Date
1 - 20 of 110
Mach2 Unguided testing continues
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Roland Christen
hello Astronuts,
We are getting about 1 day for every 7 when the skies clear enough for me to do final keypad testing. The keypad has two methods of modeling that allows unguided imaging. The first one does a limited pointing model along the path that the image will take during the night. The second method simply measures the drift rate of a star at or near the object to be imaged. This second method is what I did last night. For most applications one needs only to take a short drift measurement of any star in a frame at maybe 2 to 4 points along the path that the image will follow. One point every 1 to 2 hours RA along the path will produce a very accurate model for drift.
Below is a 15 minute UNGUIDED exposure I took
last night with the Mach2 mount, purposely NOT polar aligned, off to the point
where RA and Dec were drifting at 16 arc sec/hr and 88arcsec/hr
respectively. I took a single 5 min drift measurement at the beginning
of the exposure and used that to set the custom tracking rates for the
axes (all done automatically in the keypad). It was good for the next hour of unguided imaging. A second and
third drift measurement was added for 3 more hours, but clouds moved in.
With
a good model the accuracy is better, in my opinion, than guiding with
PHD2 or MaximDL. There is no jumping around, back and forth pushing and
pulling of the axes according to momentary guide star positions and sky
scintillation. It's a smooth motion, very accurate tracking under
precise encoder control. This is with a 160EDF refractor of 1200mm focal
length at .9 arc sec per pixel image scale.
The drift model resides in the mount controller, so actually doesn't need a laptop to store the data. The drift measurement can be done with a consumer digital camera, and then that camera can be used all night to gather images without ever having any guider attached.
Roland
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Cheng-Yang Tan
Hi Rolando, Very impressive! I don't have the Mach2 yet ... but I assume the update will also work with my Mach1GTO and AP1100AE? Looking forward to unmothballing my keypad :) cytan
On Wednesday, May 27, 2020, 03:15:51 PM CDT, uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011@...> wrote:
hello Astronuts,
We are getting about 1 day for every 7 when the skies clear enough for me to do final keypad testing. The keypad has two methods of modeling that allows unguided imaging. The first one does a limited pointing model along the path that the image will take during the night. The second method simply measures the drift rate of a star at or near the object to be imaged. This second method is what I did last night. For most applications one needs only to take a short drift measurement of any star in a frame at maybe 2 to 4 points along the path that the image will follow. One point every 1 to 2 hours RA along the path will produce a very accurate model for drift.
Below is a 15 minute UNGUIDED exposure I took
last night with the Mach2 mount, purposely NOT polar aligned, off to the point
where RA and Dec were drifting at 16 arc sec/hr and 88arcsec/hr
respectively. I took a single 5 min drift measurement at the beginning
of the exposure and used that to set the custom tracking rates for the
axes (all done automatically in the keypad). It was good for the next hour of unguided imaging. A second and
third drift measurement was added for 3 more hours, but clouds moved in.
With
a good model the accuracy is better, in my opinion, than guiding with
PHD2 or MaximDL. There is no jumping around, back and forth pushing and
pulling of the axes according to momentary guide star positions and sky
scintillation. It's a smooth motion, very accurate tracking under
precise encoder control. This is with a 160EDF refractor of 1200mm focal
length at .9 arc sec per pixel image scale.
The drift model resides in the mount controller, so actually doesn't need a laptop to store the data. The drift measurement can be done with a consumer digital camera, and then that camera can be used all night to gather images without ever having any guider attached.
Roland
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Roland Christen
The apps require a CP4. That's where the memory space is that is needed for modeling.
Rolando
-----Original Message-----
From: Cheng-Yang Tan via groups.io <cytan299@...> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>; main@ap-ug.groups.io <main@ap-ug.groups.io> Sent: Wed, May 27, 2020 3:29 pm Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues Hi Rolando,
Very impressive! I don't have the Mach2 yet ... but I assume the update will also work with my Mach1GTO and AP1100AE?
Looking forward to unmothballing my keypad :)
cytan
On Wednesday, May 27, 2020, 03:15:51 PM CDT, uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011@...> wrote:
hello Astronuts,
We are getting about 1 day for every 7 when the skies clear enough for me to do final keypad testing. The keypad has two methods of modeling that allows unguided imaging. The first one does a limited pointing model along the path that the image will take during the night. The second method simply measures the drift rate of a star at or near the object to be imaged. This second method is what I did last night. For most applications one needs only to take a short drift measurement of any star in a frame at maybe 2 to 4 points along the path that the image will follow. One point every 1 to 2 hours RA along the path will produce a very accurate model for drift.
