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ETA on ASTAP Native?

Bill Long
 

Really getting tired of dealing with SkyX for plate solving, it is a really poor experience, as you get into 0.6" - 0.4"/px imaging. Meanwhile ASTAP works excellent. I have resorted to using SGP as a middle man to allow ASTAP to work with APPM.

Can we please get a timeline on native ASTAP support?

Thanks,
Bill 
Ray Gralak
 

Hi Bill,

I'm testing with ASTAP, but I don't have a completion date because there are too many other variables in my day-to-day stuff.

Have you compared the accuracy of ASTAP to SkyX plate solving? ASTAP seems to be less accurate, especially if there are lens
distortions. Unlike SkyX and PinPoint, ASTAP does not handle high-order distortions even if they are small. If plate-solving is
less accurate, unguided imaging quality may suffer.

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Long
Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2021 11:43 PM
To: AP-GTO Groups.io
Subject: [ap-gto] ETA on ASTAP Native?

Really getting tired of dealing with SkyX for plate solving, it is a really poor experience, as you get into 0.6" - 0.4"/px
imaging. Meanwhile ASTAP works excellent. I have resorted to using SGP as a middle man to allow ASTAP to work
with APPM.

Can we please get a timeline on native ASTAP support?

Thanks,
Bill
Bill Long
 

SkyX does some really odd things that you cannot control well. 

Last night, for example, at an agressive imaging scale of 0.46"/px it continually cropped the image 25% yet there was nowhere I could find a setting at all in Image Link to stop that. It completely prevented any usage of APPM at all with that one factor. 

I hooked up SGP, and it can use ASTAP.  You know what did not happen? I did not have to turn off APCC Alt and Az model data for Polar Alignment. It worked as it should have. The previous models were all SkyX and I had to turn that off to do unguided imaging like I emailed you about. So there is that.

So if I were to give a one night (or one week as it were) vs the other experience in unguided imaging, I would actually say ASTAP solving worked better. Not worse. 

Bill

PS -- I can send cookies and coffee if it helps. 🙂 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <iogroups@...>
Sent: Monday, April 19, 2021 7:02 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] ETA on ASTAP Native?
 
Hi Bill,

I'm testing with ASTAP, but I don't have a completion date because there are too many other variables in my day-to-day stuff.

Have you compared the accuracy of ASTAP to SkyX plate solving? ASTAP seems to be less accurate, especially if there are lens
distortions.  Unlike SkyX and PinPoint, ASTAP does not handle high-order distortions even if they are small. If plate-solving is
less accurate, unguided imaging quality may suffer.

-Ray

> -----Original Message-----
> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Long
> Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2021 11:43 PM
> To: AP-GTO Groups.io
> Subject: [ap-gto] ETA on ASTAP Native?
>
> Really getting tired of dealing with SkyX for plate solving, it is a really poor experience, as you get into 0.6" - 0.4"/px
> imaging. Meanwhile ASTAP works excellent. I have resorted to using SGP as a middle man to allow ASTAP to work
> with APPM.
>
> Can we please get a timeline on native ASTAP support?
>
> Thanks,
> Bill
>






Bill Long
 

Also!

I tried to install PinPoint as it has a trial. Yeah good luck with that. The UI is from Windows 95 and the links it offers to help you set it up with catalogs and whatnot? Nothing but 404 Not found errors. Completely horrid experience. 

Getting ASTAP added is not just a user preference. The other options barely even work right, or not at all. 

From: Bill Long <bill@...>
Sent: Monday, April 19, 2021 7:10 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] ETA on ASTAP Native?
 
SkyX does some really odd things that you cannot control well. 

Last night, for example, at an agressive imaging scale of 0.46"/px it continually cropped the image 25% yet there was nowhere I could find a setting at all in Image Link to stop that. It completely prevented any usage of APPM at all with that one factor. 

I hooked up SGP, and it can use ASTAP.  You know what did not happen? I did not have to turn off APCC Alt and Az model data for Polar Alignment. It worked as it should have. The previous models were all SkyX and I had to turn that off to do unguided imaging like I emailed you about. So there is that.

So if I were to give a one night (or one week as it were) vs the other experience in unguided imaging, I would actually say ASTAP solving worked better. Not worse. 

Bill

PS -- I can send cookies and coffee if it helps. 🙂 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <iogroups@...>
Sent: Monday, April 19, 2021 7:02 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] ETA on ASTAP Native?
 
