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APPC & Mach2: Dec Arc model results and RA drift connection?

#APCC #Mach2GTO

Howard Hedlund #90255 I have two points to bring up: 1. In general, I have been able to mitigate the difference in E and W model quality by eliminating the actual mechanical orthogonality issue. Fixing orthogonality is a bit of a pain, but it's often worth the effort. I've been running test and beta versions of APCC for so long, I've forgotten if this is in the current release, but the next APCC will include a specific orthogonality measurement during the APPM mapping run. Regardless, if a mechanical issue can be addressed mechanically, it will always be better than forcing a model to try to correct the issue. 2. Try Rolando's method for making a final tweak to your otherwise perfect polar alignment to eliminate RA drift - especially at higher altitudes. Drift Alignment R.A. Correction Method - PDF document providing a step by step method to achieve high precision alignment within 45 degrees of the zenith. This method provides quick alignment for the prime imaging area. A CCD camera and guide software are required. If you want to hear how well this RA Correction Method works in practice, just ask our buddy, George!
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Andrea Lucchetti #90260 yes, it is much better than mine, meaning the model has less work to do toggle quoted message Show quoted text Il giorno mar 15 nov 2022 alle ore 07:18 Bill Long <bill@...> ha scritto: Brian, I should add that the model comes out pretty nicely: From: Bill Long <bill@...> Sent: Monday, November 14, 2022 8:31 PM To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPC & Mach2: Dec Arc model results and RA drift connection? #APCC #Mach2GTO For sure, Brian. I have a serious tree problem here and have to image at very high altitudes as a result. For an example of just how bad it is, I am working on a project of the Heart Nebula + HB3 Supernova Remnant, largely based on Chris' great image. Currently the object is very high in the sky at 64 degrees, and I have no issues imaging it. In fact, at the start of the night it was 47 degrees and still quite good for me. Once it traverses the meridian however, it moves toward the west, and at about 2:10am Pacific it will creep into the trees, even at 60 degrees of altitude at that time. If anyone needs some fresh Alder, I have some you can come chop down and take for free. 🙂 -Bill From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Brian Valente <bvalente@...> Sent: Monday, November 14, 2022 8:23 PM To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPC & Mach2: Dec Arc model results and RA drift connection? #APCC #Mach2GTO Bill i also like that you set a high min altitude - I have a similar. why bother modeling an altitude i never image at it also keeps the model fairly dense vs. a lower altitude On Mon, Nov 14, 2022 at 7:37 PM Bill Long <bill@...> wrote: My experience has largely been the same, that unguided imaging with a model will improve the quality of my data over guided imaging -- with the caveat that the models are of course important to use. I have been using models of about 55 points, configured like you see below: The time estimate is fairly accurate. It runs in about 25 mins, which is close enough. 🙂 From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Chris White <chris.white@...> Sent: Monday, November 14, 2022 3:22 PM To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPC & Mach2: Dec Arc model results and RA drift connection? #APCC #Mach2GTO [Edited Message Follows] Andrea, Keep in mind that guiding itself is a potential source of error. With my telescopes I actually get better performance unguided than I do with guiding. 130gtx and epsilon 160. I build my models with dec spacing at 1 to 2 degrees and RA at 7 degrees. I might tweak this, but it only takes about 20 to 25 min to complete a run. Give unguided a try. You might be surprised. I sure was! -- Brian Brian Valente astro portfolio https://www.brianvalentephotography.com/astrophotography/ portfolio brianvalentephotography.com astrobin https://www.astrobin.com/users/bvalente/
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Andrea Lucchetti #90261 Hi Howard, I think in my case non orthogonality could be caused also by collimation: I mean, telescope can be collimated but the optical axis of a newtonian is not necessarily coincident with the ota axis. I can work on this but it is not easy. That's why I need a model that works. I think I need to run a night unguided and collect data: my problems are now related with modeling +guiding at the same time, it is probably better to check if modeling alone solve everything. I will implement a couple of suggestions that came out in the thread: -decrease the spacing in RA -increase settling time -dial in correct temperature and pressure -I am building a new mirror cell but it takes time: hopefully that will keep the mirror more stable and I will have the chance of re-squaring the focuser (I hate this part...) if someone could share an APPC log with Dec arc tracking that would be useful for me: I could check the magnitude of RA corrections and understand if mine are reasonable or not. Thank you, Andrea toggle quoted message Show quoted text Il giorno mar 15 nov 2022 alle ore 16:46 Howard Hedlund <howard@...> ha scritto: I have two points to bring up: 1. In general, I have been able to mitigate the difference in E and W model quality by eliminating the actual mechanical orthogonality issue. Fixing orthogonality is a bit of a pain, but it's often worth the effort. I've been running test and beta versions of APCC for so long, I've forgotten if this is in the current release, but the next APCC will include a specific orthogonality measurement during the APPM mapping run. Regardless, if a mechanical issue can be addressed mechanically, it will always be better than forcing a model to try to correct the issue. 2. Try Rolando's method for making a final tweak to your otherwise perfect polar alignment to eliminate RA drift - especially at higher altitudes. Drift Alignment R.A. Correction Method - PDF document providing a step by step method to achieve high precision alignment within 45 degrees of the zenith. This method provides quick alignment for the prime imaging area. A CCD camera and guide software are required. If you want to hear how well this RA Correction Method works in practice, just ask our buddy, George!
