Smart Meridian Flip with NINA #APCC


Joseph Beyer
 

Hi Dale,

Yes, with Ray's help it looks like things are sorted out and running as expected again.  

Thanks for posting your MF settings.  Mine matched except for the use of "Use telescope side of pier" which I've now turned on.  What settings should be selected in the Meridian tab of APCC?  

I stumbled on a couple settings one in the "Program Operation" box of the "Setup" tab in APCC under the "Advanced Settings" box. It brings up a dialogue that allows the user to link third party applications to APCC.  In previous versions of APCC this was limited to SGP but I see it now includes NINA.  By checking the box it now changes a check box found in the Meridian Limits tab to read "Send limit with offset to NINA". I'm assuming both of these need to activated to support the Smart Meridian Flip?      

I initially setup a standard meridian flip in NINA not using the APCC defined limits and it went off without a hitch.  The smart meridian flips I've tried not so much.  Seems the complicating factor is a lack of measurement points in my dec tracking models which results in poor pointing after the flip.  I'll refine my models a bit to see if I can get the mapping model numbers more reasonable to help pointing. 

Joe


Dale Ghent
 

Hi Joseph,

I've been out in the boonies again for the past week so have been catching up on this thread. It seems you have been having some general issues with APCC that have been sorted out with a settings reset?

If you are able to now try the SMF plugin again, make sure of the following:

- That your .mlm file from APCC is specified in the plugin's options (Plugins > Installed > Smart Meridian Flip)
- That the Smart Meridian Flip trigger is being used in your Advanced sequenced, either in a target-specific Trigger area or in the the Global Trigger area
- That you have reviewed the global Meridian Flip settings (Options > Imaging > Meridian flip settings). I have mine as such, if you want a reference:

https://i.imgur.com/sCrv1fM.png

Depending on your circumstances, you may wish to adjust the post-flip settle time to taste, and turn on Autofocus after flip if you have a telescope that suffers from mirror flop.

On Oct 13, 2021, at 14:02, Joseph Beyer <jcbeyer2001@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm hoping for some suggestions to help restore a functional connection between my computer and the mount. After the latest event that started with a meridian flip followed by pointing issues which then caused APCC-Pro to stop responding. I've gone back through all set up instructions for APCC and the V2 driver but was unable to get the mount to connect correctly. The end result was APCC would only open the then stop responding and require closing using task manager. The V2 driver would also open but the mount was unresponsive to both.

This morning George was very helpful in troubleshooting the connection problem. He came to the conclusion uninstalling and reinstalling APCC-Pro was likely indicated as it appears something may have been corrupted in the event. I reinstalled APCC and the connection problems were still present. I uninstalled and reinstalled the V2 driver as well, confirmed all ports were configured correctly in both programs but that also made no difference.

Currently APCC will open and attempt to connect but the "Connect" window hangs in the middle of the window. Shortly after that Windows pointing icon turns into a rotating circle and APCC becomes unresponsive.

I'm stumped at this point.


Joseph Beyer
 

I'm hoping for some suggestions to help restore a functional connection between my computer and the mount.  After the latest event that started with a meridian flip followed by pointing issues which then caused APCC-Pro to stop responding.  I've gone back through all set up instructions for APCC and the V2 driver but was unable to get the mount to connect correctly.  The end result was APCC would only open the then stop responding and require closing using task manager.  The V2 driver would also open but the mount was unresponsive to both.

This morning George was very helpful in troubleshooting the connection problem.  He came to the conclusion uninstalling and reinstalling APCC-Pro was likely indicated as it appears something may have been corrupted in the event.  I reinstalled APCC and the connection problems were still present.  I uninstalled and reinstalled the V2 driver as well, confirmed all ports were configured correctly in both programs but that also made no difference.  

Currently APCC will open and attempt to connect but the "Connect" window hangs in the middle of the window.  Shortly after that Windows pointing icon turns into a rotating circle and APCC becomes unresponsive.  

