily90 Phillips
<thefamily90@...>
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2021 4:57:42 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?

Not sure why any lunar imager would need perfect tracking of the Moon. Everyone I know suit images the
moon and planets takes an AVI and then uses software to pick out the best frames then stack them and
once
stacked processed in various software programs. When stacking, an X can be placed on a particular crater
and the software stacking the images will stack them perfectly on that crater. Again, there is no need for
perfect tracking when imaging the lunar surface (or a planet's surface)
Here are a couple of images with a 10 inch triplet refractor and the image moved all over the screen while
tracking. None of my scopes are perfectly aligned especially when you consider what Astro photographers
scopes have to be. You just keep the image on the laptop screen and that's all you need to do.

JimP








Get Outlook for iOS
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2Fo0ukef&data=04%7C01%7
C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6377586
64601298753%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLC
JXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=j2PYEw%2FkXzr3oUNV0y3sqejOhOyzFvL4ZtA64HAt%2FNA%3D&reserved
=0>
________________________________

From: main@ap-gto..groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Roland Christen via groups.io
<chris1011@...>
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2021 4:13:00 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?

All the AP mounts have the capability of tracking non-stellar objects, including the Moon. If the ephemeris
is
known then APCC Horizons can track it. I will let ray comment on this since he is infinitely more
knowledgeable
on that subject.


Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: christian viladrich <c.viladrich@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Dec 22, 2021 1:25 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?


Hello AP users,

The apparent motion of the Moon with respect to the stars is usually approximated by 0.5 arsec/s.
However
this is an approximation and the true value changes from day to day (see delta alpha x cos delta
(arsec/min)
column in the table below).
This approximation is a real pain when doing high resolution images of the Moon with 14" telescopes or
larger.
By high resolution, I mean this kind of picture :

http://astrosurf.com/viladrich/astro/moon/closeup/RC500/Moretus-26octo2021-3h41UT-RC500-red-ASI1600-
rev.jpg
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fastrosurf.com%2Fviladrich%2Fastro%2
Fmoon%2Fcloseup%2FRC500%2FMoretus-26octo2021-3h41UT-RC500-red-ASI1600-
rev.jpg&data=04%7C01%7C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaa
aa%7C1%7C0%7C637758664601298753%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV
2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=7SsxmHyStMFBxgJw1FQH1rulyKxp7MMKRFcj
OLKpLsc%3D&reserved=0>
This one was taken with a 500 mm RC telescope on an AP1600 GTOCP4 mount. Smallest visible craters
are in
the range of 350 m. Because the lunar tracking speed is approximated, we have to constantly play with the
alpha slow motion to recenter the field imaged. This would be a huge improvement if we could have a
tracking
speed based on lunar ephemerid.
Would it be possible thanks to the increased power of the processors embedded in the GTOCP 4 or CP 5
?
I admit this is a very specialized demand, very far from the classic use of equatorial mounts.
Best regards
Christian Viladrich
http://astrosurf.com/viladrich/astro/moon/closeup/RC500/Moon-RC500.html
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fastrosurf.com%2Fviladrich%2Fastro%2
Fmoon%2Fcloseup%2FRC500%2FMoon-
RC500.html&data=04%7C01%7C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaa
aaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637758664601298753%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIj
oiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=dlCDTshQSqhx7fd6Si%2FNiwiVQt36NmkUS
v1%2FaAw85oI%3D&reserved=0>


GTOCP4 or GTOCP5


--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics








Roland Christen
 

The original question was how to keep the frame from shifting during an imaging session, since the Lunar rate is an average rate and the Moon does slowly drift even in a matter of a few minutes. So the user has to constantly adjust the position manually. It's not about trying to get a sharp image at the video rates. It's about the scene slowly drifting out of the view.

Roland

-----Original Message-----
From: thefamily90 Phillips <thefamily90@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Dec 23, 2021 10:48 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?

No, I disagree. 
At 100 frames per second when I am imaging the moon I can get 10,000 frames in 100 seconds. No need to be concerned about adjusting focus or camera exposure rates or thinking the scene will move out of the field of view. Sometimes, if I am at a really long  focal length I will keep the interested feature in the center of the field of view using my AP 1200 go to keypad at 0.5 X. Been doing High Resolution imaging since 2003 with guidance from Steve Keene, Dave Tyler and Damian Peach. Here’s a Jupiter image we made at my house in 2012.

JimP

Image.jpeg

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011@...>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 11:28:26 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
 
I think you are all missing the issue. In this case it's a matter of the Moon moving enough in a few minutes that the scene moves out of the field of view. Therefore the user has to constantly re-center the scene manually. I've had that happen myself, even at the Lunar rate setting, so while I'm adjusting the focus or the camera exposure rates, the scene I want to image has moved and must be brought back manually. It also makes doing mosaics more difficult.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Howard Ritter via groups.io <howard.ritter@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Dec 23, 2021 8:53 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?

