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APPM Questions
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Ray Gralak
Hi Tony,
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I didn't realize the dome might stop and start slewing multiple times like in your video. I made a slight tweak to APPM to check dome slewing status in the settling state. If APPM sees the dome slewing while in the "Settling" state it will move back into the "Slewing" state. So, please try this version: http://www.apastrosoftware.com/apcc_download/APCC_Pro_Setup_1.8.7.1.exe -Ray Gralak Author of PEMPro Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver -----Original Message----- |
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Bill Long
Nice quick fix there Ray! 🙂
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <groups3@...>
Sent: Sunday, October 4, 2020 5:03 PM To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM Questions Hi Tony,
I didn't realize the dome might stop and start slewing multiple times like in your video. I made a slight tweak to APPM to check dome slewing status in the settling state. If APPM sees the dome slewing while in the "Settling" state it will move back into the "Slewing" state. So, please try this version: https://eur05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.apastrosoftware.com%2Fapcc_download%2FAPCC_Pro_Setup_1.8.7.1.exe&data=02%7C01%7C%7C79593cae4c3c43e9fa6808d868c22456%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637374530321545643&sdata=jCAovfvY%2FwpjHFQKfkDt%2Fxfcpu3tJQ9hiaAh8deM4sM%3D&reserved=0 -Ray Gralak Author of PEMPro Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://eur05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-physics.com%2Fapcc-pro&data=02%7C01%7C%7C79593cae4c3c43e9fa6808d868c22456%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637374530321555638&sdata=phVabMJSj62uOU0sjNCBXI8OLoSNE%2B2GGd7MqBAngaU%3D&reserved=0 Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://eur05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&data=02%7C01%7C%7C79593cae4c3c43e9fa6808d868c22456%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637374530321555638&sdata=%2F5qKUYv1HrqYy3Zd3Z%2B2%2Flrq6boCPzSiDJ%2BytD424s8%3D&reserved=0 > -----Original Message----- > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Benjamin > Sent: Sunday, October 4, 2020 4:08 PM > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM Questions > > I have tried active dome control with the same issue...the camera starts taking an image while the dome is still > slewing. > > I always have the Nexdome driver selected...but IOT slave the mount to the dome I need other software > connected (SGP/Voyager or ASCOM Device Hub/ASCOM Control Hub). Matters not as they all react the same. > > Here is a video of what my problem is...APPM starts taking a pic while the dome is slewing: > > https://eur05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DWZNzAFeWQRg%26ab_channel%3DTonyBenjamin&data=02%7C01%7C%7C79593cae4c3c43e9fa6808d868c22456%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637374530321555638&sdata=gpL9TSIbPJ9QAVobnMLaXztZ4gI8q99AinVuRi8k%2FJ0%3D&reserved=0 > |
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Tony Benjamin <tonybenjamin@...>
Hi Ray,
Gave it a go but it basically failed when it started to take the dark frame. I will try it without the dark frame enabled.  |
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Ray Gralak
Gave it a go but it basically failed when it started to take the dark frame. I will try it without the dark frameDon't worry about APPM taking a dark frame. The scope could be slewing while taking the dark frame. It is done this way to save time. -Ray Gralak Author of PEMPro Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver -----Original Message----- |
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Tony Benjamin <tonybenjamin@...>
Okay, so heres whats happening.
When the Dark Frame was enabled it froze. So I disabled that feature. Now, when I run APPM the scope goes to Zenith as per normal and the status remains "Settling" but then it doesn't take an image. The scope stays at Zenith (with the "Current Status" oscillating between Settle/Wait/Slewing) while the dome makes its way over to be aligned (at about 270 degrees) but then no image is taken and the dome slews back around180 degrees (to about 090 degrees) and then comes back around to where it should be and then an image is taken. Basically the dome ends up move twice what it needs to before an image is taken, Seems to be doing this for each point?? |
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Ray Gralak
Tony,
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The only change I made was to check if the Dome is slewing according to the driver to which APPM is connected. APPM will wait until the driver says the Dome is done slewing. If the driver says the dome is slewing then APPM can not move to imaging. Maybe this is happening because your dome is always slewing (slowly) to keep the mount centered while tracking? -Ray Gralak Author of PEMPro Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver -----Original Message----- |
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Ray Gralak
Also, APPM sends the telescope's destination RA/Dec to the dome *once*.