I'm stumped at this point. 


Joseph Beyer
 

Hi Andrew,

Thanks for the insight.  I agree, the software has a lot of potential.  My needs are definitely simpler than yours!  Software that simplifies a number of routines the way the advanced sequencer does in a real plus.  That said when I've had problems come up mid sequence it's not straight forward to shut things down then do a simple restart.  Probably just a matter of time though.

Joe


Joseph Beyer
 

Thanks Ray.  I definitely get the point for needing additional sample points on the west side.  I'll give it another run and see how it goes.

Joe


Andrew J
 

Hi Joe.

I also gave N.I.N.A a go this weekend. I didn't have meridian flip issues, but I did have problems getting my dome and safety monitors working. After it shut down everything the second time because a cloud went over I quit and went back to SGP. I haven't been able to determine how to build a sequence with auto-recovery. I think N.I.N.A is good sotware with a LOT of potential, but stilll a little rough around the edges as one would expect as version 1.11 is still in development. I love that I can use the Ground Station plugin with MQTT to publish the state of each piece of equipment. I use it with home assistant to keep tabs on everything. MQTT opens up a whole new world as now I can control non-ASCOM switches and other things in my observatory using MQTT and Home Assistant. That said, for N.I.N.A to be come my primary imaging software I would need the ability to easily Pause sequences, Replay parts of sequence, and it desperately needs a "debugger" that would allow me to place break points and step through the sequence one step and exit a sequence if I discover a problem. I also need to figure out to auto-recover a sequence so I don't loose an entire nights imaging if a few clouds blows over and sets off my safety monitor. 

Andrew


Ray Gralak
 

Joe,

I think you want to leave meridian limits enabled, but only enable West counterweight-up slews. Dale may need to confirm that.

I mentioned in an earlier post that high West-side pointing terms are likely caused by there not any data points at widely separated declinations. The Eastside doesn't usually have this problem because the first point at the zenith can provide one widely separated dec sample.

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Beyer
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2021 12:15 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Smart Meridian Flip with NINA #APCC

Got it.

Are there any particular parameters in the Meridian tab I should be cautious about? I've always kept the
"Counterweight Up Slews within:" East and West limits boxes checked. When sitting nearby the mount in the
past I've started imaging east of the meridian counterweights up and image through the meridian without a flip.
Since starting to use NINA I've unchecked the boxes assuming NINA would flip at the correct time. I've had it
work fine at least once. When I tried to add in the smart flip which included the use of meridian limits I
mapped for my equipment that's when things went bad initially, although that may be a red herring. It may all
come back to the pointing model values and the pointing model use which I need to disable each time. Any
thoughts on why my equipment is creating such high values beyond the need for a denser model? Pointing
and tracking are likely different animals but unguided imaging on the west side seems to be as accurate as
the east.

Joe


Joseph Beyer
 

Got it.  

Are there any particular parameters in the Meridian tab I should be cautious about?  I've always kept the "Counterweight Up Slews within:" East and West limits boxes checked.   When sitting nearby the mount in the past I've started imaging east of the meridian counterweights up and image through the meridian without a flip.  Since starting to use NINA I've unchecked the boxes assuming NINA would flip at the correct time.  I've had it work fine at least once.  When I tried to add in the smart flip which included the use of meridian limits I mapped for my equipment that's when things went bad initially, although that may be a red herring.  It may all come back to the pointing model values and the pointing model use which I need to disable each time.  Any thoughts on why my equipment is creating such high values beyond the need for a denser model?  Pointing and tracking are likely different animals but unguided imaging on the west side seems to be as accurate as the east. 

Joe     


Ray Gralak
 

Joe,

At the end of an APPM run, APPM will automatically enable pointing and tracking rate correction when it loads the new data into APCC, so you will need to turn it off afterward.

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Beyer
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2021 11:44 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Smart Meridian Flip with NINA #APCC

OK, thanks. I've actually starting making Dec models with three rows of points but I had this one already
made so I used it. Ironically I looked at it just before starting the mapping and debated whether to update it
with another row. Go figure.

I thought I had disabled the pointing model when I unchecked the "Enable Pointing Correction" box in the
"Pointing Model" tab of APCC. The program still shows it as unchecked as it was before I started the run. Is
there somewhere else I need to disable the feature?

Joe


Joseph Beyer
 

OK, thanks.  I've actually starting making Dec models with three rows of points but I had this one already made so I used it.  Ironically I looked at it just before starting the mapping and debated whether to update it with another row.  Go figure.

I thought I had disabled the pointing model when I unchecked the "Enable Pointing Correction" box in the "Pointing Model" tab of APCC.  The program still shows it as unchecked as it was before I started the run.  Is there somewhere else I need to disable the feature?

Joe


Ray Gralak
 

Joe,

 

The West all-sky model looks bad, as I suspected.

 

However, pointing-correction was on, so it appears that the bad west-side model moved the mount to a bad position.

 

It's unusual that the west side model is so bad (see screenshot). I suggest you try three rows of data points instead of two.

 

 

-Ray

 

> -----Original Message-----

> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Beyer

> Sent: Monday, October 11, 2021 10:36 AM

> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Smart Meridian Flip with NINA #APCC

>

> Hi Ray,

>

> Files are posted here:

> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Bkzp6E7gyMqm1zBJdabUFEeax7unijmY/view?usp=sharing

>

> The model was created just before the imaging run. I didn't notice any problems during the mapping, all plate

> solves were successful.

>

> Pointing corrections are disabled in APCC.

>

> Joe


Joseph Beyer
 

Hi Ray,

Files are posted here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Bkzp6E7gyMqm1zBJdabUFEeax7unijmY/view?usp=sharing

The model was created just before the imaging run. I didn't notice any problems during the mapping, all plate solves were successful.  

Pointing corrections are disabled in APCC.

Joe


Ray Gralak
 

Hi Joe,

Can you post a link to a zip file created via the APCC Log zipper utility that includes the APPM PNT file(s) as well as APCC, APPM, and AP V2 logs from last night? It sounds like the west side model may be bad. Did you have pointing corrections enabled in APCC?

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Beyer
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2021 9:43 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Smart Meridian Flip with NINA #APCC

I've still got a problem with NINA and APCC. Last night I created a relatively simple a sequence in the
advanced sequencer (one filter, 5 minute subs for 3.5 hours then park the scope) and all went well until the
meridian flip. I used the simple flip rather than the smart meridian flip which I'd had problems with recently.

I've been using APPM before each imaging run and am not guiding, only using the direct guider to provide a
dither every 3 or so frames. Last night the Mach1 was taking 5 minute subs with pinpoint stars.

At the start of the sequence the mount slewed to the target (NGC 7000), plate solved (no pointing correction
was needed) and started imaging sequence - no problems. The meridian flip was scheduled at the correct
time. Flip occurred but the telescope ended up pointing at the NE horizon. Stopped the sequence to
determine if the mount itself had lost pointing - parked to Park 3 without a problem. Repointed to target using
the sky atlas in NINA but pointing was incorrect, the Dec value appeared correct but it was pointing much
further west than the actual position (screen shot).

<blob:https://ap-gto.groups.io/c3fde1b8-2fa3-4519-b1f4-6722a62d76b9>

I was hoping to just get imaging again so tried to point with CdC which then froze APCC and caused it to
close. I can provide additional details after that but the night ended shortly after that with APCC not being
able to connect to the mount successfully.

Suggestions are welcome. I can provide more details, just didn't want to create a monologue of trivial facts.
Hopefully I can get APCC connecting to the mount again today as I can always just use the simple sequence
planner in the meantime until I get this figured out. I'm wondering if at this point I may want to reinstall both
software packages?