Hi Bill,

I'm testing with ASTAP, but I don't have a completion date because there are too many other variables in my day-to-day stuff.

Have you compared the accuracy of ASTAP to SkyX plate solving? ASTAP seems to be less accurate, especially if there are lens
distortions.  Unlike SkyX and PinPoint, ASTAP does not handle high-order distortions even if they are small. If plate-solving is
less accurate, unguided imaging quality may suffer.

-Ray

> -----Original Message-----
> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Long
> Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2021 11:43 PM
> To: AP-GTO Groups.io
> Subject: [ap-gto] ETA on ASTAP Native?
>
> Really getting tired of dealing with SkyX for plate solving, it is a really poor experience, as you get into 0.6" - 0.4"/px
> imaging. Meanwhile ASTAP works excellent. I have resorted to using SGP as a middle man to allow ASTAP to work
> with APPM.
>
> Can we please get a timeline on native ASTAP support?
>
> Thanks,
> Bill
>






Edward Beshore
 

Hi Bill

I have just been pretty successful at using TheSky for astrometry in a variety of setups, including imaging scales of 0.39"/pix.

I find this in TheSkyX manual which might be helpful..

"Check the All Sky Image Link Crop Options
For photos acquired with a camera that has more than 2500 pixels in one dimension, to speed searches, All Sky Image Link automatically crops the photo (see the All Sky Image Link Crop Settings under “Advanced Preferences” on page 226 to configure this option).If a photo acquired with a large format camera has few stars in it, or a very poor signal to noise ratio, the All Sky Image Link crop process can result in "not enough stars" being found.If your camera has more than 2500 pixels in either dimension, and All Sky Image Link fails, increase the default crop size to 80 percent or so and try All Sky Image Link again."

If you are by default using All Sky Image link, this could be the source of your problem. (If so, I presume you have downloaded the large sky database that TheSky uses for plate solving All Sky Image link images...) On the other hand, if your RA and DEC are approximately correct, and the OBJCTRA and OBJCTDEC keywords are being placed in your FITS header, then TheSky should default to normal ImageLink operation. That given, there are still a number of ways one can get foiled with astrometry, and it may make some sense to spend a bit of time solving your images manually with ImageLink to get the solve parameters right for your imaging setup.

If you would want to share one of your images, I would be happy to take a look at it.

Cheers, Ed Beshore 
Bill Long
 

I looked all over for that setting. Where is it?

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Edward Beshore via groups.io <ebeshore@...>
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2021 6:24 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] ETA on ASTAP Native?
 
Hi Bill

I have just been pretty successful at using TheSky for astrometry in a variety of setups, including imaging scales of 0.39"/pix.

I find this in TheSkyX manual which might be helpful..

"Check the All Sky Image Link Crop Options
For photos acquired with a camera that has more than 2500 pixels in one dimension, to speed searches, All Sky Image Link automatically crops the photo (see the All Sky Image Link Crop Settings under “Advanced Preferences” on page 226 to configure this option).If a photo acquired with a large format camera has few stars in it, or a very poor signal to noise ratio, the All Sky Image Link crop process can result in "not enough stars" being found.If your camera has more than 2500 pixels in either dimension, and All Sky Image Link fails, increase the default crop size to 80 percent or so and try All Sky Image Link again."

If you are by default using All Sky Image link, this could be the source of your problem. (If so, I presume you have downloaded the large sky database that TheSky uses for plate solving All Sky Image link images...) On the other hand, if your RA and DEC are approximately correct, and the OBJCTRA and OBJCTDEC keywords are being placed in your FITS header, then TheSky should default to normal ImageLink operation. That given, there are still a number of ways one can get foiled with astrometry, and it may make some sense to spend a bit of time solving your images manually with ImageLink to get the solve parameters right for your imaging setup.

If you would want to share one of your images, I would be happy to take a look at it.

Cheers, Ed Beshore 
Edward Beshore
 

Edit -> Preferences, down at the bottom of the dialog. Strange place to put this control...
Bill Long
 

Ahhh yes, I was looking in image link for the image link settings. How silly of me. 😂

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Edward Beshore via groups.io <ebeshore@...>
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2021 3:17 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] ETA on ASTAP Native?
 
Edit -> Preferences, down at the bottom of the dialog. Strange place to put this control...

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