GTO vs AE/AEL data #Absolute_Encoders


RogerM
 

Hi folks:

I posted a similar question in CN; after a few responses I realized I might have to come to the source. 

Here is my question:

I currently own a 900GTO, have a 2018 AP1100 arriving soon and also a AP1100AEL due late this year, do you have any data from either PI or other source, that the actual FWHM or Eccentricity values were tighter/better with the encoders?

 

I would like concrete data at the image not PHD2 graphs which are meaningless anyway...

 

If you did see improvement: At what scale and what seeing conditions it took to see the improvement?

Thanks so much for your time and wisdom,

Roger M


Roland Christen
 

On Aug 19 Mr. Linwood posted some results comparing his new 1100AE mount to previous mounts that he owned. Below is his post, which might be informative to you:


" I’ve only had 3 nights I could image, but have been doing objects I did with other mounts to compare (I saved the old subs).  Wanted to share a typical result.
 
This is Sii for the bubble nebula at 2800mm, 300s images, at 0.277”/pix, FWHM is in arcseconds.  The left 3/4 or so were from a CEM70G, the right is from the AP1100.  The left were heavily culled to get more consistency, the right is EVERY SINGLE SUB from last night.  Same camera, OTA, imaging train… just different mounts.
 
I also have similar for the MyT, the main difference is on the MyT I didn’t have to cull so much.
 
It’s easy to think it may be night to night variation (and some may be) but every target is like this.  The jagged left side is three separate nights.  What impresses me is not just that the stars are smaller points, but the consistency – that flat line on the right is about 5 hours, over maybe 20 degrees altitude (at a guess), and did I mention every single sub included, no culling.
 
THAT’s why waiting is worthwhile!
 
Linwood
 
 

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


RogerM
 

Hi Roland:

Thanks for your reply. I was hoping for concrete data but up to now, nobody has had much of a data set or even a good comparison. I will keep fishing :)


Roland Christen
 


I was hoping for concrete data
Linwood's chart showed concrete data of star sizes. What kind of data are you looking for?

Roland


-----Original Message-----
From: RogerM <rogezeus2003@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Sat, Aug 28, 2021 5:13 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] GTO vs AE/AEL data #Absolute_Encoders

Hi Roland:

Thanks for your reply. I was hoping for concrete data but up to now, nobody has had much of a data set or even a good comparison. I will keep fishing :)

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


RogerM
 

Hi Roland:

Linwood’s data compares a CEM70 vs the 1100AE. I would argue that an AP mount, be a 900GTO or 1100AE should show an improvement in FWHM m/eccentricity over a CEM. 

I’m looking for solid data of GTO vs AE/AEL. In other words, at what scale and at what seeing quality do you see an improvement with the absolute encoders vs. a fully guided setup?

Thanks, Roger M


ap@CaptivePhotons.com
 

@Roger M wrote:

  • I’m looking for solid data of GTO vs AE/AEL. In other words, at what scale and at what seeing quality do you see an improvement with the absolute encoders vs. a fully guided setup?_._,_._,_

Roger and I corresponded a bit off line as well, and I am curious as well.

The MyT was much better than the CEM70G (even with their revised RA/DEC controller boards), but absolutely I can say that so far my results with the AP1100 are much more consistent than the MyT.  But… is that the heavier, better engineered mount or the encoders (or both, which is my guess).

My main motivation in choosing the encoders was a hope that in the dry season here, which also comes with a bit more wind at night, I would have more ability to image despite the sail I have on my tripod (otherwise known as a C11 with dew shield).  Previously, both CEM70G and MyT, it did not take much wind at all to show up as all sorts of eccentricity issues.  Gusts would show a spiderweb of protrusions from a star; steadier wind would just be ovals.

So my logic (aka rationalization) was I’d rather end up regretting spending extra money not needed than finding my new fancy AP mount did not really improve my wind performance.

I’ve had very few nights out so far, and exactly one of them started with some wind that quickly died down; nothing learned.  Perversely summer here, when everyone would love a breeze, often has nights with 100% humidity and no wind.

To date I have no idea, in calm winds, if I would see any difference (guided) with encoders off and on.  My GUESS is no difference in star visible shape, not sure if measurable.  I base that on endless reports how good non-encoder AP mounts are.  

