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1 - 20 of 26
need learning aids for astrophoto
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Some of the newer DSLRs have very low noise. Read up on the new Canon Ra, about which Sky& Telescope and Astronomy are raving. That said, the cooling available in many astro cameras is an advantage. The Canon RA is $2500 you could get a very nice cooled astronomy camera for that price. shoot, you could get a very nice cooled astronomy camera for less than 1/2 that price it's a nice camera for sure. I think it's more geared for casual astronomy users who also want to shoot terrestrial and maybe already own some canon glass. If i were starting from scratch and focused on astronomy, i don't think this direction would be my first choice. Brian I agree with Mike that a DSLR is a good option to consider. I would offer a different take on the following. --
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Worsel
I agree with Mike that a DSLR is a good option to consider. I would offer a different take on the following.
2. IMO a DSLR is a good choice if you're just starting out. But I think buying a cooled CMOS astronomy camera is a better choice if your budget allows. Consider: A) A CMOS camera is powered from the USB (usually USB 3.0) cable, not from an internal battery that might not last through an imaging session. I power my DSLRs with the AC adapter, not a battery. This works in an observatory, off 120VAC (mains) or the field, if you have a large capacity (amp-hours) battery and inverter B) A cooled CMOS camera has lower noise than an uncooled DSLR. Some of the newer DSLRs have very low noise. Read up on the new Canon Ra, about which Sky& Telescope and Astronomy are raving. That said, the cooling available in many astro cameras is an advantage. C) ZWO offers an off-axis guider (OAG) that mounts in between the OTA and the imaging camera. A small lightweight (and inexpensive) camera screws into this OAG. You can easily add autoguiding without needing a separate guide scope and camera. (I use a separate guider for specific reasons related to my imaging goals.) I image with an Astrodon MOAG, which sits between the camera and the scope, and a DSLR. Bryan |
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Hello Dick Yes there are a lot of things to consider when getting into (or back into) this hobby. however it can be quite rewarding and mentally stimulating. When you set your equipment priorities, the mount is the most important, just like the foundation of your house!. Get a good mount. Everything else is secondary. For the scope, you want a reasonably good scope with a solid well made focuser that can carry the weight of you imaging train without sagging or flopping around. If you go with a refractor, try to get an Apochromatic (APO) model. There are lots of well made APOs in the 100mm aperture range on the market for a reasonable price. For cameras, the choices have never been wider. If you choose to go with a dedicated astro camera, there are some great reasonably priced CCD cameras out there. The newer CMOS dedicated cooled cameras are relatively inexpensive, some are less than a good new DSLR and a lot lighter as well. If you go that route, don't try to get one with a really large sensor. Large sensor cameras require a scope with a large image circle and these are really expensive. Take your time and do your research. There are several astro related blog sites like this one out there where you can get good information and lots of opinions! Remember to start small and work up. Just some more food for thought! Don Anderson
On Tuesday, May 5, 2020, 09:41:46 a.m. MDT, fastqx . <fastqx@...> wrote:
thanks, all of you who responded to my plea. yep, i'm overwhelmed. not just by the tsunami of new issues to think about, but also by everyone's kindness and generosity. one day i hope to be less overwhelmed, but i'll always be grateful. dick fast atlin bc On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 8:33 AM Geof Lewis <geoflewis@...> wrote: Don, |
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No worries Geof! Another challenge Dick is facing is his location. Atlin is in the NW corner of British Columbia near the border with Alaska pan handle. This is on the lee side of the coastal mountain range. Seeing conditions will be a challenge for long focal length astrophotography. We here in Calgary Alberta face the same problem being on the East side of the Rockies. That's why I stick with wide field. Keep safe. Don Anderson
On Tuesday, May 5, 2020, 09:33:35 a.m. MDT, Geof Lewis <geoflewis@...> wrote:
Don, Thanks for pointing out my error, I should have read the original post. Yes, a 12" will make the difficulties that I experienced with my 10" Meade all the more challenging, but I believe that it is still possible, just probably not from where you'd want to start... Regards, Geof |
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fastqx .
