Date
1 - 20 of 25
Unguided imaging with Mach2
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Roland Christen
Hello Astro geeks,
I had a window of opportunity to image just before Christmas with reasonable temps where i wasn't freezing my fingertips.
I did a better polar alignment and ran a very quick model with just 3 points. One was on a star near NGC7331 and the other two points were on either side about 1 hour apart. The object was 3 hours past the meridian in the West, so with no guiding and no model there was some drifting in both Ra and Dec (Dec is up in the image). The first picture shows closeup of the center and you can see the egg shape after a 5 min exposure (no guide, no model):
To be continued
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Roland Christen
-----Original Message-----
From: uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via Groups.Io <chris1011@...> To: main <main@ap-gto.groups.io>; main <main@ap-ug.groups.io> Sent: Fri, Dec 27, 2019 5:40 pm Subject: [ap-gto] Unguided imaging with Mach2 Hello Astro geeks,
I had a window of opportunity to image just before Christmas with reasonable temps where i wasn't freezing my fingertips.
I did a better polar alignment and ran a very quick model with just 3 points. One was on a star near NGC7331 and the other two points were on either side about 1 hour apart. The object was 3 hours past the meridian in the West, so with no guiding and no model there was some drifting in both Ra and Dec (Dec is up in the image). The first picture shows closeup of the center and you can see the egg shape after a 5 min exposure (no guide, no model):
To be continued
Below is the same area imaged with 15 minutes exposure unguided but with the model turned ON. The result is certainly good and I believe that with a good model the stars will be tighter and rounder than you might get with guiding. That's because the mount moved very smoothly in both axes, whereas during guiding it may be bouncing around more because there is always a tendency to chase the seeing to some extent. next chance I get will be to do 1/2 hour of narrowband with a more comprehensive drift model.
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Allen Ruckle
John, This may interest you. it and the next email are a demonstration of using modeling with the Mach2. can you model with your AP 1100? Allen Ruckle
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15' is great.
But It is indeed a test made with the simple model configured with the keypad? |
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Roland Christen
15' is great. Yes, it uses a simple tracking model that measured drift in 3 places near the object to be imaged. The program will be available in the new keypad software. Also included will be pointing correction and orthogonality correction modeling.
Rolando
-----Original Message-----
From: Dominique Durand via Groups.Io <dom33.durand@...> To: main <main@ap-gto.groups.io> Sent: Sat, Dec 28, 2019 6:15 am Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Unguided imaging with Mach2 15' is great.
But It is indeed a test made with the simple model of monitoring configured with the keyboard? |
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Dominique Durand
On Sat, Dec 28, 2019 at 05:23 PM, uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> wrote:
I doubted a little, but nothing more. I realize how lucky I will soon be to be able to use this wonder. |
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Joseph Beyer
This is definitely a great new feature. Since I set up each time to image, creating a pointing model with APPM isn't practical. Would the new tracking model in the handset be active during auto guiding and help keep things on track more precisely than just using the autoguider itself? Joe On Sat, Dec 28, 2019 at 8:23 AM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via Groups.Io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
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Wayne Hixson
Can the models run simultaneously?
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On Dec 28, 2019, at 8:23 AM, uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via Groups.Io <chris1011@...> wrote:
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Bill Long
How is creating a model not practical? You can complete the model prior to Astro Dark rather easily and not lose any imaging time.
I set up each time I image and almost always build a model. The only times I've skipped it were nights of quick testing or things like that.
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Joseph Beyer <jcbeyer2001@...>
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2019 10:21 AM To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Unguided imaging with Mach2 This is definitely a great new feature. Since I set up each time to image, creating a pointing model with APPM isn't practical. Would the new tracking model in the handset be active during auto guiding and help keep things on track more precisely
than just using the autoguider itself?
Joe
On Sat, Dec 28, 2019 at 8:23 AM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via Groups.Io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
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I think he was referring to building the more comprehensive model in apcc and a hand unit simpler version would be more expedient? Brian On Sat, Dec 28, 2019 at 10:41 AM Bill Long <bill@...> wrote:
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Roland Christen
Would the new tracking model in the handset be active during auto guiding and help keep things on track more precisely than just using the autoguider itself? Yes, it would make guiding very much easier.
Rolando
-----Original Message-----
From: Joseph Beyer <jcbeyer2001@...> To: main <main@ap-gto.groups.io> Sent: Sat, Dec 28, 2019 12:21 pm Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Unguided imaging with Mach2 This is definitely a great new feature. Since I set up each time to image, creating a pointing model with APPM isn't practical. Would the new tracking model in the handset be active during auto guiding and help keep things on track more precisely than just using the autoguider itself?
Joe
On Sat, Dec 28, 2019 at 8:23 AM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via Groups.Io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
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Roland Christen
Can the models run simultaneously? Yes. They are independent of each other and can run altogether.
Rolando
-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne Hixson via Groups.Io <wayneh9026@...> To: main <main@ap-gto.groups.io> Sent: Sat, Dec 28, 2019 12:36 pm Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Unguided imaging with Mach2 Can the models run simultaneously?
On Dec 28, 2019, at 8:23 AM, uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via Groups.Io <chris1011@...> wrote:
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Wayne Hixson
For someone with a Mach1 and no encoders, would it make sense to run PEC along with the model?
