AP 900 GTO CP2 Pempro


Emilio J. Robau, P.E.
 
Edited

Hello Everyone,
I need a little help.  Not sure whether to post it here or on Pempro site.  The issue overlaps.  As you may know due to prior postings, I purchased an AP 900.   The good news is that last night I confirmed a peak to trough PE of 3.1 arc sec.  That alone is very satisfying.  However, I am having some issues with programming the PE for PEM utilizing pempro.  I have the latest version of pempro.  I am using the latest ASCOM driver for the scope.  Here is what is happening.

When I connect to PEMPRO the status of the PEM off or PEM on is not listed.   It is like Pempro can't tell if the mount has PEM off or on.  Furthermore, I determined that if you turned PEM on in PEMPRO it actually does something to the mount, either it triggers no tracking or it tracks faster.  Not sure, but basically if PEM is turned on by Pempro the stars trail.  If PEM is turned off in Pempro the tracking is good.   Anyone have an idea of what is going on?

In addition, the toggle for PEM on PEMPRO does not change the status on the AP driver.  IF you toggle PEM on the status of the AP driver does not change.  In addition, I have been able to confirm that the toggle for the PEM on the AP driver works and if you turn PEM on via the driver, it sticks and the mount tracks well.  When you turn it off from the AP driver the setting registers and the mount tracks well.  Only the toggle in Pempro seems to stop the mount or accelerate it so the stars trail.

Finally I am having a heck of a time getting Pempro to actually secure a star.  It takes the image, but the image comes up blank and it can't find a star.   A potentially related question is as follows. Do I have to run the initialization procedure in Pempro if I already did it before and did not change the orientation of anything?  I thought maybe that was the issue.

Finally squared, I have the use the ASCOM drive toggled in Pempro in the telescope settings, is this correct?

Finally cubed, My mount has chip E (I think) but Pempro has the 900 with version D and version G and beyond.  There is no E chip choice in the settings for the AP 900.  Does anyone know what version I have?  What do I set that to?  The mount is SN 239, and the controller is CP2.

Thanks in advance for any help. 

This is driving me nuts, because I think if I record the PE, I could get down to around 1 or less PEC.  Once I do that then I am ready to start imaging.


Chris White
 

I'm not able to advise on your questions, but I can provide a teaser.  With my 900 I have 3.6" peak to peak error before pempro. After, I measured several worm cycles and it was down to 0.2"!  


Emilio J. Robau, P.E.
 

Thanks Chris,

I need to retract the CP2 related questions.  However, I still think I have an issue with the ZWO 183's performance with Pempro.  I can't seem to get a good star consistently and the screen is blank so I think I have a download problem.   I have been able to find a CP3 unit and it is on the way so the CP2 questions are no longer relevant, except maybe that they are a curiosity.  I see the same results in my future.   My PE on this 20 year old mount measured twice is about 3.1" to 3.2".  I ran a very long session the night before last in light wind conditions and the answer was 3.1.  So I am pretty sure that I will achieve the same result.  I already may have it since I was able to do a partial run  with the PEM on via the driver and after one full cycle I was also down to almost a non detectable PE.
Ultimately I am going to circle back on your tilt threads and see what I can do with my Tak.  Thanks for posting them.


Steven Panish
 

Sounds like your firmware on the CP2 was ancient.  When you get the CP3, check it and update to the latest if it is old.  Not sure if the newer ASCOM versions will work with ancient firmware, I doubt they will play well.

Steve

On Sat, Feb 5, 2022 at 11:33 AM Emilio J. Robau, P.E. <ejr@...> wrote:
Thanks Chris,

I need to retract the CP2 related questions.  However, I still think I have an issue with the ZWO 183's performance with Pempro.  I can't seem to get a good star consistently and the screen is blank so I think I have a download problem.   I have been able to find a CP3 unit and it is on the way so the CP2 questions are no longer relevant, except maybe that they are a curiosity.  I see the same results in my future.   My PE on this 20 year old mount measured twice is about 3.1" to 3.2".  I ran a very long session the night before last in light wind conditions and the answer was 3.1.  So I am pretty sure that I will achieve the same result.  I already may have it since I was able to do a partial run  with the PEM on via the driver and after one full cycle I was also down to almost a non detectable PE.
Ultimately I am going to circle back on your tilt threads and see what I can do with my Tak.  Thanks for posting them.



--
Heads up: Virginia and I will be getting new email addresses - likely gmail addresses - in the near future due to changes in the Google fee structure for hosting domains.  This may not go smoothly, so if we seem unresponsive you may need to call us rather than using email.


Emilio J. Robau, P.E.
 

You are likely correct Steven.  I am still very appreciative of the seller.  He is a visual observer so he really does not need what I need.  CP3 arrives on Tuesday, so I will be able to get that hooked up.  That will hold me for a while.  My USB to serial connection seems to be good and stable.


