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Off Topic - repetitive TeamViewer Screw-ups

Joe Zeglinski
 

Hi Guys,
 
    Yet another warning about relying on running TeamViewer for “remote INTERNET access” for your AP-Mount telescope control – using their free, non-commercial license.
 
    An 82-year old friend, a senior lady I occasionally help out,  by using TeamViewer to remotely support her “Personal, non-commercial” PC use – got locked out again,  for the THIRD time -  since August. This latest reconnection, which took weeks to re-negotiate with that German company,  lasted only about 2 or 3 weeks.  She ran the program just a couple of times since then,  to check emails with her twin sister’s PC – before TeamViewer’s  customer “SPY PROGRAM” decided it might be used commercially.
 
    I wonder if the fact that she uses her PC   in a 30-story Condo-Tower residence,  makes the Snooper module think that it might be “Business Tower”. If it can snoop on the building’s  Internet trunk from her TV connection, then it could have found that there is just one other ISP and TV  serviced cable system (besides BELL), in that residential tower. So, it may seem like an “office tower” to the Spy module.
 
     Has anyone else here, who has also been locked out by TeamViewer’s shabby practice, also happen to connect via Internet login,  from a large multi-family high-rise residence, like hers? Maybe THAT is the hidden bug in TeamViewer.
 
    TeamViewer is reliable,  but can ONLY be trusted,  if logged into in-house, on a local WAN or LAN,  to control your backyard telescope’s  AP-mount, as I do. But, if you login with your TeamViewer Internet  ID account number, through their corporate server in Germany, you run the risk of getting cancelled without warning, and be without your telescope access for weeks. That can be disastrous if you need it for  photographing a certain target, or have  scheduled valuable vacation time. Luckily, so far for me, TeamViewer doesn’t seem to bother snooping on its use of communications limited to  inside the walls of a single family residence.
 
    Just a thought – and looking for another,  safer, free program, which is as easy to use via the Internet, but without such TeamViewer-like corporate  hassles.
 
Joe Z.
Victoria Berger
 

I am also locked out of TeamViewer.  For what it's worth, I figured out what I did that got me labeled a "commercial" user.

I am in the habit of double clicking certain things, single clicking others.  When I tried to start a TeamViewer session to my observatory computer, I would sometimes double-click the computer name from within TeamViewer.  On the screen that I connect from (I recognize there are multiple ways to connect) double-clicking starts TWO sessions to the computer.  After closing the session another session would remain open.

I connect to my observatory from both work and at home.  Well, I had an open session from work (that I thought was closed) and connected again from home and was instantly labeled a commercial user.   I spoke with their reps, they said they don't care that it's not *actual* commercial use, if their system thinks it's commercial then that's all that matters.  They offered me a "deal", a year for "only" $500.  No thanks.

I tried Team Viewer again a few weeks later and it worked fine, until I again had an extra accidental session, this time both from my home computer, and then I was done.  I can now only use Team Viewer for about a minute before it kicks me out.

I have switched to SplashTop.  It isn't free, but it's only $100 a year.  I don't mind paying for stuff I use, but it needs to be a fair price.  TeamViewer isn't worth $500 a year, it's worth about $100 a year, to me.  SplashTop fit the bill, and works equally well as TeamViewer, if not a little better.
Cheng-Yang Tan
 

Hi guys,

   I dumped TeamViewer after their ridiculous snooping program accused me of being a commercial user. It turns out that reading email with TeamViewer violates their policy: See Why do I see 'Commercial use suspected' / 'Commercial use detected'


Quote:
*******************

Commercial use applies to home office:

If you use TeamViewer for home office, it is commercial use – even if you just quickly connect to your work computer to check your emails. It does not depend on whether you register your TeamViewer Account with your personal or company email address.

*****************************


So what's my solution? I use VNC which is *free*. I've checked out TightVNC, TigerVNC and UltraVNC servers on my Win10 computer. And I've found UltraVNC to be both fast and reliable.

To view my Win10 computer from my Mac, I use the RealVNC viewer which is also free. Mac has a built in VNC viewer as well, but I found RealVNC viewer to be better.

And if you want to use VNC remotely away from your home network, you can use ssh tunneling. Note: I did this years ago so no current advice from me. But the procedure is available through google.


YMMV

cytan






On Tuesday, December 10, 2019, 10:14:01 PM CST, Joe Zeglinski <j.zeglinski@...> wrote:


Hi Guys,
 
    Yet another warning about relying on running TeamViewer for “remote INTERNET access” for your AP-Mount telescope control – using their free, non-commercial license.
 
    An 82-year old friend, a senior lady I occasionally help out,  by using TeamViewer to remotely support her “Personal, non-commercial” PC use – got locked out again,  for the THIRD time -  since August. This latest reconnection, which took weeks to re-negotiate with that German company,  lasted only about 2 or 3 weeks.  She ran the program just a couple of times since then,  to check emails with her twin sister’s PC – before TeamViewer’s  customer “SPY PROGRAM” decided it might be used commercially.
 
    I wonder if the fact that she uses her PC   in a 30-story Condo-Tower residence,  makes the Snooper module think that it might be “Business Tower”. If it can snoop on the building’s  Internet trunk from her TV connection, then it could have found that there is just one other ISP and TV  serviced cable system (besides BELL), in that residential tower. So, it may seem like an “office tower” to the Spy module.
 
     Has anyone else here, who has also been locked out by TeamViewer’s shabby practice, also happen to connect via Internet login,  from a large multi-family high-rise residence, like hers? Maybe THAT is the hidden bug in TeamViewer.
 
    TeamViewer is reliable,  but can ONLY be trusted,  if logged into in-house, on a local WAN or LAN,  to control your backyard telescope’s  AP-mount, as I do. But, if you login with your TeamViewer Internet  ID account number, through their corporate server in Germany, you run the risk of getting cancelled without warning, and be without your telescope access for weeks. That can be disastrous if you need it for  photographing a certain target, or have  scheduled valuable vacation time. Luckily, so far for me, TeamViewer doesn’t seem to bother snooping on its use of communications limited to  inside the walls of a single family residence.
 
    Just a thought – and looking for another,  safer, free program, which is as easy to use via the Internet, but without such TeamViewer-like corporate  hassles.
 
Joe Z.
dvjbaja
 

I had this problem with Team Viewer last year and it took a written statement from me to prove that I was using TV for private, non-commercial use. About a month later, they approved my use and turned me back on, but stated they would randomly check and could terminate my personal usage at any time.  Since then, I have successfully used Google Chrome Remote. Free, and actually is a lower latency connection with no frequent disconnects like I was having with Team Viewer.  

Team Viewer is focused on commercial paying customers. There are other remote connection options. 

John G. 
Rainer
 

Same happened to me a few times, I explained them a few times I am not a commercial user but all in vane and so I deleted TeamViewer and since then I am using AnyDesk 

regards Rainer
Joe Zeglinski
 

Hi Cheng,
 
   You probably weren’t cut off by TV, for simply “reading email” – BUT rather ... for reading email “on a corporate site”.
That sets off TV alarm bells! The Snooper program can quite easily examine the source and destination IP addresses, and fairly easily Ping to check that the remote site was NOT actually a private home, but rather was a business. Probably as easy as “SHARING your session” – just as TV already provides the average user, but TeamViewer’s AI  uses this itself as well -  then it probably uses the IP  that the AI finds to look-up a database,  if it is inside any kind of known (registered) company.
 
