Going Unguided With a Long FL Scope?


Tony Benjamin
 

Hi,

I've been putting together my imaging train for my C11 and have hit a snag. The QHYOAG will be hitting the back of the LiteCrawler using the backfocus of the 146mm. I can't see anyway around this except for:

  • a guidescope (flexure issue;
  • a new camera with minimal backfocus (the ML16200 I'm using eats up 21mm - maybe the ASI6200??); or
  • go unguided.
So far, going unguided seems to be the most reasonable solution. Question is...at 2800mm and with AE's...can I expect to go 10 min or longer unguided with AE's and a good pointing model??


Steven
 

Hey Tony,

If you want to go unguided, try ATrack, get in touch with Craig Young on this forum for details. It works a treat! Doesn't use a guidescope or guider, easy as pie and VERY accurate!

Steve


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Tony Benjamin <tonybenjamin@...>
Sent: Friday, 12 June 2020 12:18 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: [ap-gto] Going Unguided With a Long FL Scope?
 
Hi,

I've been putting together my imaging train for my C11 and have hit a snag. The QHYOAG will be hitting the back of the LiteCrawler using the backfocus of the 146mm. I can't see anyway around this except for:

  • a guidescope (flexure issue;
  • a new camera with minimal backfocus (the ML16200 I'm using eats up 21mm - maybe the ASI6200??); or
  • go unguided.
So far, going unguided seems to be the most reasonable solution. Question is...at 2800mm and with AE's...can I expect to go 10 min or longer unguided with AE's and a good pointing model??


Tony Benjamin
 

Hi,

 

Can’t find anything online about it. Do you have a link?

 

Tony

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steven Steven
Sent: June 11, 2020 10:11 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Going Unguided With a Long FL Scope?

 

Hey Tony,

 

If you want to go unguided, try ATrack, get in touch with Craig Young on this forum for details. It works a treat! Doesn't use a guidescope or guider, easy as pie and VERY accurate!

 

Steve

 


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Tony Benjamin <tonybenjamin@...>
Sent: Friday, 12 June 2020 12:18 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: [ap-gto] Going Unguided With a Long FL Scope?

 

Hi,

I've been putting together my imaging train for my C11 and have hit a snag. The QHYOAG will be hitting the back of the LiteCrawler using the backfocus of the 146mm. I can't see anyway around this except for:

  • a guidescope (flexure issue;
  • a new camera with minimal backfocus (the ML16200 I'm using eats up 21mm - maybe the ASI6200??); or
  • go unguided.

So far, going unguided seems to be the most reasonable solution. Question is...at 2800mm and with AE's...can I expect to go 10 min or longer unguided with AE's and a good pointing model??


Roland Christen
 


can I expect to go 10 min or longer unguided with AE's and a good pointing model??
As long as your mirror doesn't flop, I believe 10 minutes will work ok. If you have any random flexure in the optical train, it may not work.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Benjamin <tonybenjamin@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jun 11, 2020 11:18 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] Going Unguided With a Long FL Scope?

Hi,

I've been putting together my imaging train for my C11 and have hit a snag. The QHYOAG will be hitting the back of the LiteCrawler using the backfocus of the 146mm. I can't see anyway around this except for:

  • a guidescope (flexure issue;
  • a new camera with minimal backfocus (the ML16200 I'm using eats up 21mm - maybe the ASI6200??); or
  • go unguided.
So far, going unguided seems to be the most reasonable solution. Question is...at 2800mm and with AE's...can I expect to go 10 min or longer unguided with AE's and a good pointing model??


Steven
 

HI Tony,

Get Craig on:

craig.young.m8@...

and send me a private email and I'll send you the User Guide, or Craig would likely gladly send it. A very helpful guy.

KR

Steve


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Tony Benjamin <tonybenjamin@...>
Sent: Friday, 12 June 2020 1:19 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Going Unguided With a Long FL Scope?
 

Hi,

 

Can’t find anything online about it. Do you have a link?

 

Tony

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steven Steven
Sent: June 11, 2020 10:11 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Going Unguided With a Long FL Scope?

 

Hey Tony,

 

If you want to go unguided, try ATrack, get in touch with Craig Young on this forum for details. It works a treat! Doesn't use a guidescope or guider, easy as pie and VERY accurate!

 

Steve

 


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Tony Benjamin <tonybenjamin@...>
Sent: Friday, 12 June 2020 12:18 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: [ap-gto] Going Unguided With a Long FL Scope?

 

Hi,

I've been putting together my imaging train for my C11 and have hit a snag. The QHYOAG will be hitting the back of the LiteCrawler using the backfocus of the 146mm. I can't see anyway around this except for:

  • a guidescope (flexure issue;
  • a new camera with minimal backfocus (the ML16200 I'm using eats up 21mm - maybe the ASI6200??); or
  • go unguided.

So far, going unguided seems to be the most reasonable solution. Question is...at 2800mm and with AE's...can I expect to go 10 min or longer unguided with AE's and a good pointing model??


 

>>> .can I expect to go 10 min or longer unguided with AE's and a good pointing model??


i thought AP mount + AE + unguided + good pointing model = APCC



On Thu, Jun 11, 2020 at 10:11 PM Steven Steven <steven447@...> wrote:
Hey Tony,

If you want to go unguided, try ATrack, get in touch with Craig Young on this forum for details. It works a treat! Doesn't use a guidescope or guider, easy as pie and VERY accurate!

