APPM Run vs Plate Solve and Recal


Geoffrey Collins
 

With the new APCC, I have been unable to successfully complete a pointing model.   I can slew to a star through APCC and solve successfully.   Pressing the button “Plate solving and recal” will solve and recal.  However if I start a run at the same point, I just did a solve and recal the solving fails.  Successive points also fail.  Last night I went through about 60 points and maybe 4 solved. Tonight I am having the same problem.  Help.

I have tried Pinpoint which I have previously used and ASTAP for the runs. 

I successfully completed a pointing run a couple of weeks again with the old version OF APCC/APPM using Pinpoint. The mount performed perfectly.  

I uninstalled APPC and reinstalled today.  That did not help.

Problem 2, I also get an error if I attempt to connect my camera in APPM through the NINA option. If I connect through ASCOM, the camera will work in APPM.  The error when connecting through the NINA option does send an error to log to AP.

Problem 3, I always park to Park 3.  When I unpark the next morning I have noticed pointing is off.  What I learned is to repark after initializing, then the mount slews counterweight to the west (RA), then I release the clutch carefully and place the mount in park 3.  Then the mount would point with precision with my old model. The mount would also park to the correct Park 3 position.  The only problem is I parking the first time for a night.  I assume this is a time setting issue somewhere or a improper location setting.  


 

Hi Geoffrey

have you looked at the errored plate solves in APPM and seen what error message you are getting?



On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 8:41 PM Geoffrey Collins via groups.io <geoffreycollins=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:

With the new APCC, I have been unable to successfully complete a pointing model.   I can slew to a star through APCC and solve successfully.   Pressing the button “Plate solving and recal” will solve and recal.  However if I start a run at the same point, I just did a solve and recal the solving fails.  Successive points also fail.  Last night I went through about 60 points and maybe 4 solved. Tonight I am having the same problem.  Help.

I have tried Pinpoint which I have previously used and ASTAP for the runs. 

I successfully completed a pointing run a couple of weeks again with the old version OF APCC/APPM using Pinpoint. The mount performed perfectly.  

I uninstalled APPC and reinstalled today.  That did not help.

Problem 2, I also get an error if I attempt to connect my camera in APPM through the NINA option. If I connect through ASCOM, the camera will work in APPM.  The error when connecting through the NINA option does send an error to log to AP.

Problem 3, I always park to Park 3.  When I unpark the next morning I have noticed pointing is off.  What I learned is to repark after initializing, then the mount slews counterweight to the west (RA), then I release the clutch carefully and place the mount in park 3.  Then the mount would point with precision with my old model. The mount would also park to the correct Park 3 position.  The only problem is I parking the first time for a night.  I assume this is a time setting issue somewhere or a improper location setting.  



--
Brian 



Brian Valente


Geoffrey Collins
 

Plate solve fail max time exceeded.   It is set to 35 seconds now.  Manual solves work almost immediately.  I just one and it solved in .4 seconds.  


Ray Gralak
 

Can you be more specific about which plate solver(s) worked and didn't? Are you saying both PinPoint and ASTAP failed tonight?

 

If you are using ASTAP, check that the image scale is still set correctly. I've had ASTAP "solve" but the solve had bad coordinates and set the wrong image scale.

 

BTW, if you haven't already, you can prevent APPM from deleting the FITS image by saving failed images as shown in the screen shot below. Then look for the file with the same name as the fits file but with an “.INI” extension. Open that file and look for a line that says “WARNING=” and that should contain the reason for the failed plate solve.

 

 

-Ray

 

> -----Original Message-----

> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Geoffrey Collins via groups.io

> Sent: Monday, August 23, 2021 8:42 PM

> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io

> Subject: [ap-gto] APPM Run vs Plate Solve and Recal

>

> With the new APCC, I have been unable to successfully complete a pointing model.   I can slew to a star through

> APCC and solve successfully.   Pressing the button “Plate solving and recal” will solve and recal.  However if I start

> a run at the same point, I just did a solve and recal the solving fails.  Successive points also fail.  Last night I went

> through about 60 points and maybe 4 solved. Tonight I am having the same problem.  Help.

>

> I have tried Pinpoint which I have previously used and ASTAP for the runs.

>

> I successfully completed a pointing run a couple of weeks again with the old version OF APCC/APPM using

> Pinpoint. The mount performed perfectly.

>

> I uninstalled APPC and reinstalled today.  That did not help.

>

> Problem 2, I also get an error if I attempt to connect my camera in APPM through the NINA option. If I connect

> through ASCOM, the camera will work in APPM.  The error when connecting through the NINA option does send an

> error to log to AP.

>

> Problem 3, I always park to Park 3.  When I unpark the next morning I have noticed pointing is off.  What I learned

> is to repark after initializing, then the mount slews counterweight to the west (RA), then I release the clutch carefully

> and place the mount in park 3.  Then the mount would point with precision with my old model. The mount would also

> park to the correct Park 3 position.  The only problem is I parking the first time for a night.  I assume this is a time

> setting issue somewhere or a improper location setting.

