USB 2 VS USB3 problems solved


Woody Schlom
 

Since they generate heat internally, I would think you could place or wrap them in some kind of insulating material when it gets really cold.

Woody

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Mike Dodd
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2021 9:09 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] USB 2 VS USB3 problems solved

On 7/13/2021 12:01 PM, Eric Weiner wrote:
Howdy Mike,

I also use the 3104. I’ve only had it for a little while, but I can
tell you they do run quite warm. The Rex more than the Lex (it draws
more current). I haven’t had them through a winter yet but I imagine
it would need to be quite cold to get them down to 0°.
Thanks, Eric; that's kind of what I expected at USB 3 speeds.
I can measure the Rex
ambient temperature under load if you like.
No, thanks; I'll go with my gut feeling.

Don’t pay $1k. Keep your eye on eBay. I got my set new in a sealed
ICRON box for half that.
Hmmm.... I found only one 3104 on eBay today, and it was $999.

Need to keep searching, I suppose.

--- Mike





Eric Weiner
 

Better than $1000! You have the USB2 version so you’ve probably already figured out the connection idiosyncrasies.

On Jul 13, 2021, at 18:05, Mike Dodd <mike@mdodd.com> wrote:

On 7/13/2021 4:45 PM, Eric Weiner wrote:
Mike, that $999 seller has 2 available and accepts offers. Make an
offer.
He accepted my $800.01 offer, with free shipping. Best I could do on short notice. I'll be a lot more comfortable with that than with two powered USB 3 extension cables.

--- Mike







Mike Dodd
 

On 7/13/2021 4:45 PM, Eric Weiner wrote:
Mike, that $999 seller has 2 available and accepts offers. Make an
offer.
He accepted my $800.01 offer, with free shipping. Best I could do on short notice. I'll be a lot more comfortable with that than with two powered USB 3 extension cables.

--- Mike


Eric Weiner
 

Mike, that $999 seller has 2 available and accepts offers.  Make an offer. They worst he/she can say is "no," or counter offer.  It was a different seller, but they accepted $475 for mine shipped.  


jimwc@...
 

Mike

I live in aridzona my problem is usually the other way "Too hot" right now the nighttime temps only get down to the low 90's.  I have not had any trouble with the 3104 at all.  I have not noticed if they get hot at all. I would think that if you have not had any problem with the 2304 you won't have a problem with the 3104.  yes, they are not cheep but they work well. like you I didn't want to spend $1000+ on a computer you still have to get special cords for all the power etc..  the only thing you need to get is the Ethernet cable I use a 50ft cat7 cable to run into the house, I got mine at   ShowMeCables.com.

hope this helps.

clear sky's

Jim

 

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io On Behalf Of Mike Dodd
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2021 08:53 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] USB 2 VS USB3 problems solved

 

On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 01:34 AM, <jimwc@...> wrote:

...the ICRON Raven 3104 solved my problems. I am sure there is other brands but I can not vouch for them.

Hi, Jim. I'm considering the Raven 3104 because it appears that one of my active (powered) USB 3 extenders is not working correctly (MaxIm sometimes hangs while reading the guide camera).

One thing that bothers me about the Raven 3104 is the minimum operating temperature spec of 0C.  Do you have any experience with yours at cold temps? Do the two boxes get warm during operation, so that cold ambient temperature isn't an issue? I have an Icron Ranger 2304 USB 2 extender with the same spec, and it has worked fine below 0C, so maybe I'm worrying needlessly. OTOH $1,000 is a lot for a USB 3 extender. For that price I could buy a NUC (but I'd rather not).

Thanks for any info on the Raven 3104.

--- Mike

x (x)

 


Mike Dodd
 

On 7/13/2021 12:01 PM, Eric Weiner wrote:
Howdy Mike,

I also use the 3104. I’ve only had it for a little while, but I can tell
you they do run quite warm. The Rex more than the Lex (it draws more
current). I haven’t had them through a winter yet but I imagine it would
need to be quite cold to get them down to 0°.
Thanks, Eric; that's kind of what I expected at USB 3 speeds.
I can measure the Rex
ambient temperature under load if you like.
No, thanks; I'll go with my gut feeling.

Don’t pay $1k. Keep your eye on eBay. I got my set new in a sealed ICRON
box for half that.
Hmmm.... I found only one 3104 on eBay today, and it was $999.

Need to keep searching, I suppose.

--- Mike


Eric Weiner
 

Howdy Mike,

I also use the 3104. I’ve only had it for a little while, but I can tell you they do run quite warm. The Rex more than the Lex (it draws more current). I haven’t had them through a winter yet but I imagine it would need to be quite cold to get them down to 0° I can measure the Rex ambient temperature under load if you like. Like you, I prefer a USB extension over a NUC. The 3104 has worked flawlessly at USB 3 speeds. Don’t pay $1k. Keep your eye on eBay. I got my set new in a sealed ICRON box for half that. The prices are dropping on the 3104 since ICRON released the 3104 Pro. The Pro version doesn’t have any benefit for our use, just improved teleconferencing capability for discrete platforms. 

Cheers,
Eric 


On Jul 13, 2021, at 09:52, Mike Dodd <mike@...> wrote:

On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 01:34 AM, <jimwc@...> wrote:
...the ICRON Raven 3104 solved my problems. I am sure there is other brands but I can not vouch for them.
Hi, Jim. I'm considering the Raven 3104 because it appears that one of my active (powered) USB 3 extenders is not working correctly (MaxIm sometimes hangs while reading the guide camera).

