Topics

Notified!😍 #mach2gto #Mach2GTO


Terri Zittritsch
 

On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 02:44 PM, uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> wrote:
You should be able to get polar alignment good enough and keep it so with a solid tripod. Once aligned, I have not seen a tripod change the polar alignment.
 
Good polar alignment for imaging should result in Dec drift of 1 arc sec per 10 minutes at the meridian. If you also drift align the RA at the zenith, you should then also get 1 arc sec or better drift in 10 minutes for up to 2 hours on either side of the zenith. In PHD2 you can monitor your drift using the Trend Lines. You can then make tiny adjustments to the Alt and Az while watching the trend Lines and eventually zero in on perfect PA. Do the Azimuth first until the Dec line becomes flat - ignore the RA. Then tweak the Altitude until the RA line becomes flat. Do it on an overhead star. You might have to iterate a couple of times to get both Trend lines flat for at least 5 minutes. 
 
Thank you Rolando, I will give it a try next time I'm out.  You know, whenever I setup, I wonder just how stable things are.   My tripods by themselves are generally stable    But if for instance, a tripod foot settles 1mm, this can result in a 4 arc minute change in the polar pointing (referring to C. Woodhouse in the Astrophotography manual), I haven't done the calculations myself to validate this, but seems reasonable given the minuet changes required to get polar aligned (present incredibly poor accuracy aside).   Now that I've looked into it a bit, seems many people get amazingly good polar alignment results and not sure why mine is off so much (indicating as much as 5 minutes off the pole) when I am very careful in the process.     And just thinking about what it's doing, I'm not sure what could drive the inaccuracy except an incorrect refractive compensation.    In any case, some work for me to do.   Thanks again.


uncarollo2 <chris1011@aol.com>
 

 
I wonder how much error results from using a tripod vs. a pier,  and then much variation I'll see throughout the night.    
You should be able to get polar alignment good enough and keep it so with a solid tripod. Once aligned, I have not seen a tripod change the polar alignment.
 
Good polar alignment for imaging should result in Dec drift of 1 arc sec per 10 minutes at the meridian. If you also drift align the RA at the zenith, you should then also get 1 arc sec or better drift in 10 minutes for up to 2 hours on either side of the zenith. In PHD2 you can monitor your drift using the Trend Lines. You can then make tiny adjustments to the Alt and Az while watching the trend Lines and eventually zero in on perfect PA. Do the Azimuth first until the Dec line becomes flat - ignore the RA. Then tweak the Altitude until the RA line becomes flat. Do it on an overhead star. You might have to iterate a couple of times to get both Trend lines flat for at least 5 minutes. 
 
Roland
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Terri Zittritsch <theresamarie11@...>
To: main <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Tue, Mar 10, 2020 2:17 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Notified!😍 #mach2gto #mach2gto

On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 01:59 AM, uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> wrote:
The RA and Dec drift rates indicate fairly large Polar Alignment error. It means your Polemaster is giving you a significant PA error for whatever reason. That's why I don't rely on electronic devices for polar alignment. If you want the drift rate to be zero, then you have to do drift alignment where you twiddle with the Alt and Az adjusters until the drift rates are zero (which is the definition and goal of drift alignment). Ray Graylack's Pempro does that without muss or fuss in surprisingly short time. Once I have drift alignment zeroed in, I simply attach my right angle Polar scope, place Polaris at the correct point on the dial via the push-pull adjustment and I'm good to go from then on using only the Polar scope. Of course with guiding the drift doesn't matter, but for best performance it is good to have essentially zero drift. Yerkes observatory did it in the late 1800's and they had some pretty crude methods with that 40" refractor mount. But it was good enough to allow unguided imaging for considerable time exposures.
 
Every generation of astro-imagers has to go thru this learning process, and the fundamentals never change. The 2.5 arc sec P-P excursions are almost exactly what the seeing was for that night, so that will be the best you will get under those conditions. No way anything less than a $1million active guiding system along with high power laser for forming an artificial star will do any better.
 
By the way, your Vermont skies are not too bad. In the last week I had 1.2 arc sec FWHM resolution with no guiding (simple model in the keypad only) for 2 nights, then the seeing morphed into 7.5 arc sec FWHM stars when the trade winds picked up. Sky was crystal clear but stars looked like small shaggy dogs.
 
