APPM Run vs Plate Solve and Recal


Bill Long
 

APPM solving using ASTAP has been great. I did nothing to the settings either. Built a model at 0.87"/px and 0.6"/px and both times it worked like a champ. 


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <iogroups@...>
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2021 7:47 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM Run vs Plate Solve and Recal
 
> Ray, I did review the images from the failed solves.  The images from the failed solves will solve if I use
> ASTAP directly.

Geoff, APPM just starts ASTAP with the settings you have configured on APPM's tab. Either way, ASTAP is doing the plate solving, not APPM.

In my testing, ASTAP seemed to be a very finicky plate solver. Tweaking the settings can make or break plate-solving an image.

-Ray

> -----Original Message-----
> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Geoffrey Collins via groups.io
> Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2021 6:30 PM
> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM Run vs Plate Solve and Recal
>
> Ray, I did review the images from the failed solves.  The images from the failed solves will solve if I use
> ASTAP directly.
>
> The 30+ model run finished fine with only a failed couple of solves due to a tree obstruction.  I need to adjust
> the horizon limit a little more.  Right after I finished the 30+ point run I started a 178 point run.  The plate solves
> failed other than maybe the first.
>
> The next few nights I did not try another model run. I just imaged.
>
> Tonight I tried a 178 point run and it is working perfectly.  I have the settle time set to 10 seconds.  I assume
> this is terribly excessive, but I am just going to let it run and finish.
>
>
>
> On the night of the 26th, the near full moon had risen by the time I started the second run.  Do you think that
> was the problem with that attempt and the previous attempts that week?  I assume ASTAP would solve the
> same way APPM would solve.  I certainly am using ASTAP in APPM on most attempts and on my 2 current
> successful runs.  Anyway, I am glad to be able to use full frame and 1x1 through NINA.
>
>
>
> Can I send you the results of the run so you can tell me how much flexible etc I have?
>
>







Ray Gralak
 

Ray, I did review the images from the failed solves. The images from the failed solves will solve if I use
ASTAP directly.
Geoff, APPM just starts ASTAP with the settings you have configured on APPM's tab. Either way, ASTAP is doing the plate solving, not APPM.

In my testing, ASTAP seemed to be a very finicky plate solver. Tweaking the settings can make or break plate-solving an image.

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Geoffrey Collins via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2021 6:30 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM Run vs Plate Solve and Recal

Ray, I did review the images from the failed solves. The images from the failed solves will solve if I use
ASTAP directly.

The 30+ model run finished fine with only a failed couple of solves due to a tree obstruction. I need to adjust
the horizon limit a little more. Right after I finished the 30+ point run I started a 178 point run. The plate solves
failed other than maybe the first.

The next few nights I did not try another model run. I just imaged.

Tonight I tried a 178 point run and it is working perfectly. I have the settle time set to 10 seconds. I assume
this is terribly excessive, but I am just going to let it run and finish.



On the night of the 26th, the near full moon had risen by the time I started the second run. Do you think that
was the problem with that attempt and the previous attempts that week? I assume ASTAP would solve the
same way APPM would solve. I certainly am using ASTAP in APPM on most attempts and on my 2 current
successful runs. Anyway, I am glad to be able to use full frame and 1x1 through NINA.



Can I send you the results of the run so you can tell me how much flexible etc I have?


Geoffrey Collins
 

Ray, I did review the images from the failed solves.  The images from the failed solves will solve if I use ASTAP directly. 

The 30+ model run finished fine with only a failed couple of solves due to a tree obstruction.  I need to adjust the horizon limit a little more.  Right after I finished the 30+ point run I started a 178 point run.  The plate solves failed other than maybe the first. 

The next few nights I did not try another model run. I just imaged.  

Tonight I tried a 178 point run and it is working perfectly.  I have the settle time set to 10 seconds.  I assume this is terribly excessive, but I am just going to let it run and finish.

On the night of the 26th, the near full moon had risen by the time I started the second run.  Do you think that was the problem with that attempt and the previous attempts that week?  I assume ASTAP would solve the same way APPM would solve.  I certainly am using ASTAP in APPM on most attempts and on my 2 current successful runs.  Anyway, I am glad to be able to use full frame and 1x1 through NINA.

Can I send you the results of the run so you can tell me how much flexible etc I have?


Ray Gralak
 

I changed the settle time to 5 seconds and started a mapping run. All the points have solved (already up to 9
points) so far. I assume that was the problem. Thanks psparkman.
Yes, trailing stars can cause plate-solve failures. I'm glad you found the problem. In the future, if you have a plate solve failure, you might want to try looking at the image to see if you can see a reason for the failure. (e.g. no stars because of clouds or a tree obstructing the sky, star trailing, etc.)

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Geoffrey Collins via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2021 9:06 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM Run vs Plate Solve and Recal

I changed the settle time to 5 seconds and started a mapping run. All the points have solved (already up to 9
points) so far. I assume that was the problem. Thanks psparkman.

No I can try the new dec arc tracking.


