APCC - Bad X Scale?


Bill Long
 



No idea what this means, nor what to do based on this message?


Bill Long
 

APCC is completely broken with this same error:



From: Bill Long <bill@...>
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2022 10:40 PM
To: AP-GTO Groups.io <ap-gto@groups.io>
Subject: APCC - Bad X Scale?
 


No idea what this means, nor what to do based on this message?


Roland Christen
 

I have experienced that when I put in the wrong pixel scale.

Roland

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Long <bill@...>
To: AP-GTO Groups.io <ap-gto@groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Jun 24, 2022 12:40 am
Subject: [ap-gto] APCC - Bad X Scale?



No idea what this means, nor what to do based on this message?

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


 

Bill I see this topic was covered in some other threads

Ray's first response to this seemed to solve it




On Thu, Jun 23, 2022 at 10:46 PM Bill Long <bill@...> wrote:
APCC is completely broken with this same error:



From: Bill Long <bill@...>
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2022 10:40 PM
To: AP-GTO Groups.io <ap-gto@groups.io>
Subject: APCC - Bad X Scale?
 


No idea what this means, nor what to do based on this message?




Roland Christen
 

Check your pixel scale that you put into the plate solve settings. Make sure that you use the scale for 1x1 binning, even if you are using 2x2 for the images.

Roland

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Long <bill@...>
To: AP-GTO Groups.io <ap-gto@groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Jun 24, 2022 12:46 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APCC - Bad X Scale?

APCC is completely broken with this same error:



From: Bill Long <bill@...>
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2022 10:40 PM
To: AP-GTO Groups.io <ap-gto@groups.io>
Subject: APCC - Bad X Scale?
 


No idea what this means, nor what to do based on this message?

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Bill Long
 

Ray,

This is an easy fix, other than changing the text to "Bad X Scale" which isnt useful to a single human on the planet, change this to "ERROR: Check image scale."

Errors CAN tell people how to solve the problem, if you bother to print that to them.  "Bad X Scale" is about as useful as OxBEEFTURD.

-bill

PS: Thanks Roland, that was the fix. 🙂 



From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011@...>
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2022 10:49 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APCC - Bad X Scale?
 
I have experienced that when I put in the wrong pixel scale.

Roland

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Long <bill@...>
To: AP-GTO Groups.io <ap-gto@groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Jun 24, 2022 12:40 am
Subject: [ap-gto] APCC - Bad X Scale?



No idea what this means, nor what to do based on this message?

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Roland Christen
 


OxBEEFTURD.
Me like!  Smile  :^))

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Long <bill@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Jun 24, 2022 12:55 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APCC - Bad X Scale?

Ray,

This is an easy fix, other than changing the text to "Bad X Scale" which isnt useful to a single human on the planet, change this to "ERROR: Check image scale."

Errors CAN tell people how to solve the problem, if you bother to print that to them.  "Bad X Scale" is about as useful as OxBEEFTURD.

-bill

PS: Thanks Roland, that was the fix. 🙂 



From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011@...>
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2022 10:49 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APCC - Bad X Scale?
 
I have experienced that when I put in the wrong pixel scale.

Roland

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Long <bill@...>
To: AP-GTO Groups.io <ap-gto@groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Jun 24, 2022 12:40 am
Subject: [ap-gto] APCC - Bad X Scale?



No idea what this means, nor what to do based on this message?

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Ray Gralak
 

Hi Bill,

It occurs because the image scale returned by a successful plate solve is different from the value configured on the plate solve tab.

This is an easy fix, other than changing the text to "Bad X Scale" which isnt useful to a single human on the
planet, change this to "ERROR: Check image scale."
There are two possible reasons for this message:

1) The plate solve was a false solution (usually the cause) and produced a bad image scale value.
2) The user incorrectly set the image scale on the plate solve tab.

So, "ERROR: Check Image Scale" would be misleading in most cases as the user may be tempted to adjust the image scale instead of realizing the plate solve was at fault. And, the length of the text is too long for the grid. It would get clipped in its column in the grid, or force all of the columns to the right, limiting the data visible unless the window is expanded.