Rolando
Thank you again Roland for your personal time here.    I think what you're telling me is that by drift aligning, and then adjusting your polar scope to put polaris in the correct position based on the drift alignment, that you're calibrating your polar scope for refraction effects at your location.   I guess you're actually moving your reticle to match where polaris is after drift aligning.   I know Polemaster is supposed to be able to account for some refractive effect, but likely not super-accurate and just some kind of calculated estimate.    Are you also saying that for a particular location, refractive effects are constant?

If the offset due to refractive effects is constant, then maybe I can estimate in polemaster.    Right now I have no idea what this might look like (how much).   I guess maybe a drift align one night with polemaster monitor running will give me my answer.     The other complication is that I have no pier or 100% stable setup.   I wonder how much error results from using a tripod vs. a pier,  and then much variation I'll see throughout the night.    


T


Terri Zittritsch
 
Edited

On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 01:59 AM, uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> wrote:
The RA and Dec drift rates indicate fairly large Polar Alignment error. It means your Polemaster is giving you a significant PA error for whatever reason. That's why I don't rely on electronic devices for polar alignment. If you want the drift rate to be zero, then you have to do drift alignment where you twiddle with the Alt and Az adjusters until the drift rates are zero (which is the definition and goal of drift alignment). Ray Graylack's Pempro does that without muss or fuss in surprisingly short time. Once I have drift alignment zeroed in, I simply attach my right angle Polar scope, place Polaris at the correct point on the dial via the push-pull adjustment and I'm good to go from then on using only the Polar scope. Of course with guiding the drift doesn't matter, but for best performance it is good to have essentially zero drift. Yerkes observatory did it in the late 1800's and they had some pretty crude methods with that 40" refractor mount. But it was good enough to allow unguided imaging for considerable time exposures.
 
Every generation of astro-imagers has to go thru this learning process, and the fundamentals never change. The 2.5 arc sec P-P excursions are almost exactly what the seeing was for that night, so that will be the best you will get under those conditions. No way anything less than a $1million active guiding system along with high power laser for forming an artificial star will do any better.
 
By the way, your Vermont skies are not too bad. In the last week I had 1.2 arc sec FWHM resolution with no guiding (simple model in the keypad only) for 2 nights, then the seeing morphed into 7.5 arc sec FWHM stars when the trade winds picked up. Sky was crystal clear but stars looked like small shaggy dogs.
 
Rolando
Thank you again Roland for your personal time here.    I think what you're telling me is that by drift aligning, and then adjusting your polar scope to put polaris in the correct position based on the drift alignment, that you're calibrating your polar scope for refraction effects at your location.   I guess you're actually moving your reticle to match where polaris is after drift aligning.   I know Polemaster is supposed to be able to account for some refractive effect, but likely not super-accurate and just some kind of calculated estimate.    Are you also saying that for a particular location, refractive effects are constant?

If the offset due to refractive effects is constant, then maybe I can estimate in polemaster.    Right now I have no idea what this might look like (how much).   I guess maybe a drift align one night with polemaster monitor running will give me my answer.     The other complication is that I have no pier or 100% stable setup.   I wonder how much error results from using a tripod vs. a pier,  and then how much variation this causes throughout the night.    


T


uncarollo2 <chris1011@aol.com>
 

 
In looking at my graph without guiding input, the center of my RA trace drifted around 6.25 arc seconds in 11 minutes (in RA).    In DEC, the trace shows only  about 3.75 arc seconds of drift in 11 minutes.      The peak to peak of the each graph was similar, and more than 2.5 arc seconds P-P.     I sent this to you in a screen shot.   I expect this is telling me that the seeing was poor at best, based on these values.
The RA and Dec drift rates indicate fairly large Polar Alignment error. It means your Polemaster is giving you a significant PA error for whatever reason. That's why I don't rely on electronic devices for polar alignment. If you want the drift rate to be zero, then you have to do drift alignment where you twiddle with the Alt and Az adjusters until the drift rates are zero (which is the definition and goal of drift alignment). Ray Graylack's Pempro does that without muss or fuss in surprisingly short time. Once I have drift alignment zeroed in, I simply attach my right angle Polar scope, place Polaris at the correct point on the dial via the push-pull adjustment and I'm good to go from then on using only the Polar scope. Of course with guiding the drift doesn't matter, but for best performance it is good to have essentially zero drift. Yerkes observatory did it in the late 1800's and they had some pretty crude methods with that 40" refractor mount. But it was good enough to allow unguided imaging for considerable time exposures.
 