    Basic rule for using non-commercial TeamViewer license – do NOT login to YOUR company PC – since you are obviously a “company employee. working form home”. You are then fair game, just  acting as part of a business.
 
    In my case, I suspect it pinged the senior lady and probably found the condo tower’s, cable provider  own (in-building) remote server BOX,  and bingo – it sure looks like “a company”. Even a programmer not using AI, would come to the same human conclusion.  Of course, it is only my “conjecture”, that apartment buildings might be wired with a small server module, installed  by a major cable & internet provider, under contract. So, having been banned 3 times in 3 months, it is quite likely that the free non-commercial use of TeamViewer really only works in a SMALL, innocuous, residence that has only one cable service connection. If there are many more, then it “ sure looks like a business”.
 
    TeamViewer’s  AI Snooper is not so smart that it can’t “outwit itself”.
 
    I’ve done a few brief tests with TightVNC, in-house between two PC’s, and it looks almost as good as TeamViewer – having same options  such as remote file transfer, with none of the commercial use hassles. The next big test is to actually link with a remote user in that “condo tower”. Just a bit of trepidation right now about having to set up ( Gulp !!!),  remote PC firewalls, and ports etc.
 
Joe Z.
 

From: Cheng-Yang Tan via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2019 8:04 AM
To: ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Off Topic - repetitive TeamViewer Screw-ups
 
Hi guys,
 
   I dumped TeamViewer after their ridiculous snooping program accused me of being a commercial user. It turns out that reading email with TeamViewer violates their policy: See Why do I see 'Commercial use suspected' / 'Commercial use detected'
 
 
Quote:
*******************
 
Commercial use applies to home office:
 
If you use TeamViewer for home office, it is commercial use – even if you just quickly connect to your work computer to check your emails. It does not depend on whether you register your TeamViewer Account with your personal or company email address.
 
*****************************
 
 
So what's my solution? I use VNC which is *free*. I've checked out TightVNC, TigerVNC and UltraVNC servers on my Win10 computer. And I've found UltraVNC to be both fast and reliable.
 
To view my Win10 computer from my Mac, I use the RealVNC viewer which is also free. Mac has a built in VNC viewer as well, but I found RealVNC viewer to be better.
 
And if you want to use VNC remotely away from your home network, you can use ssh tunneling. Note: I did this years ago so no current advice from me. But the procedure is available through google.
 
 
YMMV
 
cytan
 
 
 
 
 
 
On Tuesday, December 10, 2019, 10:14:01 PM CST, Joe Zeglinski <j.zeglinski@...> wrote:
 
 
Hi Guys,
 
    Yet another warning about relying on running TeamViewer for “remote INTERNET access” for your AP-Mount telescope control – using their free, non-commercial license.
 
    An 82-year old friend, a senior lady I occasionally help out,  by using TeamViewer to remotely support her “Personal, non-commercial” PC use – got locked out again,  for the THIRD time -  since August. This latest reconnection, which took weeks to re-negotiate with that German company,  lasted only about 2 or 3 weeks.  She ran the program just a couple of times since then,  to check emails with her twin sister’s PC – before TeamViewer’s  customer “SPY PROGRAM” decided it might be used commercially.
 
    I wonder if the fact that she uses her PC   in a 30-story Condo-Tower residence,  makes the Snooper module think that it might be “Business Tower”. If it can snoop on the building’s  Internet trunk from her TV connection, then it could have found that there is just one other ISP and TV  serviced cable system (besides BELL), in that residential tower. So, it may seem like an “office tower” to the Spy module.
 
     Has anyone else here, who has also been locked out by TeamViewer’s shabby practice, also happen to connect via Internet login,  from a large multi-family high-rise residence, like hers? Maybe THAT is the hidden bug in TeamViewer.
 
    TeamViewer is reliable,  but can ONLY be trusted,  if logged into in-house, on a local WAN or LAN,  to control your backyard telescope’s  AP-mount, as I do. But, if you login with your TeamViewer Internet  ID account number, through their corporate server in Germany, you run the risk of getting cancelled without warning, and be without your telescope access for weeks. That can be disastrous if you need it for  photographing a certain target, or have  scheduled valuable vacation time. Luckily, so far for me, TeamViewer doesn’t seem to bother snooping on its use of communications limited to  inside the walls of a single family residence.
 
    Just a thought – and looking for another,  safer, free program, which is as easy to use via the Internet, but without such TeamViewer-like corporate  hassles.
 
Joe Z.
Cheng-Yang Tan
 

Hi Joe,
   I found TV definition of "non-commercial" to be too onerous. 

    Anyhow, I'd suggest looking at UltraVNC. At least on my home network, it's not only a lot faster, it is also stable.

 As usual YMMV

cytan

On Wednesday, December 11, 2019, 11:51:41 AM CST, Joe Zeglinski <j.zeglinski@...> wrote:


Hi Cheng,
 
   You probably weren’t cut off by TV, for simply “reading email” – BUT rather ... for reading email “on a corporate site”.
That sets off TV alarm bells! The Snooper program can quite easily examine the source and destination IP addresses, and fairly easily Ping to check that the remote site was NOT actually a private home, but rather was a business. Probably as easy as “SHARING your session” – just as TV already provides the average user, but TeamViewer’s AI  uses this itself as well -  then it probably uses the IP  that the AI finds to look-up a database,  if it is inside any kind of known (registered) company.
 
    Basic rule for using non-commercial TeamViewer license – do NOT login to YOUR company PC – since you are obviously a “company employee. working form home”. You are then fair game, just  acting as part of a business.
 
    In my case, I suspect it pinged the senior lady and probably found the condo tower’s, cable provider  own (in-building) remote server BOX,  and bingo – it sure looks like “a company”. Even a programmer not using AI, would come to the same human conclusion.  Of course, it is only my “conjecture”, that apartment buildings might be wired with a small server module, installed  by a major cable & internet provider, under contract. So, having been banned 3 times in 3 months, it is quite likely that the free non-commercial use of TeamViewer really only works in a SMALL, innocuous, residence that has only one cable service connection. If there are many more, then it “ sure looks like a business”.
 
    TeamViewer’s  AI Snooper is not so smart that it can’t “outwit itself”.
 
    I’ve done a few brief tests with TightVNC, in-house between two PC’s, and it looks almost as good as TeamViewer – having same options  such as remote file transfer, with none of the commercial use hassles. The next big test is to actually link with a remote user in that “condo tower”. Just a bit of trepidation right now about having to set up ( Gulp !!!),  remote PC firewalls, and ports etc.
 
Joe Z.
 

From: Cheng-Yang Tan via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2019 8:04 AM
To: ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Off Topic - repetitive TeamViewer Screw-ups
 
Hi guys,
 
   I dumped TeamViewer after their ridiculous snooping program accused me of being a commercial user. It turns out that reading email with TeamViewer violates their policy: See Why do I see 'Commercial use suspected' / 'Commercial use detected'
 
 
Quote:
*******************
 
Commercial use applies to home office:
 
If you use TeamViewer for home office, it is commercial use – even if you just quickly connect to your work computer to check your emails. It does not depend on whether you register your TeamViewer Account with your personal or company email address.
 
*****************************
 
 
So what's my solution? I use VNC which is *free*. I've checked out TightVNC, TigerVNC and UltraVNC servers on my Win10 computer. And I've found UltraVNC to be both fast and reliable.
 
To view my Win10 computer from my Mac, I use the RealVNC viewer which is also free. Mac has a built in VNC viewer as well, but I found RealVNC viewer to be better.
 
And if you want to use VNC remotely away from your home network, you can use ssh tunneling. Note: I did this years ago so no current advice from me. But the procedure is available through google.
 
