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PEC question
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In preparation for considering APCC Pro with a goal of unguided imaging, I downloaded the PEMPro trial, and last night collected data with PEC ON in my AP1200 GTO3 with the V-chip.
Tonight I used that data to generate a PEC curve, and loaded it into the mount. Then I collected 30 minutes of tracking data with PEC ON. But I'm puzzled. As I was collecting data, the graph looked very much like the PEC OFF graph from the night before. I sort-expected a relatively straight line. Ive attached a screen shot of the data-collection graph. Hope it comes through. Not to be deterred, I continued in PEMPro, and generated a PEC curve and then a PE curve. I was surprised to see a flat line on both curves! A screen shot of the PE curve is attached.This tells me that PEC appears to be canceling the mount's PE curve. But why was the PEC ON data-collection graph so wild? What am I missing? Is the PE curve sent to the mount really correcting the PE? Thanks for all insights and guidance. I want to be sure I can program a real PE curve into the mount before I dive into APCC. --- Mike http://astronomy.mdodd.com
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>>>
I downloaded the PEMPro trial, and last night collected data with PEC ON in my AP1200 GTO3 with the V-chip. mike, if i understand this correctly that you are building a new PEC, you need to collect data with PEC off. then you create the curve, upload it, and check the results with PEC on.
On Mon, Feb 3, 2020 at 6:47 PM Mike Dodd <mike@...> wrote: In preparation for considering APCC Pro with a goal of unguided imaging, --
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Ray Gralak
Hi Mike,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
As Bryan said, you need to collect data with PEC off first and create a PEC curve from that. A flat PEC curve like what you posted could be created if you filtered or turned off all frequencies in the Create PEC curve. -Ray Gralak Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
-----Original Message-----
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On 2/3/2020 9:50 PM, Brian Valente wrote:
>>> I downloaded the PEMPro trial, and last night collected data withMy mistake; sorry. I collected data with PEC OFF last night. Everything I wrote after that is correct. --- Mike
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On 2/3/2020 10:11 PM, Ray Gralak wrote:
Hi Mike,I had PEC OFF last night when I collected the data to create the PE curve I uploaded to the mount tonight. I had PEC ON tonight when I collected data to see if the mount was using the PEC data. OK, that must be the problem. Looking closer at my "Graph of Data and Fitted PEC Curve" screen shot, I see that all the Frequency check boxes are UNchecked. I didn't do that, so PEMPro must bring up this dialog with then all unchecked. I'm still wading through the PEMPro Help document, so I must have not reached that section yet. Thanks for the tip, Ray. Am I correct to expect the Collect Data graph to be relatively flat when collecting data with a PE curve loaded in the mount and PEC turned ON? --- Mike
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>>>
Am I correct to expect the Collect Data graph to be relatively flat when collecting data with a PE curve loaded in the mount and PEC turned ON? it will be flatter, but not necessarily flat. you can also adjust the Y axis resolution to get more or less details you can also open the log files and "create curve" to see what the actual RMS Is before and after PEC (open each file individually) and compare.Â
On Mon, Feb 3, 2020 at 7:34 PM Mike Dodd <mike@...> wrote: On 2/3/2020 10:11 PM, Ray Gralak wrote: --
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Ray Gralak
Hi Mike,
My mistake; sorry. I collected data with PEC OFF last night. EverythingYour screen shot shows PEC enabled which is confusing. Instead of posting screen shots you need to post your log file with PEC disabled. Loading a PEC curve with a flat line is NOT going to do anything to improve the PE in your mount. -Ray Gralak Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver -----Original Message-----
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Ray Gralak
Am I correct to expect the Collect Data graph to be relatively flat whenPEMPro can create a PEC curve that can correct periodic errors that repeat an integral number of times per worm cycle. It cannot correct non-periodic errors caused from things like worm wheel tooth imperfections or contaminants in the grease. You would need an encoder equipped mount to surmount those. -Ray Gralak Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver -----Original Message-----
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Bill Long
Mike,
I have posted some pretty good data on PEMPro on CN:
Ray of course, is the ultimate authority, but read through this thread as there is some good data here.
🙂Â
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <groups3@...>
Sent: Monday, February 3, 2020 8:09 PM To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEC question Â
> Am I correct to expect the Collect Data graph to be relatively flat when
> collecting data with a PE curve loaded in the mount and PEC turned ON? PEMPro can create a PEC curve that can correct periodic errors that repeat an integral number of times per worm cycle. It cannot correct non-periodic errors caused from things like worm wheel tooth imperfections or contaminants in the grease. You would need an encoder equipped mount to surmount those. -Ray Gralak Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-physics.com%2Findex.htm%3Fproducts%2Faccessories%2Fsoftware%2Fapcc%2Fapcc&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc34fa7d72646487d201708d7a9280b3e%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637163861756738244&sdata=oYomfLKXkkX9aoVw3Ga42WkbszPQsSLoGHc6K91dW8E%3D&reserved=0 Author of PEMPro V3:Â https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc34fa7d72646487d201708d7a9280b3e%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637163861756738244&sdata=H7XMKcQwyHWyrdYjI%2FnaPFri0CIyU%2FUuz3hBrleBVRg%3D&reserved=0 Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc34fa7d72646487d201708d7a9280b3e%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637163861756738244&sdata=UENkAMn7EBNqkwai92GE6QYjj9x8%2FzCsMlOV6kevLZ8%3D&reserved=0 > -----Original Message----- > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mike Dodd > Sent: Monday, February 3, 2020 7:34 PM > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEC question > > On 2/3/2020 10:11 PM, Ray Gralak wrote: > > Hi Mike, > > > > As Bryan said, you need to collect data with PEC off first and create > > a PEC curve from that. > > I had PEC OFF last night when I collected the data to create the PE > curve I uploaded to the mount tonight. I had PEC ON tonight when I > collected data to see if the mount was using the PEC data. > > > > A flat PEC curve like what you posted could be created if you > > filtered or turned off all frequencies in the Create PEC curve. > > OK, that must be the problem. Looking closer at my "Graph of Data and > Fitted PEC Curve" screen shot, I see that all the Frequency check boxes > are UNchecked. I didn't do that, so PEMPro must bring up this dialog > with then all unchecked. > > I'm still wading through the PEMPro Help document, so I must have not > reached that section yet. > > Thanks for the tip, Ray. > > Am I correct to expect the Collect Data graph to be relatively flat when > collecting data with a PE curve loaded in the mount and PEC turned ON? > > --- Mike > >
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Bill Long
Agree with Ray here, post the data collection. Its a text file. I may have a few of my old runs I did before I bought the encoder kit I can share so you can see the pre and post data done accurately. I will look around and see if I archived those anywhere.Â
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <groups3@...>
Sent: Monday, February 3, 2020 8:01 PM To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEC question Â
Hi Mike,
> My mistake; sorry. I collected data with PEC OFF last night. Everything > I wrote after that is correct. Your screen shot shows PEC enabled which is confusing. Instead of posting screen shots you need to post your log file with PEC disabled. Loading a PEC curve with a flat line is NOT going to do anything to improve the PE in your mount. -Ray Gralak Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-physics.com%2Findex.htm%3Fproducts%2Faccessories%2Fsoftware%2Fapcc%2Fapcc&data=02%7C01%7C%7C7432ed42406340169aab08d7a926e09f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637163856746129825&sdata=NC7g5z%2Bj1HMzX8Sw%2FiGh8MZp%2B8NDOEWYsvPx%2F1AUXrY%3D&reserved=0 Author of PEMPro V3:Â https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C7432ed42406340169aab08d7a926e09f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637163856746139844&sdata=etIAPsZBRG9olVAJ7miet6AB3PP1DtZ0vMoxCS9PSJE%3D&reserved=0 Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&data=02%7C01%7C%7C7432ed42406340169aab08d7a926e09f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637163856746139844&sdata=H8UsXxfDinWMPQSE5xXUaC0MzgXVGU78xl5ulmrT1Aw%3D&reserved=0 > -----Original Message----- > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mike Dodd > Sent: Monday, February 3, 2020 7:13 PM > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEC question > > On 2/3/2020 9:50 PM, Brian Valente wrote: > >Â >>> I downloaded the PEMPro trial, and last night collected data with > > PEC ON in my AP1200 GTO3 with the V-chip. > > > > mike, if i understand this correctly that you are building a new PEC, > > you need to collect data with PEC off. then you create the curve, upload > > it, and check the results with PEC on. > > My mistake; sorry. I collected data with PEC OFF last night. Everything > I wrote after that is correct. > > --- Mike > > >
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Bill do i assume correctly that since you added the encoders you don't do PEC anymore?
On Mon, Feb 3, 2020 at 9:32 PM Bill Long <bill@...> wrote:
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Bill Long
Correct, there is no need to as the encoders correct for RA PE. Among other things, of course.Â
If anyone here wants live eyes on their PEMPro runs for PE Correction I am more than happy to TeamView in and help out. I have probably done that about a good 50 times for CN members.
🙂Â
The encoder kit, by the way, is worth the money. For reasons other than just RA PE.Â
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Brian Valente <bvalente@...>
Sent: Monday, February 3, 2020 9:52 PM To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEC question Â
Bill do i assume correctly that since you added the encoders you don't do PEC anymore?
On Mon, Feb 3, 2020 at 9:32 PM Bill Long <bill@...> wrote:
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I apologize for clouding this thread from the start. I mistakenly stated that PEC was ON while collecting the initial PE data from the AP1200. In fact, PEC was turned OFF during that run.
I added to the confusion by posting a screen shot that showed PEC ON. That was shot while I was collecting data AFTER loading a PEC curve to the mount, to see how much improvement it made. To be clear: I understand PE and how PEMPro collects PE data (PEC OFF), creates a PEC curve and sends it to the mount, and how PEMPro can show how well that curve is working (PEC ON). I did this back in 2008 with PEMProAP that came with the AP1200 I'd purchased second-hand. But in the interim, I forgot about checking the boxes to enable certain fundamental frequencies before building the PEC curve (thanks, Ray, for reminding me). I'm currently reading through the PEMPro help file, and will ensure I have everything set correctly before generating a new PEC curve from my collected data. Again, I apologize for muddying the waters. Thanks to everyone who noticed my errors and sent helpful replies. -- Mike Mike Dodd Louisa County, Virginia USA http://astronomy.mdodd.com
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