Every generation of astro-imagers has to go thru this learning process, and the fundamentals never change. The 2.5 arc sec P-P excursions are almost exactly what the seeing was for that night, so that will be the best you will get under those conditions. No way anything less than a $1million active guiding system along with high power laser for forming an artificial star will do any better.
 
By the way, your Vermont skies are not too bad. In the last week I had 1.2 arc sec FWHM resolution with no guiding (simple model in the keypad only) for 2 nights, then the seeing morphed into 7.5 arc sec FWHM stars when the trade winds picked up. Sky was crystal clear but stars looked like small shaggy dogs.
 
Rolando
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Terri Zittritsch <theresamarie11@...>
To: main <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Mon, Mar 9, 2020 1:45 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Notified!😍 #mach2gto #mach2gto

On Sun, Mar 8, 2020 at 05:31 PM, uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> wrote:
1) Polemaster does not necessarily insure good polar alignment. Only drift alignment can reduce drift.
 
2) Having perfect polar alignment does not insure zero drift due to atmospheric refraction
 
3) doing a drift alignment can produce zero drift for both RA and Dec if you use the right method, but this zero drift will only occur in the area around the zenith. In other parts of the sky the stars do not move at sidereal rate, and will also drift slowly in Dec. This is fundamental, and no amount of polar alignment will prevent drift.
 
4) In our new keypad software we have added the King rate which reduces the RA drift in those parts of the sky where the sidereal rate is incorrect, however the King rate does not address Dec drift. We have modeling software in the new keypad which can be used to compensate for drift in both axes, and can allow unguided imaging. You can also go full model with APCC Pro, but I would recommend using that for permanent setups where you can spend some time getting a really good all-sky model.
 
Rolando 
 
Hi Rolando,
In looking at my graph without guiding input, the center of my RA trace drifted around 6.25 arc seconds in 11 minutes (in RA).    In DEC, the trace shows only  about 3.75 arc seconds of drift in 11 minutes.      The peak to peak of the each graph was similar, and more than 2.5 arc seconds P-P.     I sent this to you in a screen shot.   I expect this is telling me that the seeing was poor at best, based on these values.   I was still getting round stars (while actively guiding).   Such is life in Vermont under the jet stream!

I'm happy to report that I've successfully installed APCC, and set it up and at least tested it out without any clear sky.    Everything connects as it should.    Called George today, who was very helpful, to provided guidance on some of the finer points.    Now just waiting for clear skies.

Terri


Terri Zittritsch
 

On Sun, Mar 8, 2020 at 05:31 PM, uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> wrote:
1) Polemaster does not necessarily insure good polar alignment. Only drift alignment can reduce drift.
 
2) Having perfect polar alignment does not insure zero drift due to atmospheric refraction
 
3) doing a drift alignment can produce zero drift for both RA and Dec if you use the right method, but this zero drift will only occur in the area around the zenith. In other parts of the sky the stars do not move at sidereal rate, and will also drift slowly in Dec. This is fundamental, and no amount of polar alignment will prevent drift.
 
4) In our new keypad software we have added the King rate which reduces the RA drift in those parts of the sky where the sidereal rate is incorrect, however the King rate does not address Dec drift. We have modeling software in the new keypad which can be used to compensate for drift in both axes, and can allow unguided imaging. You can also go full model with APCC Pro, but I would recommend using that for permanent setups where you can spend some time getting a really good all-sky model.
 
Rolando 
 
Hi Rolando,
In looking at my graph without guiding input, the center of my RA trace drifted around 6.25 arc seconds in 11 minutes (in RA).    In DEC, the trace shows only  about 3.75 arc seconds of drift in 11 minutes.      The peak to peak of the each graph was similar, and more than 2.5 arc seconds P-P.     I sent this to you in a screen shot.   I expect this is telling me that the seeing was poor at best, based on these values.   I was still getting round stars (while actively guiding).   Such is life in Vermont under the jet stream!

I'm happy to report that I've successfully installed APCC, and set it up and at least tested it out without any clear sky.    Everything connects as it should.    Called George today, who was very helpful, to provided guidance on some of the finer points.    Now just waiting for clear skies.

Terri


uncarollo2 <chris1011@aol.com>
 

 
I polar aligned as close as I ever do with polemaster
1) Polemaster does not necessarily insure good polar alignment. Only drift alignment can reduce drift.
 
2) Having perfect polar alignment does not insure zero drift due to atmospheric refraction
 
3) doing a drift alignment can produce zero drift for both RA and Dec if you use the right method, but this zero drift will only occur in the area around the zenith. In other parts of the sky the stars do not move at sidereal rate, and will also drift slowly in Dec. This is fundamental, and no amount of polar alignment will prevent drift.
 
4) In our new keypad software we have added the King rate which reduces the RA drift in those parts of the sky where the sidereal rate is incorrect, however the King rate does not address Dec drift. We have modeling software in the new keypad which can be used to compensate for drift in both axes, and can allow unguided imaging. You can also go full model with APCC Pro, but I would recommend using that for permanent setups where you can spend some time getting a really good all-sky model.
 
Rolando 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Terri Zittritsch <theresamarie11@...>
To: main <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Sun, Mar 8, 2020 6:24 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Notified!😍 #mach2gto #mach2gto

Hi Ray, thank you for your very fast responses.    So if I might ask another follow-on:   If I install APCC, and call the telescope from either CDC or SGPro, does it call APCC then versus the V2 driver directly?    Your comment about RA rate correction intrigues me.  I didn't realize I needed APCC to be running to get good results.   I've kept my logs from last night, but it wasn't entirely what I expected.   I polar aligned as close as I ever do with polemaster, and put the PHD2 settings so I wouldn't chase-the-seeing as they say.  I did turn off guiding at one point and ran the phd tool to evaluate drift.  There was more than I expected on RA.   Is this because I'm not running APCC?     Here is where my lack of experience with AP products fails me.   
Maybe I need to bite the bullet and install APCC.

T


Joseph Beyer
 

Terri,

The software is straight forward to setup and APPM gives you the option to choose one of the standard point models or modify your model as needed for your particular needs in particular sky exposures in all directions.  You can also increase or decrease the density of modeling points depending on your needs.  It's impressive software.  I created my model offline during the day which only took a couple minutes then when I got everything setup and polar aligned opened APPM and ran the model.  I use SGP/Platesolve2 to provide APPM with the data and it took about 40 minutes for 51 points.  My system may run a bit slower than some but starting early in the evening I was able to begin imaging at the same time or earlier than I did before building the model.   

I don't use plate solving anymore as the pointing is very accurate.  Someone posted that their go-tos weren't spot on and it was pointed out that sky maps often don't place some objects, particularly nebulous ones, in the center of the field.  If you look at a plate solved object on Astrobin or whatever source, choose a star or point you'd like to be directly in the center.  Pick that in CdC and slew to it - it'll be centered nearly perfectly. 

The other features of APCC - meridian limits, horizon limits, etc. are definitely worth using as well.  The ability to slew to an object in the east and start imaging with the counterweights in an "up" position makes meridian flips a thing of the past.

Have fun, it sounds like an amazing new mount.

Joe 

On Sun, Mar 8, 2020 at 12:24 PM Terri Zittritsch <theresamarie11@...> wrote:
Thanks Joe, I'll look at it.  I guess I'm not clear on how long it takes to create a model.  I thought this a long process.  If it's just a few points, then that sounds just like I do already with blind solve or two, and then plate solving targets.   Do you use a solver for your model?



Terri


Bill Long
 

Finally, just in time for full moon. 😉 


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Wayne Hixson via Groups.Io <wayneh9026@...>
Sent: Sunday, March 8, 2020 1:36 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Notified!😍 #mach2gto #mach2gto
 
Thanks very much - the clearing is here in the northwest too!

Wayne Hixson, Stargazer


On Sunday, March 8, 2020, 12:59:13 PM PDT, Terri Zittritsch <theresamarie11@...> wrote:


On Sun, Mar 8, 2020 at 01:14 PM, Ray Gralak wrote:
You can always start APPM after twilight before it gets dark enough to image.

Depending on your camera download time and plate solve time you should be able to get 2-3 points per minute. Thus, 50 points easily in 30 minutes (25 points per side).

Thanks Ray,    Sounds like a good thing to play with on a full moon night before a little narrow band imaging.    Right now it looks like it might be clear again.    
Two days in a row after getting a new toy is unheard of.

Terri


Wayne Hixson
 

Thanks very much - the clearing is here in the northwest too!