But when the wind picks up a bit, it will all be worth it if I get another 3-4mph tolerance.  We do not have MUCH wind most winter nights, just too much for the non-encoder mounts that came before. 3-4mph might double the usable nights I get, easily.

So ask me again when (if) I ever get some time with clear nights.

(And yes, observatories, wind shields, all sort of discussions could be had here – but HOA rules and nightly teardowns limit what I can do, let’s please not go there for now).

Linwood


Chris White
 

It would be interesting to see a comparison between Non AE mount and AE mount, however using my experience with my 900GTO where I regularly guide at around 0.3"/px and EVERY single sub, night after night has tiny pinpoint stars and seeing limited FWHM I can't imagine that an encoder would do any better.... except when it comes to unguided imaging. 

I had a CEM60 and CEM70 prior to buying my 900GTO, and frankly, the GTO blows the doors off the CEM mounts. 

So, I am happy to be corrected, but I think the real benefit of AE is so that you dont need to guide.  If you plan on guiding I dont expect any difference visible (or measurable) in the final data.  That said, I'm also using a 200 point model with APCC as well as PEC correction... so even with my 900GTO I stack the deck in my favor. 

Granted, I have average seeing here in the Northeast, so that's my real limiter for high resolution imaging.  Maybe in NM or Chile you could see a more meaningful improvement when comparing the two mounts. 


J. Belden
 

While I do not have an data that would prove the AE/AEL encoders helped my imaging out, I can say that I have lived in Midland,TX for 3 years and prior to owning my AP1600 AE mount. I wouldn’t try imaging when the winds were over 15 mph/hr. Though, I did upgrade from an AP1100 non AE, so was my improvement based on the load capacity? I think maybe some but I have had many episodes where a sudden gust of wind would normally cause me to dump those frames but with the AP1600 AE, I have lost more frames due to ie satellites or planes. I believe without personally needing to conduct a bunch of tests to prove or disprove, that the AE option was well spent money. However, ever since I bought my first AP mount (Mach1) that my constant fiddle with mounts went away and I could use my time just imaging. Keep in mind that I use astronomy as a pure escape from work so the less I need to engineer something the better otherwise it will become work to me. Oh, I typically had an AGO 12.5/TOA130 with an STXL6303/FW/AOX as my imaging load.
Finally, in the beginning I didn’t believe I would benefit much from the AE option. I really don’t care if I need to autoguide some verses the cost difference but hindsight being able to image when the winds blow moderately has allowed me to setup more nights instead of watching grit tv.

Joe Belden


Roland Christen
 

I have always found that our encoder mounts track more accurately than the same mount with encoders turned off. Theoretically both guiding and the use of a precision encoder can track a precise point in the sky, but they do it in a different way.

With encoders engaged, there is instant feedback to the servo controller to move the axis back to a precise point when the axis has been disturbed (wind, cable drag or other outside force). This is accomplished very rapidly in milliseconds and very accurately down to sub-arc sec levels. In the Dec axis there is another benefit in that every small error is countered whether it requires reversal of direction or not. That means that the axis moves 1 arc second when commanded to move that distance by a single guide command, regardless of direction or reversal.

Without encoders, the RA tracking can indeed be smooth and accurate down to below 1 arc sec by using PEM compensating curve that reduces the periodic error. However, if the axis is disturbed by an external force, even a small one like a dragging cable, the actual path that the scope takes will be slightly off the commanded path. In the Dec axis an external force can move the actual shaft angle by several arc seconds, and the axis will not come back by itself.
But of course having a guider monitor a guide star can detect an error of several arc seconds and bring the star back to zero. But this takes time, depending on the guide exposure time, download speed, etc. Plus, if the star is twinkling, your calculated centroid can very easily jump around several arc seconds, if you take very many fast exposures. Finally, most all mounts have some Dec backlash delay, so if the command to reverse comes along it might take several commands for the axis to actually respond and move the guide star towards zero. During all this time the imaging camera will be taking the exposure in slightly the wrong position.

Bottom line:
With encoder mounts the axes always go to the commanded position within about 0.15 arc sec. If disturbed, they recover very fast to that very same position. Basically this is stiffening the mount to external forces. Guiding then becomes a slow process that updates the mount's axes to nudge it along to keep up with the much slower star drift that may or may not occur.

