APPM model how many points portable?


Robert Berta
 

I have a RAPAS on my 1100. I run lots of wires (around 6) through the mount and no issue. There is a plastic segmented "separator" that comes with the mount that allows you to run the cables through and keep them clear of the RAPAS. The reason I have so many cables is I have two interchangeable setups....one for a 6" APO refractor and another for a 11" SCT equipped with Hyperstar so one set is used for each to make it faster to switch setups without rerouting wires. I also have  wires for wireless focuser power. Of course you can also run external wires like I do on my 900 mount if you run out of room. For a permanent setup internal wiring makes it neater but for a portable mount it takes longer to run all the wires through instead of just hanging them off the mount and restraining with Velcro ties.


Ron Kramer
 

platesolve2  IS very slow.  Use  ASTAP.  Try  NINA and ASTAP combo. solves are always under 2 seconds for me. 


On Sun, Apr 18, 2021 at 8:16 PM Robert Berta <biker123@...> wrote:
I have a RAPAS on my 1100. I run lots of wires (around 6) through the mount and no issue. There is a plastic segmented "separator" that comes with the mount that allows you to run the cables through and keep them clear of the RAPAS. The reason I have so many cables is I have two interchangeable setups....one for a 6" APO refractor and another for a 11" SCT equipped with Hyperstar so one set is used for each to make it faster to switch setups without rerouting wires. I also have  wires for wireless focuser power. Of course you can also run external wires like I do on my 900 mount if you run out of room. For a permanent setup internal wiring makes it neater but for a portable mount it takes longer to run all the wires through instead of just hanging them off the mount and restraining with Velcro ties.




Jim Grubb
 

I have the 1100 with encoders and have found a very successful very quick workflow using ASTAP-SGP-APPM.  You can turn off blind solving and it will very quickly move to the next point if it fails.  This is useful as I have the same issue with my horizon map not being perfect.  When the scope is pointing at the trees or the house, it just fails and quickly moves onto the next point.  This only happens for me near the horizon.  ASTAP is by far the fastest solver I have used and usually solves in under a second so you can turn the "Max Solve Time" parameter way down and it will fail very quickly.  I currently have mine set at 10s and am sure I could lower it to 2 or 3 seconds with no issues at all.  You may need to do a blind solve when you first set up the scope before you begin the pointing run.  [Screenshot: APPM - Plate Solve Settings Page]

On to the topic of how many points.  If you are only going after one target in an evening, you can run a narrow line at the declination of the target you are going to be imaging.  I typically use two lines spaced close together.  Here is an example of an 88 point model which covers 7 degrees of declination.  I can run this model in 1/2 hour.  And this is overkill, way more points than needed.  [Screenshot: Pointmap 1 example]

If you pull back on the RA spacing and tighten up the dec so that it only runs a single line of points at the exact declination of your target, you could get this down to 27 points, which on my rig will run in about 10 minutes.  [Screenshot: Pointmap 2 example]

Good luck!
Jim

As you experiment with different spacing, you will start to get a feel for what works.


Roland Christen
 

Howe accurate is ASTAP? Less than 1 arc sec or?

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Grubb via groups.io <jimgrubb@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Apr 22, 2021 10:34 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM model how many points portable?

I have the 1100 with encoders and have found a very successful very quick workflow using ASTAP-SGP-APPM.  You can turn off blind solving and it will very quickly move to the next point if it fails.  This is useful as I have the same issue with my horizon map not being perfect.  When the scope is pointing at the trees or the house, it just fails and quickly moves onto the next point.  This only happens for me near the horizon.  ASTAP is by far the fastest solver I have used and usually solves in under a second so you can turn the "Max Solve Time" parameter way down and it will fail very quickly.  I currently have mine set at 10s and am sure I could lower it to 2 or 3 seconds with no issues at all.  You may need to do a blind solve when you first set up the scope before you begin the pointing run.  [Screenshot: APPM - Plate Solve Settings Page]

On to the topic of how many points.  If you are only going after one target in an evening, you can run a narrow line at the declination of the target you are going to be imaging.  I typically use two lines spaced close together.  Here is an example of an 88 point model which covers 7 degrees of declination.  I can run this model in 1/2 hour.  And this is overkill, way more points than needed.  [Screenshot: Pointmap 1 example]

If you pull back on the RA spacing and tighten up the dec so that it only runs a single line of points at the exact declination of your target, you could get this down to 27 points, which on my rig will run in about 10 minutes.  [Screenshot: Pointmap 2 example]

Good luck!
Jim

As you experiment with different spacing, you will start to get a feel for what works.

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Dean Jacobsen
 

I have been using PlateSolve2 with SGP to do my APPM modeling for almost a year now and it only takes a second or two to solve with my laptop.  So, results can vary.  I use smallish detectors - ASI1600, ASI294MM, and ASI2600MC.  So I’m sure that is a factor.  I also use 1/2 frame with the ASI2600 which speeds things up.
--
Dean Jacobsen
http://astrophoto.net/wp/
Image Gallery - http://astrophoto.net/wp/image-gallery/
Astrobin Image Gallery - https://www.astrobin.com/users/deanjacobsen/ 
Amateur Radio Call Sign - W6DBJ


Greg McCall
 

How do you get APPM to work with "NINA and ASTAP combo"?


Dale Ghent
 

APPM and NINA currently don't talk with each other. You will need to run APPM by using your camera's ASCOM driver and any of the plate solving mechanisms that are currently supported by APPM.

I personally go about it with APPM connected to the camera via its ASCOM driver, and using TheSkyX's ImageLink plate solving. Once the modeling run is done, I shut all that down, make sure the new model is loaded up in APCC, then start NINA and go about my usual workflow.

/dale

On Apr 22, 2021, at 17:03, Greg McCall <emailgregnow@gmail.com> wrote:

How do you get APPM to work with "NINA and ASTAP combo"?


Worsel
 

Greg

From APPC Pro manual

To use APPM with your mount you will need to have the following:

1) Camera Control Software and a camera supported by that software:
a) MaxIm DL Pro v5 or later -
b) CCDSoft V5
c) TheSkyX Pro Camera Add-on
d) AstroArt V3 or later
e) Any camera with an ASCOM Camera Driver
f) Sequence Generator Pro.
g) Meade DSI I-III cameras are also supported, but their sensors are usually not large enough to
capture enough stars for reliable plate solves.

2) Plate Solving Software:
a) The full version of DC3 Dreams PinPoint application. Version 6 of Pinpoint is preferred.
b) TheSkyX Pro
c) Plate solving using Sequence Generator Pro

Eventually Ray will integrate ASTAP into APPM.


Bryan


Jim Grubb
 

Hi Rolando,

I'm not sure how to measure how accurate ASTAP is.  I guess I could run a solve with ANSVR or pinpoint and measure the difference in results? 

Jim


Roland Christen
 

If it isn't accurate to 1 arc sec or better then it will impact unguided imaging in a negative way.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Grubb via groups.io <jimgrubb@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Apr 22, 2021 7:21 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM model how many points portable?

Hi Rolando,

I'm not sure how to measure how accurate ASTAP is.  I guess I could run a solve with ANSVR or pinpoint and measure the difference in results? 

Jim

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Bill Long
 

What is the best way to test the accuracy level? 


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011@...>
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2021 5:40 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM model how many points portable?
 
If it isn't accurate to 1 arc sec or better then it will impact unguided imaging in a negative way.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Grubb via groups.io <jimgrubb@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Apr 22, 2021 7:21 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM model how many points portable?

Hi Rolando,

I'm not sure how to measure how accurate ASTAP is.  I guess I could run a solve with ANSVR or pinpoint and measure the difference in results? 

Jim

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Jim Grubb
 

Here is my proposed experiment to measure accuracy of different plate solvers.
 
1. Choose a star (A) mag ~9, plate solve, re-sync, and then slew back to it.  (in SkyX they call this closed loop plate solving)
 
2. Choose a second star (B), say 30ºs away, slew to it, plate solve, re-sync, and then slew back to it.
 
3. Slew back to star A, plate solve, re-sync, and slew back to it. Then use a tool to measure the difference between the center of the screen (reticle crosshair), and where the star actually is after the closed loop slew.
 
4. Repeat steps 1-3 a number of times to get an average error.
 
5. Repeat the experiment with each plate solver and compare the average error.
 
Does this sound like a sound experiment?

Jim


ap@CaptivePhotons.com
 

Sounds like it is more measuring the accuracy of the mount and closed loop slew than the plate solving.

 

I would think you want to take a FITS image and plate solve with ASTAP and compare the answer to other plate solving programs.  Except of course you would need to try a bunch of FITS images in different parts of the sky, probably at different focal lengths, with different amounts of distortion, different image scales.

 

Then try to figure out which plate solver is the more authoritative when they all disagree with each other.

 

I thought about trying it, grabbed an image and tried PI and AStAP, but I saw all the associated data (not just center coordinates and PA) and decided I wasn’t competent to compare.   L

 

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jim Grubb via groups.io
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2021 11:03 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM model how many points portable?

 

Here is my proposed experiment to measure accuracy of different plate solvers.

 

1. Choose a star (A) mag ~9, plate solve, re-sync, and then slew back to it.  (in SkyX they call this closed loop plate solving)

 

2. Choose a second star (B), say 30ºs away, slew to it, plate solve, re-sync, and then slew back to it.

 

3. Slew back to star A, plate solve, re-sync, and slew back to it. Then use a tool to measure the difference between the center of the screen (reticle crosshair), and where the star actually is after the closed loop slew.

 

4. Repeat steps 1-3 a number of times to get an average error.

 

5. Repeat the experiment with each plate solver and compare the average error.

 

Does this sound like a sound experiment?

Jim