Seems doubtful. The lunar rate relative to the sidereal is about 1 Moon diameter per hour, 30’/h, 1800”/h, 0.5”/s, <0.1” per video frame. Tracking error that remains after a quick alignment with a polar scope might be several times that, but still a fraction of atmospheric seeing.

—howard

> On Dec 23, 2021, at 9:39 AM, Ray Gralak <iogroups@...> wrote:
>
>> I have plenty more lunar and planetary images for anyone who would like to see them. None required good
>> tracking.
>
> However, if tracking is improved, the number of good video frames you can use to create a final image should go up.
>
> -Ray
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of thefamily90 Phillips
>> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 6:33 AM
>> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
>>
>> I have plenty more lunar and planetary images for anyone who would like to see them. None required good
>> tracking.
>>
>> Jim P
>>
>> Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of thefamily90 Phillips
>> <thefamily90@...>
>> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 9:27:32 AM
>> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
>> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
>>
>> You just do not need good tracking for lunar and planetary imaging.
>>
>> JimP
>>
>> Get Outlook for iOS
>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2Fo0ukef&data=04%7C01%7
>> C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6377586
>> 64601142507%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLC
>> JXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=%2BKDpGCpVFx%2FidB93bnWQU29gaQmVU9MrTBTBEdz7eLA%3D&rese
>> rved=0>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: jim phillips <thefamily90@...>
>> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 9:26:20 AM
>> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
>> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
>>
>> Image.jpeg
>>
>>
>> Get Outlook for iOS
>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2Fo0ukef&data=04%7C01%7
>> C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6377586
>> 64601142507%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLC
>> JXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=%2BKDpGCpVFx%2FidB93bnWQU29gaQmVU9MrTBTBEdz7eLA%3D&rese
>> rved=0>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of thefamily90 Phillips
>> <thefamily90@...>
>> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 9:24:21 AM
>> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
>> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
>>
>> Image.jpegImage.jpeg
>>
>> Get Outlook for iOS
>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2Fo0ukef&data=04%7C01%7
>> C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6377586
>> 64601142507%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLC
>> JXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=%2BKDpGCpVFx%2FidB93bnWQU29gaQmVU9MrTBTBEdz7eLA%3D&rese
>> rved=0>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: jim phillips <thefamily90@...>
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2021 5:03:00 PM
>> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
>> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
>>
>> Can't seem to upload an image right now. I'll work on it.
>>
>> Jim P
>>
>> Get Outlook for iOS
>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2Fo0ukef&data=04%7C01%7
>> C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6377586
>> 64601298753%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLC
>> JXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=j2PYEw%2FkXzr3oUNV0y3sqejOhOyzFvL4ZtA64HAt%2FNA%3D&reserved
>> =0>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of thefamily90 Phillips
>> <thefamily90@...>
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2021 4:57:42 PM
>> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
>> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
>>
>> Not sure why any lunar imager would need perfect tracking of the Moon. Everyone I know suit images the
>> moon and planets takes an AVI and then uses software to pick out the best frames then stack them and once
>> stacked processed in various software programs. When stacking, an X can be placed on a particular crater
>> and the software stacking the images will stack them perfectly on that crater. Again, there is no need for
>> perfect tracking when imaging the lunar surface (or a planet's surface)
>> Here are a couple of images with a 10 inch triplet refractor and the image moved all over the screen while
>> tracking. None of my scopes are perfectly aligned especially when you consider what Astro photographers
>> scopes have to be. You just keep the image on the laptop screen and that's all you need to do.
>>
>> JimP
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Get Outlook for iOS
>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2Fo0ukef&data=04%7C01%7
>> C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6377586
>> 64601298753%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLC
>> JXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=j2PYEw%2FkXzr3oUNV0y3sqejOhOyzFvL4ZtA64HAt%2FNA%3D&reserved
>> =0>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: main@ap-gto..groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Roland Christen via groups.io
>> <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io>
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2021 4:13:00 PM
>> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
>> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
>>
>> All the AP mounts have the capability of tracking non-stellar objects, including the Moon. If the ephemeris is
>> known then APCC Horizons can track it. I will let ray comment on this since he is infinitely more knowledgeable
>> on that subject.
>>
>>
>> Rolando
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: christian viladrich <c.viladrich@...>
>> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
>> Sent: Wed, Dec 22, 2021 1:25 pm
>> Subject: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
>>
>>
>> Hello AP users,
>>
>> The apparent motion of the Moon with respect to the stars is usually approximated by 0.5 arsec/s. However
>> this is an approximation and the true value changes from day to day (see delta alpha x cos delta (arsec/min)
>> column in the table below).
>> This approximation is a real pain when doing high resolution images of the Moon with 14" telescopes or larger.
>>
>> By high resolution, I mean this kind of picture :
>>
>> http://astrosurf.com/viladrich/astro/moon/closeup/RC500/Moretus-26octo2021-3h41UT-RC500-red-ASI1600-
>> rev.jpg
>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fastrosurf.com%2Fviladrich%2Fastro%2
>> Fmoon%2Fcloseup%2FRC500%2FMoretus-26octo2021-3h41UT-RC500-red-ASI1600-
>> rev.jpg&data=04%7C01%7C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaa
>> aa%7C1%7C0%7C637758664601298753%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV
>> 2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=7SsxmHyStMFBxgJw1FQH1rulyKxp7MMKRFcj
>> OLKpLsc%3D&reserved=0>
>> This one was taken with a 500 mm RC telescope on an AP1600 GTOCP4 mount. Smallest visible craters are in
>> the range of 350 m. Because the lunar tracking speed is approximated, we have to constantly play with the
>> alpha slow motion to recenter the field imaged. This would be a huge improvement if we could have a tracking
>> speed based on lunar ephemerid.
>> Would it be possible thanks to the increased power of the processors embedded in the GTOCP 4 or CP 5 ?
>> I admit this is a very specialized demand, very far from the classic use of equatorial mounts.
>> Best regards
>> Christian Viladrich
>> http://astrosurf.com/viladrich/astro/moon/closeup/RC500/Moon-RC500.html
>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fastrosurf.com%2Fviladrich%2Fastro%2
>> Fmoon%2Fcloseup%2FRC500%2FMoon-
>> RC500.html&data=04%7C01%7C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaa
>> aaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637758664601298753%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIj
>> oiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=dlCDTshQSqhx7fd6Si%2FNiwiVQt36NmkUS
>> v1%2FaAw85oI%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>>
>> GTOCP4 or GTOCP5
>>
>>
>> --
>> Roland Christen
>> Astro-Physics
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>