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Brian Valente #90262 Hi Andrea Is your concern the size of the guiding RA corrections? If so, can you share a guidelog of yours? I forgot if you have encoders or not toggle quoted message Show quoted text On Tue, Nov 15, 2022 at 11:30 AM Andrea Lucchetti <andlucchett@...> wrote: Hi Howard, I think in my case non orthogonality could be caused also by collimation: I mean, telescope can be collimated but the optical axis of a newtonian is not necessarily coincident with the ota axis. I can work on this but it is not easy. That's why I need a model that works. I think I need to run a night unguided and collect data: my problems are now related with modeling +guiding at the same time, it is probably better to check if modeling alone solve everything. I will implement a couple of suggestions that came out in the thread: -decrease the spacing in RA -increase settling time -dial in correct temperature and pressure -I am building a new mirror cell but it takes time: hopefully that will keep the mirror more stable and I will have the chance of re-squaring the focuser (I hate this part...) if someone could share an APPC log with Dec arc tracking that would be useful for me: I could check the magnitude of RA corrections and understand if mine are reasonable or not. Thank you, Andrea Il giorno mar 15 nov 2022 alle ore 16:46 Howard Hedlund <howard@...> ha scritto: I have two points to bring up: 1. In general, I have been able to mitigate the difference in E and W model quality by eliminating the actual mechanical orthogonality issue. Fixing orthogonality is a bit of a pain, but it's often worth the effort. I've been running test and beta versions of APCC for so long, I've forgotten if this is in the current release, but the next APCC will include a specific orthogonality measurement during the APPM mapping run. Regardless, if a mechanical issue can be addressed mechanically, it will always be better than forcing a model to try to correct the issue. 2. Try Rolando's method for making a final tweak to your otherwise perfect polar alignment to eliminate RA drift - especially at higher altitudes. Drift Alignment R.A. Correction Method - PDF document providing a step by step method to achieve high precision alignment within 45 degrees of the zenith. This method provides quick alignment for the prime imaging area. A CCD camera and guide software are required. If you want to hear how well this RA Correction Method works in practice, just ask our buddy, George! -- Brian Brian Valente astro portfolio https://www.brianvalentephotography.com/astrophotography/ portfolio brianvalentephotography.com astrobin https://www.astrobin.com/users/bvalente/
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Andrea Lucchetti #90263 Hi Brian, yes, my concern is not the model per se, but the magnitude of the corrections applied and result observed in phd guiding logs. if you run a Raw RA analysis in PHD you can see that RA seems to drift. here you can find the APPC log withh the corrections applied (to RA rate) and the PHD log if you look, the rate adjustments applied to RA rate are 10 TIMES BIGGER than the ones applied to DEC. This to me is a non sense and this is the problem I see. https://www.dropbox.com/t/uGZDjat4jVKAX9Ob Of course I agree It is better to see the result of the model only (without guiding), and this is what i will do next time. Thank you Andrea
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Roland Christen #90264 Almost always when the RA drifts it is caused by the polar alignment in altitude is wrong. If you are shooting below 45 degrees then the RA drift cannot be corrected by polar alignment, because it is naturally occurring due to atmospheric refraction. It can be quite large, up to 150 arc seconds per hour depending where in the sky you are aimed. Rolando toggle quoted message Show quoted text -----Original Message----- From: Andrea Lucchetti <andlucchett@...> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io Sent: Tue, Nov 15, 2022 2:01 pm Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPC & Mach2: Dec Arc model results and RA drift connection? #APCC #Mach2GTO Hi Brian, yes, my concern is not the model per se, but the magnitude of the corrections applied and result observed in phd guiding logs. if you run a Raw RA analysis in PHD you can see that RA seems to drift. here you can find the APPC log withh the corrections applied (to RA rate) and the PHD log if you look, the rate adjustments applied to RA rate are 10 TIMES BIGGER than the ones applied to DEC. This to me is a non sense and this is the problem I see. https://www.dropbox.com/t/uGZDjat4jVKAX9Ob Of course I agree It is better to see the result of the model only (without guiding), and this is what i will do next time. Thank you Andrea -- Roland Christen Astro-Physics