-Ray


Bill Long
 

Either way, telling the user Bad X Scale, is useless. There is nothing they can do in terms of the UI to solve that, Ray.  

Lets flip this around, what did you, as the developer assume people would do with the error message of "Bad X Scale"? 


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <iogroups@...>
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2022 11:28 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APCC - Bad X Scale?
 
Hi Bill,

It occurs because the image scale returned by a successful plate solve is different from the value configured on the plate solve tab.

> This is an easy fix, other than changing the text to "Bad X Scale" which isnt useful to a single human on the
> planet, change this to "ERROR: Check image scale."

There are two possible reasons for this message:

1) The plate solve was a false solution (usually the cause) and produced a bad image scale value.
2) The user incorrectly set the image scale on the plate solve tab.

So, "ERROR: Check Image Scale" would be misleading in most cases as the user may be tempted to adjust the image scale instead of realizing the plate solve was at fault. And, the length of the text is too long for the grid. It would get clipped in its column in the grid, or force all of the columns to the right, limiting the data visible unless the window is expanded.

-Ray








midmoastro
 

I understand Bill's point and your response, Ray. Perhaps something in the manual that gave a better description of what common errors, mean? If I can Google-Fu it, or search for the error in a PDF it would be easy. Or just a dedicated section somewhere with all the common error codes and a brief description.
Anyway, just some additional thoughts.
Todd


Bill Long
 

I think that's fine.

I recall a story about a software pioneer that got incredibly frustrated that software did a good job of catching and reporting issues, but a not so good job of telling one how to fix it.

Users don't really care if you catch the error, insofar as the software continues to run. They do care though about the information shared with them at the time of the error itself.





From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of midmoastro <teche70@...>
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2022 4:59 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APCC - Bad X Scale?
 
I understand Bill's point and your response, Ray. Perhaps something in the manual that gave a better description of what common errors, mean? If I can Google-Fu it, or search for the error in a PDF it would be easy. Or just a dedicated section somewhere with all the common error codes and a brief description.
Anyway, just some additional thoughts.
Todd


Thomas Swann
 

On 6/24/2022 6:28 AM, Ray Gralak wrote:
...And, the length of the text is too long for the grid. It would get clipped in its column in the grid, or force all of the columns to the right, limiting the data visible unless the window is expanded.
You could put the entire string in the column of the list control without resizing the column or something shorter like "Error..." if the column text would be clipped.  Then have a mouse over that displays the entire more descriptive string.


Ray Gralak
 

Hi Bill,

 

> Either way, telling the user Bad X Scale, is useless. There is nothing they can do in terms of the UI to solve that,

 

I understand, but it does have unique text that you can use in a browser search if a user does not know what it means. And BTW, in the code, it (exactly)means that the plate solved image's X-axis image scale is outside the image scale tolerance. You can avoid this error if you follow the recommendation in the APPM help section,  which is displayed in a different color and bold text. I’ve marked the relevant text in this screenshot:

 

 

>

> Lets flip this around, what did you, as the developer assume people would do with the error message of "Bad X

> Scale"?

 

I would expect peope to either post a message to the ap-gto forum, as you did, or find the answer by doing this obvious google keyword search:

 

APPM “Bad X Scale”

 

As a developer and user of Windows since the very first version, I've seen many Windows error messages and hex codes that are pretty meaningless. Although I agree the goal should always be to present a message that helps the user, there are cases where giving a long explanation can be confusing too.

 

That said, I’ll see if I can come up with a better short phrase for “the plate-solve’s image scale doesn’t fall within the tolerance of the configured image scale”.

