APPM - error


Ray Gralak
 

Hi Ted,

I am glad that APPM and APCC Pro are working well for you!

Is this particular 95-point model only applicable for this equipment, image scale and imaging season?
In general, yes. However, if polar alignment changes enough because of ground settling, or if you change equipment balance significantly, then the model may not work as well.

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ted Mickle via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2021 2:52 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM - error

Ray,

I ran my first-ever APPM model three nights back, a 95 point model.

Since then, using APPM I’ve run hours of 900 second narrowband imaging unguided and marvel at the small
round stars, even in regions of the sky that were not included in the original model (created with a Tak 130,
1100 GTO and QHY 600M).

Is this particular 95-point model only applicable for this equipment, image scale and imaging season?

Thanks for APPM - it’s transformed my astroimaging.

Ted




On Sep 19, 2021, at 13:16, Ray Gralak <iogroups@siriusimaging.com> wrote:

HI Ron,

Now what does "verify" check box do?
It runs the same steps to collect sky data points but with the active model for the purpose of diagnosing
pointing or tracking problems.

and how often should I make a new model?
We might ask you to run this if you have a dramatic pointing or tracking problem with a model, which
doesn't appear to be the case. You are better off using this time for imaging!

-Ray


-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ron Kramer
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2021 10:38 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM - error

thanks for the assists Ray - and thanks for the nina compatible updates.
Now what does "verify" check box do?
and how often should I make a new model?
I did a 300, 600 and 1000 second exposure after the APPM model was applied and I had round stars with
no
guiding even at 1000.
And at a good HFR of 3.48 (average is often higher even when guiding).
My max before the model was about 60-90 seconds and I'd still see eggs.


On Sun, Sep 19, 2021 at 12:24 PM Ray Gralak <iogroups@siriusimaging.com> wrote:


Hi Ron,

> Results were well worth it. BEFORE the point model I would get oblong stars if I went over 60-90
second
> exposures. Last night I did 1000 second exposure and had round stars. It blew me away.

That's excellent! I'm glad you got everything working! :-)

Best regards,

-Ray

> -----Original Message-----
> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ron Kramer
> Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2021 6:03 AM
> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM - error
>
> MAYBE that was the fix. I had great results last night. The pop up error never appeared. And one of
the
> solutions I tried was to update ASTAP. I was using the latest but I went back and noticed there is a
dev
> release that is newer and I had installed that.
>
> I made other changes to settings. I went full frame, and bin2 and I sed a APPM setting from default
to 0.
> Something or everything made it work... but could be it was using the dev release of ASTAP that
fixed it.
>
> Results were well worth it. BEFORE the point model I would get oblong stars if I went over 60-90
second
> exposures. Last night I did 1000 second exposure and had round stars. It blew me away.
>
>
>
>










--

Ron Kramer
https://www.facebook.com/Ron.R.Kramer







Ted Mickle
 

Ray,

I ran my first-ever APPM model three nights back, a 95 point model.

Since then, using APPM I’ve run hours of 900 second narrowband imaging unguided and marvel at the small round stars, even in regions of the sky that were not included in the original model (created with a Tak 130, 1100 GTO and QHY 600M).

Is this particular 95-point model only applicable for this equipment, image scale and imaging season?

Thanks for APPM - it’s transformed my astroimaging.

Ted

On Sep 19, 2021, at 13:16, Ray Gralak <iogroups@siriusimaging.com> wrote:

HI Ron,

Now what does "verify" check box do?
It runs the same steps to collect sky data points but with the active model for the purpose of diagnosing pointing or tracking problems.

and how often should I make a new model?
We might ask you to run this if you have a dramatic pointing or tracking problem with a model, which doesn't appear to be the case. You are better off using this time for imaging!

-Ray


-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ron Kramer
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2021 10:38 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM - error

thanks for the assists Ray - and thanks for the nina compatible updates.
Now what does "verify" check box do?
and how often should I make a new model?
I did a 300, 600 and 1000 second exposure after the APPM model was applied and I had round stars with no
guiding even at 1000.
And at a good HFR of 3.48 (average is often higher even when guiding).
My max before the model was about 60-90 seconds and I'd still see eggs.