Wayne Hixson, Stargazer


On Sunday, March 8, 2020, 12:59:13 PM PDT, Terri Zittritsch <theresamarie11@...> wrote:


On Sun, Mar 8, 2020 at 01:14 PM, Ray Gralak wrote:
You can always start APPM after twilight before it gets dark enough to image.

Depending on your camera download time and plate solve time you should be able to get 2-3 points per minute. Thus, 50 points easily in 30 minutes (25 points per side).

Thanks Ray,    Sounds like a good thing to play with on a full moon night before a little narrow band imaging.    Right now it looks like it might be clear again.    
Two days in a row after getting a new toy is unheard of.

Terri


Terri Zittritsch
 

On Sun, Mar 8, 2020 at 01:14 PM, Ray Gralak wrote:
You can always start APPM after twilight before it gets dark enough to image.

Depending on your camera download time and plate solve time you should be able to get 2-3 points per minute. Thus, 50 points easily in 30 minutes (25 points per side).

Thanks Ray,    Sounds like a good thing to play with on a full moon night before a little narrow band imaging.    Right now it looks like it might be clear again.    
Two days in a row after getting a new toy is unheard of.

Terri


Terri Zittritsch
 

Thanks Joe, I'll look at it.  I guess I'm not clear on how long it takes to create a model.  I thought this a long process.  If it's just a few points, then that sounds just like I do already with blind solve or two, and then plate solving targets.   Do you use a solver for your model?



Terri


Joseph Beyer
 

Terri,

I set up each time I image with my Mach1 and recently started using APCC-Pro/APPM.  I use Backyard Nikon, CdC and PHD2 to control the mount and camera and behind these APCC is completely transparent.  As Bill, Roland, Ray and others have mentioned APPM is straight forward to setup and really takes no time from your imaging session.  The improvement in pointing and tracking is amazing.  Given the short exposures I use with my camera, PHD2 really does little anymore except show the seeing conditions.

Joe

On Sun, Mar 8, 2020 at 10:14 AM Ray Gralak <groups3@...> wrote:
> Ok, thanks Ray.    I understand the APPM benefit but didn't think it was for those of us using the mount in a
> portable fashion.    So I have some questions into George on results.

You can always start APPM after twilight before it gets dark enough to image.

Depending on your camera download time and plate solve time you should be able to get 2-3 points per minute. Thus, 50 points easily in 30 minutes (25 points per side).

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
Author of PEMPro V3:  https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver


> -----Original Message-----
> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Terri Zittritsch
> Sent: Sunday, March 8, 2020 10:00 AM
> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Notified!😍 #mach2gto #mach2gto
>
> Ok, thanks Ray.    I understand the APPM benefit but didn't think it was for those of us using the mount in a
> portable fashion.    So I have some questions into George on results.
>
>
> Terri
>





Ray Gralak
 

Ok, thanks Ray. I understand the APPM benefit but didn't think it was for those of us using the mount in a
portable fashion. So I have some questions into George on results.
You can always start APPM after twilight before it gets dark enough to image.

Depending on your camera download time and plate solve time you should be able to get 2-3 points per minute. Thus, 50 points easily in 30 minutes (25 points per side).

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver


-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Terri Zittritsch
Sent: Sunday, March 8, 2020 10:00 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Notified!😍 #mach2gto #mach2gto

Ok, thanks Ray. I understand the APPM benefit but didn't think it was for those of us using the mount in a
portable fashion. So I have some questions into George on results.


Terri


Terri Zittritsch
 

Ok, thanks Ray.    I understand the APPM benefit but didn't think it was for those of us using the mount in a portable fashion.    So I have some questions into George on results.


Terri


Ray Gralak
 

Hi Ray, thank you for your very fast responses. So if I might ask another follow-on: If I install APCC, and call
the telescope from either CDC or SGPro, does it call APCC then versus the V2 driver directly?
No, ASCOM clients always call the AP V2 driver, which can start APCC if it is not already started, then the driver connects to APCC.

Your comment about RA rate correction intrigues me. I didn't realize I needed APCC to be running to get good results.
Just running APCC Pro initially won't make a difference in pointing and tracking rate performance. You will need to run APPM to gather data points throughout the sky via plate solving. Once the data points have been accumulated APCC can create a pointing and tracking rate model. Then you will see improvements in tracking and pointing. How much improvement depends on the repeatability and how well the pointing model terms model the telescope and camera setup that you are using.

