Hi all,
I signed up on the waiting list to purchase a 1100GTO just over a month ago. Not having an Astro-Physics mount before I joined this group and have been thrilled to see so many of you offer so much knowledge, thank you all!
I was just informed it will be another month and a half before I "might" be able to purchase the mount, so I thought it best to learn all I could prior to the mount's arrival which will hopefully be before May.
So, moving over to an AP mount from an iOptron CEM70 where would be the best place to learn not only how to use the mount, but the details on making the mount function to its potential?
I'm building an observatory in the backyard so the mount will be at a fixed location.
I currently use a William Optics 132mm but have a CFF 160 f/6.5 ordered, but it's still another 8 months from delivery.
I'm just starting to learn the basics of N.I.N.A. and hope to understand it well enough to use it as my main controller.
Those are the basics of what I'll be working with. I have been watching videos and reading everything I can find on the 1100GTO but I'd like to start at with the basics and build on that. So, as my youngest used to say, "where can I get edumacated?"  

Welcome.

If you haven't already found them, all of the manuals for the mount, the controller, the keypad (if you choose to purchase one), and the APCC software are available for you to download on the Astro-Physics site and read while you wait.
--
Dean Jacobsen
Astrobin Image Gallery - https://www.astrobin.com/users/deanjacobsen/

On Thu, Jan 19, 2023 at 11:28 AM, Newbee132 wrote:

So, moving over to an AP mount from an iOptron CEM70 where would be the best place to learn not only how to use the mount, but the details on making the mount function to its potential?

Interestingly a friend has a CEM70 and also is expecting one in February.  And I had a CEM70 some time ago. 

One thing I think that is always helpful is try to find a local club with someone who has one, maybe at a star party where they are putting it together and aligning.  It helps a lot to physically see it, see someone balance it, use the clutches vs gear switch, etc.  It's all in the manual, but I think it helps a lot.  Also helps a lot to prepare for how much physically larger it is going to be.

My other suggestion, if you are getting encoders (and this suggestion may get a lot of disagreement) is ignore them for the first month or few.  Leave them on -- they are going to properly correct for PE and Backlash, but just ignore the whole find-home and encoder based limits (which are separate from meridian and horizon limits, and in some ways redundant to; double check the AE tab and make sure the limits are off, the encoders are on).  The reason I say that is at first you are likely going to periodically use the clutches to move the axes (accidentally or on purpose) and every time you do, it messes up the home/encoder limits.  But the encoders do not need that at all for tracking corrections.

Use APCC, and for the first month or few ignore APPM and models. 

When you set up meridian flips at first, just have NINA stop 1 minute before, and resume 1 minute after meridian - later worry about extending limits to image through them, smart meridian flip plugin, etc. 

(Basically there is a lot to learn, and a lot of moderately complex stuff that does really cool things, but easier to incorporate after the basics work). 

Final suggestion and for some people the most important: switch most of your power to power poles (some you can't of course) and clean up any cheap hubs, poor quality USB cables, and the like. Your new mount deserves quality associated components, and it is a darn shame to chase "mount" issues that actually end up being an amazon clone hub or a too-low voltage power supply, 24 gauge cheap power cables that cause bad voltage drop... Not saying you have any of that, but it comes up a lot. 

Linwood

Hi Newbee132

Dittos on reading the manuals. All of them, even if you do not plan to get a keypad. After reading the manuals you may decide that it is a good investment.

The other thing you want to start studying now is how you are going to attach everything once you get your mount, and then how you are going to balance everything. This is where reading the manuals will help.

Cable management is a big factor, and there is a lot of discussion in the manuals about that.

I will relate some of my lessons learned over the 6 years that I have owned my 1100GTO (non-AE) mount.