thanks, all of you who responded to my plea. yep, i'm overwhelmed. not just by the tsunami of new issues to think about, but also by everyone's kindness and generosity. one day i hope to be less overwhelmed, but i'll always be grateful. dick fast atlin bc On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 8:33 AM Geof Lewis <geoflewis@...> wrote: Don, |
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Don,
Thanks for pointing out my error, I should have read the original post. Yes, a 12" will make the difficulties that I experienced with my 10" Meade all the more challenging, but I believe that it is still possible, just probably not from where you'd want to start... Regards, Geof |
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I looked at his original post. His scope is a 12" Meade. Don Anderson
On Tuesday, May 5, 2020, 03:22:20 a.m. MDT, Geof Lewis <geoflewis@...> wrote:
Hi Dick,
I tend to agree with most of the advice you've been getting, BUT I want to say that it is not so difficult to get images with a 10" Meade LX200 and a stock DSLR (mine was the Nikon D90) as that is exactly how I started out. Of course the route that I
followed is not recommended, but the first thing I did (that is within a few days) after taking early retirement in 2012 was purchased a pre-owned 10" Meade LX200, at which point visual observing, not photography was my main ambition. However, it didn't take
long (about 3 months) for me to try attaching my Nikon camera, then a guide scope + guide camera, focal reducer, etc, etc.. For sure the LX200 mount had terrible tracking and PE, so yielded poor shape stars, but I was excited and pretty pleased to get some
reasonable DSO images, plus I learnt a lot on the way. For planetary and lunar imaging where accurate tracking is less of an issue the 10" Meade performed extremely well.
All of that said, it is FAR easier to get better results with a smaller refractor, even piggy backed on the Meade and of course I ended up parting with the LX200 in favour of a pre-owned Astro-Physics AP1200 mount, which is an absolute joy to use, but
these are rare items to find, certainly in the UK where I'm located.
Good luck and above all have fun.
Geof
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Cheng-Yang Tan via groups.io <cytan299@...>
Sent: 05 May 2020 01:04 To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] need learning aids for astrophoto Hi Dick,
I'm not sure that an old 10" LX200 OTA is the correct scope to start with for astrophotography. Its focal length is too long for a beginner even with a focal reducer. It also has mirror flop which means guiding should be done with an off-axis
guider.
I'd consider a nice f/6 100 mm to 130 mm refractor. AP sells top of the line refractors -- but getting one new will require a long wait.
IMO, I'd really recommend buying cheaper equipment to see whether you like astrophotography first before sinking in more than $10k to $20k and then discovering you don't really like it.
cytan
On Monday, May 4, 2020, 06:39:19 PM CDT, fastqx . <fastqx@...> wrote:
thanks, charles, for the advice. i'm a "re"-new watcher, so i appreciate all new comments.