On Sun, Sep 19, 2021 at 12:24 PM Ray Gralak <iogroups@siriusimaging.com> wrote:


Hi Ron,

> Results were well worth it. BEFORE the point model I would get oblong stars if I went over 60-90
second
> exposures. Last night I did 1000 second exposure and had round stars. It blew me away.

That's excellent! I'm glad you got everything working! :-)

Best regards,

-Ray

> -----Original Message-----
> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ron Kramer
> Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2021 6:03 AM
> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM - error
>
> MAYBE that was the fix. I had great results last night. The pop up error never appeared. And one of
the
> solutions I tried was to update ASTAP. I was using the latest but I went back and noticed there is a
dev
> release that is newer and I had installed that.
>
> I made other changes to settings. I went full frame, and bin2 and I sed a APPM setting from default
to 0.
> Something or everything made it work... but could be it was using the dev release of ASTAP that
fixed it.
>
> Results were well worth it. BEFORE the point model I would get oblong stars if I went over 60-90
second
> exposures. Last night I did 1000 second exposure and had round stars. It blew me away.
>
>
>
>










--

Ron Kramer
https://www.facebook.com/Ron.R.Kramer






Ray Gralak
 

HI Ron,

Now what does "verify" check box do?
It runs the same steps to collect sky data points but with the active model for the purpose of diagnosing pointing or tracking problems.

and how often should I make a new model?
We might ask you to run this if you have a dramatic pointing or tracking problem with a model, which doesn't appear to be the case. You are better off using this time for imaging!

-Ray


-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ron Kramer
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2021 10:38 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM - error

thanks for the assists Ray - and thanks for the nina compatible updates.
Now what does "verify" check box do?
and how often should I make a new model?
I did a 300, 600 and 1000 second exposure after the APPM model was applied and I had round stars with no
guiding even at 1000.
And at a good HFR of 3.48 (average is often higher even when guiding).
My max before the model was about 60-90 seconds and I'd still see eggs.


On Sun, Sep 19, 2021 at 12:24 PM Ray Gralak <iogroups@siriusimaging.com> wrote:


Hi Ron,

> Results were well worth it. BEFORE the point model I would get oblong stars if I went over 60-90
second
> exposures. Last night I did 1000 second exposure and had round stars. It blew me away.

That's excellent! I'm glad you got everything working! :-)

Best regards,

-Ray

> -----Original Message-----
> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ron Kramer
> Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2021 6:03 AM
> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM - error
>
> MAYBE that was the fix. I had great results last night. The pop up error never appeared. And one of
the
> solutions I tried was to update ASTAP. I was using the latest but I went back and noticed there is a
dev
> release that is newer and I had installed that.
>
> I made other changes to settings. I went full frame, and bin2 and I sed a APPM setting from default
to 0.
> Something or everything made it work... but could be it was using the dev release of ASTAP that
fixed it.
>
> Results were well worth it. BEFORE the point model I would get oblong stars if I went over 60-90
second
> exposures. Last night I did 1000 second exposure and had round stars. It blew me away.
>
>
>
>










--

Ron Kramer
https://www.facebook.com/Ron.R.Kramer


Ron Kramer
 

thanks for the assists Ray - and thanks for the nina compatible updates. 
Now what does "verify" check box do?
and how often should I make a new model? 
I did a 300, 600 and 1000 second exposure after the APPM model was applied and I had round stars with no guiding even at 1000. 
And at a good HFR of 3.48  (average is often higher even when guiding).
My max before the model was about 60-90 seconds and I'd still see eggs.


On Sun, Sep 19, 2021 at 12:24 PM Ray Gralak <iogroups@...> wrote:
Hi Ron,

> Results were well worth it.  BEFORE the point model I would get oblong stars if I went over 60-90 second
> exposures.  Last night I did 1000 second exposure and had round stars.  It blew me away.

