Topics

locked #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE #APCC


oros.philippe@...
 

Hi
I have been using my AP1100 since more that one year without major difficulties and with using with satisfaction the APPM models to make long unguided captures, but since one month or so I am fighting with a series of problems after I changed my imaging camera from ASI 1600 MMpro to ASI2600MC pro, I had first issues with SGP/Plate solve2 that I cured using ASTAP. but since then I am facing a blocking issue. When I try to make an APPM model, even is the process goes well I get numbers that seem very wrong and when tracking and pointing are selected I get totally erroneous tracking and pointing, that even led on night mu scope bump into the pier.
I've tried many times (and lot several good clear sky nights) to reinitialize everything (I killed the model files, reinit the mount after powering off etc..) and the problem is allways the same, I join screen copies of my last run tonight with a very simple model of 13 points (the APCC screens show before and after the model is created and loaded)
Thanks very much for your help, especially if Ray can have look, I've sent several messages to Howard and George at AP support but have got no answer;
Regards
Philippe
My setup:
AP1100GTOAE   GTOCP4 (last versions of firmware)
SGP last version
ASI2600MC pro
Canon EF L 400mm2.8 +x2@ 800mmFL
Sampling 1,01 arcsec/pix


Michael 'Mikey' Mangieri
 

I was just about to send a post about similar issues I have been having.  I’m new to APPM and haven’t yet zipped up the logs to send. In my case I get plate solve failures because of excess time as well as strangely large errors in the table - though not on the order of days (as in Phillippe’s case).  Thing is I can plate solve the image file just fine outside of the APPM process. 

Mikey


On Sep 13, 2020, at 4:02 PM, oros.philippe@... wrote:

Hi
I have been using my AP1100 since more that one year without major difficulties and with using with satisfaction the APPM models to make long unguided captures, but since one month or so I am fighting with a series of problems after I changed my imaging camera from ASI 1600 MMpro to ASI2600MC pro, I had first issues with SGP/Plate solve2 that I cured using ASTAP. but since then I am facing a blocking issue. When I try to make an APPM model, even is the process goes well I get numbers that seem very wrong and when tracking and pointing are selected I get totally erroneous tracking and pointing, that even led on night mu scope bump into the pier.
I've tried many times (and lot several good clear sky nights) to reinitialize everything (I killed the model files, reinit the mount after powering off etc..) and the problem is allways the same, I join screen copies of my last run tonight with a very simple model of 13 points (the APCC screens show before and after the model is created and loaded)
Thanks very much for your help, especially if Ray can have look, I've sent several messages to Howard and George at AP support but have got no answer;
Regards
Philippe
My setup:
AP1100GTOAE   GTOCP4 (last versions of firmware)
SGP last version
ASI2600MC pro
Canon EF L 400mm2.8 +x2@ 800mmFL
Sampling 1,01 arcsec/pix
<Capture d’écran 2020-09-13 à 21.11.22.png>
<Capture d’écran 2020-09-13 à 21.11.42.png>
<Capture d’écran 2020-09-13 à 21.11.52.png>
<Capture d’écran 2020-09-13 à 21.12.02.png>
<Capture d’écran 2020-09-13 à 21.15.38.png>
<Capture d’écran 2020-09-13 à 21.15.51.png>
<Capture d’écran 2020-09-13 à 21.16.36.png>


Ray Gralak
 

Hi Michael,

I'm to give you the same suggestion. I am guessing you have ASCOM 6.5 installed. If so, uninstall ASCOM 6.5 and install ASCOM 6.4SP1 at this link:

https://github.com/ASCOMInitiative/ASCOMPlatform/releases/tag/Build_2695

-Ray Gralak
Author of PEMPro
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Michael 'Mikey' Mangieri
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2020 2:50 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE

I was just about to send a post about similar issues I have been having. I’m new to APPM and haven’t yet
zipped up the logs to send. In my case I get plate solve failures because of excess time as well as strangely
large errors in the table - though not on the order of days (as in Phillippe’s case). Thing is I can plate solve the
image file just fine outside of the APPM process.

