Topics

Mach2 power consumption #Mach2GTO


Christopher Erickson
 

Actually ALL of the power consumed eventually is released as heat. Since energy can't be created or destroyed. Energy and mass can be converted but not created or destroyed.

If your power supply is feeding 100.000 watts to your system, 100.000 watts of heat is ultimately radiated from that system, at different points. Some from the power supply, some from the wires, some from the motors, some from the electronics, some from lights, etc.

Energy is always a net sum game. Always flowing from a high side to a low side. Disregarding the comparatively-trivial amount of heat generated in the core of the earth by nuclear fission of heavy metals, the earth radiates exactly as much energy back into space as it receives from the sun (and that core fission.) If it did not, it would be a planetary disaster.

On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 5:43 AM Rodolphe <rodolgo@...> wrote:
I guess you mean 5 to 20% of the consumption is generated by the PS as heat anyways, depending on the PS efficiency.
The remaining 80 to 95% is used by the consumer, ie the powered device including the power line, which will transform it into mechanical power, and a bit into heat as well.
Correct?


Dean Jacobsen
 

My solution has been to power everything with 12v.  The mount works fine and slews at up to 1200x with 12v - actually 13.6v.  The mount is just plugged into my RigRunner along with everything else.  That way I don't have to think about which thing gets 24v and which things get 12v.
--
Dean Jacobsen
http://astrophoto.net/wp/ 
Image Gallery - http://astrophoto.net/wp/image-gallery/
Astrobin - https://www.astrobin.com/users/deanjacobsen/ 


Terri Zittritsch
 
Edited

On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 07:37 PM, uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> wrote:
The DC connector on the CP5 is a round 2 pin Hirose connector. You received a power supply cord with Hirose connector on one end and power poles on the other. The 24 volt AC-DC supply that came with the mount plugs right into that power cable, and yes it does so using the Anderson power poles. However, the Anderson power poles DO NOT connect to the CP5.
 
Please do not use that power supply to power anything else while plugged into the Mach2 CP5 controller. It is 24 volts and can fry your other electronic devices.
 
We supplied you with the power cord that has one end with Anderson power pole connectors so that you have the option of using your CP5 with other power supplies including batteries in the field where the AC-DC power supply would not be useful. You can use any 12 to 24 volt DC battery supply to operate your mount in the field. We did these connectors that way so that you have flexibility.
 

Thanks Roland, I understand the applicability of 24V DC vs. 12V DC, thanks.    I didn't realize the CP5 connector on the box is called a Hirose connector.  It's probably mentioned somewhere in your documentation and it just didn't stick with me.   I was thinking of the connection at the end of the power cord.   It is convenient to use the power-poles.   This is the first time I've used them and now updating the clubs telescope equipment after doing my other 12v astronomy gear..   As long as everything is the same voltage, it makes things very convenient and no-fault.    To avoid confusion, maybe put some kind of flag-tag at the end that says 24V - Mount only.      You almost want CP5 box power cord for 12V (normal power-poles) and then a separate connector type for 24V that fits the 24V supply only.    Or a dual headed connector on the CP5 cord (which I never like).    When I'm setting up both supples are usually right next to each other on my table, and even though the cords are different, something in my brain forces me to feel my way back to the supply to figure out which is which.   I think I'll label mine..


Terri


Worsel
 

"Could be more if the load is unbalanced and the mount has to work against the unbalance."


If I use my Powerwerx meter to measure the watts (more precision than amps) in moving E to W versus W to E and N to S versus S to N, how small should the difference in watts be for a suitable balance in each axis? 

Does the difference vary among mounts?  I have an 1100 (non-AE).

Bryan


uncarollo2 <chris1011@aol.com>
 


So, what is the PEAK draw of the MACH 2 while in use AND if something goes wrong?  
The power supply is rated at 10 amps. The peak current draw at high slew rates (1800x) and both axes slewing can be as much as 5 amps. Could be more if the load is unbalanced and the mount has to work against the unbalance.

Powering other stuff can put spikes in the DC, so it's not a good idea to split the power from the mount supply to power things like dew heaters.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Socarras <tgrick@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Sun, Jun 21, 2020 8:37 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 power consumption #Mach2GTO

Happy Fathers Day to Astro-Dads!

The Mach 2 AC/DC Power Supply terminates to  an Anderson Power Pole connector.  That Anderson Power Pole connector DOES NOT attach to the mount in ANY way.  Astro-Physics then provides an EXTENSION cable.  That extension cable then connects to the ANDERSON POWER POLE connection on one end.  At the END of that extension cable is the FEMALE HIROSE connector that connects to the CP5 control box.