• I started out using a piggyback arrangement with the primary scope and imaging camera on the bottom, and the guide scope and camera on top. I was having some issues with elongated stars in my images that I thought might have been due to flexure, so I decided to switch to a side-by-side arrangement. What I learned from this was that if I followed Roland's side-by-side balancing technique (with a few modifications) I was able to get a much more precise balancing. The downside is that side-by-side balancing requires more hardware (side-by-side & dovetail base plates). I have attached a copy of Roland's original procedure.
• If you have a non-AE mount, and if you are going to set up and take down tour mount every night, I highly recommend getting a long version of the Y-Cable that runs from the CP4 to the RA and Dec motors. I started out with the shorter version that has to be routed up through the inside of the mount, but this increased the setup time because you have to remove the counterweight shaft adapter to install and remove the Dec axis cable. The longer Y-cable allows you to route the motor cables on the outside of the mount. This saves setup time, and significantly reduces the risk of forgetting to remove the cables before you remove the Dec axis.
• I highly recommend the RAPAS. You should install all of the gear before polar aligning, so the best way to do this and still allow you to use the RAPAS is to attach everything with the mount in Park 2. It is easier to install, and the eyepiece of the RAPAS will be accessible so that you can polar align. Make sure that you remove it before after you polar align and before you make any slews. With some of the shorter scope / camera combinations, you can collide with the RAPAS.
• Pay attention to the cables, especially if you route then outside the mount. I tie mine off on the rear of the main scope OTA so that there will be no stress on the connections. Watch out for the clutch lock knobs. I had the power cable to one of my cameras get caught between the clutch knob and body of the mount. The mount RA motor did quite a lot of damage to the cable before it finally stalled.
• Another cable suggestion is to bundle them together. It makes managing them and keeping track of them during slews much easier. I actually have two cable bundles; one for the power cables, and another for the communication cables.

Since you are not new to the hobby you probably know most of this already, but it is worth going through the basics all over when you get a new mount.

Mike

Thank you all for the information. I really like all the suggestions and will be following the advice of each.
I am a member of the local astronomy group (NOVAC) and will go have a look-see at the AP mounts they're using, and I'll ask about any details they care to share.
Thank you all. I'm still in awe at all the information that's passed daily through this group and look forward to absobing what I can before my 1100 arrives.
Thank you,
Larry

Hello Newbee132,

I am in similar situation like you. I just got my AP1100 and did my first session yesterday. Coming from CEM70, it is an overwhelming experience. There is lot to learn. 

To the experts here, Is there a documentation where I can read how to do meridian flip with NINA and APCC? In my session, I noticed my scope did not flip. Even after moving the mount back to Park and then back to target, there was no flip.. 

Thanks,
Kanwar

On Tue, Jan 24, 2023 at 12:28 PM, Kanwar wrote:

To the experts here, Is there a documentation where I can read how to do meridian flip with NINA and APCC? In my session, I noticed my scope did not flip. Even after moving the mount back to Park and then back to target, there was no flip.. 

Emillio gave a good pointer, and there are some good terminology pointers here with drawings

https://nighttime-imaging.eu/docs/master/site/advanced/meridianflip/

But I want to throw in a recommendation that flies a bit in the face of many of the instructions.

Most instructions show you how to do an efficient meridian flip, and may include the ability to put in delays at certain DEC angles to prevent collisions.  Both of these issues add significant complexity primarily to the APCC setup side of things, but also to NINA. 

I generally recommend that if struggling, or the first time, ignore efficiency.  Set up NINA so that the "Pause before" is a couple of minutes instead of zero, and do the same for the pause after (both can be set the same, say 2 min).  What this does is prevent the mount from going counterweight up at all.  It wastes the time of about 1-2 exposures while it waits then for meridian passage, but it takes most mount slew/tracking limits out of the picture, and requires almost no coordination of those settings.  It also avoids (if you use them) typical RA AE limits that might interfere. 

Basically the mount tracks up near but not to the meridian and NINA stops it.  NINA then just sits there and waits for the target to be on the other side, and sends a slew which causes a flip. 

The "efficient" ways allow the mount to track through the meridian for at least one (maybe more) images, then flip. Negligible lost time.  This requires the mount limits to permit tracking across the meridian to a counterweight up position without stopping, warning, etc.  This is possible and I use it and it works great.  But the UI for APCC for setting all this up is... well, more of a challenge than just setting "at meridian".  So if you are a "walk then run" type, consider trying the simple approach first. 

Now, if you need settings to prevent counterweight down pier collisions, that's a different story, and requires more complicated setup always. 

Also note that with something like Stellarium and some time in daylight all this can be debugged indoors.  Just set up a sequence with a target that (if you could see it) is 20 minutes or so from meridian, bring it into a sequence and use the simulator (or real camera shooting nothing) to run the sequence and see what happens.  Take out options that require plate solving or autofocus, and you can run and rerun that as much as you like while not wasting real imaging time.

Linwood

On 1/24/2023 11:21 AM, Newbee132 wrote:

Larry, I tried to send you an email off-list, but it bounced. Will you please contact me at mike@...?

---
Mike

Mike Dodd
Louisa County, Virginia USA
http://astronomy.mdodd.com

Thanks for sharing the link Emillio. This will be helpful.

Linwood, really appreciate the explanation. I was successfully doing meridian flips with NINA and CEM70. But same settings on NINA did not work with AP mount. I think I will need to look at link provided by Emillio or read the APCC documentation.