Mikey




On Sep 13, 2020, at 4:02 PM, oros.philippe@... wrote:



Hi
I have been using my AP1100 since more that one year without major difficulties and with using with
satisfaction the APPM models to make long unguided captures, but since one month or so I am fighting with a
series of problems after I changed my imaging camera from ASI 1600 MMpro to ASI2600MC pro, I had first
issues with SGP/Plate solve2 that I cured using ASTAP. but since then I am facing a blocking issue. When I try
to make an APPM model, even is the process goes well I get numbers that seem very wrong and when
tracking and pointing are selected I get totally erroneous tracking and pointing, that even led on night mu scope
bump into the pier.
I've tried many times (and lot several good clear sky nights) to reinitialize everything (I killed the model
files, reinit the mount after powering off etc..) and the problem is allways the same, I join screen copies of my
last run tonight with a very simple model of 13 points (the APCC screens show before and after the model is
created and loaded)
Thanks very much for your help, especially if Ray can have look, I've sent several messages to Howard
and George at AP support but have got no answer;
Regards
Philippe
My setup:
AP1100GTOAE GTOCP4 (last versions of firmware)
SGP last version
ASI2600MC pro
Canon EF L 400mm2.8 +x2@ 800mmFL
Sampling 1,01 arcsec/pix
<Capture d’écran 2020-09-13 à 21.11.22.png>
<Capture d’écran 2020-09-13 à 21.11.42.png>
<Capture d’écran 2020-09-13 à 21.11.52.png>
<Capture d’écran 2020-09-13 à 21.12.02.png>
<Capture d’écran 2020-09-13 à 21.15.38.png>
<Capture d’écran 2020-09-13 à 21.15.51.png>
<Capture d’écran 2020-09-13 à 21.16.36.png>


oros.philippe@...
 

Hey Mikey
Ray's suggestion worked for me, my problems disappear with Ascom 6.4SP1 !!
Philippe


Michael 'Mikey' Mangieri
 

That’s great. I’ll be trying it out again this evening. Hoping for a similar result. 


On Sep 14, 2020, at 4:25 AM, oros.philippe@... wrote:

Hey Mikey
Ray's suggestion worked for me, my problems disappear with Ascom 6.4SP1 !!
Philippe


Michael 'Mikey' Mangieri
 

Well I tried to test out APMM with ASCOM 6.4 last night.  Radar indicated wonderfully clear skies.  Except, no stars!  Yikes, overcast due to the smoke from the western fires! 

On 09/14/2020 8:46 AM Michael 'Mikey' Mangieri <mjmangieri@...> wrote:
 
 
That’s great. I’ll be trying it out again this evening. Hoping for a similar result. 

 

On Sep 14, 2020, at 4:25 AM, oros.philippe@... wrote:

Hey Mikey
Ray's suggestion worked for me, my problems disappear with Ascom 6.4SP1 !!
Philippe


Michael 'Mikey' Mangieri
 

Finally got a long string of clear skies.  ASCOM 6.4 solved the issue with the errors in APMM. Thanks.  
Now I'm having issues with ASTAP - had to revert back to PlateSolve2.  After a few successful solves, ASTAP stops working with a File error message (can't retrieve the file).  If I manually close ASTAP and let APMM continue it works for the next few solves then fails again.  Not sure if this is an ASTAP issue or APMM (or for that matter, SGP) issue.


Ray Gralak
 

Hi Mike,

APPM does not (yet) directly support ASTAP, but APPM should be able to use any plate solver that SGPro uses.

That said, APPM just uses the generic SGPro plate solver interface. If ASTAP is intermittently failing, it is probably for some reason in SGPro or ASTAP.

-Ray Gralak
Author of PEMPro
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Michael 'Mikey' Mangieri
Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2020 8:32 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE

Finally got a long string of clear skies. ASCOM 6.4 solved the issue with the errors in APMM. Thanks.
Now I'm having issues with ASTAP - had to revert back to PlateSolve2. After a few successful solves, ASTAP
stops working with a File error message (can't retrieve the file). If I manually close ASTAP and let APMM continue
it works for the next few solves then fails again. Not sure if this is an ASTAP issue or APMM (or for that matter,
SGP) issue.


Tony Flores
 

If ASCOM 6.5 has a problem why is it still on the website. Why not remove it until it is fixed?


Marcelo Figueroa
 
Edited

On Thu, Sep 24, 2020 at 10:58 AM, Ray Gralak wrote:
APPM does not (yet) directly support ASTAP, but APPM should be able to use any plate solver that SGPro uses.

That said, APPM just uses the generic SGPro plate solver interface. If ASTAP is intermittently failing, it is probably for some reason in SGPro or ASTAP.
Last week I ran a medium modeling using SGP/ASTAP without any problem, everything worked perfectly (ASCOM 6.4).

Edit:

Make sure that in APPM  > Plate Solving Settings  > SGP Pro Plate Solve Settings > Use FITS Header for RA, Dec and Image Scale  is selected.
 

 

 


Ray Gralak
 

If ASCOM 6.5 has a problem why is it still on the website. Why not remove it until it is fixed?
ASCOM is an independent group. We don't have control of what they put up on their web site. :-)

That said, there is nothing new in 6.5 that is needed for proper operation, so there is no rush (i.e., if it ain't broken!).

When I can test under clear skies I will hopefully track down the problem with 6.5; however, I don't think this is the only issue. I have seen others post problems with some devices under 6.5, so I think it is best to wait a while before updating.

-Ray Gralak
Author of PEMPro
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver


-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Flores via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2020 11:17 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE

If ASCOM 6.5 has a problem why is it still on the website. Why not remove it until it is fixed?


W Hilmo
 

I switched to ASTAP for my plate solves with SGP and am seeing what is probably the same issue described in the first post of this thread.

In my case, when I do a modeling run in APPM, everything works great until it doesn't. What I see when watching the operation is that it will fail a plate solve, and once that happens, it will fail all subsequent plate solves. Once it's in that state, I notice that there is an instance of ASTAP running in the background. If I terminate that instance, then everything starts working again, even on the same APPM run. Since I've been using ASTAP, it has not failed a single plate solve outside of an APPM run, but it's failed in at least three APPM runs.

I noticed the issue on a dark sky trip vacation back in July. While I was out on vacation, my employer contacted me to let me know that they'd eliminated my position after over 28 years, so I never went back to work after that. The good news is that I was only a few years from retiring anyway. After going over everything with our financial planner, I just went ahead and retired early. Since that point, we've been busy selling our home in the Seattle area and buying a new home on 40 acres in eastern Washington. The property is only about 10 miles from the original Table Mountain Star Party site. Astronomy has taken a back seat during this time (I haven't even looked at the data that I collected on that trip yet). We should be moving into the new home in mid-October. Once we settle the dust from the move, a permanent observatory is on the schedule and there will be lots more astronomy. Unless someone else figures out the ASTAP issue, I'll dig much deeper into it once I'm up and running again.

I mainly just wanted to toss it out that the issue in this thread might not be isolated.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ray Gralak
Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2020 12:17 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE

If ASCOM 6.5 has a problem why is it still on the website. Why not remove it until it is fixed?
ASCOM is an independent group. We don't have control of what they put up on their web site. :-)

That said, there is nothing new in 6.5 that is needed for proper operation, so there is no rush (i.e., if it ain't broken!).

When I can test under clear skies I will hopefully track down the problem with 6.5; however, I don't think this is the only issue. I have seen others post problems with some devices under 6.5, so I think it is best to wait a while before updating.

-Ray Gralak
Author of PEMPro
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver


-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Flores via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2020 11:17 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE

If ASCOM 6.5 has a problem why is it still on the website. Why not remove it until it is fixed?


Dale Ghent
 

On Sep 25, 2020, at 12:28 PM, W Hilmo <y.groups@...> wrote:

I switched to ASTAP for my plate solves with SGP and am seeing what is probably the same issue described in the first post of this thread.

In my case, when I do a modeling run in APPM, everything works great until it doesn't. What I see when watching the operation is that it will fail a plate solve, and once that happens, it will fail all subsequent plate solves. Once it's in that state, I notice that there is an instance of ASTAP running in the background. If I terminate that instance, then everything starts working again, even on the same APPM run. Since I've been using ASTAP, it has not failed a single plate solve outside of an APPM run, but it's failed in at least three APPM runs.
I'm not an APPM user having only the Standard edition of APCC, but I'm wondering if there needs to be some settle time in between the time the mount says the slew is complete and before APPM asks for another solve. From my experience working with ASTAP over the past 2 years, it's a bit more sensitive to elongated or smeared stars from the scope not being fully settled before the plate solve exposure is commenced. I don't have the APPM documentation handy; does it offer a post-slew settle time duration?