That's excellent! I'm glad you got everything working! :-)

Best regards,

-Ray

> -----Original Message-----
> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ron Kramer
> Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2021 6:03 AM
> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM - error
>
> MAYBE that was the fix.  I had great results last night. The pop up error never appeared.  And one of the
> solutions I tried was to update ASTAP. I was using the latest but I went back and noticed there is a dev
> release that is newer and I had installed that.
>
> I made other changes to settings.  I went full frame, and bin2 and I sed a APPM setting from default to 0.
> Something or everything made it work... but could be it was using the dev release of ASTAP that fixed it.
>
> Results were well worth it.  BEFORE the point model I would get oblong stars if I went over 60-90 second
> exposures.  Last night I did 1000 second exposure and had round stars.  It blew me away.
>
>
>
>









Ray Gralak
 

Hi Ron,

Results were well worth it. BEFORE the point model I would get oblong stars if I went over 60-90 second
exposures. Last night I did 1000 second exposure and had round stars. It blew me away.
That's excellent! I'm glad you got everything working! :-)

Best regards,

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ron Kramer
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2021 6:03 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM - error

MAYBE that was the fix. I had great results last night. The pop up error never appeared. And one of the
solutions I tried was to update ASTAP. I was using the latest but I went back and noticed there is a dev
release that is newer and I had installed that.

I made other changes to settings. I went full frame, and bin2 and I sed a APPM setting from default to 0.
Something or everything made it work... but could be it was using the dev release of ASTAP that fixed it.

Results were well worth it. BEFORE the point model I would get oblong stars if I went over 60-90 second
exposures. Last night I did 1000 second exposure and had round stars. It blew me away.




Ron Kramer
 

Thanks Dale.  I made several tweaks including your full-frame, bin2 and its working great.  THANK YOU!

I always had to guide at over 60-90 second exposures.  After APPM last night I did 300 sec, then 500, then 800 then 1000 second exposures and all had excellent stars and low HFR.  I'm amazed. 

only problem was APPM sometimes didn't want for the dome to slew/settle. (about 10% of the time).  But with the scope 1/2 way in the slit it was still able to get enough stars to solve. 

 


Ron Kramer
 

MAYBE that was the fix.  I had great results last night. The pop up error never appeared.  And one of the solutions I tried was to update ASTAP. I was using the latest but I went back and noticed there is a dev release that is newer and I had installed that.

I made other changes to settings.  I went full frame, and bin2 and I sed a APPM setting from default to 0.  Something or everything made it work... but could be it was using the dev release of ASTAP that fixed it. 

Results were well worth it.  BEFORE the point model I would get oblong stars if I went over 60-90 second exposures.  Last night I did 1000 second exposure and had round stars.  It blew me away. 

 


Ron Kramer
 

I got it working, not SURE what I did - other than I went full frame and Bin2 for ASTAP.  It's about 3/4 through the model as I type this. 

I do have some minor issues with APPM not waiting quite long enough for the dome to slew and settle.  9 out of 10 times it does but sometimes it's hasty and the dome is 1/3 over the scope.  Luckily I picked up enough stars to still solve when this happens. 

 


Dale Ghent
 

It's not entirely clear what your full APPM configuration is, but here's what you should generally have:

1. Make sure your local copy of ASTAP is updated
2. In NINA, make sure Enable Server is On
3. In APPM, set Camera to NINA
4. In APPM, review the exposure settings. I run my QHY600 with bin2, full frame.
5. The only difference between the default ASTAP settings in APPM is that I limit to 500 stars instead of the default of 1000.

On Sep 16, 2021, at 21:42, Ron Kramer <ronkramer1957@gmail.com> wrote:

WORKED on it all night - giving up. I couldn't get APPM to work with ASTAP. Oddly - another solver in APPM setup is "SGP"? That's now a solver that's a program like NINA setup with a solver. Why can't I select NINA (setup to solve with ASTAP?) As that works perfectly. I've never had it not solve until I tried solving through APPM with the 106.00 update I bought. = (


On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 6:55 PM Ron Kramer via groups.io <ronkramer1957=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
SEtup but still light out. I clicked this test button. I loaded a APPM pic from last night and it loaded and solved under 3 seconds.