Below is a 15 minute UNGUIDED exposure I took
last night with the Mach2 mount, purposely NOT polar aligned, off to the point
where RA and Dec were drifting at 16 arc sec/hr and 88arcsec/hr
respectively. I took a single 5 min drift measurement at the beginning
of the exposure and used that to set the custom tracking rates for the
axes (all done automatically in the keypad). It was good for the next hour of unguided imaging. A second and
third drift measurement was added for 3 more hours, but clouds moved in.
With
a good model the accuracy is better, in my opinion, than guiding with
PHD2 or MaximDL. There is no jumping around, back and forth pushing and
pulling of the axes according to momentary guide star positions and sky
scintillation. It's a smooth motion, very accurate tracking under
precise encoder control. This is with a 160EDF refractor of 1200mm focal
length at .9 arc sec per pixel image scale.
The drift model resides in the mount controller, so actually doesn't need a laptop to store the data. The drift measurement can be done with a consumer digital camera, and then that camera can be used all night to gather images without ever having any guider attached.
Roland
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Cheng-Yang Tan
I have CP4's on both, so I guess I'm good to go once the firmware update is available. cytan
On Wednesday, May 27, 2020, 03:32:14 PM CDT, uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011@...> wrote:
The apps require a CP4. That's where the memory space is that is needed for modeling.
Rolando
-----Original Message-----
From: Cheng-Yang Tan via groups.io <cytan299@...> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>; main@ap-ug.groups.io <main@ap-ug.groups.io> Sent: Wed, May 27, 2020 3:29 pm Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues Hi Rolando,
Very impressive! I don't have the Mach2 yet ... but I assume the update will also work with my Mach1GTO and AP1100AE?
Looking forward to unmothballing my keypad :)
cytan
On Wednesday, May 27, 2020, 03:15:51 PM CDT, uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011@...> wrote:
hello Astronuts,
We are getting about 1 day for every 7 when the skies clear enough for me to do final keypad testing. The keypad has two methods of modeling that allows unguided imaging. The first one does a limited pointing model along the path that the image will take during the night. The second method simply measures the drift rate of a star at or near the object to be imaged. This second method is what I did last night. For most applications one needs only to take a short drift measurement of any star in a frame at maybe 2 to 4 points along the path that the image will follow. One point every 1 to 2 hours RA along the path will produce a very accurate model for drift.
Below is a 15 minute UNGUIDED exposure I took
last night with the Mach2 mount, purposely NOT polar aligned, off to the point
where RA and Dec were drifting at 16 arc sec/hr and 88arcsec/hr
respectively. I took a single 5 min drift measurement at the beginning
of the exposure and used that to set the custom tracking rates for the
axes (all done automatically in the keypad). It was good for the next hour of unguided imaging. A second and
third drift measurement was added for 3 more hours, but clouds moved in.
With
a good model the accuracy is better, in my opinion, than guiding with
PHD2 or MaximDL. There is no jumping around, back and forth pushing and
pulling of the axes according to momentary guide star positions and sky
scintillation. It's a smooth motion, very accurate tracking under
precise encoder control. This is with a 160EDF refractor of 1200mm focal
length at .9 arc sec per pixel image scale.
The drift model resides in the mount controller, so actually doesn't need a laptop to store the data. The drift measurement can be done with a consumer digital camera, and then that camera can be used all night to gather images without ever having any guider attached.
Roland
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Max Mirot
This is great Roland.
Can either function be used by outside programs such as SGP and Voyager? I had an ASA mount that had a similar function to method 1. It worked great but was not compatible with other automation packages other than ASA's. I can't wait to try method 2 Max |
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Worsel
Roland
Encoders are NOT required then...just a CP4 with updated firmware. I recognize this is not yet available. I also recall an earlier thread indicating the APCC Pro would be able to do the same, if a hand controller is not used. Bryan |
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Roland Christen
It's called APCC Pro. ;^))
Rolando
-----Original Message-----
From: Max Mirot via groups.io <titansmoons@...> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io Sent: Wed, May 27, 2020 6:38 pm Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues This is great Roland.
Can either function be used by outside programs such as SGP and Voyager? I had an ASA mount that had a similar function to method 1. It worked great but was not compatible with other automation packages other than ASA's. I can't wait to try method 2 Max |
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Joseph Beyer
And it works very well on my 2017 vintage MachI. So well in fact, I'm done with guiding! On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 5:25 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
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Roland Christen
Yes, this is a hand controller routine.
Rolando
-----Original Message-----
From: Worsel via groups.io <bryancashion@...> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io Sent: Wed, May 27, 2020 7:04 pm Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues Roland
Encoders are NOT required then...just a CP4 with updated firmware. I recognize this is not yet available. I also recall an earlier thread indicating the APCC Pro would be able to do the same, if a hand controller is not used. Bryan |
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Roland Christen
Beautiful!