Steve


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Tony Benjamin <tonybenjamin@...>
Sent: Friday, 12 June 2020 12:18 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: [ap-gto] Going Unguided With a Long FL Scope?
 
Hi,

I've been putting together my imaging train for my C11 and have hit a snag. The QHYOAG will be hitting the back of the LiteCrawler using the backfocus of the 146mm. I can't see anyway around this except for:

  • a guidescope (flexure issue;
  • a new camera with minimal backfocus (the ML16200 I'm using eats up 21mm - maybe the ASI6200??); or
  • go unguided.
So far, going unguided seems to be the most reasonable solution. Question is...at 2800mm and with AE's...can I expect to go 10 min or longer unguided with AE's and a good pointing model??



--
Brian 



Brian Valente


Mike Dodd
 

On 6/12/2020 12:18 AM, Tony Benjamin wrote:
* a guidescope (flexure issue)
I recommend that you seriously consider a separate guide scope, and do everything you can to minimize flexure.

I use a 300mm f/5 guide scope with ST-402 camera on a dovetail plate adjacent to my 30mm f/7 OTA. Initially I experienced some flexure, but got it under control. This link: <http://astronomy.mdodd.com/flexure.html#FlexureTable> describes what I did.

And this image: <http://astronomy.mdodd.com/flexure.html#GoodNews> is a 30-minute guided image that exhibits no flexure. I'm very pleased that my efforts paid off.

* a new camera with minimal backfocus (the ML16200 I'm using eats up
21mm - maybe the ASI6200??)
Will your C11 fully illuminate the full-frame sensor in the ASI6200? I definitely would confirm that before investing in a new camera.

--
Mike

Mike Dodd
Louisa County, Virginia USA
http://astronomy.mdodd.com


Worsel
 
Edited

Tony

I have been able to un-guided at least up to 15m with the following.  I have not gone beyond that...do not expect to need to.

A-P 1100 / CP4  (non-AE, no HC)
APCC Pro / SGP / APPM Pointing and Tracking models (150 points)
14.5" AGOptical Corrected Dall-Kirkham...f.l. = 2500
Canon 6D full frame (Image scale = 0.55"/pxl)

Median Eccentricity (using PixInsight) across one image was 0.4552 - guided and 0.4921 - unguided
Median FWHM = 5.1 - guided and 7.4 - unguided

It took effort to move up the learning curve on the software.  Getting a good PE curve was also important.

Bryan


 

On 6/12/20 9:26 AM, Mike Dodd wrote:
I use a 300mm f/5 guide scope with ST-402 camera on a dovetail plate adjacent to my 30mm f/7 OTA
I'm impressed! Your guide scope is ten times the aperture of your imaging scope!  I'm sure you meant something different. :)

Mojo


Mike Dodd
 

On 6/12/2020 10:03 PM, Mojo Jones wrote:
On 6/12/20 9:26 AM, Mike Dodd wrote:
I use a 300mm f/5 guide scope with ST-402 camera on a dovetail plate
adjacent to my 30mm f/7 OTA
I'm impressed! Your guide scope is ten times the aperture of your
imaging scope! I'm sure you meant something different. :)
Awk! I can't type any more, and apparently I can't proofread either. The diminished typing ability is due to a 2007 stroke, so I usually proofread things three times to compensate. Missed big-time today!

My guide scope is 60mm aperture @ f/5, and the imaging scope is 130mm @ f/7.

Thanks for the heads-up.

--
Mike

Mike Dodd
Louisa County, Virginia USA
http://astronomy.mdodd.com


Tony Benjamin
 

Hehe,

Yeah...I was wondering about a 130 mm guide scope :) Sorry about the stroke - good to see your still at it!

In the end I went and ordered an Optec TCF-Leo which should allow me to use an OAG with the C11 Edge - if I want too.


Tony

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mike Dodd
Sent: June 12, 2020 7:34 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Going Unguided With a Long FL Scope?

On 6/12/2020 10:03 PM, Mojo Jones wrote:
On 6/12/20 9:26 AM, Mike Dodd wrote:
I use a 300mm f/5 guide scope with ST-402 camera on a dovetail plate
adjacent to my 30mm f/7 OTA
I'm impressed! Your guide scope is ten times the aperture of your
imaging scope! I'm sure you meant something different. :)
Awk! I can't type any more, and apparently I can't proofread either. The diminished typing ability is due to a 2007 stroke, so I usually proofread things three times to compensate. Missed big-time today!

My guide scope is 60mm aperture @ f/5, and the imaging scope is 130mm @ f/7.

Thanks for the heads-up.

--
Mike

Mike Dodd
Louisa County, Virginia USA
http://astronomy.mdodd.com


Mike Dodd
 

You've accomplished a remarkable recovery. :)
Sorry about the stroke - good to see your still at it!
The interesting thing is, the scope arrived while I was in the rehab hospital, so one of the first things I did after coming home was to install it on the AP1200 with the help of my wife and daughter. It was a bit scary mounting a 130mm APO with only one good arm and hand!

I've recovered about 95% of my left-side functionality.

Thanks for the good wishes, fellas.

--- Mike