All I changed was bin from 1 to 2. I'll try live tonight and update with my results.
<APPM capture57.png>





--
Ron Kramer
https://www.facebook.com/Ron.R.Kramer


Brent Boshart
 
Edited

Assuming you are using NINA for the image capture, do you have the telescope information entered in NINA (Under Options - Equipment)?  Maybe ASTAP needs the focal length in the FITS header for the way in which APPM calls it?


ap@CaptivePhotons.com
 

So are you using APPM to control the camera?  It sounds like that may be a difference.  I only use NINA to control the camera, could not get APPM to work well (camera is too large I think, or ZWO’s driver handles memory poorly, or both).  NINA being 64 bit works.

 

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sergei via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2021 10:14 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM - error

 

Linwood, Dean, Brian - thank you for sharing. It could well be something in my settings. Just odd that failures on invocation from APPM seem to happen much faster than from SGP where it tends to run a lot longer before (much less frequently) failing to solve. The fact that SGP is also used from APPM as the camera capture interface, thus with the same settings, etc. confounds further. 


Ray’s guess that plate solving failures involved ASTAP in an earlier reply made me think there’s some quirkiness to the APPM/ASTAP combo.

Thanks again,

Sergei


Ray Gralak
 

APPM gives you full control over ASTAP's settings, You can thus misconfigure settings. If you see lots of failures, send the failed images to astap's author. He's the best person to explain why a solve failed.

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sergei
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2021 7:14 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM - error

Linwood, Dean, Brian - thank you for sharing. It could well be something in my settings. Just odd that failures
on invocation from APPM seem to happen much faster than from SGP where it tends to run a lot longer
before (much less frequently) failing to solve. The fact that SGP is also used from APPM as the camera
capture interface, thus with the same settings, etc. confounds further.


Ray’s guess that plate solving failures involved ASTAP in an earlier reply made me think there’s some
quirkiness to the APPM/ASTAP combo.

Thanks again,

Sergei


Sergei
 

Linwood, Dean, Brian - thank you for sharing. It could well be something in my settings. Just odd that failures on invocation from APPM seem to happen much faster than from SGP where it tends to run a lot longer before (much less frequently) failing to solve. The fact that SGP is also used from APPM as the camera capture interface, thus with the same settings, etc. confounds further. 


Ray’s guess that plate solving failures involved ASTAP in an earlier reply made me think there’s some quirkiness to the APPM/ASTAP combo.

Thanks again,

Sergei


Bill Long
 

Have you tried updating ASTAP to the latest version? 


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <iogroups@...>
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2021 6:57 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM - error
 
> WORKED on it all night - giving up.  I couldn't get  APPM to work with ASTAP.   Oddly - another solver in
> APPM setup is  "SGP"?  That's now a solver that's a program like NINA setup with a solver.  Why can't I select
> NINA (setup to solve with ASTAP?) As that works perfectly.  I've never had it not solve until I tried solving
> through APPM with the 106.00 update I bought. = (

NINA does not expose an interface for external applications like APPM to invoke its plate solver.

So have you looked at the failed images to see what they look like?

APPM just runs the ASTAP application via the command line. APPM allows you to set any and all of ASTAP's command line parameters, so you may need to adjust them for your FITS images, especially if the images are huge. ASTAP could be running out of memory. For support for ASTAP crashing you must contact the author, just like you would if PinPoint, SkyX, or PlateSolve2 in SGPro had crashed.