 
YMMV
 
cytan
 
 
 
 
 
 
On Tuesday, December 10, 2019, 10:14:01 PM CST, Joe Zeglinski <j.zeglinski@...> wrote:
 
 
Hi Guys,
 
    Yet another warning about relying on running TeamViewer for “remote INTERNET access” for your AP-Mount telescope control – using their free, non-commercial license.
 
    An 82-year old friend, a senior lady I occasionally help out,  by using TeamViewer to remotely support her “Personal, non-commercial” PC use – got locked out again,  for the THIRD time -  since August. This latest reconnection, which took weeks to re-negotiate with that German company,  lasted only about 2 or 3 weeks.  She ran the program just a couple of times since then,  to check emails with her twin sister’s PC – before TeamViewer’s  customer “SPY PROGRAM” decided it might be used commercially.
 
    I wonder if the fact that she uses her PC   in a 30-story Condo-Tower residence,  makes the Snooper module think that it might be “Business Tower”. If it can snoop on the building’s  Internet trunk from her TV connection, then it could have found that there is just one other ISP and TV  serviced cable system (besides BELL), in that residential tower. So, it may seem like an “office tower” to the Spy module.
 
     Has anyone else here, who has also been locked out by TeamViewer’s shabby practice, also happen to connect via Internet login,  from a large multi-family high-rise residence, like hers? Maybe THAT is the hidden bug in TeamViewer.
 
    TeamViewer is reliable,  but can ONLY be trusted,  if logged into in-house, on a local WAN or LAN,  to control your backyard telescope’s  AP-mount, as I do. But, if you login with your TeamViewer Internet  ID account number, through their corporate server in Germany, you run the risk of getting cancelled without warning, and be without your telescope access for weeks. That can be disastrous if you need it for  photographing a certain target, or have  scheduled valuable vacation time. Luckily, so far for me, TeamViewer doesn’t seem to bother snooping on its use of communications limited to  inside the walls of a single family residence.
 
    Just a thought – and looking for another,  safer, free program, which is as easy to use via the Internet, but without such TeamViewer-like corporate  hassles.
 
Joe Z.
Maarten Vanleenhove
 

UltraVNC is not secure, even when using an encryption plugin. The password can only be 8 characters (embedded in protocol) so a brute force attack is quite easy.
Take a look at NoMachine for a free and secure solution.

kind regards,

Maarten

Op 11/12/2019 om 20:20 schreef Cheng-Yang Tan via Groups.Io:

Hi Joe,
   I found TV definition of "non-commercial" to be too onerous. 

    Anyhow, I'd suggest looking at UltraVNC. At least on my home network, it's not only a lot faster, it is also stable.

 As usual YMMV

cytan

On Wednesday, December 11, 2019, 11:51:41 AM CST, Joe Zeglinski <j.zeglinski@...> wrote:


Hi Cheng,
 
   You probably weren’t cut off by TV, for simply “reading email” – BUT rather ... for reading email “on a corporate site”.
That sets off TV alarm bells! The Snooper program can quite easily examine the source and destination IP addresses, and fairly easily Ping to check that the remote site was NOT actually a private home, but rather was a business. Probably as easy as “SHARING your session” – just as TV already provides the average user, but TeamViewer’s AI  uses this itself as well -  then it probably uses the IP  that the AI finds to look-up a database,  if it is inside any kind of known (registered) company.
 
    Basic rule for using non-commercial TeamViewer license – do NOT login to YOUR company PC – since you are obviously a “company employee. working form home”. You are then fair game, just  acting as part of a business.
 
    In my case, I suspect it pinged the senior lady and probably found the condo tower’s, cable provider  own (in-building) remote server BOX,  and bingo – it sure looks like “a company”. Even a programmer not using AI, would come to the same human conclusion.  Of course, it is only my “conjecture”, that apartment buildings might be wired with a small server module, installed  by a major cable & internet provider, under contract. So, having been banned 3 times in 3 months, it is quite likely that the free non-commercial use of TeamViewer really only works in a SMALL, innocuous, residence that has only one cable service connection. If there are many more, then it “ sure looks like a business”.
 
    TeamViewer’s  AI Snooper is not so smart that it can’t “outwit itself”.
 
    I’ve done a few brief tests with TightVNC, in-house between two PC’s, and it looks almost as good as TeamViewer – having same options  such as remote file transfer, with none of the commercial use hassles. The next big test is to actually link with a remote user in that “condo tower”. Just a bit of trepidation right now about having to set up ( Gulp !!!),  remote PC firewalls, and ports etc.
 
Joe Z.
 
From: Cheng-Yang Tan via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2019 8:04 AM
To: ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Off Topic - repetitive TeamViewer Screw-ups
 
Hi guys,
 
   I dumped TeamViewer after their ridiculous snooping program accused me of being a commercial user. It turns out that reading email with TeamViewer violates their policy: See Why do I see 'Commercial use suspected' / 'Commercial use detected'
 

Why do I see 'Commercial use suspected' / 'Commercial use detected'

Read this article in Chinese | French | German | Japanese | Spanish This article applies to TeamViewer users wi...
 
Quote:
*******************
 
Commercial use applies to home office:
 
If you use TeamViewer for home office, it is commercial use – even if you just quickly connect to your work computer to check your emails. It does not depend on whether you register your TeamViewer Account with your personal or company email address.
 
*****************************
 
 
So what's my solution? I use VNC which is *free*. I've checked out TightVNC, TigerVNC and UltraVNC servers on my Win10 computer. And I've found UltraVNC to be both fast and reliable.
 
To view my Win10 computer from my Mac, I use the RealVNC viewer which is also free. Mac has a built in VNC viewer as well, but I found RealVNC viewer to be better.
 
And if you want to use VNC remotely away from your home network, you can use ssh tunneling. Note: I did this years ago so no current advice from me. But the procedure is available through google.
 
 
YMMV
 
cytan
 
 
 
 
 
 
On Tuesday, December 10, 2019, 10:14:01 PM CST, Joe Zeglinski <j.zeglinski@...> wrote:
 
 
Hi Guys,
 
    Yet another warning about relying on running TeamViewer for “remote INTERNET access” for your AP-Mount telescope control – using their free, non-commercial license.
 
    An 82-year old friend, a senior lady I occasionally help out,  by using TeamViewer to remotely support her “Personal, non-commercial” PC use – got locked out again,  for the THIRD time -  since August. This latest reconnection, which took weeks to re-negotiate with that German company,  lasted only about 2 or 3 weeks.  She ran the program just a couple of times since then,  to check emails with her twin sister’s PC – before TeamViewer’s  customer “SPY PROGRAM” decided it might be used commercially.
 
    I wonder if the fact that she uses her PC   in a 30-story Condo-Tower residence,  makes the Snooper module think that it might be “Business Tower”. If it can snoop on the building’s  Internet trunk from her TV connection, then it could have found that there is just one other ISP and TV  serviced cable system (besides BELL), in that residential tower. So, it may seem like an “office tower” to the Spy module.
 
     Has anyone else here, who has also been locked out by TeamViewer’s shabby practice, also happen to connect via Internet login,  from a large multi-family high-rise residence, like hers? Maybe THAT is the hidden bug in TeamViewer.
 