I was following this question because my interest is creating a Y POWER POLE SPLITTER.  The idea is I would SPLIT the power to the Mach 2 AND then SPLIT the power to a STEP down transformer (24V to 12V)  for camera equipment.  I know I can do this I just was not sure of the PEAK amperage draw of the Mach 2?  So, what is the PEAK draw of the MACH 2 while in use AND if something goes wrong?  

Rick


Rick Socarras
 

Happy Fathers Day to Astro-Dads!

The Mach 2 AC/DC Power Supply terminates to  an Anderson Power Pole connector.  That Anderson Power Pole connector DOES NOT attach to the mount in ANY way.  Astro-Physics then provides an EXTENSION cable.  That extension cable then connects to the ANDERSON POWER POLE connection on one end.  At the END of that extension cable is the FEMALE HIROSE connector that connects to the CP5 control box.

I was following this question because my interest is creating a Y POWER POLE SPLITTER.  The idea is I would SPLIT the power to the Mach 2 AND then SPLIT the power to a STEP down transformer (24V to 12V)  for camera equipment.  I know I can do this I just was not sure of the PEAK amperage draw of the Mach 2?  So, what is the PEAK draw of the MACH 2 while in use AND if something goes wrong?  

Rick


Terri Zittritsch
 

On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 06:19 PM, uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> wrote:
The Mach2 power supply does not use Anderson power poles. It uses Hirose connectors. This 24 volt supply should never be used to power anything else, no matter how tempting. It is ONLY to be used to power the Mach2, nothing else.
 
Roland
 
Roland, is this a recent change?   Best I can tell the connector on the 24V supply I have is powerpole.    If not powerpole, it is a copy, and since this plugs into the power cord on the CP5, which also plugs into my battery box which I put powerpole on, I'm not clear what you're referring to.     


Terri



Terri


uncarollo2 <chris1011@aol.com>
 

The DC connector on the CP5 is a round 2 pin Hirose connector. You received a power supply cord with Hirose connector on one end and power poles on the other. The 24 volt AC-DC supply that came with the mount plugs right into that power cable, and yes it does so using the Anderson power poles. However, the Anderson power poles DO NOT connect to the CP5.

Please do not use that power supply to power anything else while plugged into the Mach2 CP5 controller. It is 24 volts and can fry your other electronic devices.

We supplied you with the power cord that has one end with Anderson power pole connectors so that you have the option of using your CP5 with other power supplies including batteries in the field where the AC-DC power supply would not be useful. You can use any 12 to 24 volt DC battery supply to operate your mount in the field. We did these connectors that way so that you have flexibility.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Jerome Allison <jallison@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Sat, Jun 20, 2020 6:20 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 power consumption #Mach2GTO

Thanks for everyone's suggestions, but humbly I have no idea what a Hirose connector is, and can't find them.  The connector on my 24V supply that came with the Mach2 seems to be a standard red/black Anderson PowerPole.  I think maybe the GTOCP5 uses a Hirose connector, and the included power cable transistions to Anderson?

I actually got a "Daygreen" 12 to 24 VDC converter long before for the mount.  I followed their color code, using red/black powerpole connectors for 12VDC in and yellow/black for 24VDC out so I wouldn't confuse voltages.  (I also use gray/orange to code my solar connections.)  I haven't tested it yet, and don't know if there's really any reason for using it when I'm away from line power and am on batteries. 

What are your thoughts on a 12 to 24 DC-DC converter for the mount?  Probably minimal benefits along with voltage conversion power loss, and thus no real gain?

Jerome


 

Thanks for everyone's suggestions, but humbly I have no idea what a Hirose connector is, and can't find them.  The connector on my 24V supply that came with the Mach2 seems to be a standard red/black Anderson PowerPole.  I think maybe the GTOCP5 uses a Hirose connector, and the included power cable transistions to Anderson?

I actually got a "Daygreen" 12 to 24 VDC converter long before for the mount.  I followed their color code, using red/black powerpole connectors for 12VDC in and yellow/black for 24VDC out so I wouldn't confuse voltages.  (I also use gray/orange to code my solar connections.)  I haven't tested it yet, and don't know if there's really any reason for using it when I'm away from line power and am on batteries. 

What are your thoughts on a 12 to 24 DC-DC converter for the mount?  Probably minimal benefits along with voltage conversion power loss, and thus no real gain?

Jerome


uncarollo2 <chris1011@aol.com>
 

Best not to cut the 12 or 24 volt cords because DC at that power level loses voltage for every meter of length added. Best to use an extension cord on the AC side where you can go 100 meters without losing a millivolt of voltage at the DC output.
Betcha most people didn't know that ;^))

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher Erickson <christopher.k.erickson@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Sat, Jun 20, 2020 5:22 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 power consumption #Mach2GTO

My concern is if people cut their power cords to extend them over greater distances to just make sure they don't set themselves up for future problems.