One thing that bothers me about the Raven 3104 is the minimum operating temperature spec of 0C.  Do you have any experience with yours at cold temps? Do the two boxes get warm during operation, so that cold ambient temperature isn't an issue? I have an Icron Ranger 2304 USB 2 extender with the same spec, and it has worked fine below 0C, so maybe I'm worrying needlessly. OTOH $1,000 is a lot for a USB 3 extender. For that price I could buy a NUC (but I'd rather not).

Thanks for any info on the Raven 3104.

--- Mike


x (x)
 


Mike Dodd
 

On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 01:34 AM, <jimwc@...> wrote:
...the ICRON Raven 3104 solved my problems. I am sure there is other brands but I can not vouch for them.
Hi, Jim. I'm considering the Raven 3104 because it appears that one of my active (powered) USB 3 extenders is not working correctly (MaxIm sometimes hangs while reading the guide camera).

One thing that bothers me about the Raven 3104 is the minimum operating temperature spec of 0C.  Do you have any experience with yours at cold temps? Do the two boxes get warm during operation, so that cold ambient temperature isn't an issue? I have an Icron Ranger 2304 USB 2 extender with the same spec, and it has worked fine below 0C, so maybe I'm worrying needlessly. OTOH $1,000 is a lot for a USB 3 extender. For that price I could buy a NUC (but I'd rather not).

Thanks for any info on the Raven 3104.

--- Mike


x (x)
 


Woody Schlom
 

Jim,

 

I think that running USB2 and USB3 devices on the same hub is OK if it’s a “good” hub with each port being independent. 

 

My understanding is that cheaper hubs share USB ports between USB amplifiers.  “USB amplifiers” is probably the wrong term – but I’m talking about the circuit board that’s connected to the port.  Cheaper hubs share two, three, even four ports between the same “amplifier.”  And those are the ones that slow down to USB2 if there’s a USB2 device connected to any of the shared ports.

 

The better (usually more expensive) hubs have a separate and independent “amplifier” for each USB port.  So you can run a combination of USB2 and USB3 devices on the same hub and they’ll all run at top speed.  At least that’s what I’ve been told.

 

Same goes for USB power.  The cheaper ones share power between ports, while the better ones power each port independently.

 

My Pegasus brand powered USB3 hub has seven ports.  Each port has its own amplifier and its own circuit breaker.  I can run USB2 and USB3 devices at the same time, all at top speed.  And if a port dies or blows its circuit breaker, all the rest of the ports still work.  Basically, all its ports are independent.  With some (many) 4-port hubs, all the ports are connected together.  Blow one and none work.

 

Personally I like the idea of using Ethernet instead of USB.  But if your device only has USB, then adding the Ethernet converter means another connection and another device you’ll have in your system.  Which means more potential failure points.  But I still like that idea.

 

Woody

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of jimwc@...
Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2021 9:45 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: [ap-gto] USB 2 VS USB3 problems solved

 

I am still waiting on my Mach 2 but I thought I would chime in on how I solved my USB problems.
Right now I have a Celestron CGX mount I had nothing but trouble getting my mount to talk to my computer over a extended USB3 of about 30 feet using a powered USB3 hub.


I found that most mounts, focuser adapters etc. use USB2 where Cameras use USB3 because of band width. simply put
USB3 caries more data. I have heard (not Confirmed) that if you use a USB2 and USB3 over a USB3 hub it drags the USB3 down to a USB2 level.
also on some laptop computers USB 2 and USB3 inputs use the same controller per side of the computer so if you plug a USB2 and a USB3 on the same side it drags the USB3 down. 

My solution is use a Ethernet adapter ICRON makes two versions one is USB2 and one is USB3 I chose the USB3 because the Computer end (RCV) has a USB3 output,
and my computer has only USB3 inputs (that's the way all computers are going). It also will accept USB2 inputs to the Mount end (TX) with no problem.
they say that the max cable length between the TX end and RCV end is ~300 feet.
the ICRON Raven 3104 solved my problems. I am sure there is other brands but I can not vouch for them.
Jim


.


jimwc@...
 

I am still waiting on my Mach 2 but I thought I would chime in on how I solved my USB problems.
Right now I have a Celestron CGX mount I had nothing but trouble getting my mount to talk to my computer over a extended USB3 of about 30 feet using a powered USB3 hub.


I found that most mounts, focuser adapters etc. use USB2 where Cameras use USB3 because of band width. simply put
USB3 caries more data. I have heard (not Confirmed) that if you use a USB2 and USB3 over a USB3 hub it drags the USB3 down to a USB2 level.
also on some laptop computers USB 2 and USB3 inputs use the same controller per side of the computer so if you plug a USB2 and a USB3 on the same side it drags the USB3 down. 

My solution is use a Ethernet adapter ICRON makes two versions one is USB2 and one is USB3 I chose the USB3 because the Computer end (RCV) has a USB3 output,
and my computer has only USB3 inputs (that's the way all computers are going). It also will accept USB2 inputs to the Mount end (TX) with no problem.
they say that the max cable length between the TX end and RCV end is ~300 feet.
the ICRON Raven 3104 solved my problems. I am sure there is other brands but I can not vouch for them.
Jim


.