Christopher Erickson
 

Just FYI, whatever PEM data that might be stored in the CP3 when it gets to you will need to be erased and new PEM data set built. Until you do that, disable PEM in the CP3. If you don't it will likely make the tracking accuracy of your 900 look terrible.

-Christopher Erickson
Observatory engineer
Waikoloa, HI 96738
www.summitkinetics.com
   

On Sat, Feb 5, 2022, 11:09 AM Emilio J. Robau, P.E. <ejr@...> wrote:
You are likely correct Steven.  I am still very appreciative of the seller.  He is a visual observer so he really does not need what I need.  CP3 arrives on Tuesday, so I will be able to get that hooked up.  That will hold me for a while.  My USB to serial connection seems to be good and stable.


Christopher Erickson
 

Also, once the CP3 is connected to the 900 and the RA axis is moved, it will move the 900 RA worm drive out of sync with your CP2 PEM data as well.

-Christopher Erickson
Observatory engineer
Waikoloa, HI 96738
www.summitkinetics.com
   

On Sat, Feb 5, 2022, 11:40 AM Christopher Erickson via groups.io <christopher.k.erickson=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Just FYI, whatever PEM data that might be stored in the CP3 when it gets to you will need to be erased and new PEM data set built. Until you do that, disable PEM in the CP3. If you don't it will likely make the tracking accuracy of your 900 look terrible.

-Christopher Erickson
Observatory engineer
Waikoloa, HI 96738
www.summitkinetics.com
   

On Sat, Feb 5, 2022, 11:09 AM Emilio J. Robau, P.E. <ejr@...> wrote:
You are likely correct Steven.  I am still very appreciative of the seller.  He is a visual observer so he really does not need what I need.  CP3 arrives on Tuesday, so I will be able to get that hooked up.  That will hold me for a while.  My USB to serial connection seems to be good and stable.


Ray Gralak
 

Hi Emilio,

I think answered your post on the CCDWare forum, but you had some other questions below, like:

When I connect to PEMPRO the status of the PEM off or PEM on is not listed. Futhermore I determined that
if you turned PEM on it actually does something to the mount, either it triggers no tracking or it tracks faster.
Not sure, but basically if PEM is turned on the stars trail. If PEM is turned off the tracking is good. Anyone
have an idea of what is going on?
The early versions of the firmware do not have a command to ask for PEM status, like version "E" that you are using in your CP2. Also, if stars trail with PEM enabled, the PEC curve in the mount is probably corrupted or poorly programmed. You can clear it by recording PEM for about 6.5 minutes without giving the mount any autoguider commands.

In addition, the toggle for PEM on PEMPRO does not change the status on the AP driver.
Again, that's because there is no way for the driver to poll the PEM status in that early version of firmware.

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Emilio J. Robau, P.E.
Sent: Friday, February 4, 2022 9:03 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: [ap-gto] AP 900 GTO CP2 Pempro

Hello Everyone,
I need a little help. Not sure whether to post it here or on Pempro site. The issue overlaps. As you may know
due to prior postings, I purchased an AP 900. The good news is that last night I confirmed a peak to trough
PE of 3.1 arc sec. That alone is very satisfying. However, I am having some issues with programming the PE
for PEM utilizing pempro. I have the latest version of pempro. I am using the latest ASCOM driver for the
scope. Here is what is happening.

When I connect to PEMPRO the status of the PEM off or PEM on is not listed. Futhermore I determined that
if you turned PEM on it actually does something to the mount, either it triggers no tracking or it tracks faster.
Not sure, but basically if PEM is turned on the stars trail. If PEM is turned off the tracking is good. Anyone
have an idea of what is going on?

In addition, the toggle for PEM on PEMPRO does not change the status on the AP driver. I have been able to
confirm that the toggle for the PEM on the driver works and if you turn PEM on it sticks and the mount tracks
well. When you turn it off on the driver it sticks and the mount tracks well. Only the toggle in Pempro seems
to stop the mount or accelerate it so the stars trail.

Finally I am having a heck of a time getting PEMPRO to actually secure a star. A related question is as
follows. Do I have to run the initialization procedure if I already did it before and did not change the orientation
of anything?

Finally squared, I have the use the ASCOM drive toggled in Pempro, is this correct.

Finally cubed, My mount has chip E (i think) but Pempro has the 900 with version D and version G and
beyond. Does anyone know what version I have? the mount is SN 239, and the controller is CP2.

Thanks in advance for any help. This is driving me nuts, because I think if I record the PE, I could get down to
around 1 or less PEC.


Emilio J. Robau, P.E.
 

Thanks Ray for the answers.   I am jumping ship and going to the CP3.  I have experience with that and APCC.  
Thanks Chris, yes, I was going to completely write over everything on the CP3 unit as soon as it arrives and I can connect.

Appreciate your guidance guys.