    TeamViewer is reliable,  but can ONLY be trusted,  if logged into in-house, on a local WAN or LAN,  to control your backyard telescope’s  AP-mount, as I do. But, if you login with your TeamViewer Internet  ID account number, through their corporate server in Germany, you run the risk of getting cancelled without warning, and be without your telescope access for weeks. That can be disastrous if you need it for  photographing a certain target, or have  scheduled valuable vacation time. Luckily, so far for me, TeamViewer doesn’t seem to bother snooping on its use of communications limited to  inside the walls of a single family residence.
 
    Just a thought – and looking for another,  safer, free program, which is as easy to use via the Internet, but without such TeamViewer-like corporate  hassles.
 
Joe Z.
Cheng-Yang Tan
 

Hi Maarten,
   I use it behind a firewall so I it should be ok. But I'll look at NoMachine.

Thanks!

cytan

On Wednesday, December 11, 2019, 01:42:41 PM CST, Maarten Vanleenhove <maarten.vanleenhove@...> wrote:


UltraVNC is not secure, even when using an encryption plugin. The password can only be 8 characters (embedded in protocol) so a brute force attack is quite easy.
Take a look at NoMachine for a free and secure solution.

kind regards,

Maarten

Op 11/12/2019 om 20:20 schreef Cheng-Yang Tan via Groups.Io:
Hi Joe,
   I found TV definition of "non-commercial" to be too onerous. 

    Anyhow, I'd suggest looking at UltraVNC. At least on my home network, it's not only a lot faster, it is also stable.

 As usual YMMV

cytan

On Wednesday, December 11, 2019, 11:51:41 AM CST, Joe Zeglinski <j.zeglinski@...> wrote:


Hi Cheng,
 
   You probably weren’t cut off by TV, for simply “reading email” – BUT rather ... for reading email “on a corporate site”.
That sets off TV alarm bells! The Snooper program can quite easily examine the source and destination IP addresses, and fairly easily Ping to check that the remote site was NOT actually a private home, but rather was a business. Probably as easy as “SHARING your session” – just as TV already provides the average user, but TeamViewer’s AI  uses this itself as well -  then it probably uses the IP  that the AI finds to look-up a database,  if it is inside any kind of known (registered) company.
 
    Basic rule for using non-commercial TeamViewer license – do NOT login to YOUR company PC – since you are obviously a “company employee. working form home”. You are then fair game, just  acting as part of a business.
 
    In my case, I suspect it pinged the senior lady and probably found the condo tower’s, cable provider  own (in-building) remote server BOX,  and bingo – it sure looks like “a company”. Even a programmer not using AI, would come to the same human conclusion.  Of course, it is only my “conjecture”, that apartment buildings might be wired with a small server module, installed  by a major cable & internet provider, under contract. So, having been banned 3 times in 3 months, it is quite likely that the free non-commercial use of TeamViewer really only works in a SMALL, innocuous, residence that has only one cable service connection. If there are many more, then it “ sure looks like a business”.
 
    TeamViewer’s  AI Snooper is not so smart that it can’t “outwit itself”.
 
    I’ve done a few brief tests with TightVNC, in-house between two PC’s, and it looks almost as good as TeamViewer – having same options  such as remote file transfer, with none of the commercial use hassles. The next big test is to actually link with a remote user in that “condo tower”. Just a bit of trepidation right now about having to set up ( Gulp !!!),  remote PC firewalls, and ports etc.
 
Joe Z.
 

From: Cheng-Yang Tan via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2019 8:04 AM
To: ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Off Topic - repetitive TeamViewer Screw-ups
 
Hi guys,
 
   I dumped TeamViewer after their ridiculous snooping program accused me of being a commercial user. It turns out that reading email with TeamViewer violates their policy: See Why do I see 'Commercial use suspected' / 'Commercial use detected'
 
 
Quote:
*******************
 
Commercial use applies to home office:
 
If you use TeamViewer for home office, it is commercial use – even if you just quickly connect to your work computer to check your emails. It does not depend on whether you register your TeamViewer Account with your personal or company email address.
 
*****************************
 
 
So what's my solution? I use VNC which is *free*. I've checked out TightVNC, TigerVNC and UltraVNC servers on my Win10 computer. And I've found UltraVNC to be both fast and reliable.
 
To view my Win10 computer from my Mac, I use the RealVNC viewer which is also free. Mac has a built in VNC viewer as well, but I found RealVNC viewer to be better.
 
And if you want to use VNC remotely away from your home network, you can use ssh tunneling. Note: I did this years ago so no current advice from me. But the procedure is available through google.
 
 
YMMV
 
cytan
 
 
 
 
 
 
On Tuesday, December 10, 2019, 10:14:01 PM CST, Joe Zeglinski <j.zeglinski@...> wrote:
 
 
Hi Guys,
 
    Yet another warning about relying on running TeamViewer for “remote INTERNET access” for your AP-Mount telescope control – using their free, non-commercial license.
 
    An 82-year old friend, a senior lady I occasionally help out,  by using TeamViewer to remotely support her “Personal, non-commercial” PC use – got locked out again,  for the THIRD time -  since August. This latest reconnection, which took weeks to re-negotiate with that German company,  lasted only about 2 or 3 weeks.  She ran the program just a couple of times since then,  to check emails with her twin sister’s PC – before TeamViewer’s  customer “SPY PROGRAM” decided it might be used commercially.
 
    I wonder if the fact that she uses her PC   in a 30-story Condo-Tower residence,  makes the Snooper module think that it might be “Business Tower”. If it can snoop on the building’s  Internet trunk from her TV connection, then it could have found that there is just one other ISP and TV  serviced cable system (besides BELL), in that residential tower. So, it may seem like an “office tower” to the Spy module.
 
     Has anyone else here, who has also been locked out by TeamViewer’s shabby practice, also happen to connect via Internet login,  from a large multi-family high-rise residence, like hers? Maybe THAT is the hidden bug in TeamViewer.
 
    TeamViewer is reliable,  but can ONLY be trusted,  if logged into in-house, on a local WAN or LAN,  to control your backyard telescope’s  AP-mount, as I do. But, if you login with your TeamViewer Internet  ID account number, through their corporate server in Germany, you run the risk of getting cancelled without warning, and be without your telescope access for weeks. That can be disastrous if you need it for  photographing a certain target, or have  scheduled valuable vacation time. Luckily, so far for me, TeamViewer doesn’t seem to bother snooping on its use of communications limited to  inside the walls of a single family residence.
 
    Just a thought – and looking for another,  safer, free program, which is as easy to use via the Internet, but without such TeamViewer-like corporate  hassles.
 
Joe Z.
Dale Ghent
 

Hi all,

I've read this thread with some amusement, as there are some pretty wild theories and terminology being put forth as fact. I'm not a TV user and have avoided using it to save myself from the sudden cut-off aggravation that is being discussed. I think the company behind TV should be more transparent in the way they manage their free-tier users so that people are fully aware of the hows and whys that these cut-offs occur.

But I will say that, as an Internet infrastructure and security professional during my day job, that the theories that Joe is putting forth are just, well, out there and have no basis in reality. TV doesn't know what kind of building you live in, where its walls are, nor can it "snoop the building's Internet trunk" and there is no AI that is reading your email to determine that your are engaging in commercial activities.

Occam's razor suggests that they use per-user usage patterns and source/destination as factors in suspending a free account. This is pretty banal and typical user analysis across many such companies. It's simple to suspect that if they see you hopping to multiple, different destinations and other users accounts that they suspect it's more than just for personal use and cut you off. Simple as that. No spyware, no CSI: TeamViewer cloak and dagger mystique.