With non-encoder mounts you have to rely on guiding to close the loop, and this is a slower acting method that also relies on the skies being stable. So, guiding has several functions, not only to compensate for the slow star drift, but also to keep bringing the guide star back to zero when external forces cause it to deviate.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: ap@... <ap@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Aug 28, 2021 6:53 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] GTO vs AE/AEL data #Absolute_Encoders

@Roger M wrote:
  • I’m looking for solid data of GTO vs AE/AEL. In other words, at what scale and at what seeing quality do you see an improvement with the absolute encoders vs. a fully guided setup?

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Chris White
 

Great description Roland.  Thank you.  I've been flipping a coin about going with a Mach2 or an 1100GTO (Non-AE) for a while now, and the coin has not landed yet.  Since I dont expect to get a really big scope (Happy with my 130 and Edge 925) I'm likely leaning towards the M2.  Your description has been helpful to describe the real benefit of Encoders. 


ap@CaptivePhotons.com
 

Chris White wrote:

 

  • I've been flipping a coin about going with a Mach2 or an 1100GTO (Non-AE) for a while now, and the coin has not landed yet.  Since I dont expect to get a really big scope (Happy with my 130 and Edge 925) I'm likely leaning towards the M2.  Your description has been helpful to describe the real benefit of Encoders. 

 

Deciding by careful analysis, mathematical simulations, a bit of game theory.  Throw in some non-parametric probability theory to maximize the expected benefits….

 

Then ignore it all and do the obvious:  Both.

 

In all seriousness, unless that’s a magic coin, it’s not like you can get both at once anyway.  Take the one you can get first, use it while waiting on the second, you can always then switch easily as you would not have trouble selling the first if you decided, with that experience, you want the other, or if not, give up your place in line for the other for someone else.  Or by then you might actually want both.

 

Once you go ahead and get on both lists, you can celebrate with a nice dinner where someone will offer desert of Apple Pie or Ice Cream.  You will be prepared for this choice, and quickly say: Both.

 

😊

 

Linwood

 

 

 

 

 

 


Jeff B
 

Yes, a great description Roland and thanks.  Now if the encoders are engaged, do they also respond similarly to vibrations induced when manually focusing?  Curious.

Jeff

On Tue, Aug 31, 2021 at 8:39 AM ap@... <ap@...> wrote:

Chris White wrote:

 

  • I've been flipping a coin about going with a Mach2 or an 1100GTO (Non-AE) for a while now, and the coin has not landed yet.  Since I dont expect to get a really big scope (Happy with my 130 and Edge 925) I'm likely leaning towards the M2.  Your description has been helpful to describe the real benefit of Encoders. 

 

Deciding by careful analysis, mathematical simulations, a bit of game theory.  Throw in some non-parametric probability theory to maximize the expected benefits….

 

Then ignore it all and do the obvious:  Both.

 

In all seriousness, unless that’s a magic coin, it’s not like you can get both at once anyway.  Take the one you can get first, use it while waiting on the second, you can always then switch easily as you would not have trouble selling the first if you decided, with that experience, you want the other, or if not, give up your place in line for the other for someone else.  Or by then you might actually want both.

 

Once you go ahead and get on both lists, you can celebrate with a nice dinner where someone will offer desert of Apple Pie or Ice Cream.  You will be prepared for this choice, and quickly say: Both.

 

😊

 

Linwood

 

 

 

 

 

 


Roland Christen
 


you can celebrate with a nice dinner where someone will offer desert of Apple Pie or Ice Cream.  You will be prepared for this choice, and quickly say: Both.
Tada100Heavy check mark

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: ap@... <ap@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Tue, Aug 31, 2021 7:38 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] GTO vs AE/AEL data #Absolute_Encoders

Chris White wrote:
 
  • I've been flipping a coin about going with a Mach2 or an 1100GTO (Non-AE) for a while now, and the coin has not landed yet.  Since I dont expect to get a really big scope (Happy with my 130 and Edge 925) I'm likely leaning towards the M2.  Your description has been helpful to describe the real benefit of Encoders. 
 
Deciding by careful analysis, mathematical simulations, a bit of game theory.  Throw in some non-parametric probability theory to maximize the expected benefits….
 
Then ignore it all and do the obvious:  Both.
 