That said, there have been some recent improvements to ASTAP in the area of out-of-round star tolerance and you might want to grab the new version before trying again. Han updates it fairly regularly so it's worth bookmarking and checking in on ever few weeks or so. You can follow the changes in each version here:

http://www.hnsky.org/history_astap.htm

/dale


Worsel
 

FYI

I used astrometry.net for APPM plate-solves (via SGP).  If it fails, it is usually near my horizon limits, where there may be trees partially blocking the frame.  APPM moves on to the next location in the model and solves fine.  The overall model (PNT) is fine.

I use a local version of astrometry.net, which reduces solve times from minutes to seconds, since the solve is not competing with other submissions.  Also, if you happen to setup at a remote site with no Internet access, then a local install is the only feasible approach for any plate solver.


Bryan


Bill Long
 

Yes, you can tell APPM how long to wait for the mount to settle. Default I believe is 10 seconds, something like that.


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Dale Ghent <daleg@...>
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2020 10:14 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE
 


> On Sep 25, 2020, at 12:28 PM, W Hilmo <y.groups@...> wrote:
>
> I switched to ASTAP for my plate solves with SGP and am seeing what is probably the same issue described in the first post of this thread.
>
> In my case, when I do a modeling run in APPM, everything works great until it doesn't.  What I see when watching the operation is that it will fail a plate solve, and once that happens, it will fail all subsequent plate solves.  Once it's in that state, I notice that there is an instance of ASTAP running in the background.  If I terminate that instance, then everything starts working again, even on the same APPM run.  Since I've been using ASTAP, it has not failed a single plate solve outside of an APPM run, but it's failed in at least three APPM runs.

I'm not an APPM user having only the Standard edition of APCC, but I'm wondering if there needs to be some settle time in between the time the mount says the slew is complete and before APPM asks for another solve. From my experience working with ASTAP over the past 2 years, it's a bit more sensitive to elongated or smeared stars from the scope not being fully settled before the plate solve exposure is commenced. I don't have the APPM documentation handy; does it offer a post-slew settle time duration?

That said, there have been some recent improvements to ASTAP in the area of out-of-round star tolerance and you might want to grab the new version before trying again. Han updates it fairly regularly so it's worth bookmarking and checking in on ever few weeks or so. You can follow the changes in each version here:

https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hnsky.org%2Fhistory_astap.htm&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C15c205319a8f4373894d08d861766e87%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637366508566657337&amp;sdata=hiWMpFo%2BECoUlSIiDcxKEKhX2RHa536xvzjfVfPwX0s%3D&amp;reserved=0

/dale





Phillip Klein
 

Why would you ever include your personal life situation on this forum?
Really!!!


On Sep 25, 2020, at 10:15 AM, Worsel via groups.io <bryancashion@...> wrote:

FYI

I used astrometry.net for APPM plate-solves (via SGP).  If it fails, it is usually near my horizon limits, where there may be trees partially blocking the frame.  APPM moves on to the next location in the model and solves fine.  The overall model (PNT) is fine.

I use a local version of astrometry.net, which reduces solve times from minutes to seconds, since the solve is not competing with other submissions.  Also, if you happen to setup at a remote site with no Internet access, then a local install is the only feasible approach for any plate solver.


Bryan


CurtisC
 

I've probably missed a post.  What is ASTAP?


Bill Long
 

http://www.hnsky.org/astap.htm



From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of CurtisC via groups.io <calypte@...>
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2020 1:52 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE
 
I've probably missed a post.  What is ASTAP?


Worsel
 

On the APPM Measurement tab, there is a "Slew Settle Time".  The default is 3s.

Bryan


Ray Gralak
 

I switched to ASTAP for my plate solves with SGP and am seeing what is probably the same issue described in the
first post of this thread.
APPM doesn’t know which plate solver is in use when SGPro is used for plate solving. APPM operates the same way for all SGPro plate solvers because APPM uses the SGPro API for plate solving. Since PlateSolve2 doesn’t seem to show the same problem, it seems likely that the problem is with how SGPro handles ASTAP.

-Ray Gralak
Author of PEMPro
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of W Hilmo
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2020 9:29 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE

I switched to ASTAP for my plate solves with SGP and am seeing what is probably the same issue described in the
first post of this thread.