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver


-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Terri Zittritsch
Sent: Sunday, March 8, 2020 9:24 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Notified!😍 #mach2gto #mach2gto

Hi Ray, thank you for your very fast responses. So if I might ask another follow-on: If I install APCC, and call
the telescope from either CDC or SGPro, does it call APCC then versus the V2 driver directly? Your comment
about RA rate correction intrigues me. I didn't realize I needed APCC to be running to get good results. I've kept
my logs from last night, but it wasn't entirely what I expected. I polar aligned as close as I ever do with polemaster,
and put the PHD2 settings so I wouldn't chase-the-seeing as they say. I did turn off guiding at one point and ran
the phd tool to evaluate drift. There was more than I expected on RA. Is this because I'm not running APCC?
Here is where my lack of experience with AP products fails me.
Maybe I need to bite the bullet and install APCC.

T


Terri Zittritsch
 

Hi Ray, thank you for your very fast responses.    So if I might ask another follow-on:   If I install APCC, and call the telescope from either CDC or SGPro, does it call APCC then versus the V2 driver directly?    Your comment about RA rate correction intrigues me.  I didn't realize I needed APCC to be running to get good results.   I've kept my logs from last night, but it wasn't entirely what I expected.   I polar aligned as close as I ever do with polemaster, and put the PHD2 settings so I wouldn't chase-the-seeing as they say.  I did turn off guiding at one point and ran the phd tool to evaluate drift.  There was more than I expected on RA.   Is this because I'm not running APCC?     Here is where my lack of experience with AP products fails me.   
Maybe I need to bite the bullet and install APCC.

T


Ray Gralak
 

Terri,

One question I did have. Is on the installation of APCC after I've already installed the V2 driver. It seems the V2
driver com port get updated to a virtual port, is this because the APCC program now gets the 'real port', e.g. from an
hardware RS232 connection, and then the the virtual ports are used to communicate between the V2, APCC, and
APCC to other programs and all communications back to the computer flow through APCC?
Yes, that is correct. APCC directly connects to the mount via serial port, USB, or a network. All "traffic" from the driver is routed back and forth through APCC's virtual ports. APCC by default will automatically reconfigure the AP V2 driver to use one of APCC's ports so you won't need to reconfigure the driver.

ASCOM clients will not be aware (nor do they need to be aware) of APCC so you can/should always use APCC. If you are using APCC Pro this allows pointing correction, and more importantly, tracking rate correction. ASCOM client applications like Cartes du Ciel won't even know APCC is being used.

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver


-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Terri Zittritsch
Sent: Sunday, March 8, 2020 7:52 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Notified!😍 #mach2gto #mach2gto

Hi Ray, I did find this.. and have read some of the setup information. It wasn't a poke, it was just me articulating
(maybe poorly) that I need to educate myself and figure out what I can make use of for a portable setup. But first I
need to get familiar with the rest of the mount.. and the V2 driver.

One question I did have. Is on the installation of APCC after I've already installed the V2 driver. It seems the V2
driver com port get updated to a virtual port, is this because the APCC program now gets the 'real port', e.g. from an
hardware RS232 connection, and then the the virtual ports are used to communicate between the V2, APCC, and
APCC to other programs and all communications back to the computer flow through APCC? Just trying to
understand what I'm doing when I install the APCC. And then once APCC is installed, does the V2 driver port
need to be changed if I start something like Cartes du Ciel and connect the telescope which will not use APCC?
If there is a better way to ask such things, please point me. Probably should create a new thread at a minimum..


Terri



Terri


Terri Zittritsch
 

Hi Ray, I did find this.. and have read some of the setup information.  It wasn't a poke, it was just me articulating (maybe poorly) that I need to educate myself and figure out what I can make use of for a portable setup.   But first I need to get familiar with the rest of the mount.. and the V2 driver.   

One question I did have.  Is on the installation of APCC after I've already installed the V2 driver.    It seems the V2 driver com port get updated to a virtual port, is this because the APCC program now gets the 'real port', e.g. from an hardware RS232 connection, and then the the virtual ports are used to communicate between the V2, APCC, and APCC to other programs and all communications back to the computer flow through APCC?     Just trying to understand what I'm doing when I install the APCC.    And then once APCC is installed, does the V2 driver port need to be changed if I start something like Cartes du Ciel and connect the telescope which will not use APCC?       If there is a better way to ask such things, please point me.   Probably should create a new thread at a minimum..