In all seriousness, unless that’s a magic coin, it’s not like you can get both at once anyway.  Take the one you can get first, use it while waiting on the second, you can always then switch easily as you would not have trouble selling the first if you decided, with that experience, you want the other, or if not, give up your place in line for the other for someone else.  Or by then you might actually want both.
 
Once you go ahead and get on both lists, you can celebrate with a nice dinner where someone will offer desert of Apple Pie or Ice Cream.  You will be prepared for this choice, and quickly say: Both.
 
😊
 
Linwood
 
 
 
 
 
 

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Roland Christen
 

When you focus manually you are moving the camera. Ideally the focuser drawtube moves exactly back and forth and never side to side. However, the world is not ideal, sooo you will get some star motions but not necessarily axis motions. The encoder cannot pick up camera motion, only axis motion.

Also, the disturbance is at the end of a long moment arm and will always be somewhat erratic, so the encoders are chasing random motions that are coming fast and furious. When you let go of the focus knob and lock the focuser back down, then things settle and the guide star should appear on the same pixel again - unless locking down the focuser shifts the camera sideways a tiny amount. Again the encoders cannot pick this up either.

Practically speaking, I try not to focus manually while the camera is taking an image.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff B <mnebula946@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Aug 31, 2021 8:33 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] GTO vs AE/AEL data #Absolute_Encoders

Yes, a great description Roland and thanks.  Now if the encoders are engaged, do they also respond similarly to vibrations induced when manually focusing?  Curious.

Jeff

On Tue, Aug 31, 2021 at 8:39 AM ap@... <ap@...> wrote:
Chris White wrote:
 
  • I've been flipping a coin about going with a Mach2 or an 1100GTO (Non-AE) for a while now, and the coin has not landed yet.  Since I dont expect to get a really big scope (Happy with my 130 and Edge 925) I'm likely leaning towards the M2.  Your description has been helpful to describe the real benefit of Encoders. 
 
Deciding by careful analysis, mathematical simulations, a bit of game theory.  Throw in some non-parametric probability theory to maximize the expected benefits….
 
Then ignore it all and do the obvious:  Both.
 
In all seriousness, unless that’s a magic coin, it’s not like you can get both at once anyway.  Take the one you can get first, use it while waiting on the second, you can always then switch easily as you would not have trouble selling the first if you decided, with that experience, you want the other, or if not, give up your place in line for the other for someone else.  Or by then you might actually want both.
 
Once you go ahead and get on both lists, you can celebrate with a nice dinner where someone will offer desert of Apple Pie or Ice Cream.  You will be prepared for this choice, and quickly say: Both.
 
😊
 
Linwood
 
 
 
 
 
 

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Jeff B
 

Thanks Roland, I'm a visual user for now and there are sometimes some vibrations while focusing, which, if the system is bouncy enough, can make focusing at high power a bit challenging, especially if it's a sort of high frequency ringing.   I was just wondering if the encoders might effectively dampen some of the jiggles.  

Jeff

On Tue, Aug 31, 2021 at 11:22 AM Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
When you focus manually you are moving the camera. Ideally the focuser drawtube moves exactly back and forth and never side to side. However, the world is not ideal, sooo you will get some star motions but not necessarily axis motions. The encoder cannot pick up camera motion, only axis motion.

Also, the disturbance is at the end of a long moment arm and will always be somewhat erratic, so the encoders are chasing random motions that are coming fast and furious. When you let go of the focus knob and lock the focuser back down, then things settle and the guide star should appear on the same pixel again - unless locking down the focuser shifts the camera sideways a tiny amount. Again the encoders cannot pick this up either.

Practically speaking, I try not to focus manually while the camera is taking an image.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff B <mnebula946@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Aug 31, 2021 8:33 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] GTO vs AE/AEL data #Absolute_Encoders

Yes, a great description Roland and thanks.  Now if the encoders are engaged, do they also respond similarly to vibrations induced when manually focusing?  Curious.

Jeff

On Tue, Aug 31, 2021 at 8:39 AM ap@... <ap@...> wrote:
Chris White wrote:
 
  • I've been flipping a coin about going with a Mach2 or an 1100GTO (Non-AE) for a while now, and the coin has not landed yet.  Since I dont expect to get a really big scope (Happy with my 130 and Edge 925) I'm likely leaning towards the M2.  Your description has been helpful to describe the real benefit of Encoders. 
 