-Christopher Erickson
Observatory engineer
Waikoloa, HI 96738
www.summitkinetics.com
   

On Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 12:19 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
The Mach2 power supply does not use Anderson power poles. It uses Hirose connectors. This 24 volt supply should never be used to power anything else, no matter how tempting. It is ONLY to be used to power the Mach2, nothing else.

Roland


-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher Erickson <christopher.k.erickson@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Sat, Jun 20, 2020 4:26 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 power consumption #Mach2GTO

And MAKE SURE that you use a different style of connectors for the 24V power supply and 12V supply. You don't want to connect 24V to your precious camera or other 12V devices.

Anderson makes powerpole connectors in different sizes, for example. Prevent mixups.


-Christopher Erickson
Observatory engineer
Waikoloa, HI 96738
www.summitkinetics.com
   

On Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 7:01 AM Jerome Allison <jallison@...> wrote:
[Edited Message Follows]
Thanks, David and Rolando.
I will get the simpler Powerwerx supply when it's back in stock, and use the 24 volt supply for the mount in the meantime. 
Jerome
P.S. The mount worked perfectly - I really love it, Roland. Great stuff.


Christopher Erickson
 

My concern is if people cut their power cords to extend them over greater distances to just make sure they don't set themselves up for future problems.


-Christopher Erickson
Observatory engineer
Waikoloa, HI 96738
www.summitkinetics.com
   

On Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 12:19 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
The Mach2 power supply does not use Anderson power poles. It uses Hirose connectors. This 24 volt supply should never be used to power anything else, no matter how tempting. It is ONLY to be used to power the Mach2, nothing else.

Roland


-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher Erickson <christopher.k.erickson@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Sat, Jun 20, 2020 4:26 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 power consumption #Mach2GTO

And MAKE SURE that you use a different style of connectors for the 24V power supply and 12V supply. You don't want to connect 24V to your precious camera or other 12V devices.

Anderson makes powerpole connectors in different sizes, for example. Prevent mixups.


-Christopher Erickson
Observatory engineer
Waikoloa, HI 96738
www.summitkinetics.com
   

On Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 7:01 AM Jerome Allison <jallison@...> wrote:
[Edited Message Follows]
Thanks, David and Rolando.
I will get the simpler Powerwerx supply when it's back in stock, and use the 24 volt supply for the mount in the meantime. 
Jerome
P.S. The mount worked perfectly - I really love it, Roland. Great stuff.


uncarollo2 <chris1011@aol.com>
 

The Mach2 power supply does not use Anderson power poles. It uses Hirose connectors. This 24 volt supply should never be used to power anything else, no matter how tempting. It is ONLY to be used to power the Mach2, nothing else.

Roland


-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher Erickson <christopher.k.erickson@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Sat, Jun 20, 2020 4:26 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 power consumption #Mach2GTO

And MAKE SURE that you use a different style of connectors for the 24V power supply and 12V supply. You don't want to connect 24V to your precious camera or other 12V devices.

Anderson makes powerpole connectors in different sizes, for example. Prevent mixups.


-Christopher Erickson
Observatory engineer
Waikoloa, HI 96738
www.summitkinetics.com
   

On Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 7:01 AM Jerome Allison <jallison@...> wrote:
[Edited Message Follows]
Thanks, David and Rolando.
I will get the simpler Powerwerx supply when it's back in stock, and use the 24 volt supply for the mount in the meantime. 
Jerome
P.S. The mount worked perfectly - I really love it, Roland. Great stuff.


Christopher Erickson
 

And MAKE SURE that you use a different style of connectors for the 24V power supply and 12V supply. You don't want to connect 24V to your precious camera or other 12V devices.

Anderson makes powerpole connectors in different sizes, for example. Prevent mixups.


-Christopher Erickson
Observatory engineer
Waikoloa, HI 96738
www.summitkinetics.com
   


On Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 7:01 AM Jerome Allison <jallison@...> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

Thanks, David and Rolando.
I will get the simpler Powerwerx supply when it's back in stock, and use the 24 volt supply for the mount in the meantime. 
Jerome
P.S. The mount worked perfectly - I really love it, Roland. Great stuff.