dick fast
atlin
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On 5/5/2020 5:22 AM, Geof Lewis wrote:
Hi Dick, ...parting with the LX200 in favour of a pre-owned Astro-Physics AP1200I'll weigh in again with a few more comments about equipment, not learning aidss. 1. I agree 100% with how wonderful the AP1200 is. I too started imaging with a 10" LX200, then quickly moved to a 9.25" SCT on a GEM, then another GEM, and finally a second-hand AP1200 that I still use. It is a wonderful mount, and imaging with it is MUCH easier than with any of the other mounts I've used. I use a separate guide scope and camera <http://astronomy.mdodd.com/observatory.html#Autoguiding> that typically yield guiding errors less than 1 arcsec with the AP1200. 2. IMO a DSLR is a good choice if you're just starting out. But I think buying a cooled CMOS astronomy camera is a better choice if your budget allows. Consider: A) A CMOS camera is powered from the USB (usually USB 3.0) cable, not from an internal battery that might not last through an imaging session. B) A cooled CMOS camera has lower noise than an uncooled DSLR. C) ZWO offers an off-axis guider (OAG) that mounts in between the OTA and the imaging camera. A small lightweight (and inexpensive) camera screws into this OAG. You can easily add autoguiding without needing a separate guide scope and camera. (I use a separate guider for specific reasons related to my imaging goals.) There's a lot to think about; I hope you're not overwhelmed. -- Mike Mike Dodd Louisa County, Virginia USA http://astronomy.mdodd.com |
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DFisch
+1 for Dean’s recs.. I read both of these before I went online for some visuals of how to put it in play. Still a pilgrim on a pilgrimage. Tom Fischer
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Terri Zittritsch
On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 09:18 AM, Dean Jacobsen wrote:
I'll second Dean's recommendations, and I have both of these (and wish I had both when I started out). The forums are great for helping to solve issues but can be difficult to use as a guide for starting out, as there are so many differing opinions on what is, and is not, the way to go. There is no substitute to getting a good foundation. Terri |
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Hi Dick, you asked for "learning aids" so here are a couple of recent books I would recommend:
1. The Astrophotography Manual by Chris Woodhouse - https://www.amazon.com/Astrophotography-Manual-Practical-Scientific-Approach/dp/1138055360/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1588684414&sr=8-5 2. The Deep Sky Imaging Primer, Second Edition by Charles Bracken - https://www.amazon.com/Deep-sky-Imaging-Primer-Second/dp/0999470906/ref=sr_1_7?crid=LW7SLOLA05HO&dchild=1&keywords=astrophotography+books&qid=1588684493&sprefix=astrophotography%2Caps%2C201&sr=8-7 Both are great book and either [or both] will get you a good start on the modern cameras, mounts, software and techniques. Good luck. -- Dean Jacobsen http://astrophoto.net/wp/ Image Gallery - http://astrophoto.net/wp/image-gallery/ Astrobin - https://www.astrobin.com/users/deanjacobsen/ |
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Hi Dick,
I tend to agree with most of the advice you've been getting, BUT I want to say that it is not so difficult to get images with a 10" Meade LX200 and a stock DSLR (mine was the Nikon D90) as that is exactly how I started out. Of course the route that I
followed is not recommended, but the first thing I did (that is within a few days) after taking early retirement in 2012 was purchased a pre-owned 10" Meade LX200, at which point visual observing, not photography was my main ambition. However, it didn't take
long (about 3 months) for me to try attaching my Nikon camera, then a guide scope + guide camera, focal reducer, etc, etc.. For sure the LX200 mount had terrible tracking and PE, so yielded poor shape stars, but I was excited and pretty pleased to get some
reasonable DSO images, plus I learnt a lot on the way. For planetary and lunar imaging where accurate tracking is less of an issue the 10" Meade performed extremely well.
All of that said, it is FAR easier to get better results with a smaller refractor, even piggy backed on the Meade and of course I ended up parting with the LX200 in favour of a pre-owned Astro-Physics AP1200 mount, which is an absolute joy to use, but
these are rare items to find, certainly in the UK where I'm located.
Good luck and above all have fun.
Geof
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Cheng-Yang Tan via groups.io <cytan299@...>
Sent: 05 May 2020 01:04 To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] need learning aids for astrophoto Hi Dick,
I'm not sure that an old 10" LX200 OTA is the correct scope to start with for astrophotography. Its focal length is too long for a beginner even with a focal reducer. It also has mirror flop which means guiding should be done with an off-axis
guider.
I'd consider a nice f/6 100 mm to 130 mm refractor. AP sells top of the line refractors -- but getting one new will require a long wait.
IMO, I'd really recommend buying cheaper equipment to see whether you like astrophotography first before sinking in more than $10k to $20k and then discovering you don't really like it.
cytan
On Monday, May 4, 2020, 06:39:19 PM CDT, fastqx . <fastqx@...> wrote:
thanks, charles, for the advice. i'm a "re"-new watcher, so i appreciate all new comments.
dick fast
atlin
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I agree with Cheng-Yang Tan - wow, starting imaging with the Meade 10" SCT would be extraordinarily challenging.