Emilio J. Robau, P.E.
 

I obtained my used CP3, installed it, ran a new PE Curve, obtained 3.16 native PE.  Fed the mount CP3 box a new PE curve that was not inverted, and PE was reduced to 1.5 arc sec.   So, I will stick with the non inverted curve.  I bet it is actually lower because I only had two worm cycles to analyze since the clouds moved in.   Thereafter I installed APCC on my laptop for mobile telescope setup, connected, set up an observation location and am one happy camper.  NINA working well with the setup.

The only issue I had was locating a suitable star on Pempro.  Something weird is going on because in order to cure the issue, I had to disconnect the camera, reset the download speed to a HIGER value, and then reconnect and everything was fine for the couple of runs I ran on that PE curve.   Don't know what is going on except that maybe my particular ZWO 183M is finicky while attached to Pempro.

Happy Camping and Clear Skies 


Christopher Erickson
 

And check and make sure your CP3 has the latest chip inside.


-Christopher Erickson
Observatory engineer
Waikoloa, HI 96738
www.summitkinetics.com
   

On Tue, Feb 8, 2022, 7:35 AM Emilio J. Robau, P.E. <ejr@...> wrote:

I obtained my used CP3, installed it, ran a new PE Curve, obtained 3.16 native PE.  Fed the mount CP3 box a new PE curve that was not inverted, and PE was reduced to 1.5 arc sec.   So, I will stick with the non inverted curve.  I bet it is actually lower because I only had two worm cycles to analyze since the clouds moved in.   Thereafter I installed APCC on my laptop for mobile telescope setup, connected, set up an observation location and am one happy camper.  NINA working well with the setup.

The only issue I had was locating a suitable star on Pempro.  Something weird is going on because in order to cure the issue, I had to disconnect the camera, reset the download speed to a HIGER value, and then reconnect and everything was fine for the couple of runs I ran on that PE curve.   Don't know what is going on except that maybe my particular ZWO 183M is finicky while attached to Pempro.

Happy Camping and Clear Skies 


Emilio J. Robau, P.E.
 

I did driver and APCC is saying I have the V2 chip.  I bet the PE is actually lower.   Unfortunately clouds moved in.  I was able to capture seven work cycles for the native PE.


Howard Hedlund
 

Hi Emilio,  Please call our office to let them know the serial number of the GTOCP3 for our records.  V2 is the latest chipp for the GTOCP3.  Call me at the direct number below if you have questions.

 

Mag. 7 or Better Skies!

 

Howard Hedlund

Astro-Physics, Inc.

AP Phone: 815-282-1513

Direct Phone:  815-315-7015

www.astro-physics.com

Please include this e-mail with your response.

 

P Consider the environment before printing this e-mail.

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Emilio J. Robau, P.E.
Sent: Tuesday, February 8, 2022 11:52
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] AP 900 GTO CP2 Pempro

 

I did driver and APCC is saying I have the V2 chip.  I bet the PE is actually lower.   Unfortunately clouds moved in.  I was able to capture seven work cycles for the native PE.


Emilio J. Robau, P.E.
 

Will do Howard.  I need to register the mount and the CP3 box, and will take down the SN when I come home tonight.  Very satisfied with my new 20 year old mount so far.


fernandorivera3
 

If you are using your mount for imaging & already got APCC why not get the CP4 box instead??

Fernando


Emilio J. Robau, P.E.
 

Because I am habitually cheap, had the CP3 on my 1600 before I upgraded that to a CP4, and I think I can get by with the CP3 for a while. Furthermore, I am looking to purchase a Zambuto mirror for my first ATM build, and am on the list for a 1100, Mach 2, and AP 130GTX.  Finally I just received a Stowaway.  I can live with the CP3 for a while.  


Jeffc
 



On Feb 9, 2022, at 5:25 PM, Emilio J. Robau, P.E. <ejr@...> wrote:

Because I am habitually cheap, had the CP3 on my 1600 before I upgraded that to a CP4, and I think I can get by with the CP3 for a while. Furthermore, I am looking to purchase a Zambuto mirror for my first ATM build, and am on the list for a 1100, Mach 2, and AP 130GTX.  Finally I just received a Stowaway.  I can live with the CP3 for a while.  
_._,_._,_

Also… fwiw.. CP4 is not available.  

I’m looking at upgrading a couple non-V2 CP3s, but after using a CP5 for a while, I do see some advantages of upgrading the CP3 to CP4 (for me)… e.g. built in USB, ethernet, upgradability, and perhaps performance.   
So… I just yesterday ordered V2 chips for the CP3s.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
(In retrospect I should have updated to CP4 a couple years back.  I’m sorta in the same boat.)

-Jeff




Emilio J. Robau, P.E.
 

Jeff,

That is right.  I am not cheap.  I just can't get one.  None are available.  That is a better answer.