Deciding by careful analysis, mathematical simulations, a bit of game theory.  Throw in some non-parametric probability theory to maximize the expected benefits….
 
Then ignore it all and do the obvious:  Both.
 
In all seriousness, unless that’s a magic coin, it’s not like you can get both at once anyway.  Take the one you can get first, use it while waiting on the second, you can always then switch easily as you would not have trouble selling the first if you decided, with that experience, you want the other, or if not, give up your place in line for the other for someone else.  Or by then you might actually want both.
 
Once you go ahead and get on both lists, you can celebrate with a nice dinner where someone will offer desert of Apple Pie or Ice Cream.  You will be prepared for this choice, and quickly say: Both.
 
😊
 
Linwood
 
 
 
 
 
 

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Roland Christen
 

If you are under-mounted the encoders may not help much. They won't respond to high frequency vibrations but will damp out low frequency motions and always bring the axes back to the commanded positions.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff B <mnebula946@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Aug 31, 2021 10:36 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] GTO vs AE/AEL data #Absolute_Encoders

Thanks Roland, I'm a visual user for now and there are sometimes some vibrations while focusing, which, if the system is bouncy enough, can make focusing at high power a bit challenging, especially if it's a sort of high frequency ringing.   I was just wondering if the encoders might effectively dampen some of the jiggles.  

Jeff

On Tue, Aug 31, 2021 at 11:22 AM Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
When you focus manually you are moving the camera. Ideally the focuser drawtube moves exactly back and forth and never side to side. However, the world is not ideal, sooo you will get some star motions but not necessarily axis motions. The encoder cannot pick up camera motion, only axis motion.

Also, the disturbance is at the end of a long moment arm and will always be somewhat erratic, so the encoders are chasing random motions that are coming fast and furious. When you let go of the focus knob and lock the focuser back down, then things settle and the guide star should appear on the same pixel again - unless locking down the focuser shifts the camera sideways a tiny amount. Again the encoders cannot pick this up either.

Practically speaking, I try not to focus manually while the camera is taking an image.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff B <mnebula946@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Aug 31, 2021 8:33 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] GTO vs AE/AEL data #Absolute_Encoders

Yes, a great description Roland and thanks.  Now if the encoders are engaged, do they also respond similarly to vibrations induced when manually focusing?  Curious.

Jeff

On Tue, Aug 31, 2021 at 8:39 AM ap@... <ap@...> wrote:
Chris White wrote:
 
  • I've been flipping a coin about going with a Mach2 or an 1100GTO (Non-AE) for a while now, and the coin has not landed yet.  Since I dont expect to get a really big scope (Happy with my 130 and Edge 925) I'm likely leaning towards the M2.  Your description has been helpful to describe the real benefit of Encoders. 
 
Deciding by careful analysis, mathematical simulations, a bit of game theory.  Throw in some non-parametric probability theory to maximize the expected benefits….
 
Then ignore it all and do the obvious:  Both.
 
In all seriousness, unless that’s a magic coin, it’s not like you can get both at once anyway.  Take the one you can get first, use it while waiting on the second, you can always then switch easily as you would not have trouble selling the first if you decided, with that experience, you want the other, or if not, give up your place in line for the other for someone else.  Or by then you might actually want both.
 
Once you go ahead and get on both lists, you can celebrate with a nice dinner where someone will offer desert of Apple Pie or Ice Cream.  You will be prepared for this choice, and quickly say: Both.
 
😊
 
Linwood
 
 
 
 
 
 

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Jeff B
 

Interesting and thanks Roland.  

Jeff

On Tue, Aug 31, 2021 at 11:53 AM Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
If you are under-mounted the encoders may not help much. They won't respond to high frequency vibrations but will damp out low frequency motions and always bring the axes back to the commanded positions.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff B <mnebula946@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Aug 31, 2021 10:36 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] GTO vs AE/AEL data #Absolute_Encoders

Thanks Roland, I'm a visual user for now and there are sometimes some vibrations while focusing, which, if the system is bouncy enough, can make focusing at high power a bit challenging, especially if it's a sort of high frequency ringing.   I was just wondering if the encoders might effectively dampen some of the jiggles.  

Jeff

On Tue, Aug 31, 2021 at 11:22 AM Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
When you focus manually you are moving the camera. Ideally the focuser drawtube moves exactly back and forth and never side to side. However, the world is not ideal, sooo you will get some star motions but not necessarily axis motions. The encoder cannot pick up camera motion, only axis motion.