That said, if you depend on TV enough that it is critical for your needs, perhaps the free tier isn't what you should be using and you should go with the commercial solution that provides support and no worries of sudden account termination. TV does not have to provide their product for free, and it's on their terms that one employs their free product. They can do what they want.

/dale

On Dec 11, 2019, at 2:57 PM, Cheng-Yang Tan via Groups.Io <cytan299@...> wrote:

Hi Maarten,
I use it behind a firewall so I it should be ok. But I'll look at NoMachine.

Thanks!

cytan

On Wednesday, December 11, 2019, 01:42:41 PM CST, Maarten Vanleenhove <maarten.vanleenhove@...> wrote:


UltraVNC is not secure, even when using an encryption plugin. The password can only be 8 characters (embedded in protocol) so a brute force attack is quite easy.
Take a look at NoMachine for a free and secure solution.

kind regards,

Maarten

Op 11/12/2019 om 20:20 schreef Cheng-Yang Tan via Groups.Io:
Hi Joe,
I found TV definition of "non-commercial" to be too onerous.

Anyhow, I'd suggest looking at UltraVNC. At least on my home network, it's not only a lot faster, it is also stable.

As usual YMMV

cytan

On Wednesday, December 11, 2019, 11:51:41 AM CST, Joe Zeglinski <j.zeglinski@...> wrote:


Hi Cheng,

You probably weren’t cut off by TV, for simply “reading email” – BUT rather ... for reading email “on a corporate site”.
That sets off TV alarm bells! The Snooper program can quite easily examine the source and destination IP addresses, and fairly easily Ping to check that the remote site was NOT actually a private home, but rather was a business. Probably as easy as “SHARING your session” – just as TV already provides the average user, but TeamViewer’s AI uses this itself as well - then it probably uses the IP that the AI finds to look-up a database, if it is inside any kind of known (registered) company.

Basic rule for using non-commercial TeamViewer license – do NOT login to YOUR company PC – since you are obviously a “company employee. working form home”. You are then fair game, just acting as part of a business.

In my case, I suspect it pinged the senior lady and probably found the condo tower’s, cable provider own (in-building) remote server BOX, and bingo – it sure looks like “a company”. Even a programmer not using AI, would come to the same human conclusion. Of course, it is only my “conjecture”, that apartment buildings might be wired with a small server module, installed by a major cable & internet provider, under contract. So, having been banned 3 times in 3 months, it is quite likely that the free non-commercial use of TeamViewer really only works in a SMALL, innocuous, residence that has only one cable service connection. If there are many more, then it “ sure looks like a business”.

TeamViewer’s AI Snooper is not so smart that it can’t “outwit itself”.

I’ve done a few brief tests with TightVNC, in-house between two PC’s, and it looks almost as good as TeamViewer – having same options such as remote file transfer, with none of the commercial use hassles. The next big test is to actually link with a remote user in that “condo tower”. Just a bit of trepidation right now about having to set up ( Gulp !!!), remote PC firewalls, and ports etc.

Joe Z.

From: Cheng-Yang Tan via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2019 8:04 AM
To: ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Off Topic - repetitive TeamViewer Screw-ups

Hi guys,

I dumped TeamViewer after their ridiculous snooping program accused me of being a commercial user. It turns out that reading email with TeamViewer violates their policy: See Why do I see 'Commercial use suspected' / 'Commercial use detected'


Why do I see 'Commercial use suspected' / 'Commercial use detected'
Read this article in Chinese | French | German | Japanese | Spanish This article applies to TeamViewer users wi...

Quote:
*******************

Commercial use applies to home office:

If you use TeamViewer for home office, it is commercial use – even if you just quickly connect to your work computer to check your emails. It does not depend on whether you register your TeamViewer Account with your personal or company email address.

*****************************


So what's my solution? I use VNC which is *free*. I've checked out TightVNC, TigerVNC and UltraVNC servers on my Win10 computer. And I've found UltraVNC to be both fast and reliable.

To view my Win10 computer from my Mac, I use the RealVNC viewer which is also free. Mac has a built in VNC viewer as well, but I found RealVNC viewer to be better.

And if you want to use VNC remotely away from your home network, you can use ssh tunneling. Note: I did this years ago so no current advice from me. But the procedure is available through google.


YMMV

cytan






On Tuesday, December 10, 2019, 10:14:01 PM CST, Joe Zeglinski <j.zeglinski@...> wrote:


Hi Guys,

Yet another warning about relying on running TeamViewer for “remote INTERNET access” for your AP-Mount telescope control – using their free, non-commercial license.

An 82-year old friend, a senior lady I occasionally help out, by using TeamViewer to remotely support her “Personal, non-commercial” PC use – got locked out again, for the THIRD time - since August. This latest reconnection, which took weeks to re-negotiate with that German company, lasted only about 2 or 3 weeks. She ran the program just a couple of times since then, to check emails with her twin sister’s PC – before TeamViewer’s customer “SPY PROGRAM” decided it might be used commercially.

I wonder if the fact that she uses her PC in a 30-story Condo-Tower residence, makes the Snooper module think that it might be “Business Tower”. If it can snoop on the building’s Internet trunk from her TV connection, then it could have found that there is just one other ISP and TV serviced cable system (besides BELL), in that residential tower. So, it may seem like an “office tower” to the Spy module.

Has anyone else here, who has also been locked out by TeamViewer’s shabby practice, also happen to connect via Internet login, from a large multi-family high-rise residence, like hers? Maybe THAT is the hidden bug in TeamViewer.

TeamViewer is reliable, but can ONLY be trusted, if logged into in-house, on a local WAN or LAN, to control your backyard telescope’s AP-mount, as I do. But, if you login with your TeamViewer Internet ID account number, through their corporate server in Germany, you run the risk of getting cancelled without warning, and be without your telescope access for weeks. That can be disastrous if you need it for photographing a certain target, or have scheduled valuable vacation time. Luckily, so far for me, TeamViewer doesn’t seem to bother snooping on its use of communications limited to inside the walls of a single family residence.

Just a thought – and looking for another, safer, free program, which is as easy to use via the Internet, but without such TeamViewer-like corporate hassles.

Joe Z.
Victoria Berger
 

When I spoke with TV's customer service to find out why I was cut off, they expressly told me that their application detects whether quickbooks or certain other applications are running as part of their determination about commercial use.  Their web site expressly mentions getting on to check business email is something they register as commercial use.  There is absolutely no technical limitation that would prevent them from checking to see what other applications are running on the remote computer you're connecting to, and they admit to doing so.

Without a doubt they use more than simple usage patterns and source/destination ip addresses and such.
Cheng-Yang Tan
 

Hi Maarten,
   I've installed and tried out NoMachine. Very impressive! It's fast as well. I think I'll be using NoMachine to during my next imaging session. 

   Thanks for the recommendation.

cytan

On Wednesday, December 11, 2019, 01:57:51 PM CST, Cheng-Yang Tan <cytan299@...> wrote:


Hi Maarten,
   I use it behind a firewall so I it should be ok. But I'll look at NoMachine.

Thanks!

cytan

On Wednesday, December 11, 2019, 01:42:41 PM CST, Maarten Vanleenhove <maarten.vanleenhove@...> wrote:


UltraVNC is not secure, even when using an encryption plugin. The password can only be 8 characters (embedded in protocol) so a brute force attack is quite easy.
Take a look at NoMachine for a free and secure solution.

kind regards,

Maarten

Op 11/12/2019 om 20:20 schreef Cheng-Yang Tan via Groups.Io:
Hi Joe,
   I found TV definition of "non-commercial" to be too onerous. 

