Date
1 - 20 of 20
Autoguiding with a Sky Model in Place?
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Wayne Hixson
I recently completed my first APPM model with my Mach2. It really appears to help my pointing and guiding, with round stars on 5-minute unguided subs. However when I tried to introduce guiding with PHD2 or MaximDL, using the same settings as before, my RMS jumps to 1” or more where I was getting under 0.6” without the model. I’m using an OAG with Ultrastar on a 130GTX and f/6.7 field flattener. Any suggestions? Maybe just go without guiding? I like to use for minor corrections and dithering.
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Roland Christen
Contact me directly so that our software engineer and myself can study your results.
Roland Christen
-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne Hixson via groups.io <wayneh9026@...> To: main <main@ap-gto.groups.io> Sent: Thu, Apr 9, 2020 1:34 pm Subject: [ap-gto] Autoguiding with a Sky Model in Place? I recently completed my first APPM model with my Mach2. It really appears to help my pointing and guiding, with round stars on 5-minute unguided subs. However when I tried to introduce guiding with PHD2 or MaximDL, using the same settings as before, my RMS jumps to 1” or more where I was getting under 0.6” without the model. I’m using an OAG with Ultrastar on a 130GTX and f/6.7 field flattener. Any suggestions? Maybe just go without guiding? I like to use for minor corrections and dithering.
wayne
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Hi Wayne, Recently, I upgraded to APCCPro and used the pointing model as well. While tthe PhD2 guiding graph did improve t(flatten) he RMS value remains around 1" like your experience. I would be interested to learn if there is something I can do to improve the guiding. Thank you, Phillip
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Craig Anderson
Phillip,
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Is your auto-guiding graphc really “spiky”, flipping back and forth over the centerline? If it is, then you might try introducing a short delay after each auto-guiding correction. I noticed that adding a 3 second delay after auto-guiding corrections on my AP1600 AE mount significantly smoothed it out my auto-guiding. I’m not sure why, but it was pretty noticeable. It was almost like the mount was always overshooting, and adding that delay eliminated that affect. Changing my auto-guider exposure didn’t make much difference, but adding that delay seemed to do the trick. I hope that helps, -Craig
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Hi Craig, Yes I do see the spiking as you described. Could you please tell me where to find the setting to have a delay? I did not see it when looking under the Brain in PhD2. Thank you, Phillip
On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 11:59 AM Craig Anderson <craig@...> wrote:
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Roland Christen
Absolutely, with an encoder mount you will want to have a delay between guide pulses. The reason is that it takes a moment for the axis to fully respond and reverse in Dec when a command comes in. In an encoder mount each command will be fully accommodated by the encoder loop, whereas in a non-encoder mount it may take several move commands for the axis to finally fully reverse. If you start sending the same move command in an encoder mount without waiting for the first one to finish, you will definitely overshoot.
A 2 - 3 second delay between commands is a good recommendation. There is no periodic error that you need to chase in RA and the Dec axis isn't going anywhere. This assumes that you don't have very poor polar alignment that causes the axes to drift at high rates. I have had perfect guiding with 20 seconds between exposures using our 1600 encoder mount with the 17"F8 astrograph.
Roland
-----Original Message-----
From: Craig Anderson <craig@...> To: main <main@ap-gto.groups.io> Sent: Thu, Apr 9, 2020 1:59 pm Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Autoguiding with a Sky Model in Place? Phillip,
Is your auto-guiding graphc really “spiky”, flipping back and forth over the centerline? If it is, then you might try introducing a short delay after each auto-guiding correction. I noticed that adding a 3 second delay after auto-guiding corrections on my AP1600 AE mount significantly smoothed it out my auto-guiding. I’m not sure why, but it was pretty noticeable. It was almost like the mount was always overshooting, and adding that delay eliminated that affect. Changing my auto-guider exposure didn’t make much difference, but adding that delay seemed to do the trick.
I hope that helps,
-Craig
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Roland Christen
Under "Camera Settings":
Time Lapse (ms). Set it to 3000 for a 3 second delay between exposures.
Rolando
-----Original Message-----
From: Phillip Klein <klein.phillip@...> To: main <main@ap-gto.groups.io> Sent: Thu, Apr 9, 2020 2:09 pm Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Autoguiding with a Sky Model in Place? Hi Craig,
Yes I do see the spiking as you described. Could you please tell me where to find the setting to have a delay? I did not see it when looking under the Brain in PhD2.
Thank you,
Phillip
On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 11:59 AM Craig Anderson <craig@...> wrote:
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I just made that entry. Anxious to see the difference in guiding when the skies clear. Thank you so very much!!! Phillip
On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 12:19 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
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Wayne Hixson
I will check that delay setting, although I'm sure I didn't have a delay set in MaximDL. Yes definitely spiky! Roland, I'll give it another try tonight and check in with you tomorrow, I don't want to take any of what I'm sure is precious time until I get th e data you need. What data should I get?
Wayne
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Wayne Hixson
PS another model related question - do you turn it off when doing lunar or solar imaging?
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Roland Christen
Also another thing - on the Mach2 make sure that all 4 clutch knobs are equally tightened, especially in Dec. If you have only one or two snugged you may get slightly longer reversal delay in some parts of the sky. You want the gearwheel to be fully tightened to the mount's main shaft for best guide results.