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On Dec 28, 2019, at 11:05 AM, uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via Groups.Io <chris1011@...> wrote:
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Roland Christen
Yes, PE correction would definitely make the unguided imaging model work properly. Without that you will have periodic error as well as drift and making a tracking model would make no sense. In order to get no drift in Ra during a 5 or 10 minute exposure, your mount must be capable of having very low periodic error. In a non-encoder mount that can only happen if you have a PE curve that can compensate for the PE of your mount.
Rolando
-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne Hixson via Groups.Io <wayneh9026@...> To: main <main@ap-gto.groups.io> Sent: Sat, Dec 28, 2019 1:25 pm Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Unguided imaging with Mach2 For someone with a Mach1 and no encoders, would it make sense to run PEC along with the model?
On Dec 28, 2019, at 11:05 AM, uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via Groups.Io <chris1011@...> wrote:
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Rick Socarras
I do not YET have an Astro Physics mount. I am expecting delivery of the Mach 2 when they start to ship. So my question may not be relevant but I'm curious as to plate solving and if that brings anything to the table? Will plate solving further enhance accuracy and is it even available on the Mach 2?
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Joseph Beyer
Bill, Thanks for the information. From previous posts you've mentioned you use APPM often. I believe I've seen an image or two of your setup on your deck and it didn't look permanent - wondered how that all worked...now I know. I should have clarified, the impracticality of using the comprehensive APPM model for me is due to the software I'm using. Last I looked APCC Pro/APPM modeling won't support image acquisition using Backyard Nikon and plate solving with Astrotortilla. I image with a full spectrum modified Nikon D800 and it works well with the programs I've got. In the past year in SF Bay Area we've had so few good nights for imaging from my backyard that I haven't felt like tempting fate by trying to set up anything else. Brian made exactly the point I was alluding to as the hand unit program would be much simpler and would probably work with the system I've got it. In a later post Roland also clarified several points among previous them the tracking model would likely provide more of a benefit with longer focal length scopes. The image scale with my FSQ-106 and D800 is 1.9 arc-sec/pixel so it may not be all that beneficial for me. But if it helps the auto guiding it just may. There have been many completely clear nights I've headed out to image but the seeing makes the PHD2 graph look like everything is completely broken. Some nights I'll let it run and the graphs completely flatten out over a couple hours and then others not so much. Clearly if the seeing is that bad I probably don't want to be imaging anyway but if the hand controller tracking model helps out with the less severe nights it's a plus. Joe On Sat, Dec 28, 2019 at 10:51 AM Brian Valente <bvalente@...> wrote:
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Roland Christen
I'm curious as to plate solving and if that brings anything to the table? Plate solving is not a mount function. There are plate solve apps which you can use to measure the offsets and other programs that will tell the mount to go to the desired position according to the plate solve results. MaximDL is such a program that can do this, along with a slew of other software.
Rolando
-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Socarras <tgrick@...> To: main <main@ap-gto.groups.io> Sent: Sat, Dec 28, 2019 3:07 pm Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Unguided imaging with Mach2 I do not YET have an Astro Physics mount. I am expecting delivery of the Mach 2 when they start to ship. So my question may not be relevant but I'm curious as to plate solving and if that brings anything to the table? Will plate solving further enhance accuracy and is it even available on the Mach 2?
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Wayne Hixson
A “slew” of other software Lol! I see what you did there
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On Dec 28, 2019, at 1:59 PM, uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via Groups.Io <chris1011@...> wrote:
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Bill Long
Correct, Nikon cameras are not ASCOM compliant (that I am aware of) and AT is not supported as a plate solver. I am looking forward to trying out the new hand control modeling.
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Joseph Beyer <jcbeyer2001@...>
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2019 1:11 PM To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Unguided imaging with Mach2 Bill,
Thanks for the information. From previous posts you've mentioned you use APPM often. I believe I've seen an image or two of your setup on your deck and it didn't look permanent - wondered how that all worked...now I know. I should have clarified, the
impracticality of using the comprehensive APPM model for me is due to the software I'm using. Last I looked APCC Pro/APPM modeling won't support image acquisition using Backyard Nikon and plate solving with Astrotortilla. I image with a full spectrum modified
Nikon D800 and it works well with the programs I've got. In the past year in SF Bay Area we've had so few good nights for imaging from my backyard that I haven't felt like tempting fate by trying to set up anything else. Brian made exactly the point I was
alluding to as the hand unit program would be much simpler and would probably work with the system I've got it.
In a later post Roland also clarified several points among previous them the tracking model would likely provide more of a benefit with longer focal length scopes. The image scale with my FSQ-106 and D800 is 1.9 arc-sec/pixel so it may not be all that
beneficial for me. But if it helps the auto guiding it just may. There have been many completely clear nights I've headed out to image but the seeing makes the PHD2 graph look like everything is completely broken. Some nights I'll let it run and the graphs
completely flatten out over a couple hours and then others not so much. Clearly if the seeing is that bad I probably don't want to be imaging anyway but if the hand controller tracking model helps out with the less severe nights it's a plus.
Joe
On Sat, Dec 28, 2019 at 10:51 AM Brian Valente <bvalente@...> wrote:
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Sounds like a very interesting addition to the hand controller features. The question I have is whether it is a download upgrade to the existing controller or only available on a brand new hand controller. The reason I ask is because I have both a AP 900 and new AP 1100 mount. I have only one hand controller which is swapped between mounts (one is permanent setup and other mount goes to star parties). I have though about getting a second hand controller but have been holding out for a few years to see if there will be a completely new version. The one I have now has all the current updates installed.
I know that I can run the mounts from my computer when imaging and I do that....but sometimes I prefer the hand controller for fast visual observing. |
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