    Anyhow, I'd suggest looking at UltraVNC. At least on my home network, it's not only a lot faster, it is also stable.

 As usual YMMV

cytan

On Wednesday, December 11, 2019, 11:51:41 AM CST, Joe Zeglinski <j.zeglinski@...> wrote:


Hi Cheng,
 
   You probably weren’t cut off by TV, for simply “reading email” – BUT rather ... for reading email “on a corporate site”.
That sets off TV alarm bells! The Snooper program can quite easily examine the source and destination IP addresses, and fairly easily Ping to check that the remote site was NOT actually a private home, but rather was a business. Probably as easy as “SHARING your session” – just as TV already provides the average user, but TeamViewer’s AI  uses this itself as well -  then it probably uses the IP  that the AI finds to look-up a database,  if it is inside any kind of known (registered) company.
 
    Basic rule for using non-commercial TeamViewer license – do NOT login to YOUR company PC – since you are obviously a “company employee. working form home”. You are then fair game, just  acting as part of a business.
 
    In my case, I suspect it pinged the senior lady and probably found the condo tower’s, cable provider  own (in-building) remote server BOX,  and bingo – it sure looks like “a company”. Even a programmer not using AI, would come to the same human conclusion.  Of course, it is only my “conjecture”, that apartment buildings might be wired with a small server module, installed  by a major cable & internet provider, under contract. So, having been banned 3 times in 3 months, it is quite likely that the free non-commercial use of TeamViewer really only works in a SMALL, innocuous, residence that has only one cable service connection. If there are many more, then it “ sure looks like a business”.
 
    TeamViewer’s  AI Snooper is not so smart that it can’t “outwit itself”.
 
    I’ve done a few brief tests with TightVNC, in-house between two PC’s, and it looks almost as good as TeamViewer – having same options  such as remote file transfer, with none of the commercial use hassles. The next big test is to actually link with a remote user in that “condo tower”. Just a bit of trepidation right now about having to set up ( Gulp !!!),  remote PC firewalls, and ports etc.
 
Joe Z.
 

From: Cheng-Yang Tan via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2019 8:04 AM
To: ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Off Topic - repetitive TeamViewer Screw-ups
 
Hi guys,
 
   I dumped TeamViewer after their ridiculous snooping program accused me of being a commercial user. It turns out that reading email with TeamViewer violates their policy: See Why do I see 'Commercial use suspected' / 'Commercial use detected'
 
 
Quote:
*******************
 
Commercial use applies to home office:
 
If you use TeamViewer for home office, it is commercial use – even if you just quickly connect to your work computer to check your emails. It does not depend on whether you register your TeamViewer Account with your personal or company email address.
 
*****************************
 
 
So what's my solution? I use VNC which is *free*. I've checked out TightVNC, TigerVNC and UltraVNC servers on my Win10 computer. And I've found UltraVNC to be both fast and reliable.
 
To view my Win10 computer from my Mac, I use the RealVNC viewer which is also free. Mac has a built in VNC viewer as well, but I found RealVNC viewer to be better.
 
And if you want to use VNC remotely away from your home network, you can use ssh tunneling. Note: I did this years ago so no current advice from me. But the procedure is available through google.
 
 
YMMV
 
cytan
 
 
 
 
 
 
On Tuesday, December 10, 2019, 10:14:01 PM CST, Joe Zeglinski <j.zeglinski@...> wrote:
 
 
Hi Guys,
 
    Yet another warning about relying on running TeamViewer for “remote INTERNET access” for your AP-Mount telescope control – using their free, non-commercial license.
 
    An 82-year old friend, a senior lady I occasionally help out,  by using TeamViewer to remotely support her “Personal, non-commercial” PC use – got locked out again,  for the THIRD time -  since August. This latest reconnection, which took weeks to re-negotiate with that German company,  lasted only about 2 or 3 weeks.  She ran the program just a couple of times since then,  to check emails with her twin sister’s PC – before TeamViewer’s  customer “SPY PROGRAM” decided it might be used commercially.
 
    I wonder if the fact that she uses her PC   in a 30-story Condo-Tower residence,  makes the Snooper module think that it might be “Business Tower”. If it can snoop on the building’s  Internet trunk from her TV connection, then it could have found that there is just one other ISP and TV  serviced cable system (besides BELL), in that residential tower. So, it may seem like an “office tower” to the Spy module.
 
     Has anyone else here, who has also been locked out by TeamViewer’s shabby practice, also happen to connect via Internet login,  from a large multi-family high-rise residence, like hers? Maybe THAT is the hidden bug in TeamViewer.
 
    TeamViewer is reliable,  but can ONLY be trusted,  if logged into in-house, on a local WAN or LAN,  to control your backyard telescope’s  AP-mount, as I do. But, if you login with your TeamViewer Internet  ID account number, through their corporate server in Germany, you run the risk of getting cancelled without warning, and be without your telescope access for weeks. That can be disastrous if you need it for  photographing a certain target, or have  scheduled valuable vacation time. Luckily, so far for me, TeamViewer doesn’t seem to bother snooping on its use of communications limited to  inside the walls of a single family residence.
 
    Just a thought – and looking for another,  safer, free program, which is as easy to use via the Internet, but without such TeamViewer-like corporate  hassles.
 
Joe Z.
Maarten Vanleenhove
 

For local usage where security is no issue: TightVNC runs just fine and does not need an external internet connection.

kind regards,

Maarten

Op wo 11 dec. 2019 om 20:58 schreef Cheng-Yang Tan via Groups.Io <cytan299=yahoo.com@groups.io>:

Hi Maarten,
   I use it behind a firewall so I it should be ok. But I'll look at NoMachine.

Thanks!

cytan

On Wednesday, December 11, 2019, 01:42:41 PM CST, Maarten Vanleenhove <maarten.vanleenhove@...> wrote:


UltraVNC is not secure, even when using an encryption plugin. The password can only be 8 characters (embedded in protocol) so a brute force attack is quite easy.
Take a look at NoMachine for a free and secure solution.

kind regards,

Maarten

Op 11/12/2019 om 20:20 schreef Cheng-Yang Tan via Groups.Io:
Hi Joe,
   I found TV definition of "non-commercial" to be too onerous. 

    Anyhow, I'd suggest looking at UltraVNC. At least on my home network, it's not only a lot faster, it is also stable.

 As usual YMMV

cytan

On Wednesday, December 11, 2019, 11:51:41 AM CST, Joe Zeglinski <j.zeglinski@...> wrote:


Hi Cheng,
 
   You probably weren’t cut off by TV, for simply “reading email” – BUT rather ... for reading email “on a corporate site”.
That sets off TV alarm bells! The Snooper program can quite easily examine the source and destination IP addresses, and fairly easily Ping to check that the remote site was NOT actually a private home, but rather was a business. Probably as easy as “SHARING your session” – just as TV already provides the average user, but TeamViewer’s AI  uses this itself as well -  then it probably uses the IP  that the AI finds to look-up a database,  if it is inside any kind of known (registered) company.
 
    Basic rule for using non-commercial TeamViewer license – do NOT login to YOUR company PC – since you are obviously a “company employee. working form home”. You are then fair game, just  acting as part of a business.
 
    In my case, I suspect it pinged the senior lady and probably found the condo tower’s, cable provider  own (in-building) remote server BOX,  and bingo – it sure looks like “a company”. Even a programmer not using AI, would come to the same human conclusion.  Of course, it is only my “conjecture”, that apartment buildings might be wired with a small server module, installed  by a major cable & internet provider, under contract. So, having been banned 3 times in 3 months, it is quite likely that the free non-commercial use of TeamViewer really only works in a SMALL, innocuous, residence that has only one cable service connection. If there are many more, then it “ sure looks like a business”.
 