Ray Gralak
 

Geoffrey,

I did notice that in the settings review if using ASTAP there is a reference to the catalogue I use for Pinpoint. I
assume this isn’t the problem because it would impact all users.
As far as I can tell ASTAP cannot be told which database to use, so there is zero impact.

Ray, I have all solves set to save. I selected this option from my first use. I can find the fits files from the plate
solves in the mapping run but I don’t see an INI file. The log zipper shows the reason for the fail as plate solve
timed out.
Did you try looking at some of the failed images to see if there is an obvious reason for the failures?

-Ray


Patrick Sparkman
 

You are welcome Geoffrey.  Glad that helped!


Geoffrey Collins
 

I changed the settle time to 5 seconds and started a mapping run.  All the points have solved (already up to 9 points) so far.  I assume that was the problem.  Thanks psparkman.  

No I can try the new dec arc tracking.


Geoffrey Collins
 

I have tried for 2 more nights to get a mapping run to work.  The plate solves always fail in the mapping run but the plate solves alway solve if I click the plate solve button in APPM or if use NINA.

Linwood, thanks on the settings tips.  I do have it setup to unpark from last park position on initialization, but I am having the same issues.  It is only on unpark for the first time of the night.  If I park for some reason during the night and then unpark there is no issue.  I must have something setup wrong on initialization.  It is not a huge problem since I am not remote.  

psparkman, I have the settle time set at 2 seconds.  I will extend settle time to 5 seconds and see if it helps.  

I did notice that in the settings review if using ASTAP there is a reference to the catalogue I use for Pinpoint.  I assume this isn’t the problem because it would impact all users.

Ray, I have all solves set to save.  I selected this option from my first use.  I can find the fits files from the plate solves in the mapping run but I don’t see an INI file.  The log zipper shows the reason for the fail as plate solve timed out.  


Patrick Sparkman
 

Just a thought...How long is your settle time during the model generation?  If your settle time is too short you might be getting elongated stars that don't solve.  The first solve and recal you perform might settle longer because you have manually moved there.  Just a thought.  

I was seeing plate solve failures near the meridian points of the APPM model.  Looking at the images, they had elongated stars.  I locked the mirror on my C14, increased the settle time, and improved the mounting rigidity and now it solves 100% of the time unless there are clouds.


ap@CaptivePhotons.com
 

Geoffrey Collins wrote:

 

  • On initialization it unparks automatically.  I have it set not to unpark.  I remember from this group that there is a way to prevent automatic unpacking on initialization, but I have not gone back to review that post again.  After initialization during the night, I always unpark in APCC with Park 3 on the park tab rather than picking unpark from last position.

 

I recently tracked both down so while fresh in my mind here’s a screen shot.  Left (from Settings,  Initialize Mount Settings) is for initialization, Park tab is for regular.   On the left the dropdown also has a “don’t unpark” available.  Tracking (or not) is on both also.

 


Ray Gralak
 

Geoffrey,

 

> The mount accuracy/RMS without the model is still great but not as good as it was when I had a model with only 32

> points.  Pointing with the model was perfect.  Now it is a little off.

 

All-sky modeling has not changed between 1.8.8.17 to 1.9.0.1 so whatever difference you are seeing is in the data you are collecting. If you are using a different plate solver, for instance, accuracy will be different.

 

> the error log solved max solve time exceeded but maybe I didn’t look in the correct place.

 

APPM should report an error. If you are using ASTAP I explained how to find the error in a previous post to you. Here is that information again:

 

"If you haven't already, you can prevent APPM from deleting the FITS image by saving failed images as shown in the screen shot below. Then look for the file with the same name as the fits file but with an “.INI” extension. Open that file and look for a line that says “WARNING=” and that should contain the reason for the failed plate solve."

 

 

-Ray

 

> -----Original Message-----

> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Geoffrey Collins via groups.io

> Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2021 8:29 PM

> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM Run vs Plate Solve and Recal

>

> Ray,

>

> I can plate solve and the pointing is spot on for that particular point from then on.  If I try do do a mapping run the

> plate solves fail.  I can stop the mapping run at any point and do a plate solve that will solve.  I assume I have

> something is set up wrong in the mapping run.  But I could do a mapping run before the update.

>

>

> 2s is the settle time.

>

> I did try the high accuracy slew tonight.

>

> The plate solve when I press the Plate Solve or Plate Solve and Recal button is fractions of a second.  The max

> solve time is currently set to 35 seconds.

>

> the error log solved max solve time exceeded but maybe I didn’t look in the correct place.

>

> The mount accuracy/RMS without the model is still great but not as good as it was when I had a model with only 32

> points.  Pointing with the model was perfect.  Now it is a little off.

>

>

>


Geoffrey Collins
 

Ray,

I can plate solve and the pointing is spot on for that particular point from then on.  If I try do do a mapping run the plate solves fail.  I can stop the mapping run at any point and do a plate solve that will solve.  I assume I have something is set up wrong in the mapping run.  But I could do a mapping run before the update.  


2s is the settle time.

I did try the high accuracy slew tonight. 

The plate solve when I press the Plate Solve or Plate Solve and Recal button is fractions of a second.  The max solve time is currently set to 35 seconds.

the error log solved max solve time exceeded but maybe I didn’t look in the correct place.  

The mount accuracy/RMS without the model is still great but not as good as it was when I had a model with only 32 points.  Pointing with the model was perfect.  Now it is a little off.

 


Geoffrey Collins
 

Ok. Thank you.


Ray Gralak
 

After initialization during the night, I always unpark in APCC with Park 3 on the park tab rather than picking
unpark from last position.
That's the problem. Don’t do that. You are losing the model's RA/Dec offset by doing that.

I keep trying to do a mapping run but the plate solves fail. I can stop the mapping run and do a plate solve and the
plate solve succeeds.
Have you followed the suggestions I made yesterday to determine why the plate solves are failing? One possibility is that you there wasn't enough settle time.

And BTW, if NINA was not set as a server you couldn't have used it to plate solve when you stopped the mapping run. Maybe you mis-remembered and were using ASCOM Camera control instead? And because you unparked from Park 3 the offset RA/Dec values can make some plate solves fail.

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Geoffrey Collins via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2021 7:45 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM Run vs Plate Solve and Recal

On initialization it unparks automatically. I have it set not to unpark. I remember from this group that there is a way
to prevent automatic unpacking on initialization, but I have not gone back to review that post again. After
initialization during the night, I always unpark in APCC with Park 3 on the park tab rather than picking unpark from
last position.

I keep trying to do a mapping run but the plate solves fail. I can stop the mapping run and do a plate solve and the
plate solve succeeds.

Thank you for your help. Your dedication to customers is unbelievable. I love the mount. The through the mount
cabling is great and the modular components for longevity with the ability to unhook the CP4 are genius.


Roland Christen
 


I always unpark in APCC with Park 3 on the park tab rather than picking unpark from last position.
That's your problem. Always unpark from last position.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Geoffrey Collins via groups.io <geoffreycollins@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Aug 24, 2021 9:44 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM Run vs Plate Solve and Recal

On initialization it unparks automatically.  I have it set not to unpark.  I remember from this group that there is a way to prevent automatic unpacking on initialization, but I have not gone back to review that post again.  After initialization during the night, I always unpark in APCC with Park 3 on the park tab rather than picking unpark from last position.

I keep trying to do a mapping run but the plate solves fail.  I can stop the mapping run and do a plate solve and the plate solve succeeds.  

Thank you for your help.  Your dedication to customers is unbelievable. I love the mount.  The through the mount cabling is great and the modular components for longevity with the ability to unhook the CP4 are genius.

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Geoffrey Collins
 

On initialization it unparks automatically.  I have it set not to unpark.  I remember from this group that there is a way to prevent automatic unpacking on initialization, but I have not gone back to review that post again.  After initialization during the night, I always unpark in APCC with Park 3 on the park tab rather than picking unpark from last position.

I keep trying to do a mapping run but the plate solves fail.  I can stop the mapping run and do a plate solve and the plate solve succeeds.  

Thank you for your help.  Your dedication to customers is unbelievable. I love the mount.  The through the mount cabling is great and the modular components for longevity with the ability to unhook the CP4 are genius.


Roland Christen
 

How do you unpark?

Roland


-----Original Message-----
From: Geoffrey Collins via groups.io <geoffreycollins@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Aug 24, 2021 9:07 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM Run vs Plate Solve and Recal

I have an 1100.  I always park with APCC.  It parks properly except for the first time each night.  Pointing is off significantly unless I repark after initialization and then loosen clutch in RA to get the mount back to zero/counter weight down.  I am sure I have a setting wrong somewhere.

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Geoffrey Collins
 

I have an 1100.  I always park with APCC.  It parks properly except for the first time each night.  Pointing is off significantly unless I repark after initialization and then loosen clutch in RA to get the mount back to zero/counter weight down.  I am sure I have a setting wrong somewhere.


Roland Christen
 

Usually parking issues are caused by unparking with one app and parking with a different app, if these apps have slightly different times. This does not occur in the Mach2, so I'm assuming you have another mount.

Roland



-----Original Message-----
From: Geoffrey Collins via groups.io <geoffreycollins@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Aug 24, 2021 8:54 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM Run vs Plate Solve and Recal

Thanks Brent.  Server was not enabled.  I enabled server and now NINA camera works with APPM.

Anyone have any ideas why plate solves fail in a mapping run but not if I click the button Plate Solve or Plate Solve and Recal?  Mapping run plate solves worked before the recent APCC update.

I also still have the parking issue above when starting up the first time each day.

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Geoffrey Collins
 

Thanks Brent.  Server was not enabled.  I enabled server and now NINA camera works with APPM.

Anyone have any ideas why plate solves fail in a mapping run but not if I click the button Plate Solve or Plate Solve and Recal?  Mapping run plate solves worked before the recent APCC update.

I also still have the parking issue above when starting up the first time each day.