Joe


Joseph Beyer
 

I've still got a problem with NINA and APCC. Last night I created a relatively simple a sequence in the advanced sequencer (one filter, 5 minute subs for 3.5 hours then park the scope) and all went well until the meridian flip.  I used the simple flip rather than the smart meridian flip which I'd had problems with recently.

I've been using APPM before each imaging run and am not guiding, only using the direct guider to provide a dither every 3 or so frames.  Last night the Mach1 was taking 5 minute subs with pinpoint stars.  

At the start of the sequence the mount slewed to the target (NGC 7000), plate solved (no pointing correction was needed) and started imaging sequence - no problems.  The meridian flip was scheduled at the correct time.  Flip occurred but the telescope ended up pointing at the NE horizon.  Stopped the sequence to determine if the mount itself had lost pointing - parked to Park 3 without a problem.  Repointed to target using the sky atlas in NINA but pointing was incorrect, the Dec value appeared correct but it was pointing much further west than the actual position (screen shot). 



I was hoping to just get imaging again so tried to point with CdC which then froze APCC and caused it to close.  I can provide additional details after that but the night ended shortly after that with APCC not being able to connect to the mount successfully.  

Suggestions are welcome.  I can provide more details, just didn't want to create a monologue of trivial facts. Hopefully I can get APCC connecting to the mount again today as I can always just use the simple sequence planner in the meantime until I get this figured out.  I'm wondering if at this point I may want to reinstall both software packages?

Joe


Joseph Beyer
 

Not sure yet.  I got APCC working again with CdC and NINA yesterday but haven't run another sequence yet due to overcast skies.  The .mlm file I was using during the last sequencer run with the errant smart meridian flip is posted here:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gVYTAr03XbC2ZASwQ1t7N1MZbzPHzduO/view?usp=sharing


Dale Ghent
 

Joseph, I'm catching up on emails after a vacation. Is this still an issue? If so, can you share your .mlm file?

On Oct 2, 2021, at 18:21, Joseph Beyer <jcbeyer2001@gmail.com> wrote:

The smart meridian flip didn't work well for me last night. I ran a 28 point APPM arc before imaging. When I started the sequencer the telescope slewed directly to the target, centered (no movement was required as it was centered already) and focused. Before NINA started imaging the meridian flip flow alert popped up indicating a meridian flip was scheduled in 35 minutes - which was wrong based on my position. The program didn't start imaging but just seemed to be waiting for the flip. I canceled the alert and NINA started imaging and the interval east of the meridian was uneventful. The flip came at the correct time indicated by the sequencer, not the 35 minutes initially indicated, but after the mount flipped it ended up pointing somewhere north of the target - plate solved - then slewed further away from the target. I attempted to repoint the mount using CdC and it also went the wrong direction. Shortly after APCC crashed and after restarting the virtual ports I use 20 and 21 had been replaced by 8 and 9. Tried reslewing to the target and it was clear the mount was lost. Manually moved it to PARK 3 and closed it up for the night.

The standard meridian flip worked great several days earlier. The smart meridian flip not so much.

I can provide logs if anyone is interested. I'll check in with the NINA forum as well.

Joe


Joseph Beyer
 

I didn’t know that. That makes it all the easier for everyone. The improvements in the entire mount software package over the past four years have been amazing. Glad I was able to bring that part to your attention.

Thanks again, Joe

On Oct 3, 2021, at 3:04 PM, Ray Gralak <iogroups@siriusimaging.com> wrote:



There may have been no problem with 3 and 4. I have been designating the higher numbers based on the
APCC manual where they’re recommended.
We will have to update that part of the manual. It has been obsoleted since APCC can dynamically configure the ASCOM driver. There is no need to use higher port numbers.

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Beyer
Sent: Sunday, October 3, 2021 2:41 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Smart Meridian Flip with NINA #APCC

There may have been no problem with 3 and 4. I have been designating the higher numbers based on the
APCC manual where they’re recommended.

On Oct 3, 2021, at 2:34 PM, Ray Gralak <iogroups@siriusimaging.com> wrote:
Joe,

Thanks for the tip on auto-configuration of port selection, I've got it checked. I think I need to remember
to
power cycle the mount when I'm working on connections, correct? I'll admit the assignment of ports and
port
selection is a black box for me.
Just restarting APCC is all that is required. You do not need to power cycle the mount.

I loaded a backup profile from last week and initially it wouldn't connect. I refreshed the ports, it
connected
but for some reason ports 3 and 4 were selected. Power cycled the mount and the restarted the computer
and ports 20, 21 were selected.
What was wrong with ports 3 and 4? Any COM port not in use is eligible to be used as a virtual COM port.

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Beyer
Sent: Sunday, October 3, 2021 1:00 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Smart Meridian Flip with NINA #APCC

Ray,

Thanks for the tip on auto-configuration of port selection, I've got it checked. I think I need to remember
to
power cycle the mount when I'm working on connections, correct? I'll admit the assignment of ports and
port
selection is a black box for me.

I loaded a backup profile from last week and initially it wouldn't connect. I refreshed the ports, it
connected
but for some reason ports 3 and 4 were selected. Power cycled the mount and the restarted the computer
and ports 20, 21 were selected. Now the mount seems to work fine with APCC, connects to CdC and able
to
point and slew to stars, and connected to NINA and am able to slew from that program as well. Seems I'm
back in business.

There shouldn't be any conflicts on my network. There is a single ethernet cable from the computer to the
CP4 although it's connected to the computer through a USB-C adapter. The computer doesn't have a
dedicated ethernet port. I turned off pointing correction for now unless I create a larger all-sky model then
I'll
watch the values that are presented.

Thanks for the help. It doesn't sound like there were any tells as to what happened. I'll keep my fingers
crossed that everything else clicks into place.

Joe











Ray Gralak
 

There may have been no problem with 3 and 4. I have been designating the higher numbers based on the
APCC manual where they’re recommended.
We will have to update that part of the manual. It has been obsoleted since APCC can dynamically configure the ASCOM driver. There is no need to use higher port numbers.

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Beyer
Sent: Sunday, October 3, 2021 2:41 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Smart Meridian Flip with NINA #APCC

There may have been no problem with 3 and 4. I have been designating the higher numbers based on the
APCC manual where they’re recommended.

On Oct 3, 2021, at 2:34 PM, Ray Gralak <iogroups@siriusimaging.com> wrote:

Joe,

Thanks for the tip on auto-configuration of port selection, I've got it checked. I think I need to remember
to
power cycle the mount when I'm working on connections, correct? I'll admit the assignment of ports and
port
selection is a black box for me.
Just restarting APCC is all that is required. You do not need to power cycle the mount.

I loaded a backup profile from last week and initially it wouldn't connect. I refreshed the ports, it
connected
but for some reason ports 3 and 4 were selected. Power cycled the mount and the restarted the computer
and ports 20, 21 were selected.
What was wrong with ports 3 and 4? Any COM port not in use is eligible to be used as a virtual COM port.

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Beyer
Sent: Sunday, October 3, 2021 1:00 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Smart Meridian Flip with NINA #APCC

Ray,

Thanks for the tip on auto-configuration of port selection, I've got it checked. I think I need to remember
to
power cycle the mount when I'm working on connections, correct? I'll admit the assignment of ports and
port
selection is a black box for me.

I loaded a backup profile from last week and initially it wouldn't connect. I refreshed the ports, it
connected
but for some reason ports 3 and 4 were selected. Power cycled the mount and the restarted the computer
and ports 20, 21 were selected. Now the mount seems to work fine with APCC, connects to CdC and able
to
point and slew to stars, and connected to NINA and am able to slew from that program as well. Seems I'm
back in business.

There shouldn't be any conflicts on my network. There is a single ethernet cable from the computer to the
CP4 although it's connected to the computer through a USB-C adapter. The computer doesn't have a
dedicated ethernet port. I turned off pointing correction for now unless I create a larger all-sky model then
I'll
watch the values that are presented.