    TeamViewer’s  AI Snooper is not so smart that it can’t “outwit itself”.
 
    I’ve done a few brief tests with TightVNC, in-house between two PC’s, and it looks almost as good as TeamViewer – having same options  such as remote file transfer, with none of the commercial use hassles. The next big test is to actually link with a remote user in that “condo tower”. Just a bit of trepidation right now about having to set up ( Gulp !!!),  remote PC firewalls, and ports etc.
 
Joe Z.
 
From: Cheng-Yang Tan via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2019 8:04 AM
To: ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Off Topic - repetitive TeamViewer Screw-ups
 
Hi guys,
 
   I dumped TeamViewer after their ridiculous snooping program accused me of being a commercial user. It turns out that reading email with TeamViewer violates their policy: See Why do I see 'Commercial use suspected' / 'Commercial use detected'
 

Why do I see 'Commercial use suspected' / 'Commercial use detected'

Read this article in Chinese | French | German | Japanese | Spanish This article applies to TeamViewer users wi...

 
Quote:
*******************
 
Commercial use applies to home office:
 
If you use TeamViewer for home office, it is commercial use – even if you just quickly connect to your work computer to check your emails. It does not depend on whether you register your TeamViewer Account with your personal or company email address.
 
*****************************
 
 
So what's my solution? I use VNC which is *free*. I've checked out TightVNC, TigerVNC and UltraVNC servers on my Win10 computer. And I've found UltraVNC to be both fast and reliable.
 
To view my Win10 computer from my Mac, I use the RealVNC viewer which is also free. Mac has a built in VNC viewer as well, but I found RealVNC viewer to be better.
 
And if you want to use VNC remotely away from your home network, you can use ssh tunneling. Note: I did this years ago so no current advice from me. But the procedure is available through google.
 
 
YMMV
 
cytan
 
 
 
 
 
 
On Tuesday, December 10, 2019, 10:14:01 PM CST, Joe Zeglinski <j.zeglinski@...> wrote:
 
 
Hi Guys,
 
    Yet another warning about relying on running TeamViewer for “remote INTERNET access” for your AP-Mount telescope control – using their free, non-commercial license.
 
    An 82-year old friend, a senior lady I occasionally help out,  by using TeamViewer to remotely support her “Personal, non-commercial” PC use – got locked out again,  for the THIRD time -  since August. This latest reconnection, which took weeks to re-negotiate with that German company,  lasted only about 2 or 3 weeks.  She ran the program just a couple of times since then,  to check emails with her twin sister’s PC – before TeamViewer’s  customer “SPY PROGRAM” decided it might be used commercially.
 
    I wonder if the fact that she uses her PC   in a 30-story Condo-Tower residence,  makes the Snooper module think that it might be “Business Tower”. If it can snoop on the building’s  Internet trunk from her TV connection, then it could have found that there is just one other ISP and TV  serviced cable system (besides BELL), in that residential tower. So, it may seem like an “office tower” to the Spy module.
 
     Has anyone else here, who has also been locked out by TeamViewer’s shabby practice, also happen to connect via Internet login,  from a large multi-family high-rise residence, like hers? Maybe THAT is the hidden bug in TeamViewer.
 
    TeamViewer is reliable,  but can ONLY be trusted,  if logged into in-house, on a local WAN or LAN,  to control your backyard telescope’s  AP-mount, as I do. But, if you login with your TeamViewer Internet  ID account number, through their corporate server in Germany, you run the risk of getting cancelled without warning, and be without your telescope access for weeks. That can be disastrous if you need it for  photographing a certain target, or have  scheduled valuable vacation time. Luckily, so far for me, TeamViewer doesn’t seem to bother snooping on its use of communications limited to  inside the walls of a single family residence.
 
    Just a thought – and looking for another,  safer, free program, which is as easy to use via the Internet, but without such TeamViewer-like corporate  hassles.
 
Joe Z.
dawziecat
 

I was flummoxed when TV cut me off. And dismayed as I've become so dependent on "remote access" even though, for me, "remote" means a distance of about 75 feet. But it's COLD out there! Footwear and jackets must be donned! A nuisance! Uncomfortable!  
I emailed TV and got a cockamamie reply demanding a signed letter about my usage, with a caveat that no matter what I wrote, access might not be granted.
In disgust I tried TightVNC. Perfectly happy. It's even BETTER than TV for my particular usage.
TV has been deleted from the 3 machines I use in my imaging and I don't miss it a bit. In fact, I wouldn't go back if they paid me!
If this happens to you, rest easy. There IS life after TV declares you a commercial user!
Cheng-Yang Tan
 

If you want encrypted data to be sent between your computer and mount computer, I'd suggest using noMachine. It's free and it works very well. And IMO, much better and faster than any version of VNC that I've used so far.

cytan

On Saturday, December 21, 2019, 10:01:48 PM CST, dawziecat <dankst@...> wrote:


I was flummoxed when TV cut me off. And dismayed as I've become so dependent on "remote access" even though, for me, "remote" means a distance of about 75 feet. But it's COLD out there! Footwear and jackets must be donned! A nuisance! Uncomfortable!  
I emailed TV and got a cockamamie reply demanding a signed letter about my usage, with a caveat that no matter what I wrote, access might not be granted.
In disgust I tried TightVNC. Perfectly happy. It's even BETTER than TV for my particular usage.
TV has been deleted from the 3 machines I use in my imaging and I don't miss it a bit. In fact, I wouldn't go back if they paid me!
If this happens to you, rest easy. There IS life after TV declares you a commercial user!

Joseph Beyer
 

Cytan,

If I remember correctly from previous posts your remote computer is a Mac controlling a PC at the mount?  I figured while I’m buried in layers of winter rain clouds I may as well replace TV on my system before I run into the same problem. 

Joe

On Dec 21, 2019, at 8:06 PM, Cheng-Yang Tan via Groups.Io <cytan299@...> wrote:


If you want encrypted data to be sent between your computer and mount computer, I'd suggest using noMachine. It's free and it works very well. And IMO, much better and faster than any version of VNC that I've used so far.

cytan

On Saturday, December 21, 2019, 10:01:48 PM CST, dawziecat <dankst@...> wrote:


I was flummoxed when TV cut me off. And dismayed as I've become so dependent on "remote access" even though, for me, "remote" means a distance of about 75 feet. But it's COLD out there! Footwear and jackets must be donned! A nuisance! Uncomfortable!  
I emailed TV and got a cockamamie reply demanding a signed letter about my usage, with a caveat that no matter what I wrote, access might not be granted.
In disgust I tried TightVNC. Perfectly happy. It's even BETTER than TV for my particular usage.
TV has been deleted from the 3 machines I use in my imaging and I don't miss it a bit. In fact, I wouldn't go back if they paid me!
If this happens to you, rest easy. There IS life after TV declares you a commercial user!

Cheng-Yang Tan
 

Hi Joe,
   Yes I use a Mac and unfortunately a PC for astrophotography. I've gone from TeamViewer to VNC to noMachine. IMO, right now, noMachine works very well and very fast and secure. And it works on Linux, PC and Mac. But best of all, it's free :) I'd recommend people try it. 

cytan

On Sunday, December 22, 2019, 10:45:28 AM CST, Joseph Beyer <jcbeyer2001@...> wrote:


Cytan,

If I remember correctly from previous posts your remote computer is a Mac controlling a PC at the mount?  I figured while I’m buried in layers of winter rain clouds I may as well replace TV on my system before I run into the same problem. 