Rolando
-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne Hixson via groups.io <wayneh9026@...> To: main <main@ap-gto.groups.io> Sent: Thu, Apr 9, 2020 2:41 pm Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Autoguiding with a Sky Model in Place? I will check that delay setting, although I'm sure I didn't have a delay set in MaximDL. Yes definitely spiky! Roland, I'll give it another try tonight and check in with you tomorrow, I don't want to take any of what I'm sure is precious time until I get th e data you need. What data should I get?
Wayne
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Roland Christen
That's a question for ray Gralack, but I would assume that you would set the tracking rate to lunar or solar and the model would automatically not apply corrections.
Roland
-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne Hixson via groups.io <wayneh9026@...> To: main <main@ap-gto.groups.io> Sent: Thu, Apr 9, 2020 2:44 pm Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Autoguiding with a Sky Model in Place? PS another model related question - do you turn it off when doing lunar or solar imaging?
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Wayne Hixson
What I'm doing now is hand-tightening all clutches as hard as I can, but I will make sure I keep them consistent
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Roland Christen
Yes, that works.
Roland
-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne Hixson via groups.io <wayneh9026@...> To: main <main@ap-gto.groups.io> Sent: Thu, Apr 9, 2020 3:11 pm Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Autoguiding with a Sky Model in Place? What I'm doing now is hand-tightening all clutches as hard as I can, but I will make sure I keep them consistent
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Wayne,
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Have you tried turning down aggressiveness? You may be chasing the seeing. Also, have you tried back to back switching between model on versus model off? It could be seeing was worse at that time? -Ray Gralak Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
-----Original Message-----
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PS another model related question - do you turn it off when doing lunar or solar imaging?Yes, would have to as it would override the lunar/solar setting. A better option is to use Horizons (the application included with APCC) to get the dual axis motions of the moon or sun. Then tracking will be much more accurate than the mount's built in solar/lunar rates. -Ray Gralak Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver -----Original Message-----
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Wayne Hixson
Ray would I still leave tracking correction on while using Horizons?
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Just tried Horizons for tracking the BepiColumbo mission. Got it to work but would have to cut down a number of trees and neighbors house! Can you use that for ISS passes? What time units would work? Wayne
On Apr 9, 2020, at 6:22 PM, Ray Gralak <groups3@...> wrote:
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Wayne, yes you can and should leave tracking rate correction on.
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You might be able to track ISS but the computer time has to be perfect and ISS not have changed course after you acquire coordinates for it. -Ray Gralak Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
-----Original Message-----
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Wayne Hixson
Spent some time playing with Autoguiding in both PHD2 and MaximDL, adding a 3-second delay between images (not sure in MaximDL as I kind of guessed where to enter that value). Both worked well given seeing condtions, the corrections were smoother and I was under 1". I turned the tracking model on and off and it appeared I was getting better results with it on, although there was enough variance I couldn't swear to it. I ran without for a few minutes and was at 0.9" RMS and then with model it was at about 0.7", however the seeing was not steady and maybe contributing to that variance.
I did run the autoguide assistant in PHD2 and it raised my minimum move quite a bit, I'll check the exact values later if you're interested. Now it was interesting that MaximDL seemed smoother. I had the graph turned on to show corrections and it appeared the corrections were few and far between. PHD2 on the other hand was making frequent corrections. I'm going to ask on the Maxim forum about how to read the graph and also make sure I know how to set delays. Anyway I think adding the delay did make a difference Wayne What I had to remember when switching back and forth was that I had to enable pulse guide for Maxim and turn it off for PHD2!
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Roland Christen
What I had to remember when switching back and forth was that I had to enable pulse guide for Maxim In Maxim you want to use "Telescope" for guiding. But you first have to connect to the mount via your USB cable, same as PHD. Click on the little Observatory Dome icon to bring up the Setup window. Press the Telescope Connect button. This will then allow the program to send direct move commands which are more accurate than the Pulse Guide commands.
For setting the guide delays in Maxim, bring up the Guider Settings - Advanced window. Set the "Delay After Corrections" to 2 seconds or 3 seconds. You can also set your Min Move and Max Move in that window.
Rolando
-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne Hixson via groups.io <wayneh9026@...> To: main <main@ap-gto.groups.io> Sent: Fri, Apr 10, 2020 10:26 am Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Autoguiding with a Sky Model in Place? Spent some time playing with Autoguiding in both PHD2 and MaximDL, adding a 3-second delay between images (not sure in MaximDL as I kind of guessed where to enter that value). Both worked well given seeing condtions, the corrections were smoother and I was under 1". I turned the tracking model on and off and it appeared I was getting better results with it on, although there was enough variance I couldn't swear to it. I ran without for a few minutes and was at 0.9" RMS and then with model it was at about 0.7", however the seeing was not steady and maybe contributing to that variance.
I did run the autoguide assistant in PHD2 and it raised my minimum move quite a bit, I'll check the exact values later if you're interested. Now it was interesting that MaximDL seemed smoother. I had the graph turned on to show corrections and it appeared the corrections were few and far between. PHD2 on the other hand was making frequent corrections. I'm going to ask on the Maxim forum about how to read the graph and also make sure I know how to set delays. Anyway I think adding the delay did make a difference Wayne What I had to remember when switching back and forth was that I had to enable pulse guide for Maxim and turn it off for PHD2!
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