--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


christian viladrich
 

Yes, this is exactly what you said Rolando,

This is a real pain when you want to make mosaic at 0.08 arcsec/pixel sampling, and when your fingers are getting very cold, and you strive to keep awake after several successive 12-hour long nights 😉

Christian


Le 23/12/2021 à 16:28, Roland Christen via groups.io a écrit :
I think you are all missing the issue. In this case it's a matter of the Moon moving enough in a few minutes that the scene moves out of the field of view. Therefore the user has to constantly re-center the scene manually. I've had that happen myself, even at the Lunar rate setting, so while I'm adjusting the focus or the camera exposure rates, the scene I want to image has moved and must be brought back manually. It also makes doing mosaics more difficult.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Howard Ritter via groups.io <howard.ritter@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Dec 23, 2021 8:53 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?

Seems doubtful. The lunar rate relative to the sidereal is about 1 Moon diameter per hour, 30’/h, 1800”/h, 0.5”/s, <0.1” per video frame. Tracking error that remains after a quick alignment with a polar scope might be several times that, but still a fraction of atmospheric seeing.

—howard

> On Dec 23, 2021, at 9:39 AM, Ray Gralak <iogroups@...> wrote:
>
>> I have plenty more lunar and planetary images for anyone who would like to see them. None required good
>> tracking.
>
> However, if tracking is improved, the number of good video frames you can use to create a final image should go up.
>
> -Ray
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of thefamily90 Phillips
>> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 6:33 AM
>> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
>>
>> I have plenty more lunar and planetary images for anyone who would like to see them. None required good
>> tracking.
>>
>> Jim P
>>
>> Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of thefamily90 Phillips
>> <thefamily90@...>
>> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 9:27:32 AM
>> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
>> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
>>
>> You just do not need good tracking for lunar and planetary imaging.
>>
>> JimP
>>
>> Get Outlook for iOS
>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2Fo0ukef&data=04%7C01%7
>> C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6377586
>> 64601142507%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLC
>> JXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=%2BKDpGCpVFx%2FidB93bnWQU29gaQmVU9MrTBTBEdz7eLA%3D&rese
>> rved=0>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: jim phillips <thefamily90@...>
>> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 9:26:20 AM
>> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
>> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
>>
>> Image.jpeg
>>
>>
>> Get Outlook for iOS
>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2Fo0ukef&data=04%7C01%7
>> C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6377586
>> 64601142507%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLC
>> JXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=%2BKDpGCpVFx%2FidB93bnWQU29gaQmVU9MrTBTBEdz7eLA%3D&rese
>> rved=0>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of thefamily90 Phillips
>> <thefamily90@...>
>> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2021 9:24:21 AM
>> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
>> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
>>
>> Image.jpegImage.jpeg
>>
>> Get Outlook for iOS
>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2Fo0ukef&data=04%7C01%7
>> C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6377586
>> 64601142507%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLC
>> JXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=%2BKDpGCpVFx%2FidB93bnWQU29gaQmVU9MrTBTBEdz7eLA%3D&rese
>> rved=0>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: jim phillips <thefamily90@...>
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2021 5:03:00 PM
>> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
>> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
>>
>> Can't seem to upload an image right now. I'll work on it.
>>
>> Jim P
>>
>> Get Outlook for iOS
>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2Fo0ukef&data=04%7C01%7
>> C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6377586
>> 64601298753%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLC
>> JXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=j2PYEw%2FkXzr3oUNV0y3sqejOhOyzFvL4ZtA64HAt%2FNA%3D&reserved
>> =0>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of thefamily90 Phillips