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It is important that your dome driver can translate that into the correct Azimuth coordinate to which to move. If it cannot do that then you probably will need to go back to passive mode. From what you are saying (dome going back and forth) the dome driver doesn't correctly predict which pier side to move to based on the RA/Dec coordinates given to it. -Ray Gralak Author of PEMPro Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver -----Original Message----- |
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Tony Benjamin <tonybenjamin@...>
Thanks Ray,
I put it in Passive Mode and it does work fine. The only thing being that the scope will finish its slew before the dome moves at all...but at least it moves in the right direction when it does move :) I'll ask the Nexdome driver developer about what it does with the RA/Dec coords it receives from the mount and why it cannot seem to predict which side it should be rotating to. Maybe there is something he can do to use that RA/Dec to keep the dome going properly. |
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Tony Benjamin <tonybenjamin@...>
Ray,
Is my understanding on this whole process more or less correct?:
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Tony Benjamin <tonybenjamin@...>
So heres what the dome looks like now with the new APPM ver. It all works and probably won't get any fails. What I would really, really like is to find out who/how can get the dome to move in time with the mount - instead of just sitting there??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ao9ko5feII&ab_channel=TonyBenjamin |
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Tony Benjamin <tonybenjamin@...>
Think I'm slowly getting a grip on the main issue here. If I'm slewing the scope from within SGP then there is no delay - the scope and dome move together in beautiful harmony. But once an outside party (APPM) is issuing the slew command SGP has to sit idly by until that slew is complete as it doesn't know where the scope/mount is going to end up? Heres the way Jared from SGP put it:
SGP will do “pre-emptive” slews when SGP issues the slew or when the slew comes from the API. If something else is issuing the slew then SGP has to react to it since the slew is done without our notification…what’s worse is that SGP doesn’t know where the slew was commanded to go (we just see RA/Dec changing) so we have to wait until the slew is complete and then we can move the dome accordingly. I’m assuming since APPM talks directly to the mount that it is issuing the slew without SGP’s knowledge. To enable pre-emptive dome slews without scope slews we’d need to create something on the API side that would allow external applications to send us the coordinates for the slew but not actually do the slew in SGP. Or to allow this now the application could invoke the slew through SGP which would then handle the slaving correctly. Jared |
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Ray Gralak
Tony,
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APPM sends the telescope's destination coordinates to the Dome driver that to which APPM is configured. IMO the Dome driver should be intelligent enough to figure out where the telescope is heading and move the dome there. I would say it is up to the Dome driver developer to make this work. I would say you should talk to the NexDome manufacturer to see what suggestions they have. Also, I have been on and off working on a generic cross-platform dome driver. At the rate it's been going, it may be months away from when I can complete it, but the intent is to fix some of the bad decisions (in hindsight) made by ASCOM in the API design. (Then I would have to convince application developers to implement what is essentially a superset of ASCOM.) -Ray Gralak Author of PEMPro Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver -----Original Message----- |
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Tony Benjamin <tonybenjamin@...>
Thanks Ray,
I appreciate your patience in this thread. I know its a small niggly thing. Appreciate everything you've done. Cheers |
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Shane Ramotowski
Hi Ray,
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I'm currently working on motorizing my dome and am in the middle of testing my newly written ASCOM driver and want to make sure that I can support APPM. How does APPM send the telescope's destination coordinates to the Dome driver? Does it do that though ASCOM? This is my first ASCOM driver, so I'm likely missing something or misunderstanding something, but I don't see any ASCOM methods that would work for sending telescope coordinates. Is it done though a custom command in Action(), CommandBlind(), CommandBool(), or CommandString()? I know about the CanSlave property, but as I understand it, that is for a hardware (external to DOME driver) solution. Thanks - Shane On 10/5/2020 8:56 PM, Ray Gralak wrote:
Tony, |
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Ray Gralak
Hi Shane,
How does APPM send the telescope's destination coordinates to the DomeYes, through ASCOM, but as I alluded to, the API is lacking. It does not provide the dome with enough information to calculate position. In Active mode, APPM first checks if the driver can accept SendToAzimuth and/or SendToAltitude. Assuming it can APPM will convert the telescope's destination RA/Dec to Azimuth/Altitude and issue the dome driver's SlewToAzimuth() and SlewToAltitude() methods. In Passive mode, APPM does not issue any moves directly to the dome driver. However, APPM monitors the "Slewing" property to determine when the dome has completed movement. APPM also does this in it's Active mode as well. The problem with the ASCOM Dome interface is that it doesn't provide enough information to the dome driver. What the dome driver needs are: 1) The telescope's destination RA/Dec. 2) The mount's destination pier side. 3) In case of a multiple scope setup, which telescope (or telescopes) to center the dome opening. -Ray Gralak Author of PEMPro Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver -----Original Message----- |
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Shane Ramotowski
Thanks for the replay, Ray!
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That's what I had expected. I should have that covered since slaving with DeviceHub and SGP both seem to work and both use the same ASCOM methods. Based on one of your previous ports, I did update my Slewing properly to handle the "stopped, but not quite done slewing" case. I'm using an IMU that gets a little confused during movement and needs some settle (and thus, some additional motor movement) time. Thanks again - Shane On 10/6/2020 7:47 AM, Ray Gralak wrote:
Hi Shane,How does APPM send the telescope's destination coordinates to the DomeYes, through ASCOM, but as I alluded to, the API is lacking. It does not provide the dome with enough information to calculate position. |
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