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Hello Dick Welcome back to the astronomy/Astrophotography hobby! A lot has changed with the hobby in the past 25 years. There is a wide range of equipment available to the amature today ie. mounts, scopes, cameras as well as associated support equipment and software that amatures, and some pros only dreamed about 25 years ago. You need to figure out what kind of astrophotography you want to do and what would work best for your location as well as what you feel you are capable of. Your 12" Meade is a large heavy long focal length scope which could be difficult to master as the basis of a starting astrophoto rig. My suggestion would be to start with a good mount such as an AP, a reasonably good smaller to medium size short f/l scope such as a short focus refractor of say 100 mm aperture, possibly a DSLR(unmodified to start) or a one shot color cooled astro camera. I would keep things as simple as possible so you don't get overwhelmed and frustrated. This hobby can be quite taxing physically and mentally. As far as equipment goes, I would recommend you search sites like Canada-wide Astronomy Buy & Sell or Astromart for good used equipment. Can't go wrong with an Astro Physics mount new or good used. They are rock solid and simple to use with great support from the manufacture and from people on sites like this. With regards to software, there is a dizzying array of choices out there from expensive to freeware. Do your research on that as well. Keep in mind that you don't want to get overwhelmed with complicated software suites when you are just starting out. I would start with basic camera control software and try using the mounts hand control (AP has an excellent one) to select and track your targets. I would suggest you spend a good deal of time researching what's available for your budget(none of this is cheap especially in Canadian dollars!). Not sure if there is any local astro clubs near you. Atlin is pretty remote but try to find someone who can help you through the early stages. Just my Toonys worth! Good luck. Don Anderson
On Monday, May 4, 2020, 03:30:32 p.m. MDT, fastqx . <fastqx@...> wrote:
i'm an old guy who, after 25 years absence, (now at N 59.5 degrees) wants to watch the sky again. can you help me find a book/course/tutorial that would update me on modern amateur astrophotography? i am building a new dome, and have an old meade 12" lx200. electronics are eff-ed, but ota is just fine. i'm looking for a solid equatorial mount and the requisite "go-to" and tracking software. dick fast atlin bc canada |
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fd@...
I would not start AstroPhotography with a 3048mm FL scope. But buy a mount that can support it later, and an 80-100mm triplet refractor for now. Camera? A ZWO cooled one-shot color camera is a good choice. Mono is "better" but much more complicated
-- Mach1GTO and GTOCP4 on permanent pier |
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fjk5146
I found the following book very helpful when I was dipping my toe into Astrophotography: Getting Started: Long Exposure Astrophotography by Allan Hall. It is available on Amazon.