Also, the disturbance is at the end of a long moment arm and will always be somewhat erratic, so the encoders are chasing random motions that are coming fast and furious. When you let go of the focus knob and lock the focuser back down, then things settle and the guide star should appear on the same pixel again - unless locking down the focuser shifts the camera sideways a tiny amount. Again the encoders cannot pick this up either.

Practically speaking, I try not to focus manually while the camera is taking an image.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff B <mnebula946@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Aug 31, 2021 8:33 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] GTO vs AE/AEL data #Absolute_Encoders

Yes, a great description Roland and thanks.  Now if the encoders are engaged, do they also respond similarly to vibrations induced when manually focusing?  Curious.

Jeff

On Tue, Aug 31, 2021 at 8:39 AM ap@... <ap@...> wrote:
Chris White wrote:
 
  • I've been flipping a coin about going with a Mach2 or an 1100GTO (Non-AE) for a while now, and the coin has not landed yet.  Since I dont expect to get a really big scope (Happy with my 130 and Edge 925) I'm likely leaning towards the M2.  Your description has been helpful to describe the real benefit of Encoders. 
 
Deciding by careful analysis, mathematical simulations, a bit of game theory.  Throw in some non-parametric probability theory to maximize the expected benefits….
 
Then ignore it all and do the obvious:  Both.
 
In all seriousness, unless that’s a magic coin, it’s not like you can get both at once anyway.  Take the one you can get first, use it while waiting on the second, you can always then switch easily as you would not have trouble selling the first if you decided, with that experience, you want the other, or if not, give up your place in line for the other for someone else.  Or by then you might actually want both.
 
Once you go ahead and get on both lists, you can celebrate with a nice dinner where someone will offer desert of Apple Pie or Ice Cream.  You will be prepared for this choice, and quickly say: Both.
 
😊
 
Linwood
 
 
 
 
 
 

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Chris White
 

On Tue, Aug 31, 2021 at 08:39 AM, ap@... wrote:
Once you go ahead and get on both lists, you can celebrate with a nice dinner where someone will offer desert of Apple Pie or Ice Cream.  You will be prepared for this choice, and quickly say: Both.
The good news is, I put my name on both lists earlier this summer!  So... now onto more important discussion:  Pie or cake? 


ap@CaptivePhotons.com
 

Chris wrote:

 

  • > Once you go ahead and get on both lists, you can celebrate with a nice dinner where someone will offer desert of Apple Pie or Ice Cream.  You will be prepared for this choice, and quickly say: Both.
  • The good news is, I put my name on both lists earlier this summer!  So... now onto more important discussion:  Pie or cake? 

_._,_._,_

So if I understand (and I maybe do not) the AP1100 production is done, you missed that. I think 1600’s are next, maybe then Mach 2 again, and that list is usually long.   So my GUESS is you will get a Mach 2 call before the AP1100 call, by months at least, and neither until next year.

 

You might want to call and check, they may not tell you precisely when, but they will probably give you a rough idea. I’m guessing you have a little more time to do the analytical modeling based on desert choices before you have to actually say “yes” to either mount.

 

With the exception of Apple pie, which I usually take over most anything, I would say “Cake”.  Well, if “both” is not an option.

 

The good news is that even despite Covid, we generally do not need to be on a waiting list months long to get desert.  😊

 

The bad news is that I have a physical coming up, and I have not been on a waiting list for desert.  

 

Linwood


Chris White
 

On Tue, Aug 31, 2021 at 08:24 PM, ap@... wrote:
So if I understand (and I maybe do not) the AP1100 production is done, you missed that. I think 1600’s are next, maybe then Mach 2 again, and that list is usually long.   So my GUESS is you will get a Mach 2 call before the AP1100 call, by months at least, and neither until next year.
I was actually on the list for the 1100 from last year but declined purchase in January when my name came up. I had just purchased a 900GTO and to be honest it is an exceptional mount and does everything I need it to.  I'm actually hoping that my name doesnt come up again for another year or more as I will be moving to darker skies and building a house where I can build a bigger observatory and have a second pier... so thankfully no rush on my end!

Going to the doctor is like the dentist.  My teeth are always fine until I go to the dentist... then I end up with a cavity.  Causation or correlation?