Terri



Terri


Ray Gralak
 

Hi Terri,

Besides the pointing model aspect of APCC/APPM I’m not very clear on what this software does for the user, but
I’ve only read the setup so far so need to dive into it more.
APCC provides numerous features. Here is a link to a list of some of them:

https://www.siriusimaging.com/Help/APCC/features.htm

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver


-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Terri Zittritsch
Sent: Saturday, March 7, 2020 7:19 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Notified!😍 #mach2gto #mach2gto

Thanks guys, I have received the mount and it’s all together and up and running. I’ve installed the v2 ascom
driver and gotten that working with cartes du ciel. This was all pretty fast and no troubles. I use EQMOD so it’s
all pretty similar. I’ve yet to try SGP but expect that will work fine.

I followed the setup instructions for the v2 driver which made that all pretty simple.

Where things get a bit confusing is with the APCC setup. I’ve read Ray’s instructions for APCC after having
already installed And setup the V2 driver and think they imply a different setup of the v2 driver with virtual ports
instead of the com port I used with the built in FTDI chip In the GTOCP5. I’m sure it’s not a huge deal to resolve,
it’s just confusing. Right now I’m thinking my first outside work will be with the V2 driver and SGPro and just
seeing how well it tracks and runs. Given I use an ASI 1600 cmos camera my exposures are typically 5 minutes
or less.

Besides the pointing model aspect of APCC/APPM I’m not very clear on what this software does for the user, but
I’ve only read the setup so far so need to dive into it more.

In general the mount is very solid and has zero play that I can feel, so it exudes quality craftsmanship.
The counterweight bar is heavy and balances my stowaway, without a weight, when it has no accessories or
imaging setup. I’m wondering if I need a 5 lb weight to tune the balance for the light scopes. So far I have only
purchased heavier weights.

So far, very happy with what I have, the real smiles will come when I can experience very good tracking. I just
need some cooperative weather now.


Terri


Wayne Hixson
 

Congratulations Terri, hope you get a chance to try it soon under dark skies, which I’m also impatiently awaiting. I’d planned to do more setup outside today until the dry forecast mysteriously changed to Chance of Showers. (Thinking Seattle should be renamed “Chance of Showers”. Somewhat surprisingly we have a pretty large and active astronomy community here and a great local retailer in Cloud Break Optics).

It’s straightforward to modify the driver settings when you go to APCC. You’ll have APCC create a couple virtual ports (George recommended higher COM ports like COM21 and COM22,  to avoid potential conflicts). Then click the Use APCC Virtual Port box in the driver and select COM21 for example. You’ll then launch APCC to connect to the mount 

I have a partially occluded setup under the eaves of my house and complex horizon of trees and houses, so I like APCC for its Horizon and Meridian mapping and meridian flip flexibility. I’ve also used it with its Horizon module to track asteroids and comets. 

Congrats again, looking forward to more reports. 

Wayne


On Mar 7, 2020, at 7:18 AM, Terri Zittritsch <theresamarie11@...> wrote:



Thanks guys, I have received the mount and it’s all together and up and running.    I’ve installed the v2 ascom driver and gotten that working with cartes du ciel.   This was all pretty fast and no troubles.   I use EQMOD so it’s all pretty similar.  I’ve yet to try SGP but expect that will work fine.  

I followed the setup instructions for the v2 driver which made that all pretty simple.  

Where things get a bit confusing is with the APCC setup.   I’ve read Ray’s instructions for APCC after having already installed And setup the V2 driver and think they imply a different setup of the v2 driver with virtual ports instead of the com port I used with the built in FTDI chip In the GTOCP5.   I’m sure it’s not  a huge deal to resolve, it’s just confusing.   Right now I’m thinking my first outside work will be with the V2 driver and SGPro and just seeing how well it tracks and runs.   Given I use an ASI 1600 cmos camera my exposures are typically 5 minutes or less.  

Besides the pointing model aspect of APCC/APPM I’m not very clear on what this software does for the user, but I’ve only read the setup so far so need to dive into it more.    

In general the mount is very solid and has zero play that I can feel, so it exudes quality craftsmanship.
The counterweight bar is heavy and balances my stowaway, without a weight, when it has no accessories or imaging setup.    I’m wondering if I need a 5 lb weight to tune the balance for the light scopes.   So far I have only purchased heavier weights.  

So far, very happy with what I have, the real smiles will come when I can experience very good tracking.  I just need some cooperative weather now.


Terri