Thanks for the help. It doesn't sound like there were any tells as to what happened. I'll keep my fingers
crossed that everything else clicks into place.

Joe






Joseph Beyer
 

There may have been no problem with 3 and 4. I have been designating the higher numbers based on the APCC manual where they’re recommended.

On Oct 3, 2021, at 2:34 PM, Ray Gralak <iogroups@siriusimaging.com> wrote:

Joe,

Thanks for the tip on auto-configuration of port selection, I've got it checked. I think I need to remember to
power cycle the mount when I'm working on connections, correct? I'll admit the assignment of ports and port
selection is a black box for me.
Just restarting APCC is all that is required. You do not need to power cycle the mount.

I loaded a backup profile from last week and initially it wouldn't connect. I refreshed the ports, it connected
but for some reason ports 3 and 4 were selected. Power cycled the mount and the restarted the computer
and ports 20, 21 were selected.
What was wrong with ports 3 and 4? Any COM port not in use is eligible to be used as a virtual COM port.

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Beyer
Sent: Sunday, October 3, 2021 1:00 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Smart Meridian Flip with NINA #APCC

Ray,

Thanks for the tip on auto-configuration of port selection, I've got it checked. I think I need to remember to
power cycle the mount when I'm working on connections, correct? I'll admit the assignment of ports and port
selection is a black box for me.

I loaded a backup profile from last week and initially it wouldn't connect. I refreshed the ports, it connected
but for some reason ports 3 and 4 were selected. Power cycled the mount and the restarted the computer
and ports 20, 21 were selected. Now the mount seems to work fine with APCC, connects to CdC and able to
point and slew to stars, and connected to NINA and am able to slew from that program as well. Seems I'm
back in business.

There shouldn't be any conflicts on my network. There is a single ethernet cable from the computer to the
CP4 although it's connected to the computer through a USB-C adapter. The computer doesn't have a
dedicated ethernet port. I turned off pointing correction for now unless I create a larger all-sky model then I'll
watch the values that are presented.

Thanks for the help. It doesn't sound like there were any tells as to what happened. I'll keep my fingers
crossed that everything else clicks into place.

Joe





Ray Gralak
 

Joe,

Thanks for the tip on auto-configuration of port selection, I've got it checked. I think I need to remember to
power cycle the mount when I'm working on connections, correct? I'll admit the assignment of ports and port
selection is a black box for me.
Just restarting APCC is all that is required. You do not need to power cycle the mount.

I loaded a backup profile from last week and initially it wouldn't connect. I refreshed the ports, it connected
but for some reason ports 3 and 4 were selected. Power cycled the mount and the restarted the computer
and ports 20, 21 were selected.
What was wrong with ports 3 and 4? Any COM port not in use is eligible to be used as a virtual COM port.

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Beyer
Sent: Sunday, October 3, 2021 1:00 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Smart Meridian Flip with NINA #APCC

Ray,

Thanks for the tip on auto-configuration of port selection, I've got it checked. I think I need to remember to
power cycle the mount when I'm working on connections, correct? I'll admit the assignment of ports and port
selection is a black box for me.

I loaded a backup profile from last week and initially it wouldn't connect. I refreshed the ports, it connected
but for some reason ports 3 and 4 were selected. Power cycled the mount and the restarted the computer
and ports 20, 21 were selected. Now the mount seems to work fine with APCC, connects to CdC and able to
point and slew to stars, and connected to NINA and am able to slew from that program as well. Seems I'm
back in business.

There shouldn't be any conflicts on my network. There is a single ethernet cable from the computer to the
CP4 although it's connected to the computer through a USB-C adapter. The computer doesn't have a
dedicated ethernet port. I turned off pointing correction for now unless I create a larger all-sky model then I'll
watch the values that are presented.

Thanks for the help. It doesn't sound like there were any tells as to what happened. I'll keep my fingers
crossed that everything else clicks into place.

Joe