 

-Ray


Ray Gralak
 

Hi Todd,

I understand Bill's point and your response, Ray. Perhaps something in the manual that gave a better description
of what common errors, mean? If I can Google-Fu it, or search for the error in a PDF it would be easy. Or just a
dedicated section somewhere with all the common error codes and a brief description.
Anyway, just some additional thoughts.
Yes, putting a list of messages in the help file is something we could do, but it would be complicated to explain all reasons for some messages. What I've found is that even if I put detailed explanations of messages in the help file, most people won't look there anyway. They almost always post or email a question.

So, I think it's better to have users post their exact situation so there is less guesswork locating the source of an error. Technical support is built into the cost of most software products, including APCC, so that's what we try to do here.

-Ray


Ray Gralak
 

Thomas Swann wote:
On 6/24/2022 6:28 AM, Ray Gralak wrote:
...And, the length of the text is too long for the grid. It would get
clipped in its column in the grid, or force all of the columns to the
right, limiting the data visible unless the window is expanded.
You could put the entire string in the column of the list control
without resizing the column or something shorter like "Error..." if the
column text would be clipped. Then have a mouse over that displays the
entire more descriptive string.
That's a possibility. Thanks for the suggestion!

-Ray


midmoastro
 

Hi Ray, Understood.

That said, I can see where this may prevent a wasted night if its late and the support doesnt come in until the next day.
I don't know the details to implementing it so again, just food for thought.
Todd


Ray Gralak
 

Hi Todd,

That said, I can see where this may prevent a wasted night if its late and the support doesnt come in until the next
day.
I don't know the details to implementing it so again, just food for thought.
There should never be a wasted night. The "Bad X Scale" error is not fatal. It will not be continuous unless the image scale is set incorrectly, nd that is something that the user needs to correct. As I posted earlier, the section in the APPM manual recommends that the Refine Image scale checkbox be enabled, which would automatically fix the image scale, provided the plate solve works. And if the plate solve does not work, then image scale should be one of the first things to check.

-Ray


Dean Jacobsen
 

On Fri, Jun 24, 2022 at 07:17 AM, Ray Gralak wrote:
And if the plate solve does not work, then image scale should be one of the first things to check.
... and it has happened to me before... several times in fact as I frequently swap out reducers and cameras and then forget to adjust the pixel scale settings.  Now when I see the message I immediately know the fix.  But the first time it happened it took me a while to figure out the problem.
 
--
Dean Jacobsen
Astrobin Image Gallery - https://www.astrobin.com/users/deanjacobsen/


Bill Long
 

The odd thing is that I've never changed any of the plate solve settings, yet I've definitely changed scopes and cameras around. 



From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <iogroups@...>
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2022 7:17 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APCC - Bad X Scale?
 
Hi Todd,

> That said, I can see where this may prevent a wasted night if its late and the support doesnt come in until the next
> day.
> I don't know the details to implementing it so again, just food for thought.

There should never be a wasted night. The "Bad X Scale" error is not fatal. It will not be continuous unless the image scale is set incorrectly, nd that is something that the user needs to correct. As I posted earlier, the section in the APPM manual recommends that the Refine Image scale checkbox be enabled, which would automatically fix the image scale, provided the plate solve works. And if the plate solve does not work, then image scale should be one of the first things to check.

-Ray







Roland Christen
 

I've done so many odd things in my life that it's affecting my nightmares at night.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Long <bill@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Jun 24, 2022 11:51 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APCC - Bad X Scale?

The odd thing is that I've never changed any of the plate solve settings, yet I've definitely changed scopes and cameras around. 



From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <iogroups@...>
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2022 7:17 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APCC - Bad X Scale?
 
Hi Todd,

> That said, I can see where this may prevent a wasted night if its late and the support doesnt come in until the next
> day.
> I don't know the details to implementing it so again, just food for thought.

There should never be a wasted night. The "Bad X Scale" error is not fatal. It will not be continuous unless the image scale is set incorrectly, nd that is something that the user needs to correct. As I posted earlier, the section in the APPM manual recommends that the Refine Image scale checkbox be enabled, which would automatically fix the image scale, provided the plate solve works. And if the plate solve does not work, then image scale should be one of the first things to check.

-Ray







--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics