Ugghhh cross threaded CW shaft into CW shaft adapter with metal threaded sleeve


Cheng-Yang Tan
 

Hi guys,
   Well, there are some people in this Universe who are blessed with the talent of not being able to do anything mechanical -- I'm one of those. My fear of cross threading the CW shaft into the CW adapter has finally come true :( :



As I untwisted the shaft out of the adapter (cursing and swearing + tapping with mallet on a long hex driver inserted into a hole in the adapter), instead of the shaft coming off, the metal sleeve came off with the shaft :(

Any ideas about how I can remove the shaft from the adapter?

And the best part was that I had actually lubed the threads of CW shaft so that I wouldn't do this.

Ugghhh!!!!!

cytan

P.S. The good thing is that I still have the old version of the CW adapter and an extra CW shaft, so technically, the AP1100 is still fine.


Christopher Erickson
 

Your friendly local machine shop will be able to deal with this without a problem.

"My advice is always free and worth every penny!"

-Christopher Erickson
Observatory Engineer
Summit Kinetics
Waikoloa, Hawaii


Virus-free. www.avg.com


On Sun, Aug 15, 2021 at 7:11 AM Cheng-Yang Tan via groups.io <cytan299=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi guys,
   Well, there are some people in this Universe who are blessed with the talent of not being able to do anything mechanical -- I'm one of those. My fear of cross threading the CW shaft into the CW adapter has finally come true :( :



As I untwisted the shaft out of the adapter (cursing and swearing + tapping with mallet on a long hex driver inserted into a hole in the adapter), instead of the shaft coming off, the metal sleeve came off with the shaft :(

Any ideas about how I can remove the shaft from the adapter?

And the best part was that I had actually lubed the threads of CW shaft so that I wouldn't do this.

Ugghhh!!!!!

cytan

P.S. The good thing is that I still have the old version of the CW adapter and an extra CW shaft, so technically, the AP1100 is still fine.


Christopher Erickson
 

My guess is that there was a sliver or two of aluminum in the threads of the counterweight shaft and that is what got the shaft and the adapter bound up together. Cleaning those threads first with an old toothbrush or wire brush first might have helped.

"My advice is always free and worth every penny!"

-Christopher Erickson
Observatory Engineer
Summit Kinetics
Waikoloa, Hawaii


Virus-free. www.avg.com


On Sun, Aug 15, 2021 at 7:28 AM Christopher Erickson via groups.io <christopher.k.erickson=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Your friendly local machine shop will be able to deal with this without a problem.

"My advice is always free and worth every penny!"

-Christopher Erickson
Observatory Engineer
Summit Kinetics
Waikoloa, Hawaii


Virus-free. www.avg.com

On Sun, Aug 15, 2021 at 7:11 AM Cheng-Yang Tan via groups.io <cytan299=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi guys,
   Well, there are some people in this Universe who are blessed with the talent of not being able to do anything mechanical -- I'm one of those. My fear of cross threading the CW shaft into the CW adapter has finally come true :( :



As I untwisted the shaft out of the adapter (cursing and swearing + tapping with mallet on a long hex driver inserted into a hole in the adapter), instead of the shaft coming off, the metal sleeve came off with the shaft :(

Any ideas about how I can remove the shaft from the adapter?

And the best part was that I had actually lubed the threads of CW shaft so that I wouldn't do this.

Ugghhh!!!!!

cytan

P.S. The good thing is that I still have the old version of the CW adapter and an extra CW shaft, so technically, the AP1100 is still fine.


Christopher Erickson
 

And if you don't want to get the help of a machine shop, a rubber strap wrench and a bench vise with a couple small pieces of plywood in the jaws will probably help you get them apart without marring up the adapter.

When you get them apart, carefully clean the threads of both with a wire brush and a paper towel before re-lubing them and putting them back together. 

"My advice is always free and worth every penny!"

-Christopher Erickson
Observatory Engineer
Summit Kinetics
Waikoloa, Hawaii


Virus-free. www.avg.com


On Sun, Aug 15, 2021 at 7:33 AM Christopher Erickson via groups.io <christopher.k.erickson=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
My guess is that there was a sliver or two of aluminum in the threads of the counterweight shaft and that is what got the shaft and the adapter bound up together. Cleaning those threads first with an old toothbrush or wire brush first might have helped.

"My advice is always free and worth every penny!"

-Christopher Erickson
Observatory Engineer
Summit Kinetics
Waikoloa, Hawaii


Virus-free. www.avg.com

On Sun, Aug 15, 2021 at 7:28 AM Christopher Erickson via groups.io <christopher.k.erickson=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Your friendly local machine shop will be able to deal with this without a problem.

"My advice is always free and worth every penny!"

-Christopher Erickson
Observatory Engineer
Summit Kinetics
Waikoloa, Hawaii


Virus-free. www.avg.com

On Sun, Aug 15, 2021 at 7:11 AM Cheng-Yang Tan via groups.io <cytan299=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi guys,
   Well, there are some people in this Universe who are blessed with the talent of not being able to do anything mechanical -- I'm one of those. My fear of cross threading the CW shaft into the CW adapter has finally come true :( :



As I untwisted the shaft out of the adapter (cursing and swearing + tapping with mallet on a long hex driver inserted into a hole in the adapter), instead of the shaft coming off, the metal sleeve came off with the shaft :(

Any ideas about how I can remove the shaft from the adapter?

And the best part was that I had actually lubed the threads of CW shaft so that I wouldn't do this.

Ugghhh!!!!!

cytan

P.S. The good thing is that I still have the old version of the CW adapter and an extra CW shaft, so technically, the AP1100 is still fine.


Don Anderson
 

It is not likely that the shaft and adapter are actually cross threaded. You would have know if that happened since you would not have been able to thread the shaft all the way in.
It is possible that there was some contamination on the threads of either the shaft or the adapter when you made the connection. Try heating the adapter with boiling water. That may
expand it enough to enable you to tap it loose with the mallet.
Hope this helps

Don Anderson


On Sunday, August 15, 2021, 11:11:59 a.m. MDT, Cheng-Yang Tan via groups.io <cytan299@...> wrote:


Hi guys,
   Well, there are some people in this Universe who are blessed with the talent of not being able to do anything mechanical -- I'm one of those. My fear of cross threading the CW shaft into the CW adapter has finally come true :( :



As I untwisted the shaft out of the adapter (cursing and swearing + tapping with mallet on a long hex driver inserted into a hole in the adapter), instead of the shaft coming off, the metal sleeve came off with the shaft :(

Any ideas about how I can remove the shaft from the adapter?

And the best part was that I had actually lubed the threads of CW shaft so that I wouldn't do this.

Ugghhh!!!!!

cytan

P.S. The good thing is that I still have the old version of the CW adapter and an extra CW shaft, so technically, the AP1100 is still fine.


Cheng-Yang Tan
 

The adapter (black part) is off so it'll not be marred. The threaded sleeve is stuck onto the CW shaft. I'm worried that I'll mar the exterior threads of the sleeve while trying to get it off.

But in the end, it may be that I'll need to get a new sleeve if I can actually get the sleeve off. 

I'll talk to my friends who actually know how to do this. I don't have too many tools at home because don't want to hurt myself :)


cytan

On Sunday, August 15, 2021, 12:39:17 PM CDT, Christopher Erickson <christopher.k.erickson@...> wrote:


And if you don't want to get the help of a machine shop, a rubber strap wrench and a bench vise with a couple small pieces of plywood in the jaws will probably help you get them apart without marring up the adapter.

When you get them apart, carefully clean the threads of both with a wire brush and a paper towel before re-lubing them and putting them back together. 

"My advice is always free and worth every penny!"

-Christopher Erickson
Observatory Engineer
Summit Kinetics
Waikoloa, Hawaii


Virus-free. www.avg.com

On Sun, Aug 15, 2021 at 7:33 AM Christopher Erickson via groups.io <christopher.k.erickson=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
My guess is that there was a sliver or two of aluminum in the threads of the counterweight shaft and that is what got the shaft and the adapter bound up together. Cleaning those threads first with an old toothbrush or wire brush first might have helped.

"My advice is always free and worth every penny!"

-Christopher Erickson
Observatory Engineer
Summit Kinetics
Waikoloa, Hawaii


Virus-free. www.avg.com

On Sun, Aug 15, 2021 at 7:28 AM Christopher Erickson via groups.io <christopher.k.erickson=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Your friendly local machine shop will be able to deal with this without a problem.

"My advice is always free and worth every penny!"

-Christopher Erickson
Observatory Engineer
Summit Kinetics
Waikoloa, Hawaii


Virus-free. www.avg.com

On Sun, Aug 15, 2021 at 7:11 AM Cheng-Yang Tan via groups.io <cytan299=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi guys,
   Well, there are some people in this Universe who are blessed with the talent of not being able to do anything mechanical -- I'm one of those. My fear of cross threading the CW shaft into the CW adapter has finally come true :( :



As I untwisted the shaft out of the adapter (cursing and swearing + tapping with mallet on a long hex driver inserted into a hole in the adapter), instead of the shaft coming off, the metal sleeve came off with the shaft :(

Any ideas about how I can remove the shaft from the adapter?

And the best part was that I had actually lubed the threads of CW shaft so that I wouldn't do this.

Ugghhh!!!!!

cytan

P.S. The good thing is that I still have the old version of the CW adapter and an extra CW shaft, so technically, the AP1100 is still fine.


Sébastien Doré
 


Try heating the adapter with boiling water. 

I would actually try the opposite, putting it in the freezer so metal contracts and parts loosen...

Hope this helps.

Sébastien 


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Cheng-Yang Tan
 

Good idea. It’s going into the freezer


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Sunday, August 15, 2021, 1:28 PM, Seb@stro <sebastiendore1@...> wrote:


Try heating the adapter with boiling water. 

I would actually try the opposite, putting it in the freezer so metal contracts and parts loosen...

Hope this helps.

Sébastien 


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Cheng-Yang Tan
 

Tried freezing and boiling water, but I can't get it off. The problem is that I don't have the right tools to do this.

cytan


On Sunday, August 15, 2021, 01:28:58 PM CDT, Seb@stro <sebastiendore1@...> wrote:



Try heating the adapter with boiling water. 

I would actually try the opposite, putting it in the freezer so metal contracts and parts loosen...

Hope this helps.

Sébastien 


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ap@CaptivePhotons.com
 

 

  • Tried freezing and boiling water, but I can't get it off. The problem is that I don't have the right tools to do this.

 

Do you have two strap wrenches?

 

I’d start with those.   Or if you have soft grips on a vice even better for the shaft (not the threads), but that’s less common to have sitting around.  Strap wrenches you can buy at any home improvement store, and are pretty safe (well, don’t slip and drop the bar on your toe, but unlike metal wrenches you won’t mar up the bar with a strap wrench).

 

The problem with heat/cold is that I think both are stainless and probably change together, though it may be worth while freezing all of it really cold, then having boiling water standing by and dunk just the end into the boiling water and very quickly afterwards try turning with the strap wrench.  The idea being to expand just the adapter end.  

 

But frankly I suspect temperature is not going to help, as heat conducts very quickly in steel.

 

You can also try penetrating oil on the threads just so once it moves at all, it will be easier to keep going.

 


Cheng-Yang Tan
 

I think I'll have to get my friends to help with this. They are a lot more knowledgeable how to do hands on stuff than I do.

cytan

On Sunday, August 15, 2021, 02:53:11 PM CDT, ap@... <ap@...> wrote:


 

  • Tried freezing and boiling water, but I can't get it off. The problem is that I don't have the right tools to do this.

 

Do you have two strap wrenches?

 

I’d start with those.   Or if you have soft grips on a vice even better for the shaft (not the threads), but that’s less common to have sitting around.  Strap wrenches you can buy at any home improvement store, and are pretty safe (well, don’t slip and drop the bar on your toe, but unlike metal wrenches you won’t mar up the bar with a strap wrench).

 

The problem with heat/cold is that I think both are stainless and probably change together, though it may be worth while freezing all of it really cold, then having boiling water standing by and dunk just the end into the boiling water and very quickly afterwards try turning with the strap wrench.  The idea being to expand just the adapter end.  

 

But frankly I suspect temperature is not going to help, as heat conducts very quickly in steel.

 

You can also try penetrating oil on the threads just so once it moves at all, it will be easier to keep going.

 


Konstantin von Poschinger
 

Hi,

Put a counter weigt on the shaft. Tighten it and turn then using the counter weight.

Grüsse

Konstantin v. Poschinger


Hammerichstr. 5
22605 Hamburg
040/8805747
0171/1983476

Am 15.08.2021 um 20:29 schrieb sebastiendore1@...:



Try heating the adapter with boiling water. 

I would actually try the opposite, putting it in the freezer so metal contracts and parts loosen...

Hope this helps.

Sébastien 


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Klwalsh2061
 

If you can get two nuts of the proper size, screw them on to the thread size adapter, then tighten them against each other.
Then use a pair of wrenches, one on the shaft and one on the inner nut. The outer nut will act as a stop for the inner nut, allowing the adapter to be unscrewed from the end of the shaft. Once the adapter is off, you can use the two wrenches to loosen the two nuts and remove them from the adapter.

Good luck.
KWalsh


Cheng-Yang Tan
 

Unfortunately, it's really, really stuck.

I asked two of my colleagues who are senior techs to help remove the sleeve. These guys work on stainless steel threaded parts all the time and they can't get it off with a blow torch (well, there goes the mica washer) + wrench + elbow grease. It's going on a lathe next to shave off the sleeve.

And about using nuts, they think it's an oddball size so there's no nuts that can fit.

At this point, it's just a point of pride for them to get the sleeve off. But their advice is to get a new CW. Who knows why the CW got stuck in the first place -- it may be a nick on one of the threads or I'm a lot stronger than I think I am :)

I had sprayed on graphite lube on the CW threads before, but clearly that wasn't enough to prevent this.

cytan

On Monday, August 16, 2021, 10:01:33 AM CDT, KLWALSH2061 <kevin.walsh@...> wrote:


If you can get two nuts of the proper size, screw them on to the thread size adapter, then tighten them against each other.
Then use a pair of wrenches, one on the shaft and one on the inner nut. The outer nut will act as a stop for the inner nut, allowing the adapter to be unscrewed from the end of the shaft. Once the adapter is off, you can use the two wrenches to loosen the two nuts and remove them from the adapter.

Good luck.
KWalsh


Christopher Erickson
 

Good grief people.

The counterweight shaft and adapter are stuck together because one or more slivers of aluminum are caught in the threads. The slivers of aluminum came from the old aluminum threaded hole on the original mount counterweight shaft adapter. Aluminum is softer than the stainless steel parts. A vise with wood jaws and a rubber strap wrench will get them apart.

Any competent machine shop can get them apart for you in 3 minutes.

No need to over-think this or over-engineer a solution.

As Roland might say, no need to hunt a red herring down a blind alley with a Howitzer.

-Christopher Erickson
Observatory engineer
Waikoloa, HI 96738
www.summitkinetics.com
   

On Mon, Aug 16, 2021, 5:11 AM Cheng-Yang Tan via groups.io <cytan299=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Unfortunately, it's really, really stuck.

I asked two of my colleagues who are senior techs to help remove the sleeve. These guys work on stainless steel threaded parts all the time and they can't get it off with a blow torch (well, there goes the mica washer) + wrench + elbow grease. It's going on a lathe next to shave off the sleeve.

And about using nuts, they think it's an oddball size so there's no nuts that can fit.

At this point, it's just a point of pride for them to get the sleeve off. But their advice is to get a new CW. Who knows why the CW got stuck in the first place -- it may be a nick on one of the threads or I'm a lot stronger than I think I am :)

I had sprayed on graphite lube on the CW threads before, but clearly that wasn't enough to prevent this.

cytan

On Monday, August 16, 2021, 10:01:33 AM CDT, KLWALSH2061 <kevin.walsh@...> wrote:


If you can get two nuts of the proper size, screw them on to the thread size adapter, then tighten them against each other.
Then use a pair of wrenches, one on the shaft and one on the inner nut. The outer nut will act as a stop for the inner nut, allowing the adapter to be unscrewed from the end of the shaft. Once the adapter is off, you can use the two wrenches to loosen the two nuts and remove them from the adapter.

Good luck.
KWalsh


Cheng-Yang Tan
 

Hi Chris,

The two people working on it have at least 60 to 70 years of working with SS between them.

They first started with what you described. Strapping wrench and vice and nothing moved. 

Then the effort escalated.

Believe you me, I didn't ask novices to work on this.

cytan



On Monday, August 16, 2021, 10:26:15 AM CDT, Christopher Erickson <christopher.k.erickson@...> wrote:


Good grief people.

The counterweight shaft and adapter are stuck together because one or more slivers of aluminum are caught in the threads. The slivers of aluminum came from the old aluminum threaded hole on the original mount counterweight shaft adapter. Aluminum is softer than the stainless steel parts. A vise with wood jaws and a rubber strap wrench will get them apart.

Any competent machine shop can get them apart for you in 3 minutes.

No need to over-think this or over-engineer a solution.

As Roland might say, no need to hunt a red herring down a blind alley with a Howitzer.

-Christopher Erickson
Observatory engineer
Waikoloa, HI 96738
www.summitkinetics.com
   

On Mon, Aug 16, 2021, 5:11 AM Cheng-Yang Tan via groups.io <cytan299=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Unfortunately, it's really, really stuck.

I asked two of my colleagues who are senior techs to help remove the sleeve. These guys work on stainless steel threaded parts all the time and they can't get it off with a blow torch (well, there goes the mica washer) + wrench + elbow grease. It's going on a lathe next to shave off the sleeve.

And about using nuts, they think it's an oddball size so there's no nuts that can fit.

At this point, it's just a point of pride for them to get the sleeve off. But their advice is to get a new CW. Who knows why the CW got stuck in the first place -- it may be a nick on one of the threads or I'm a lot stronger than I think I am :)

I had sprayed on graphite lube on the CW threads before, but clearly that wasn't enough to prevent this.

cytan

On Monday, August 16, 2021, 10:01:33 AM CDT, KLWALSH2061 <kevin.walsh@...> wrote:


If you can get two nuts of the proper size, screw them on to the thread size adapter, then tighten them against each other.
Then use a pair of wrenches, one on the shaft and one on the inner nut. The outer nut will act as a stop for the inner nut, allowing the adapter to be unscrewed from the end of the shaft. Once the adapter is off, you can use the two wrenches to loosen the two nuts and remove them from the adapter.

Good luck.
KWalsh


Klwalsh2061
 

Odd size nuts? Maybe so. 

Try McMaster-Carr. They carry an extremely wide selection of hardware, including large SAE and Metric nuts and bolts. 


J. Belden
 

I had an extremely difficult time getting three extension parts apart(Nightcrawler extensions) but heating, cooling, swearing, strap wrenches, lubricants and etc did not budge. So, I ended up having to dremel cut one of the extension tubes to save the other two, so I know it seems like an over engineered effort but sometimes it just happens. Though, these three parts were AL but SS can be a pain as well when it gets galled.

Joe

Good luck


J. Belden
 

I personally use a little never seize on parts that I don’t want to seize up

Joe


Cheng-Yang Tan
 

Well, the guys got it off by milling the sleeve so that it is thin enough to untwist the sleeve from the shaft. 

Once the sleeve is off, you can see that the threads on the CW shaft are gouged:

Inline image


I had used this spray on the threads to hopefully prevent this problem:



Maybe that's not the type of lube that I should use?

Speaking as a non-mechanical person:

Since both the sleeve and the CW are made of stainless steel (I checked that the sleeve is SS with a magnet), I think there's always a danger of SS on SS gouging. I'm wondering whether the sleeve can be made of brass which is self-lubricating?

cytan

P.S. I'll be ordering a new CW shaft + adapter today ...






On Tuesday, August 17, 2021, 10:09:57 AM CDT, J. Belden via groups.io <jjb4469@...> wrote:


I personally use a little never seize on parts that I don’t want to seize up

Joe