>


Ray Gralak
 

Also, make sure you are using the correct version of NINA. Some older versions of NINA do not support APPM.

If you haven't already, please refer to Dale Ghent's excellent link describing the details:

https://daleghent.com/nina-and-astro-physics-mounts


-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Geoffrey Collins via groups.io
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2021 8:55 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM Run vs Plate Solve and Recal

Plate solve fail max time exceeded. It is set to 35 seconds now. Manual solves work almost immediately. I just
one and it solved in .4 seconds.


Brent Boshart
 

Regarding problem #2 -  Make sure in NINA under "Options" and "General" that "Server Enabled" is on.


Geoffrey Collins
 

Thanks Brent.  Server was not enabled.  I enabled server and now NINA camera works with APPM.

Anyone have any ideas why plate solves fail in a mapping run but not if I click the button Plate Solve or Plate Solve and Recal?  Mapping run plate solves worked before the recent APCC update.

I also still have the parking issue above when starting up the first time each day.


Roland Christen
 

Usually parking issues are caused by unparking with one app and parking with a different app, if these apps have slightly different times. This does not occur in the Mach2, so I'm assuming you have another mount.

Roland



-----Original Message-----
From: Geoffrey Collins via groups.io <geoffreycollins@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Aug 24, 2021 8:54 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM Run vs Plate Solve and Recal

Thanks Brent.  Server was not enabled.  I enabled server and now NINA camera works with APPM.

Anyone have any ideas why plate solves fail in a mapping run but not if I click the button Plate Solve or Plate Solve and Recal?  Mapping run plate solves worked before the recent APCC update.

I also still have the parking issue above when starting up the first time each day.

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Geoffrey Collins
 

I have an 1100.  I always park with APCC.  It parks properly except for the first time each night.  Pointing is off significantly unless I repark after initialization and then loosen clutch in RA to get the mount back to zero/counter weight down.  I am sure I have a setting wrong somewhere.


Roland Christen
 

How do you unpark?

Roland


-----Original Message-----
From: Geoffrey Collins via groups.io <geoffreycollins@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Aug 24, 2021 9:07 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM Run vs Plate Solve and Recal

I have an 1100.  I always park with APCC.  It parks properly except for the first time each night.  Pointing is off significantly unless I repark after initialization and then loosen clutch in RA to get the mount back to zero/counter weight down.  I am sure I have a setting wrong somewhere.

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Geoffrey Collins
 

On initialization it unparks automatically.  I have it set not to unpark.  I remember from this group that there is a way to prevent automatic unpacking on initialization, but I have not gone back to review that post again.  After initialization during the night, I always unpark in APCC with Park 3 on the park tab rather than picking unpark from last position.

I keep trying to do a mapping run but the plate solves fail.  I can stop the mapping run and do a plate solve and the plate solve succeeds.  

Thank you for your help.  Your dedication to customers is unbelievable. I love the mount.  The through the mount cabling is great and the modular components for longevity with the ability to unhook the CP4 are genius.


Roland Christen
 


I always unpark in APCC with Park 3 on the park tab rather than picking unpark from last position.
That's your problem. Always unpark from last position.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Geoffrey Collins via groups.io <geoffreycollins@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Aug 24, 2021 9:44 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM Run vs Plate Solve and Recal

On initialization it unparks automatically.  I have it set not to unpark.  I remember from this group that there is a way to prevent automatic unpacking on initialization, but I have not gone back to review that post again.  After initialization during the night, I always unpark in APCC with Park 3 on the park tab rather than picking unpark from last position.

I keep trying to do a mapping run but the plate solves fail.  I can stop the mapping run and do a plate solve and the plate solve succeeds.  

Thank you for your help.  Your dedication to customers is unbelievable. I love the mount.  The through the mount cabling is great and the modular components for longevity with the ability to unhook the CP4 are genius.

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Ray Gralak
 

After initialization during the night, I always unpark in APCC with Park 3 on the park tab rather than picking
unpark from last position.
That's the problem. Don’t do that. You are losing the model's RA/Dec offset by doing that.

I keep trying to do a mapping run but the plate solves fail. I can stop the mapping run and do a plate solve and the
plate solve succeeds.
Have you followed the suggestions I made yesterday to determine why the plate solves are failing? One possibility is that you there wasn't enough settle time.

And BTW, if NINA was not set as a server you couldn't have used it to plate solve when you stopped the mapping run. Maybe you mis-remembered and were using ASCOM Camera control instead? And because you unparked from Park 3 the offset RA/Dec values can make some plate solves fail.

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Geoffrey Collins via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2021 7:45 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM Run vs Plate Solve and Recal

On initialization it unparks automatically. I have it set not to unpark. I remember from this group that there is a way
to prevent automatic unpacking on initialization, but I have not gone back to review that post again. After
initialization during the night, I always unpark in APCC with Park 3 on the park tab rather than picking unpark from
last position.

I keep trying to do a mapping run but the plate solves fail. I can stop the mapping run and do a plate solve and the
plate solve succeeds.