It covers the basics: mount, camera, guiding etc. The equipment section is probably a little out of date, but the fundamentals discussed in each section are still valid. It provides a good overview of the whole process. I started out with a non-Astro-Physics mount but later moved to an AP1100. Once I moved the the AP1100 I found that I was no longer fiddling with the mount because it just blends into the background. Once your ready to actually start trying to image, I would recommend that you start with a 90-127mm refractor. If you jump right into a long focal length scope you could spend a lot of time chasing your tail while you're trying to learn the basics. Just my 2 cents. Fred -- Fred Keller Gold Creek Observatory Martinsville, IN |
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dvjbaja
Check out the ebooks by Alan Dyer. Quite informative with great illustrations. Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note9, an AT&T 5G Evolution capable smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Stuart <stuart.j.heggie@...> Date: 5/4/20 3:36 PM (GMT-08:00) To: main@ap-gto.groups.io Subject: Re: [ap-gto] need learning aids for astrophoto Dick, get ready for the deluge of advice! LOL! This is THE list for getting help with premium gear. I'm pretty certain that an AP1100GTO would be more than adequate for the 12" LX200 OTA. You can get on the list for the Mach2 which I think would be awesome but not sure the wait time for those. Karen or Marj will know. As for cameras ... if you look in this list's archives there was a very recent lively discussion about the move away from ccd to cmos and which cameras people are favouring. As for books: you can't go wrong with the classics like Terry Dickenson's Backyard Astronomers Guide but newer resources might be more useful when it comes to gear. Camera choice will come down to what you want to photograph. You going to go after planets? One camera. Deep sky? A different camera. Stuart Heggie On Mon, 4 May 2020 at 17:30, fastqx . <fastqx@...> wrote: i'm an old guy who, after 25 years absence, (now at N 59.5 degrees) wants to watch the sky again. can you help me find a book/course/tutorial that would update me on modern amateur astrophotography? i am building a new dome, and have an old meade 12" lx200. electronics are eff-ed, but ota is just fine. i'm looking for a solid equatorial mount and the requisite "go-to" and tracking software. -- Stuart http://www.astrofoto.ca/stuartheggie/ |
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On 5/4/2020 7:34 PM, Charles Thompson via groups.io wrote:
Dick, there is a choice you will have to make up front on cameras.Dick.... If you're aiming for "pretty picture" astro images like me, give serious consideration to a ZWO or similar cooled CMOS camera. I use an ASI1600MC Pro, but the '294MC Pro also has a lot going for it. I used an ST-8 CCD camera with LRGB and narrowband filters for about five years, and got some decent images processing with CCDStack and Photoshop. The one-shot color camera is MUCH better! For one thing, read noise is very low. For another, getting a color image without filters is a big time-saver. I wouldn't go back, no way, no how. I also have Ha and Oiii filters for when I want to image in moonlight. I combine these subs with full-color subs taken when it's dark. Processing has also changed. Now, a program named PixInsight is the go-to choice, because it does EVERYTHING you could wish for. It has a learning curve, but there are books and tutorials. Finally, a CMOS camera is suitable for electronics enhanced astronomy (EAA), where you can build a real-time image on a computer screen instead of looking through an eyepiece using software like SharpCap or ZWO's ASICap (I think is the name). This is really nice when friends or relatives want to "look through the telescope." EAA shows you more detail and color than you could ever see through an eyepiece. I hope this helps. -- Mike Mike Dodd Louisa County, Virginia USA http://astronomy.mdodd.com |
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Trevor's YouTube channel is very good as well as: *Chuck's Astrophotography *Ray's Astrophotography *The Astro Imaging channel - goes back more than 5 years! Thanks, Charles Sent from mobile device. -------- Original message -------- From: Thomas Fischer <manusfisch@...> Date: 5/4/20 6:38 PM (GMT-06:00) To: main@ap-gto.groups.io Subject: Re: [ap-gto] need learning aids for astrophoto As a rookie I found Trevor Jones of Canada own Astrobackyard to be a great source of grounded reason. His transition from DSLR to CCD to CMOS is well chronicled in his videos. Might be too simplistic for you but it was a great start for me after much reading. Photographing Space is another practical online source, Tom Fischer Indy TJF 📱 On Mon, May 4, 2020, 18:36 Stuart <stuart.j.heggie@...> wrote:
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Cheng-Yang Tan
Hi Dick, I'm not sure that an old 10" LX200 OTA is the correct scope to start with for astrophotography. Its focal length is too long for a beginner even with a focal reducer. It also has mirror flop which means guiding should be done with an off-axis guider. I'd consider a nice f/6 100 mm to 130 mm refractor. AP sells top of the line refractors -- but getting one new will require a long wait. IMO, I'd really recommend buying cheaper equipment to see whether you like astrophotography first before sinking in more than $10k to $20k and then discovering you don't really like it. cytan
On Monday, May 4, 2020, 06:39:19 PM CDT, fastqx . <fastqx@...> wrote:
thanks, charles, for the advice. i'm a "re"-new watcher, so i appreciate all new comments. dick fast atlin
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