-Ray

> -----Original Message-----
> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ron Kramer
> Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2021 6:42 PM
> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM - error
>
> WORKED on it all night - giving up.  I couldn't get  APPM to work with ASTAP.   Oddly - another solver in
> APPM setup is  "SGP"?  That's now a solver that's a program like NINA setup with a solver.  Why can't I select
> NINA (setup to solve with ASTAP?) As that works perfectly.  I've never had it not solve until I tried solving
> through APPM with the 106.00 update I bought. = (
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 6:55 PM Ron Kramer via groups.io <ronkramer1957@...> wrote:
>
>
>        SEtup but still light out.  I clicked this test button.  I loaded a APPM pic from last night and it loaded
> and solved under 3 seconds.
>
>        All I changed was bin from 1 to 2.  I'll try live tonight and update with my results.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Ron Kramer
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2FRon.R.Kramer&amp;data=04%7C01%7C%7C53d39aed1ab84ca9044708d9797e8c2f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637674406683740061%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=DY11pvEVJiQ6U%2FVikoWePmdg%2Ft6fAtskV3FcRea6198%3D&amp;reserved=0
>
>







Ray Gralak
 

WORKED on it all night - giving up. I couldn't get APPM to work with ASTAP. Oddly - another solver in
APPM setup is "SGP"? That's now a solver that's a program like NINA setup with a solver. Why can't I select
NINA (setup to solve with ASTAP?) As that works perfectly. I've never had it not solve until I tried solving
through APPM with the 106.00 update I bought. = (
NINA does not expose an interface for external applications like APPM to invoke its plate solver.

So have you looked at the failed images to see what they look like?

APPM just runs the ASTAP application via the command line. APPM allows you to set any and all of ASTAP's command line parameters, so you may need to adjust them for your FITS images, especially if the images are huge. ASTAP could be running out of memory. For support for ASTAP crashing you must contact the author, just like you would if PinPoint, SkyX, or PlateSolve2 in SGPro had crashed.

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ron Kramer
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2021 6:42 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM - error

WORKED on it all night - giving up. I couldn't get APPM to work with ASTAP. Oddly - another solver in
APPM setup is "SGP"? That's now a solver that's a program like NINA setup with a solver. Why can't I select
NINA (setup to solve with ASTAP?) As that works perfectly. I've never had it not solve until I tried solving
through APPM with the 106.00 update I bought. = (


On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 6:55 PM Ron Kramer via groups.io <ronkramer1957=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:


SEtup but still light out. I clicked this test button. I loaded a APPM pic from last night and it loaded
and solved under 3 seconds.

All I changed was bin from 1 to 2. I'll try live tonight and update with my results.








--

Ron Kramer
https://www.facebook.com/Ron.R.Kramer


Ron Kramer
 

WORKED on it all night - giving up.  I couldn't get  APPM to work with ASTAP.   Oddly - another solver in APPM setup is  "SGP"?  That's now a solver that's a program like NINA setup with a solver.  Why can't I select NINA (setup to solve with ASTAP?) As that works perfectly.  I've never had it not solve until I tried solving through APPM with the 106.00 update I bought. = (


On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 6:55 PM Ron Kramer via groups.io <ronkramer1957=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

SEtup but still light out.  I clicked this test button.  I loaded a APPM pic from last night and it loaded and solved under 3 seconds.

All I changed was bin from 1 to 2.  I'll try live tonight and update with my results. 




Ron Kramer
 

SEtup but still light out.  I clicked this test button.  I loaded a APPM pic from last night and it loaded and solved under 3 seconds.

All I changed was bin from 1 to 2.  I'll try live tonight and update with my results. 


Ron Kramer
 

I'll try again tonight. 


Ron Kramer
 

ASTAP is the best and fastest. NINA with ASTAP solves always in under 3 seconds ALWAYS.  Same install which never errors with NINA.  Hoping after spending another 106.00 I can get APPM working finally.  It did say it works with NINA and ASTAP? 


 

hmmm

i have used pinpoint for a year or so, and now ASTAP with APPM since the 1.9 release. I have not had any errors doing all sky modeling




On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 11:00 AM Sergei <sergei@...> wrote:
Hi Ray,

I'm also using ASTAP and get quite a few errors on plate solving points in APPM models. Failures also seem to occur very quickly - within a couple of seconds of APPM making a call to ASTAP. Is there a better solver you'd recommend that works more reliably with APPM? I use ASTAP from SGP as well and usually it's quite reliable there, but the sample size is much smaller of course.

Thank you for a terrific piece of software in APCC btw - couldn't imagine using my 1100-AE without it!

Sergei



--
Brian 



Brian Valente