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Brian Valente #90266 Hi Andrea i don't see a PHD guidelog in that link? toggle quoted message Show quoted text On Tue, Nov 15, 2022 at 12:01 PM Andrea Lucchetti <andlucchett@...> wrote: Hi Brian, yes, my concern is not the model per se, but the magnitude of the corrections applied and result observed in phd guiding logs. if you run a Raw RA analysis in PHD you can see that RA seems to drift. here you can find the APPC log withh the corrections applied (to RA rate) and the PHD log if you look, the rate adjustments applied to RA rate are 10 TIMES BIGGER than the ones applied to DEC. This to me is a non sense and this is the problem I see. https://www.dropbox.com/t/uGZDjat4jVKAX9Ob Of course I agree It is better to see the result of the model only (without guiding), and this is what i will do next time. Thank you Andrea -- Brian Brian Valente astro portfolio https://www.brianvalentephotography.com/astrophotography/ portfolio brianvalentephotography.com astrobin https://www.astrobin.com/users/bvalente/
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Andrea Lucchetti #90269 I am sorry, try this one: https://www.dropbox.com/t/DO1UyH8HNE7xvyyG by the way, the RA rates are noted in the APPC log. if you take the PHD log and check the raw data, you see a long period oscillation Thank you Andrea
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Andrea Lucchetti #90270 thank you Roland. PHD says I was 1.2 arcmin off. The model did improve the situation in declination (that was not bad by the way), and PHD measures a residual drift on raw RA data of "0" over a very long period. I think the model did its job in declination. Actually, of all the model parameters, the ones tied to polar alignment are the best. The object was imaged quite high in the sky, over 40 deg for sure. It was very wet that night, that for sure. The environment parameters written in the APCC log says t=20, P=1010 as the sensor didn't work. the real temperature was about 15 deg but I don't think that can explain the results. Andrea toggle quoted message Show quoted text Il giorno mar 15 nov 2022 alle ore 21:13 Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> ha scritto: Almost always when the RA drifts it is caused by the polar alignment in altitude is wrong. If you are shooting below 45 degrees then the RA drift cannot be corrected by polar alignment, because it is naturally occurring due to atmospheric refraction. It can be quite large, up to 150 arc seconds per hour depending where in the sky you are aimed. Rolando -----Original Message----- From: Andrea Lucchetti <andlucchett@...> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io Sent: Tue, Nov 15, 2022 2:01 pm Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPC & Mach2: Dec Arc model results and RA drift connection? #APCC #Mach2GTO Hi Brian, yes, my concern is not the model per se, but the magnitude of the corrections applied and result observed in phd guiding logs. if you run a Raw RA analysis in PHD you can see that RA seems to drift. here you can find the APPC log withh the corrections applied (to RA rate) and the PHD log if you look, the rate adjustments applied to RA rate are 10 TIMES BIGGER than the ones applied to DEC. This to me is a non sense and this is the problem I see. https://www.dropbox.com/t/uGZDjat4jVKAX9Ob Of course I agree It is better to see the result of the model only (without guiding), and this is what i will do next time. Thank you Andrea -- Roland Christen Astro-Physics
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Brian Valente #90271 sorry I still don't see a guidelog in there? toggle quoted message Show quoted text On Tue, Nov 15, 2022 at 12:57 PM Andrea Lucchetti <andlucchett@...> wrote: I am sorry, try this one: https://www.dropbox.com/t/DO1UyH8HNE7xvyyG by the way, the RA rates are noted in the APPC log. if you take the PHD log and check the raw data, you see a long period oscillation Thank you Andrea -- Brian Brian Valente astro portfolio https://www.brianvalentephotography.com/astrophotography/ portfolio brianvalentephotography.com astrobin https://www.astrobin.com/users/bvalente/
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Andrea Lucchetti #90272 I am so sorry. try this last one: https://www.dropbox.com/t/RkiXJYks4atlQJ2P I've verified the link, it should be there. let me know if it doesn't work thank you toggle quoted message Show quoted text Il giorno mar 15 nov 2022 alle ore 22:12 Brian Valente <bvalente@...> ha scritto: sorry I still don't see a guidelog in there? On Tue, Nov 15, 2022 at 12:57 PM Andrea Lucchetti <andlucchett@...> wrote: I am sorry, try this one: https://www.dropbox.com/t/DO1UyH8HNE7xvyyG by the way, the RA rates are noted in the APPC log. if you take the PHD log and check the raw data, you see a long period oscillation Thank you Andrea -- Brian Brian Valente astro portfolio https://www.brianvalentephotography.com/astrophotography/ portfolio brianvalentephotography.com astrobin https://www.astrobin.com/users/bvalente/
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Brian Valente #90273 getting closer :) that is the debug log, i'm looking for the guidelog if you just want to upload the one file here that would be great toggle quoted message Show quoted text On Tue, Nov 15, 2022 at 1:17 PM Andrea Lucchetti <andlucchett@...> wrote: I am so sorry. try this last one: https://www.dropbox.com/t/RkiXJYks4atlQJ2P I've verified the link, it should be there. let me know if it doesn't work thank you Il giorno mar 15 nov 2022 alle ore 22:12 Brian Valente <bvalente@...> ha scritto: sorry I still don't see a guidelog in there? On Tue, Nov 15, 2022 at 12:57 PM Andrea Lucchetti <andlucchett@...> wrote: I am sorry, try this one: https://www.dropbox.com/t/DO1UyH8HNE7xvyyG by the way, the RA rates are noted in the APPC log. if you take the PHD log and check the raw data, you see a long period oscillation Thank you Andrea -- Brian Brian Valente astro portfolio https://www.brianvalentephotography.com/astrophotography/ portfolio brianvalentephotography.com astrobin https://www.astrobin.com/users/bvalente/ -- Brian Brian Valente astro portfolio https://www.brianvalentephotography.com/astrophotography/ portfolio brianvalentephotography.com astrobin https://www.astrobin.com/users/bvalente/
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Andrea Lucchetti #90274 thank you for your patient :-) toggle quoted message Show quoted text Il giorno mar 15 nov 2022 alle ore 22:24 Brian Valente <bvalente@...> ha scritto: getting closer :) that is the debug log, i'm looking for the guidelog if you just want to upload the one file here that would be great On Tue, Nov 15, 2022 at 1:17 PM Andrea Lucchetti <andlucchett@...> wrote: I am so sorry. try this last one: https://www.dropbox.com/t/RkiXJYks4atlQJ2P I've verified the link, it should be there. let me know if it doesn't work thank you Il giorno mar 15 nov 2022 alle ore 22:12 Brian Valente <bvalente@...> ha scritto: sorry I still don't see a guidelog in there? On Tue, Nov 15, 2022 at 12:57 PM Andrea Lucchetti <andlucchett@...> wrote: I am sorry, try this one: https://www.dropbox.com/t/DO1UyH8HNE7xvyyG by the way, the RA rates are noted in the APPC log. if you take the PHD log and check the raw data, you see a long period oscillation Thank you Andrea -- Brian Brian Valente astro portfolio https://www.brianvalentephotography.com/astrophotography/ portfolio brianvalentephotography.com astrobin https://www.astrobin.com/users/bvalente/ -- Brian Brian Valente astro portfolio https://www.brianvalentephotography.com/astrophotography/ portfolio brianvalentephotography.com astrobin https://www.astrobin.com/users/bvalente/ PHD2_GuideLog_2022-10-29_194600.txt
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Brian Valente #90275 Hi Andrea Great that worked Looking at your 4 hour run, your total RMS is 0.45" with RA RMS 0.30" and Dec RMS 0.28". this should result in nice tight round stars it looks pretty good to me. Can you point out what concerns you? toggle quoted message Show quoted text On Tue, Nov 15, 2022 at 1:30 PM Andrea Lucchetti <andlucchett@...> wrote: thank you for your patient :-) Il giorno mar 15 nov 2022 alle ore 22:24 Brian Valente <bvalente@...> ha scritto: getting closer :) that is the debug log, i'm looking for the guidelog if you just want to upload the one file here that would be great On Tue, Nov 15, 2022 at 1:17 PM Andrea Lucchetti <andlucchett@...> wrote: I am so sorry. try this last one: https://www.dropbox.com/t/RkiXJYks4atlQJ2P I've verified the link, it should be there. let me know if it doesn't work thank you Il giorno mar 15 nov 2022 alle ore 22:12 Brian Valente <bvalente@...> ha scritto: sorry I still don't see a guidelog in there? On Tue, Nov 15, 2022 at 12:57 PM Andrea Lucchetti <andlucchett@...> wrote: I am sorry, try this one: https://www.dropbox.com/t/DO1UyH8HNE7xvyyG by the way, the RA rates are noted in the APPC log. if you take the PHD log and check the raw data, you see a long period oscillation Thank you Andrea -- Brian Brian Valente astro portfolio https://www.brianvalentephotography.com/astrophotography/ portfolio brianvalentephotography.com astrobin https://www.astrobin.com/users/bvalente/ -- Brian Brian Valente astro portfolio https://www.brianvalentephotography.com/astrophotography/ portfolio brianvalentephotography.com astrobin https://www.astrobin.com/users/bvalente/ -- Brian Brian Valente astro portfolio https://www.brianvalentephotography.com/astrophotography/ portfolio brianvalentephotography.com astrobin https://www.astrobin.com/users/bvalente/
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Andrea Lucchetti #90276 Thank you Brian. if you look at the RA line in the guiding plot you see that is almost always below zero. The scatter diagram too is not centered. I am trying to understand if this could be caused by drift, but I am not sure. I had to increase aggressiveness to try to compensate for this. if you click on "drift " on the box you posted, you see that drift in DEC is 0, pol align error is zero, but RA drift is -0.26 arcsec/min. The same is visible in the plot of raw RA (see photo attached), where you can see the cumulated drift over the 4 hours. the difference between DEC and RA is clear. My eccentricity is reported to be 0.55 on average at the center of the field. This eccentricity is about the same in different nights, sky objects and with different rotation of the camera toggle quoted message Show quoted text Il giorno mar 15 nov 2022 alle ore 22:49 Brian Valente <bvalente@...> ha scritto: Hi Andrea Great that worked Looking at your 4 hour run, your total RMS is 0.45" with RA RMS 0.30" and Dec RMS 0.28". this should result in nice tight round stars it looks pretty good to me. Can you point out what concerns you? On Tue, Nov 15, 2022 at 1:30 PM Andrea Lucchetti <andlucchett@...> wrote: thank you for your patient :-) Il giorno mar 15 nov 2022 alle ore 22:24 Brian Valente <bvalente@...> ha scritto: getting closer :) that is the debug log, i'm looking for the guidelog if you just want to upload the one file here that would be great On Tue, Nov 15, 2022 at 1:17 PM Andrea Lucchetti <andlucchett@...> wrote: I am so sorry. try this last one: https://www.dropbox.com/t/RkiXJYks4atlQJ2P I've verified the link, it should be there. let me know if it doesn't work thank you Il giorno mar 15 nov 2022 alle ore 22:12 Brian Valente <bvalente@...> ha scritto: sorry I still don't see a guidelog in there? On Tue, Nov 15, 2022 at 12:57 PM Andrea Lucchetti <andlucchett@...> wrote: I am sorry, try this one: https://www.dropbox.com/t/DO1UyH8HNE7xvyyG by the way, the RA rates are noted in the APPC log. if you take the PHD log and check the raw data, you see a long period oscillation Thank you Andrea -- Brian Brian Valente astro portfolio https://www.brianvalentephotography.com/astrophotography/ portfolio brianvalentephotography.com astrobin https://www.astrobin.com/users/bvalente/ -- Brian Brian Valente astro portfolio https://www.brianvalentephotography.com/astrophotography/ portfolio brianvalentephotography.com astrobin https://www.astrobin.com/users/bvalente/ -- Brian Brian Valente astro portfolio https://www.brianvalentephotography.com/astrophotography/ portfolio brianvalentephotography.com astrobin https://www.astrobin.com/users/bvalente/
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Brian Valente #90277 >>>if you look at the RA line in the guiding plot you see that is almost always below zero. depending on the side of pier. on opposite side of pier it's above the line I think Roland's suggestion about fine-tuned polar align in RA is worth exploring Also I would ease up a bit on the guiding parameters - suggest 4 sec exposures and 10 second long delay Guiding an encoder mount is much different than guiding a regular mount. It's more like gently helping it along while the encoders do most of the work toggle quoted message Show quoted text On Tue, Nov 15, 2022 at 2:06 PM Andrea Lucchetti <andlucchett@...> wrote: Thank you Brian. if you look at the RA line in the guiding plot you see that is almost always below zero. The scatter diagram too is not centered. I am trying to understand if this could be caused by drift, but I am not sure. I had to increase aggressiveness to try to compensate for this. if you click on "drift " on the box you posted, you see that drift in DEC is 0, pol align error is zero, but RA drift is -0.26 arcsec/min. The same is visible in the plot of raw RA (see photo attached), where you can see the cumulated drift over the 4 hours. the difference between DEC and RA is clear. My eccentricity is reported to be 0.55 on average at the center of the field. This eccentricity is about the same in different nights, sky objects and with different rotation of the camera Il giorno mar 15 nov 2022 alle ore 22:49 Brian Valente <bvalente@...> ha scritto: Hi Andrea Great that worked Looking at your 4 hour run, your total RMS is 0.45" with RA RMS 0.30" and Dec RMS 0.28". this should result in nice tight round stars it looks pretty good to me. Can you point out what concerns you? On Tue, Nov 15, 2022 at 1:30 PM Andrea Lucchetti <andlucchett@...> wrote: thank you for your patient :-) Il giorno mar 15 nov 2022 alle ore 22:24 Brian Valente <bvalente@...> ha scritto: getting closer :) that is the debug log, i'm looking for the guidelog if you just want to upload the one file here that would be great On Tue, Nov 15, 2022 at 1:17 PM Andrea Lucchetti <andlucchett@...> wrote: I am so sorry. try this last one: https://www.dropbox.com/t/RkiXJYks4atlQJ2P I've verified the link, it should be there. let me know if it doesn't work thank you Il giorno mar 15 nov 2022 alle ore 22:12 Brian Valente <bvalente@...> ha scritto: sorry I still don't see a guidelog in there? On Tue, Nov 15, 2022 at 12:57 PM Andrea Lucchetti <andlucchett@...> wrote: I am sorry, try this one: https://www.dropbox.com/t/DO1UyH8HNE7xvyyG by the way, the RA rates are noted in the APPC log. if you take the PHD log and check the raw data, you see a long period oscillation Thank you Andrea -- Brian Brian Valente astro portfolio https://www.brianvalentephotography.com/astrophotography/ portfolio brianvalentephotography.com astrobin https://www.astrobin.com/users/bvalente/ -- Brian Brian Valente astro portfolio https://www.brianvalentephotography.com/astrophotography/ portfolio brianvalentephotography.com astrobin https://www.astrobin.com/users/bvalente/ -- Brian Brian Valente astro portfolio https://www.brianvalentephotography.com/astrophotography/ portfolio brianvalentephotography.com astrobin https://www.astrobin.com/users/bvalente/ -- Brian Brian Valente astro portfolio https://www.brianvalentephotography.com/astrophotography/ portfolio brianvalentephotography.com astrobin https://www.astrobin.com/users/bvalente/
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Roland Christen #90278 I would not mind just seeing an unguided screen shot to see what exactly we are talking about. I'm not one to hunt thru logs to look for a chicken egg. Rolando toggle quoted message Show quoted text -----Original Message----- From: Brian Valente <bvalente@...> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io Sent: Tue, Nov 15, 2022 3:24 pm Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPC & Mach2: Dec Arc model results and RA drift connection? #APCC #Mach2GTO getting closer :) that is the debug log, i'm looking for the guidelog if you just want to upload the one file here that would be great On Tue, Nov 15, 2022 at 1:17 PM Andrea Lucchetti <andlucchett@...> wrote: I am so sorry. try this last one: https://www.dropbox.com/t/RkiXJYks4atlQJ2P I've verified the link, it should be there. let me know if it doesn't work thank you Il giorno mar 15 nov 2022 alle ore 22:12 Brian Valente <bvalente@...> ha scritto: sorry I still don't see a guidelog in there? On Tue, Nov 15, 2022 at 12:57 PM Andrea Lucchetti <andlucchett@...> wrote: I am sorry, try this one: https://www.dropbox.com/t/DO1UyH8HNE7xvyyG by the way, the RA rates are noted in the APPC log. if you take the PHD log and check the raw data, you see a long period oscillation Thank you Andrea -- Brian Brian Valente astro portfolio https://www.brianvalentephotography.com/astrophotography/ portfolio brianvalentephotography.com astrobin https://www.astrobin.com/users/bvalente/ -- Brian Brian Valente astro portfolio https://www.brianvalentephotography.com/astrophotography/ portfolio brianvalentephotography.com astrobin https://www.astrobin.com/users/bvalente/ -- Roland Christen Astro-Physics
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Roland Christen #90279 You attached a picture in your last post. Please explain what this is. Scale, time period, etc. Rolando toggle quoted message Show quoted text -----Original Message----- From: Andrea Lucchetti <andlucchett@...> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io Sent: Tue, Nov 15, 2022 4:06 pm Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPC & Mach2: Dec Arc model results and RA drift connection? #APCC #Mach2GTO Thank you Brian. if you look at the RA line in the guiding plot you see that is almost always below zero. The scatter diagram too is not centered. I am trying to understand if this could be caused by drift, but I am not sure. I had to increase aggressiveness to try to compensate for this. if you click on "drift " on the box you posted, you see that drift in DEC is 0, pol align error is zero, but RA drift is -0.26 arcsec/min. The same is visible in the plot of raw RA (see photo attached), where you can see the cumulated drift over the 4 hours. the difference between DEC and RA is clear. My eccentricity is reported to be 0.55 on average at the center of the field. This eccentricity is about the same in different nights, sky objects and with different rotation of the camera Il giorno mar 15 nov 2022 alle ore 22:49 Brian Valente <bvalente@...> ha scritto: Hi Andrea Great that worked Looking at your 4 hour run, your total RMS is 0.45" with RA RMS 0.30" and Dec RMS 0.28". this should result in nice tight round stars it looks pretty good to me. Can you point out what concerns you? On Tue, Nov 15, 2022 at 1:30 PM Andrea Lucchetti <andlucchett@...> wrote: thank you for your patient :-) Il giorno mar 15 nov 2022 alle ore 22:24 Brian Valente <bvalente@...> ha scritto: getting closer :) that is the debug log, i'm looking for the guidelog if you just want to upload the one file here that would be great On Tue, Nov 15, 2022 at 1:17 PM Andrea Lucchetti <andlucchett@...> wrote: I am so sorry. try this last one: https://www.dropbox.com/t/RkiXJYks4atlQJ2P I've verified the link, it should be there. let me know if it doesn't work thank you Il giorno mar 15 nov 2022 alle ore 22:12 Brian Valente <bvalente@...> ha scritto: sorry I still don't see a guidelog in there? On Tue, Nov 15, 2022 at 12:57 PM Andrea Lucchetti <andlucchett@...> wrote: I am sorry, try this one: https://www.dropbox.com/t/DO1UyH8HNE7xvyyG by the way, the RA rates are noted in the APPC log. if you take the PHD log and check the raw data, you see a long period oscillation Thank you Andrea -- Brian Brian Valente astro portfolio https://www.brianvalentephotography.com/astrophotography/ portfolio brianvalentephotography.com astrobin https://www.astrobin.com/users/bvalente/ -- Brian Brian Valente astro portfolio https://www.brianvalentephotography.com/astrophotography/ portfolio brianvalentephotography.com astrobin https://www.astrobin.com/users/bvalente/ -- Brian Brian Valente astro portfolio https://www.brianvalentephotography.com/astrophotography/ portfolio brianvalentephotography.com astrobin https://www.astrobin.com/users/bvalente/ -- Roland Christen Astro-Physics
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Roland Christen #90281 I guess my post went out into the vapor-sphere and got lost. Andrea, if you don't mind, please use APCC Terminal mode and type in the following commands. Let me know what the responses are: $RS# $RA# $RN# $GOS# $GR# $GD# Thanks. It will go a long way to perhaps explain what might be happening. Rolando toggle quoted message Show quoted text -----Original Message----- From: chris1011@... To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> Sent: Tue, Nov 15, 2022 4:59 pm Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPC & Mach2: Dec Arc model results and RA drift connection? #APCC #Mach2GTO You attached a picture in your last post. Please explain what this is. Scale, time period, etc. Rolando -----Original Message----- From: Andrea Lucchetti <andlucchett@...> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io Sent: Tue, Nov 15, 2022 4:06 pm Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPC & Mach2: Dec Arc model results and RA drift connection? #APCC #Mach2GTO Thank you Brian. if you look at the RA line in the guiding plot you see that is almost always below zero. The scatter diagram too is not centered. I am trying to understand if this could be caused by drift, but I am not sure. I had to increase aggressiveness to try to compensate for this. if you click on "drift " on the box you posted, you see that drift in DEC is 0, pol align error is zero, but RA drift is -0.26 arcsec/min. The same is visible in the plot of raw RA (see photo attached), where you can see the cumulated drift over the 4 hours. the difference between DEC and RA is clear. My eccentricity is reported to be 0.55 on average at the center of the field. This eccentricity is about the same in different nights, sky objects and with different rotation of the camera Il giorno mar 15 nov 2022 alle ore 22:49 Brian Valente <bvalente@...> ha scritto: Hi Andrea Great that worked Looking at your 4 hour run, your total RMS is 0.45" with RA RMS 0.30" and Dec RMS 0.28". this should result in nice tight round stars it looks pretty good to me. Can you point out what concerns you? On Tue, Nov 15, 2022 at 1:30 PM Andrea Lucchetti <andlucchett@...> wrote: thank you for your patient :-) Il giorno mar 15 nov 2022 alle ore 22:24 Brian Valente <bvalente@...> ha scritto: getting closer :) that is the debug log, i'm looking for the guidelog if you just want to upload the one file here that would be great On Tue, Nov 15, 2022 at 1:17 PM Andrea Lucchetti <andlucchett@...> wrote: I am so sorry. try this last one: https://www.dropbox.com/t/RkiXJYks4atlQJ2P I've verified the link, it should be there. let me know if it doesn't work thank you Il giorno mar 15 nov 2022 alle ore 22:12 Brian Valente <bvalente@...> ha scritto: sorry I still don't see a guidelog in there? On Tue, Nov 15, 2022 at 12:57 PM Andrea Lucchetti <andlucchett@...> wrote: I am sorry, try this one: https://www.dropbox.com/t/DO1UyH8HNE7xvyyG by the way, the RA rates are noted in the APPC log. if you take the PHD log and check the raw data, you see a long period oscillation Thank you Andrea -- Brian Brian Valente astro portfolio https://www.brianvalentephotography.com/astrophotography/ portfolio brianvalentephotography.com astrobin https://www.astrobin.com/users/bvalente/ -- Brian Brian Valente astro portfolio https://www.brianvalentephotography.com/astrophotography/ portfolio brianvalentephotography.com astrobin https://www.astrobin.com/users/bvalente/ -- Brian Brian Valente astro portfolio https://www.brianvalentephotography.com/astrophotography/ portfolio brianvalentephotography.com astrobin https://www.astrobin.com/users/bvalente/ -- Roland Christen Astro-Physics
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Brian Valente #90282 This view may help some Pier Side West - this is RA over 4 hours scale is on left +/- 5" hiccupy-things (flexure, sag, cable snag, mirror flop, seeing, who knows) indicated by small arcs Pier Side East - this is RA over 3 hours scale is on the left +/- 5" same hiccupy-things indication toggle quoted message Show quoted text On Tue, Nov 15, 2022 at 2:59 PM Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote: You attached a picture in your last post. Please explain what this is. Scale, time period, etc. Rolando -----Original Message----- From: Andrea Lucchetti <andlucchett@...> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io Sent: Tue, Nov 15, 2022 4:06 pm Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPC & Mach2: Dec Arc model results and RA drift connection? #APCC #Mach2GTO Thank you Brian. if you look at the RA line in the guiding plot you see that is almost always below zero. The scatter diagram too is not centered. I am trying to understand if this could be caused by drift, but I am not sure. I had to increase aggressiveness to try to compensate for this. if you click on "drift " on the box you posted, you see that drift in DEC is 0, pol align error is zero, but RA drift is -0.26 arcsec/min. The same is visible in the plot of raw RA (see photo attached), where you can see the cumulated drift over the 4 hours. the difference between DEC and RA is clear. My eccentricity is reported to be 0.55 on average at the center of the field. This eccentricity is about the same in different nights, sky objects and with different rotation of the camera Il giorno mar 15 nov 2022 alle ore 22:49 Brian Valente <bvalente@...> ha scritto: Hi Andrea Great that worked Looking at your 4 hour run, your total RMS is 0.45" with RA RMS 0.30" and Dec RMS 0.28". this should result in nice tight round stars it looks pretty good to me. Can you point out what concerns you? On Tue, Nov 15, 2022 at 1:30 PM Andrea Lucchetti <andlucchett@...> wrote: thank you for your patient :-) Il giorno mar 15 nov 2022 alle ore 22:24 Brian Valente <bvalente@...> ha scritto: getting closer :) that is the debug log, i'm looking for the guidelog if you just want to upload the one file here that would be great On Tue, Nov 15, 2022 at 1:17 PM Andrea Lucchetti <andlucchett@...> wrote: I am so sorry. try this last one: https://www.dropbox.com/t/RkiXJYks4atlQJ2P I've verified the link, it should be there. let me know if it doesn't work thank you Il giorno mar 15 nov 2022 alle ore 22:12 Brian Valente <bvalente@...> ha scritto: sorry I still don't see a guidelog in there? On Tue, Nov 15, 2022 at 12:57 PM Andrea Lucchetti <andlucchett@...> wrote: I am sorry, try this one: https://www.dropbox.com/t/DO1UyH8HNE7xvyyG by the way, the RA rates are noted in the APPC log. if you take the PHD log and check the raw data, you see a long period oscillation Thank you Andrea -- Brian Brian Valente astro portfolio https://www.brianvalentephotography.com/astrophotography/ portfolio brianvalentephotography.com astrobin https://www.astrobin.com/users/bvalente/ -- Brian Brian Valente astro portfolio https://www.brianvalentephotography.com/astrophotography/ portfolio brianvalentephotography.com astrobin https://www.astrobin.com/users/bvalente/ -- Brian Brian Valente astro portfolio https://www.brianvalentephotography.com/astrophotography/ portfolio brianvalentephotography.com astrobin https://www.astrobin.com/users/bvalente/ -- Roland Christen Astro-Physics -- Brian Brian Valente astro portfolio https://www.brianvalentephotography.com/astrophotography/ portfolio brianvalentephotography.com astrobin https://www.astrobin.com/users/bvalente/
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