Joe

On Dec 21, 2019, at 8:06 PM, Cheng-Yang Tan via Groups.Io <cytan299@...> wrote:


If you want encrypted data to be sent between your computer and mount computer, I'd suggest using noMachine. It's free and it works very well. And IMO, much better and faster than any version of VNC that I've used so far.

cytan

On Saturday, December 21, 2019, 10:01:48 PM CST, dawziecat <dankst@...> wrote:


I was flummoxed when TV cut me off. And dismayed as I've become so dependent on "remote access" even though, for me, "remote" means a distance of about 75 feet. But it's COLD out there! Footwear and jackets must be donned! A nuisance! Uncomfortable!  
I emailed TV and got a cockamamie reply demanding a signed letter about my usage, with a caveat that no matter what I wrote, access might not be granted.
In disgust I tried TightVNC. Perfectly happy. It's even BETTER than TV for my particular usage.
TV has been deleted from the 3 machines I use in my imaging and I don't miss it a bit. In fact, I wouldn't go back if they paid me!
If this happens to you, rest easy. There IS life after TV declares you a commercial user!

Steve Reilly
 

Cytan how is file transfer? I run a remote setup at SRO in California while living in Virginia and currently use LogMeIn but SRO provides a VPN connection that when used you can log on using Remote Desktop which is nice. Also can multiple people log in to the observatory for say trouble shooting purposes? That’s a major issue with some remote software where only one can log in and see the screen.

                                                                                                                                                                

Thanks,

 

Steve

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Cheng-Yang Tan via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2019 3:15 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Off Topic - repetitive TeamViewer Screw-ups

 

Hi Joe,

   Yes I use a Mac and unfortunately a PC for astrophotography. I've gone from TeamViewer to VNC to noMachine. IMO, right now, noMachine works very well and very fast and secure. And it works on Linux, PC and Mac. But best of all, it's free :) I'd recommend people try it. 

 

cytan

 

On Sunday, December 22, 2019, 10:45:28 AM CST, Joseph Beyer <jcbeyer2001@...> wrote:

 

 

Cytan,

 

If I remember correctly from previous posts your remote computer is a Mac controlling a PC at the mount?  I figured while I’m buried in layers of winter rain clouds I may as well replace TV on my system before I run into the same problem. 

 

Joe



On Dec 21, 2019, at 8:06 PM, Cheng-Yang Tan via Groups.Io <cytan299@...> wrote:



If you want encrypted data to be sent between your computer and mount computer, I'd suggest using noMachine. It's free and it works very well. And IMO, much better and faster than any version of VNC that I've used so far.

 

cytan

 

On Saturday, December 21, 2019, 10:01:48 PM CST, dawziecat <dankst@...> wrote:

 

 

I was flummoxed when TV cut me off. And dismayed as I've become so dependent on "remote access" even though, for me, "remote" means a distance of about 75 feet. But it's COLD out there! Footwear and jackets must be donned! A nuisance! Uncomfortable!  
I emailed TV and got a cockamamie reply demanding a signed letter about my usage, with a caveat that no matter what I wrote, access might not be granted.
In disgust I tried TightVNC. Perfectly happy. It's even BETTER than TV for my particular usage.
TV has been deleted from the 3 machines I use in my imaging and I don't miss it a bit. In fact, I wouldn't go back if they paid me!
If this happens to you, rest easy. There IS life after TV declares you a commercial user!

Cheng-Yang Tan
 

Yes, file transfer is supported. In fact, you can create a shared drive (using "Connect a Disk" option) in the same vein as Dropbox but only between your machine and the remote machine.

I just tried logging in to my PC using 2 MacBook Pros. Unfortunately, only one Pro can log in at any one time -- the first session disconnects when I connect a second. However, you may want to email the noMachine developers to confirm that what you want, i.e. multiple logins is not possible. There may be an option to do this, but I don't see it right now.

cytan

On Sunday, December 22, 2019, 02:30:22 PM CST, Steve Reilly <sreilly24590@...> wrote:


Cytan how is file transfer? I run a remote setup at SRO in California while living in Virginia and currently use LogMeIn but SRO provides a VPN connection that when used you can log on using Remote Desktop which is nice. Also can multiple people log in to the observatory for say trouble shooting purposes? That’s a major issue with some remote software where only one can log in and see the screen.

                                                                                                                                                                

Thanks,

 

Steve

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Cheng-Yang Tan via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2019 3:15 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Off Topic - repetitive TeamViewer Screw-ups

 

Hi Joe,

   Yes I use a Mac and unfortunately a PC for astrophotography. I've gone from TeamViewer to VNC to noMachine. IMO, right now, noMachine works very well and very fast and secure. And it works on Linux, PC and Mac. But best of all, it's free :) I'd recommend people try it. 

 

cytan

 

On Sunday, December 22, 2019, 10:45:28 AM CST, Joseph Beyer <jcbeyer2001@...> wrote:

 

 

Cytan,

 

If I remember correctly from previous posts your remote computer is a Mac controlling a PC at the mount?  I figured while I’m buried in layers of winter rain clouds I may as well replace TV on my system before I run into the same problem. 

 

Joe



On Dec 21, 2019, at 8:06 PM, Cheng-Yang Tan via Groups.Io <cytan299@...> wrote:



If you want encrypted data to be sent between your computer and mount computer, I'd suggest using noMachine. It's free and it works very well. And IMO, much better and faster than any version of VNC that I've used so far.

 

cytan

 

On Saturday, December 21, 2019, 10:01:48 PM CST, dawziecat <dankst@...> wrote:

 

 

I was flummoxed when TV cut me off. And dismayed as I've become so dependent on "remote access" even though, for me, "remote" means a distance of about 75 feet. But it's COLD out there! Footwear and jackets must be donned! A nuisance! Uncomfortable!  
I emailed TV and got a cockamamie reply demanding a signed letter about my usage, with a caveat that no matter what I wrote, access might not be granted.
In disgust I tried TightVNC. Perfectly happy. It's even BETTER than TV for my particular usage.
TV has been deleted from the 3 machines I use in my imaging and I don't miss it a bit. In fact, I wouldn't go back if they paid me!
If this happens to you, rest easy. There IS life after TV declares you a commercial user!

Barry Megdal
 

I got accused of commercial use once, but even after sending TeamViewer my signed document stating only personal use, I got cut off last week only a month later.

 

I need access to an observatory that is far away, not just in my yard.  Looking at online reviews, I saw that AnyDesk was written by some  of the same people as TeamViewer, and was optimized for speed, clarity, etc.

 

It is free to use, but about $100 a year if you want to use some of its nice features (like the address book).

 

I wanted to try it, but TeamViewer only gave me 20 second sessions before it disconnected me, so I had to practice installing AnyDesk on my home PC in small steps (with TeamViewer’s enforced re-login delay in between), in order to finally get it installed on the observatory PC.

 

Bottom line is that AnyDesk seems to work very nicely (at least as well as TeamViewer), and the price is either free or much more reasonable that TeamViewer’s $500/year.  I won’t be going back.

 

-        Barry

 

Dr. Barry Megdal

 

President

Shb Instruments, Inc.

19215 Parthenia St.  Suite A

Northridge, CA 91324

www.shbinstruments.com

(818) 773-2000  (818)773-2005 fax

bmegdal@...

 

Faculty (retired)

Dept. of Electrical Engineering

Caltech

 

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