Thank you for your help. Your dedication to customers is unbelievable. I love the mount. The through the mount
cabling is great and the modular components for longevity with the ability to unhook the CP4 are genius.


Geoffrey Collins
 

Ok. Thank you.


Geoffrey Collins
 

Ray,

I can plate solve and the pointing is spot on for that particular point from then on.  If I try do do a mapping run the plate solves fail.  I can stop the mapping run at any point and do a plate solve that will solve.  I assume I have something is set up wrong in the mapping run.  But I could do a mapping run before the update.  


2s is the settle time.

I did try the high accuracy slew tonight. 

The plate solve when I press the Plate Solve or Plate Solve and Recal button is fractions of a second.  The max solve time is currently set to 35 seconds.

the error log solved max solve time exceeded but maybe I didn’t look in the correct place.  

The mount accuracy/RMS without the model is still great but not as good as it was when I had a model with only 32 points.  Pointing with the model was perfect.  Now it is a little off.

 


Ray Gralak
 

Geoffrey,

 

> The mount accuracy/RMS without the model is still great but not as good as it was when I had a model with only 32

> points.  Pointing with the model was perfect.  Now it is a little off.

 

All-sky modeling has not changed between 1.8.8.17 to 1.9.0.1 so whatever difference you are seeing is in the data you are collecting. If you are using a different plate solver, for instance, accuracy will be different.

 

> the error log solved max solve time exceeded but maybe I didn’t look in the correct place.

 

APPM should report an error. If you are using ASTAP I explained how to find the error in a previous post to you. Here is that information again:

 

"If you haven't already, you can prevent APPM from deleting the FITS image by saving failed images as shown in the screen shot below. Then look for the file with the same name as the fits file but with an “.INI” extension. Open that file and look for a line that says “WARNING=” and that should contain the reason for the failed plate solve."

 

 

-Ray

 

> -----Original Message-----

> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Geoffrey Collins via groups.io

> Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2021 8:29 PM

> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM Run vs Plate Solve and Recal

>

> Ray,

>

> I can plate solve and the pointing is spot on for that particular point from then on.  If I try do do a mapping run the

> plate solves fail.  I can stop the mapping run at any point and do a plate solve that will solve.  I assume I have

> something is set up wrong in the mapping run.  But I could do a mapping run before the update.

>

>

> 2s is the settle time.

>

> I did try the high accuracy slew tonight.

>

> The plate solve when I press the Plate Solve or Plate Solve and Recal button is fractions of a second.  The max

> solve time is currently set to 35 seconds.

>

> the error log solved max solve time exceeded but maybe I didn’t look in the correct place.

>

> The mount accuracy/RMS without the model is still great but not as good as it was when I had a model with only 32

> points.  Pointing with the model was perfect.  Now it is a little off.

>

>

>


ap@CaptivePhotons.com
 

Geoffrey Collins wrote:

 

  • On initialization it unparks automatically.  I have it set not to unpark.  I remember from this group that there is a way to prevent automatic unpacking on initialization, but I have not gone back to review that post again.  After initialization during the night, I always unpark in APCC with Park 3 on the park tab rather than picking unpark from last position.

 

I recently tracked both down so while fresh in my mind here’s a screen shot.  Left (from Settings,  Initialize Mount Settings) is for initialization, Park tab is for regular.   On the left the dropdown also has a “don’t unpark” available.  Tracking (or not) is on both also.

 


psparkman@...
 

Just a thought...How long is your settle time during the model generation?  If your settle time is too short you might be getting elongated stars that don't solve.  The first solve and recal you perform might settle longer because you have manually moved there.  Just a thought.  

I was seeing plate solve failures near the meridian points of the APPM model.  Looking at the images, they had elongated stars.  I locked the mirror on my C14, increased the settle time, and improved the mounting rigidity and now it solves 100% of the time unless there are clouds.


Geoffrey Collins
 

I have tried for 2 more nights to get a mapping run to work.  The plate solves always fail in the mapping run but the plate solves alway solve if I click the plate solve button in APPM or if use NINA.

Linwood, thanks on the settings tips.  I do have it setup to unpark from last park position on initialization, but I am having the same issues.  It is only on unpark for the first time of the night.  If I park for some reason during the night and then unpark there is no issue.  I must have something setup wrong on initialization.  It is not a huge problem since I am not remote.  

psparkman, I have the settle time set at 2 seconds.  I will extend settle time to 5 seconds and see if it helps.  

I did notice that in the settings review if using ASTAP there is a reference to the catalogue I use for Pinpoint.  I assume this isn’t the problem because it would impact all users.

Ray, I have all solves set to save.  I selected this option from my first use.  I can find the fits files from the plate solves in the mapping run but I don’t see an INI file.  The log zipper shows the reason for the fail as plate solve timed out.  


Geoffrey Collins
 

I changed the settle time to 5 seconds and started a mapping run.  All the points have solved (already up to 9 points) so far.  I assume that was the problem.  Thanks psparkman.  

No I can try the new dec arc tracking.