Rolando
-----Original Message-----
From: Joseph Beyer <jcbeyer2001@...> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io Sent: Wed, May 27, 2020 7:27 pm Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues And it works very well on my 2017 vintage MachI. So well in fact, I'm done with guiding!
On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 5:25 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
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Bruce Donzanti
Roland My CP4 is about 8 ft above my laptop desk in my observatory. So, not sure the hand controller will reach that far down and I do not want to purchase APCC. Does that mean I am out of luck or is there an app just to mimic the hand controller routine from the CP4 to the laptop? Bruce On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 8:29 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
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One solution to your short hand controller cord is to get an extension from AP. I have one I got about 10 years ago that adds 25' extension to the hand controller. It has the matching male and female connectors to the hand controller and CP 3 or CP4 boxes. As I recall you could get them in any length up to a max of something like 50'. Once running for my astro imaging, I don't even use the hand controller but there are times I do use it such as for video images to a crowd for public outreach when the hand controller has some advantages over running from a computer.
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Roland Christen
It's a keypad routine. We spent a great deal of time developing this program for the keypad. I can't even count the number of hours that the three of us put into development (Charles - keypad software, Mike - CP4/5 software, and me the conductor of it all).
Rolando
-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti <donza2735@...> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io Sent: Wed, May 27, 2020 7:42 pm Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues Roland
My CP4 is about 8 ft above my laptop desk in my observatory. So, not sure the hand controller will reach that far down and I do not want to purchase APCC. Does that mean I am out of luck or is there an app just to mimic the hand controller routine from the CP4 to the laptop?
Bruce
On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 8:29 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
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Bruce Donzanti
ok- I don't doubt that; your efforts and ingenuity is greatly appreciated; no reason to get snippy; a simple no would have sufficed to someone who bought two of your mounts or the suggestion that Robert presented to me about an extension to the keypad On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 9:01 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
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Roland Christen
It wasn't meant that way, and i apologize if it came across that way. This routine requires the keypad and cannot be easily done any other way. It would probably take me another year to turn it into something that could be used on a laptop or other device. And I don't have that much life left in me anymore ;^))
Rolando
-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti <donza2735@...> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io Sent: Wed, May 27, 2020 8:05 pm Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues ok- I don't doubt that; your efforts and ingenuity is greatly appreciated; no reason to get snippy; a simple no would have sufficed to someone who bought two of your mounts or the suggestion that Robert presented to me about an extension to the keypad
On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 9:01 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
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Bruce Donzanti
Understood and I appreciate the apology. I look forward to learning more about this as I prefer to abandon my finicky PHD guiding.
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On May 27, 2020, at 9:12 PM, uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011@...> wrote:
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Roland Christen
I did a bunch of testing this spring with my 175 refractor/1600AE mount in our Hawaii observatory. Was able to get easily 20 minute exposures for many hours on the same object until it went too low in the west. never got around to processing them since my goal was not pretty images but data on tracking accuracy, etc. I also did some preliminary work last year at the AP observatory with my 17" astrograph and 1600AE mount.
So yes, the program will work with any of our mounts, not just the Mach2.
Rolando
-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti <donza2735@...> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io Sent: Wed, May 27, 2020 8:22 pm Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues Understood and I appreciate the apology. I look forward to learning more about this as I prefer to abandon my finicky PHD guiding.
On May 27, 2020, at 9:12 PM, uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011@...> wrote:
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Bruce Donzanti
Thank you/ good to know it will work on my AP1100 and Mach 1
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Appreciate the follow up information On May 27, 2020, at 9:35 PM, uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011@...> wrote:
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Donald Rudny
Hi All,
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After following this thread, I am still unsure of how this is done. Sounds like a revolutionary system. I have an AP1100 with CP4, so I think I just need to upgrade the CP4 firmware and buy an upgraded keypad. It sounds like there needs to be a camera input. How is that done? I didn’t think there was any input into the keypad for a camera input. Is APCC involved at all? Hope someone can explain in simple terms. Thanks Don Don Rudny On May 27, 2020, at 4:01 PM, Bruce Donzanti <donza2735@...> wrote:
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Michael Hambrick <mike.hambrick@...>
Good questions Don. You and I have similar
circumstances.
I have an 1100 GTO with a CP4 and Keypad (both purchased in March, 2017), but the software has never been upgraded in either. I am not even sure what version is in the CP4. The instruction manual states that I will be notified by email when software updates are available, but in the time I have owned this mount I have never received any such notifications. The Keypad still has software version 4.19.2 that came with it. Is it correct to assume that my existing keypad will work ? Best Regards Michael Hambrick ARLANXEO TSR Global Manufacturing Support PO Box 2000 Orange, TX 77631-2000 Phone: +1 (409) 882-2799 email: mike.hambrick@... |
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