 
Edited

Thanks, David and Rolando.
I will get the simpler Powerwerx supply when it's back in stock, and use the 24 volt supply for the mount in the meantime. 
Jerome
P.S. The mount worked perfectly - I really love it, Roland. Great stuff.


uncarollo2 <chris1011@aol.com>
 

Powerwerks is a great product. Very robust and highly efficient.
For your Mach2 I recommend that you use the 24 volt power supply that comes with the mount. Run just the mount with that and use a separate supply for everything else.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Jerome Allison <jallison@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Sat, Jun 20, 2020 5:27 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 power consumption #Mach2GTO

Roland, do you have a better 120VAC to 12VDC power supply solution for me?  I'm looking for one.
Between weather and schedule, I finally had a chance outside in the back yard Friday night to see how everything would work.  I've made a lot of changes to my equipment arrangement and wanted a dry run.
I don't want to draw this out, but that Pyramid power supply that I mentioned before (and you noted its inefficiency) does seem to be pretty lame.  I only bought it because it seemed pretty popular/well regarded a few years ago. After a couple hours running my mount, cameras, etc., it was fine.  (as in, who's worrying about the power supply going out?)
But later, during a big double axis slew it QUIT with a "Protection" error light. I let it cool down and it worked from then on, but I was much gentler with it.
I don't want this to happen again, so is the Powerwerx supply the best solution?
Thanks, Jerome


David
 

Try one of these.  I have them both and they are great solutions using Powerpole connections.
They run cool, and quiet, and have never given a problem in the years I’ve used them.



David




On Jun 20, 2020, at 6:27 AM, Jerome Allison <jallison@...> wrote:

Roland, do you have a better 120VAC to 12VDC power supply solution for me?  I'm looking for one.
Between weather and schedule, I finally had a chance outside in the back yard Friday night to see how everything would work.  I've made a lot of changes to my equipment arrangement and wanted a dry run.
I don't want to draw this out, but that Pyramid power supply that I mentioned before (and you noted its inefficiency) does seem to be pretty lame.  I only bought it because it seemed pretty popular/well regarded a few years ago. After a couple hours running my mount, cameras, etc., it was fine.  (as in, who's worrying about the power supply going out?)
But later, during a big double axis slew it QUIT with a "Protection" error light. I let it cool down and it worked from then on, but I was much gentler with it.
I don't want this to happen again, so is the Powerwerx supply the best solution?
Thanks, Jerome


 

Roland, do you have a better 120VAC to 12VDC power supply solution for me?  I'm looking for one.
Between weather and schedule, I finally had a chance outside in the back yard Friday night to see how everything would work.  I've made a lot of changes to my equipment arrangement and wanted a dry run.
I don't want to draw this out, but that Pyramid power supply that I mentioned before (and you noted its inefficiency) does seem to be pretty lame.  I only bought it because it seemed pretty popular/well regarded a few years ago. After a couple hours running my mount, cameras, etc., it was fine.  (as in, who's worrying about the power supply going out?)
But later, during a big double axis slew it QUIT with a "Protection" error light. I let it cool down and it worked from then on, but I was much gentler with it.
I don't want this to happen again, so is the Powerwerx supply the best solution?
Thanks, Jerome


 

All my other equipment is based on 12V power.  I use the Pyramid indoors for testing/practice, or in the back yard.  Otherwise when at a dark site, it's all 12V batteries.  But, I'll give it a try.

Thanks for reminding me about microstepping.  With the Arduino focuser I mentioned before, I intentionally used a stepper with a 28:1 planetary gear reduction.  That way I could avoid microstepping and thus put it to sleep without losing its position.  With that gearing, it's very resistant to external movement. 

Jerome


Dean Jacobsen
 

Excellent.  I will just keep doing what I have been doing then.  Slews at 600x have always been good enough for me.
--
Dean Jacobsen
http://astrophoto.net/wp/ 
Image Gallery - http://astrophoto.net/wp/image-gallery/
Astrobin - https://www.astrobin.com/users/deanjacobsen/ 


uncarollo2 <chris1011@aol.com>
 

The mount will not stall at 12 volts. It has the same capability as it has at 24 volts. except it won't slew as fast.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Dean Jacobsen <deanjacobsen@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Tue, May 26, 2020 1:41 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 power consumption #Mach2GTO

Thanks Roland.

the part in your previous post about "stalls and/or resonance situations" got me thinking that I should run the mount at 24 volts instead of the 13.6 volts that I have the power supply set to.  Power efficiency is not really a concern while the mains are on and the standby battery is a large capacity battery which would actually run my AP900, camera, laptop, etc. for two nights.  So I can afford to be inefficient with an inverter if it means that I am avoiding the possibility of stalls and/or resonance situations.

--
Dean Jacobsen
http://astrophoto.net/wp/ 
Image Gallery - http://astrophoto.net/wp/image-gallery/
Astrobin - https://www.astrobin.com/users/deanjacobsen/