>> <thefamily90@...>
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2021 4:57:42 PM
>> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
>> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
>>
>> Not sure why any lunar imager would need perfect tracking of the Moon. Everyone I know suit images the
>> moon and planets takes an AVI and then uses software to pick out the best frames then stack them and once
>> stacked processed in various software programs. When stacking, an X can be placed on a particular crater
>> and the software stacking the images will stack them perfectly on that crater. Again, there is no need for
>> perfect tracking when imaging the lunar surface (or a planet's surface)
>> Here are a couple of images with a 10 inch triplet refractor and the image moved all over the screen while
>> tracking. None of my scopes are perfectly aligned especially when you consider what Astro photographers
>> scopes have to be. You just keep the image on the laptop screen and that's all you need to do.
>>
>> JimP
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Get Outlook for iOS
>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2Fo0ukef&data=04%7C01%7
>> C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6377586
>> 64601298753%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLC
>> JXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=j2PYEw%2FkXzr3oUNV0y3sqejOhOyzFvL4ZtA64HAt%2FNA%3D&reserved
>> =0>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: main@ap-gto..groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Roland Christen via groups.io
>> <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io>
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2021 4:13:00 PM
>> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
>> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
>>
>> All the AP mounts have the capability of tracking non-stellar objects, including the Moon. If the ephemeris is
>> known then APCC Horizons can track it. I will let ray comment on this since he is infinitely more knowledgeable
>> on that subject.
>>
>>
>> Rolando
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: christian viladrich <c.viladrich@...>
>> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
>> Sent: Wed, Dec 22, 2021 1:25 pm
>> Subject: [ap-gto] Improved lunar tracking speed ?
>>
>>
>> Hello AP users,
>>
>> The apparent motion of the Moon with respect to the stars is usually approximated by 0.5 arsec/s. However
>> this is an approximation and the true value changes from day to day (see delta alpha x cos delta (arsec/min)
>> column in the table below).
>> This approximation is a real pain when doing high resolution images of the Moon with 14" telescopes or larger.
>>
>> By high resolution, I mean this kind of picture :
>>
>> http://astrosurf.com/viladrich/astro/moon/closeup/RC500/Moretus-26octo2021-3h41UT-RC500-red-ASI1600-
>> rev.jpg
>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fastrosurf.com%2Fviladrich%2Fastro%2
>> Fmoon%2Fcloseup%2FRC500%2FMoretus-26octo2021-3h41UT-RC500-red-ASI1600-
>> rev.jpg&data=04%7C01%7C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaa
>> aa%7C1%7C0%7C637758664601298753%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV
>> 2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=7SsxmHyStMFBxgJw1FQH1rulyKxp7MMKRFcj
>> OLKpLsc%3D&reserved=0>
>> This one was taken with a 500 mm RC telescope on an AP1600 GTOCP4 mount. Smallest visible craters are in
>> the range of 350 m. Because the lunar tracking speed is approximated, we have to constantly play with the
>> alpha slow motion to recenter the field imaged. This would be a huge improvement if we could have a tracking
>> speed based on lunar ephemerid.
>> Would it be possible thanks to the increased power of the processors embedded in the GTOCP 4 or CP 5 ?
>> I admit this is a very specialized demand, very far from the classic use of equatorial mounts.
>> Best regards
>> Christian Viladrich
>> http://astrosurf.com/viladrich/astro/moon/closeup/RC500/Moon-RC500.html
>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fastrosurf.com%2Fviladrich%2Fastro%2
>> Fmoon%2Fcloseup%2FRC500%2FMoon-
>> RC500.html&data=04%7C01%7C%7C5164fc3adb01473f89cf08d9c6205ec0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaa
>> aaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637758664601298753%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIj
>> oiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=dlCDTshQSqhx7fd6Si%2FNiwiVQt36NmkUS
>> v1%2FaAw85oI%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>>
>> GTOCP4 or GTOCP5
>>
>>
>> --
>> Roland Christen
>> Astro-Physics
>>
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--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics