APCC Pro appears to have crashed and all settings reverted back to factory settings #APCC


Chris White
 
Edited

I awoke this morning to find my capture software and APCC Pro had closed.  Neither was frozen or anything, just the apps were not active.  PHD2, Pegasus Power Box, Planetary, etc... were all open, so the computer didnt do an update or anything.

When I opened APCC Pro this morning all settings had reverted back to the factory settings.  All of my mount info, horizon info, modeling etc is gone.  I know some of this is recoverable as the profiles for horzon/model are saved. 

I have no idea what went wrong.  I've attached the log so maybe someone can help me out, or Ray can take a look.  I'm hoping there is a way to reload all of my APCC Pro settings as I dont want to have to go through all that setup again.  Also, hoping to understand what went wrong and why the program crashed in the first place. 

For some reason there are two logs from last night. 

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/jjauxufz4jri67c/AABdWOoYux0muL49Q01GCcava?dl=0

Thank you,


Dale Ghent
 

The answer to what happened is at the bottom of your 2nd log file:

0805685 2021-07-110849564 2021-07-11 06:34:13.743:     Severe,  Command Thread, FindFreeQacIndex: no free entries!
0849565 2021-07-11 06:34:14.090:      Debug,  Command Thread, TX = '#:GP#'
0849566 2021-07-11 06:34:25.933:  Exception,                , Exception of type 'System.OutOfMemoryException' was thrown.
0849567 2021-07-11 06:34:25.933:     Severe,  Command Thread, FindFreeQacIndex: no free entries!
0849568 2021-07-11 06:34:27.138:  Exception,  Command Thread, Exception of type 'System.OutOfMemoryException' was thrown.

APCC Pro was unable to allocate memory so it did the normal thing for an app in such a situation and crashed/quit. I reckon that the same thing happened with your capture app.

The question that remains is why your system had so much memory pressure that an app could not allocate more. Unless you have something that actively monitors and records memory usage then this will likely remain a mystery. You might get lucky and find hints in the Windows events log, though. 


On Jul 11, 2021, at 07:44, Chris White <chris.white@...> wrote:

I awoke this morning to find my capture software and APCC Pro had closed.  Neither was frozen or anything, just the apps were not active.  PHD2, Pegasus Power Box, Planetary, etc... were all open, so the computer didnt do an update or anything.

When I opened APCC Pro this morning all settings had reverted back to the factory settings.  All of my mount info, horizon info, modeling etc is gone.  I know some of this is recoverable as the profiles for horzon/model are saved. 

I have no idea what went wrong.  I've attached the log so maybe someone can help me out, or Ray can take a look.  I'm hoping there is a way to reload all of my APCC Pro settings as I dont want to have to go through all that setup again.  Also, hoping to understand what went wrong and why the program crashed in the first place. 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/q801oczubf90h3t/APCC-2021-05-10-183306.txt?dl=0

Thank you,


Chris White
 

On Sun, Jul 11, 2021 at 08:09 AM, Dale Ghent wrote:
The answer to what happened is at the bottom of your 2nd log file:
Thank you Dale.  Appreciate the quick help.

As to why I ran out of memory... thats a good question.  I have 8GB on this PC which should be more than enough.  Never had this problem before.  I've also still got several GB free of hard drive space, and all captures are sent to a secondary M2 drive. 

As to your suggestion about looking into Windows Event Logs.... I'm not really sure where to start. 

As to my question about being able to recover my old settings, I was able to do that with an auto backup that APCC made sometime yesterday evening.  This part is a HUGE relief.  Whew.


Joe Zeglinski
 

Hi Chris,
 
    You should at least run Win-10-> Admin Tools-> Windows Memory Diagnostic, and not just the default quick 2 minute one, but specify several more passes, run all day if necessary, according to your time or preference. In an 8-GB system,  just takes one of the two memory modules to suddenly become inaccessible.
 
    I’m not an an expert, but experienced some very difficult issues recently, with my M2 slot type,  SSD.
    That other culprit is any M2-interfaced  SSD drive’s operating temperature. They run much hotter, especially SAMSUNG’s,  than the average standard SATA interfaced hard drive  bay replacement SSD, and their temperatures can quickly & easily hit 65 C or more.
 
    I think 75C is their DRAM’s,  NAND gates protective shutdown, for any M2 type, so maybe its final stage protection is to shut down the PC rather than just the M2-SSD. They normally “throttle” their own drive access speed, gradually,  as their temperature rises. Maybe the final critical temps cause a full “system protective” shutdown. If that happened and it was the main storage C-Drive, then there would be a shutdown as the final throttle stage. However, since your “dedicated imaging drive”,  is a secondary storage M2, a total system crash “may not” happen.
 
   I had that problem this past January, on my ASUS motherboard’s M2 slot,  when I attached a new  2-TB, “SAMSUNG 970 EVO PLUS (M2) SSD” main drive (with its passive heat sink), until I placed a dedicated 4” fan, blowing directly on it, inside my desktop case. Even a Gaming type laptop, with some cooler running  M2-SSD’s,  would crash quicker, due to  small fan(s) in a confined space.  However, less powerful one’s like WD versions, run somewhat cooler, even in a laptop.
 
    Just speculating.
Joe Z.


Ray Gralak
 

Hi Chris,

It looks like you deleted your log file, so a couple of questions:

* Do you recall which APCC windows you had open?
* How long had APCC been running?

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Chris White
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2021 4:44 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: [ap-gto] APCC Pro appears to have crashed and all settings reverted back to factory settings #APCC

I awoke this morning to find my capture software and APCC Pro had closed. Neither was frozen or anything, just
the apps were not active. PHD2, Pegasus Power Box, Planetary, etc... were all open, so the computer didnt do an
update or anything.

When I opened APCC Pro this morning all settings had reverted back to the factory settings. All of my mount info,
horizon info, modeling etc is gone. I know some of this is recoverable as the profiles for horzon/model are saved.

I have no idea what went wrong. I've attached the log so maybe someone can help me out, or Ray can take a look.
I'm hoping there is a way to reload all of my APCC Pro settings as I dont want to have to go through all that setup
again. Also, hoping to understand what went wrong and why the program crashed in the first place.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/q801oczubf90h3t/APCC-2021-05-10-183306.txt?dl=0

Thank you,


Chris White
 

On Sun, Jul 11, 2021 at 09:56 AM, Ray Gralak wrote:
Hi Chris,

It looks like you deleted your log file, so a couple of questions:

* Do you recall which APCC windows you had open?
* How long had APCC been running?

-Ray
Good morning Ray.  Here is the correct link:  https://www.dropbox.com/sh/jjauxufz4jri67c/AABdWOoYux0muL49Q01GCcava?dl=0


Eric Claeys
 

Out of memory errors don't necessarily mean the PC is out of memory since it will use swap when the total memory in use is more than the physical memory in the PC.

Often that error means the application has run out of memory space.  A 32-bit application like APCC can use up to 4 GB, but IIRC only gets 3 GB by default.  If APCC has a major memory leak issue, it could run out of memory and give that error.


Ray Gralak
 

Chris,

Thanks for the logs. I think I see the problem.

At around 3:40 am another process had APCC's settings file (settings.apcc) locked, and APCC started throwing exceptions. There were 2600+ exceptions, and probably explains why your settings were corrupted/lost.

338865 2021-07-11 03:40:49.861: Exception, XMLProxy, Exception reading XML data for file: C:\ProgramData\Astro-Physics\APCC\Settings.apcc -- The process cannot access the file 'C:\ProgramData\Astro-Physics\APCC\Settings.apcc' because it is being used by another process.

I suspect each of these exceptions was causing a memory leak which eventually exhausted memory. So, the question is, do you know what other application might have locked settings.apcc?

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Chris White
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2021 7:30 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APCC Pro appears to have crashed and all settings reverted back to factory settings #APCC

On Sun, Jul 11, 2021 at 09:56 AM, Ray Gralak wrote:


Hi Chris,

It looks like you deleted your log file, so a couple of questions:

* Do you recall which APCC windows you had open?
* How long had APCC been running?

-Ray

Good morning Ray. Here is the correct link:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/jjauxufz4jri67c/AABdWOoYux0muL49Q01GCcava?dl=0


Chris White
 

On Sun, Jul 11, 2021 at 01:27 PM, Ray Gralak wrote:
I suspect each of these exceptions was causing a memory leak which eventually exhausted memory. So, the question is, do you know what other application might have locked settings.apcc?
Interesting, and thanks for looking Ray.  I'm not sure how to know what application might have done it, but I can outline what software I am using.

APCC Pro
PHD2 (Beta with multistar guiding)
Voyager
Pegasus Power Advance with humidity and temp (which is connected to APCC Pro)
Hallo Northern Sky

As far as I know the only programs interfacing with APCC would be Voyager and PHD through virtual ports, Pegasus Advance and I am connected to an online source for barometric pressure).

Do you have any suggestions on how to determine what might have caused the problem? 





Christopher Erickson
 

Possibly a drive backup program?


-Christopher Erickson
Observatory engineer
Waikoloa, HI 96738
www.summitkinetics.com
   

On Sun, Jul 11, 2021, 12:25 PM Chris White <chris.white@...> wrote:
On Sun, Jul 11, 2021 at 01:27 PM, Ray Gralak wrote:
I suspect each of these exceptions was causing a memory leak which eventually exhausted memory. So, the question is, do you know what other application might have locked settings.apcc?
Interesting, and thanks for looking Ray.  I'm not sure how to know what application might have done it, but I can outline what software I am using.

APCC Pro
PHD2 (Beta with multistar guiding)
Voyager
Pegasus Power Advance with humidity and temp (which is connected to APCC Pro)
Hallo Northern Sky

As far as I know the only programs interfacing with APCC would be Voyager and PHD through virtual ports, Pegasus Advance and I am connected to an online source for barometric pressure).

Do you have any suggestions on how to determine what might have caused the problem? 





Ray Gralak
 

Do you have any suggestions on how to determine what might have caused the problem?
Chris, sorry, but there is no way to tell which application locked APCC's settings file. If it happens again you might be able to use one of the methods mentioned here:

https://www.winhelponline.com/blog/find-process-locked-file-openfiles-utility/

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Chris White
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2021 12:25 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APCC Pro appears to have crashed and all settings reverted back to factory settings #APCC

On Sun, Jul 11, 2021 at 01:27 PM, Ray Gralak wrote:


I suspect each of these exceptions was causing a memory leak which eventually exhausted memory. So, the
question is, do you know what other application might have locked settings.apcc?

Interesting, and thanks for looking Ray. I'm not sure how to know what application might have done it, but I can
outline what software I am using.

APCC Pro
PHD2 (Beta with multistar guiding)
Voyager
Pegasus Power Advance with humidity and temp (which is connected to APCC Pro)
Hallo Northern Sky

As far as I know the only programs interfacing with APCC would be Voyager and PHD through virtual ports,
Pegasus Advance and I am connected to an online source for barometric pressure).

Do you have any suggestions on how to determine what might have caused the problem?






Ray Gralak
 

Possibly a drive backup program?
Maybe, but it was locked for several *hours*!

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Christopher Erickson
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2021 12:30 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APCC Pro appears to have crashed and all settings reverted back to factory settings #APCC

Possibly a drive backup program?



-Christopher Erickson
Observatory engineer
Waikoloa, HI 96738
www.summitkinetics.com


On Sun, Jul 11, 2021, 12:25 PM Chris White <chris.white@whitephotogallery.com> wrote:


On Sun, Jul 11, 2021 at 01:27 PM, Ray Gralak wrote:


I suspect each of these exceptions was causing a memory leak which eventually exhausted memory.
So, the question is, do you know what other application might have locked settings.apcc?

Interesting, and thanks for looking Ray. I'm not sure how to know what application might have done it, but I
can outline what software I am using.

APCC Pro
PHD2 (Beta with multistar guiding)
Voyager
Pegasus Power Advance with humidity and temp (which is connected to APCC Pro)
Hallo Northern Sky

As far as I know the only programs interfacing with APCC would be Voyager and PHD through virtual ports,
Pegasus Advance and I am connected to an online source for barometric pressure).

Do you have any suggestions on how to determine what might have caused the problem?







Chris White
 

Thanks Guys. 

I dont have a drive backup program.  Just running a barebones capture PC.  I only have about 2GB of free space on my hard drive, so I have files saving to an M2 drive.  It's a minix mini PC that I've used for several years now. 

I've heard that hard drive can be used as a virtual RAM.  I wonder if that could help this kind of situation?  My suggestions are unfounded by any real logic.  I know how to use my computer, but I dont know how it works. 

Thanks,


Dale Ghent
 



No, don’t go down the rabbit hole of thinking disk-backed virtual memory will save you from anything. It only delays such a problem’s eventual conclusion and is a waste of good drive space. 

On Jul 11, 2021, at 18:16, Chris White <chris.white@...> wrote:



Thanks Guys. 

I dont have a drive backup program.  Just running a barebones capture PC.  I only have about 2GB of free space on my hard drive, so I have files saving to an M2 drive.  It's a minix mini PC that I've used for several years now. 

I've heard that hard drive can be used as a virtual RAM.  I wonder if that could help this kind of situation?  My suggestions are unfounded by any real logic.  I know how to use my computer, but I dont know how it works. 

Thanks,


Chris White
 

Thanks.

I sure hope its not going to happen again. What was particularly troubling is that after APCC closed, my mount just continued to track without protection of APCC limits.  Thankfully the target I was imaging was pretty high so the mount was just pointed near the top of the wall of my obsy, but I could have easily had a pier crash had I been imaging to the east when this happened. 


Ray Gralak
 

Chris,

I sure hope its not going to happen again. What was particularly troubling is that after APCC closed, my mount just
continued to track without protection of APCC limits. Thankfully the target I was imaging was pretty high so the
mount was just pointed near the top of the wall of my obsy, but I could have easily had a pier crash had I been
imaging to the east when this happened.
Are you sure about that? When APCC disconnects the mount will stop tracking after a short period of time. This feature is not in APCC but in the mount. That is, if the mount does not see any commands from APCC it will stop tracking in about a minute.
This was added into the mount's firmware exactly for cases such as APCC crashing, or the connection to the mount is lost.

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Chris White
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2021 5:01 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APCC Pro appears to have crashed and all settings reverted back to factory settings #APCC

Thanks.

I sure hope its not going to happen again. What was particularly troubling is that after APCC closed, my mount just
continued to track without protection of APCC limits. Thankfully the target I was imaging was pretty high so the
mount was just pointed near the top of the wall of my obsy, but I could have easily had a pier crash had I been
imaging to the east when this happened.


Chris White
 
Edited

On Mon, Jul 12, 2021 at 08:10 AM, Ray Gralak wrote:
Are you sure about that? When APCC disconnects the mount will stop tracking after a short period of time. This feature is not in APCC but in the mount. That is, if the mount does not see any commands from APCC it will stop tracking in about a minute.
This was added into the mount's firmware exactly for cases such as APCC crashing, or the connection to the mount is lost.

-Ray
I believe so.  My mount was still pointed at my target at 7am, which by that time was well below my tree-line. (Target in Cygnus).  There was still an ASCOM window open and it also said "tracking".  When I closed everything down and I realized that APCC had factory reset, I connected to the mount directly through it's port (not virtual port) and parked the mount.  It parked in the correct position.  I'm not sure exactly when APCC crashed, but my capture program crashed and my last sub came in at a little after 3am. 


Ray Gralak
 

Chris,

If the driver was still active then APCC didn't actually crash. APCC pre-builds a circular queue of command structures, so it would not need to allocate memory to send commands. And the meridian limits are loaded into memory so they would still be intact until you restarted APCC (because of the lock on the settings file from another app).

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Chris White
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2021 6:27 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APCC Pro appears to have crashed and all settings reverted back to factory settings #APCC

On Mon, Jul 12, 2021 at 08:10 AM, Ray Gralak wrote:


Are you sure about that? When APCC disconnects the mount will stop tracking after a short period of time.
This feature is not in APCC but in the mount. That is, if the mount does not see any commands from APCC it will
stop tracking in about a minute.
This was added into the mount's firmware exactly for cases such as APCC crashing, or the connection to the
mount is lost.

-Ray

I believe so. My mount was still pointed at my target at 7am, which by that time was well below my tree-line.
(Target in Cygnus). There was still an ASCOM window open and it also said "tracking". When I closed everything
down and I realized that APCC had factory reset, I connected to the mount directly through it's port (not virtual port)
and parked the mount. It parked in the correct position.


Ray Gralak
 

my last sub came in at a little after 3am.
APCC did not crash at 3am. It was at least 3 hours later when APCC ran out of memory, presumably because of throwing exceptions because it could not access its settings file.

Also, the mount had already "flipped" (pierside=East, pointing West) so a meridian limit would not apply. If you had a Horizon limit, that would stop the mount, but I don't see any indication of one being reached in your log file.

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Chris White
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2021 6:27 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APCC Pro appears to have crashed and all settings reverted back to factory settings #APCC

[Edited Message Follows]

On Mon, Jul 12, 2021 at 08:10 AM, Ray Gralak wrote:


Are you sure about that? When APCC disconnects the mount will stop tracking after a short period of time.
This feature is not in APCC but in the mount. That is, if the mount does not see any commands from APCC it will
stop tracking in about a minute.
This was added into the mount's firmware exactly for cases such as APCC crashing, or the connection to the
mount is lost.

-Ray

I believe so. My mount was still pointed at my target at 7am, which by that time was well below my tree-line.
(Target in Cygnus). There was still an ASCOM window open and it also said "tracking". When I closed everything
down and I realized that APCC had factory reset, I connected to the mount directly through it's port (not virtual port)
and parked the mount. It parked in the correct position. I'm not sure exactly when APCC crashed, but my capture
program crashed and my last sub came in at a little after 3am.


Chris White
 

Thanks Ray.   Thats a relief.  I dont believe my Horizon limits are set to stop tracking, but I'll confirm and put that in as a safeguard if its not. 

Curious though, if APCC was throwing exceptions for several hours was it still in control of the mount during that time?