Remote desktop software weird behaviour


Joe Zeglinski
 

Ron,
 
    That is EXACTLY the problem !  Contacting a business – in either direction, with you initiating the link, or you receiving the link, is “commercial use.
 
    Howard ... i.e. Astro Physics is a “commercial location”, so small wonder you got caught. You cannot even “contact a business” or you become complicit in TV’s illegal use. I strongly suspect the reason I got banned was because I permitted Microsoft to login into my home PC using LogMeIn app, to test the source of a software problem. Of course “one of us” was a commercial establishment, so no wonder.
 
    We have to be VERY careful about our PC’s using a “commercial link”. The TV clerk asked me if I EVEN used TeamViewer while having a coffee at an internet cafe, and used their free WiFi connection, just to check my home PC. THAT is using TV from or at a commercial establishment – so fair game, as well.
 
    Basically,, you can’t just about go to the bathroom and take your mobile with TV active on it, and not get TeamViewer to banish you. It really is NOT worth using any longer. There has to be some better free provider than TeamViewer, one that isn’t so anal retentive.
 
Joe
 

From: Ron Kramer ronkramer1957@... [ap-gto]
Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2019 8:46 PM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: Remote desktop software weird behavior
 
They were saying   ME OR A CONTACT  is using it commercially?  Has AP signed up to use it commercially?  Though I haven't had Horward connect up in over a year. I wonder if he was flagged and those he's connected to?
I just was clicking around teamviewer to see if I could reset it and found  "contacts from recent sessions" list which includes  Howard4AP.
?
 


Joe Zeglinski
 

Ron,
 
    You actually brought up an interesting “commercial use” dilemma with TeamViewer.
 
    If I got banned because Microsoft logged in, using their own customer support app, while my TeamViewer was sitting IDLE in the notification bar, then how is Howard or anybody else going to be able to test & solve a customer problem,  even with the customer's TeamViewer in sleep mode, running in the background. Doesn’t even matter whether Howard uses his TeamViewer to wake up your TV , to join you,  or he uses a fully paid up  “commercially licensed” and completely different customer support application, instead of TeamViewer – YOUR copy will get banned ... even “by association with a commercial support outfit”.
 
    So basically, it seems the new rules at TV are that you cannot even RECEIVE commercial support,  on a PC that has a non-commercial license installed, and it isn’t even launched to the desktop at the time ! The TeamViewer sniffer icon is always listening for a business link.
 
    It’s the end of an era for us astronomers using TV. That outfit is getting nastier, and the TV free license is now strictly for use between “blood relations”. They certainly don’t want their software used “between “machines”, like telescopes, since that is NOT a person-to-person use of it. Industrial (telescope Machine) operation is deemed a “commercial activity” no different than if you were using it to run a hot rolled steel mill. They can’t tell the difference, so they have tightened the rules, and mere suspicion gets us banned.
 
    Time to move far away from TeamViewer, which would please them enormously if their servers in Germany were not being tied up with us free-downloaders  It just makes good business sense, to them :-)
 
    That now leaves the unresolved dilemma of how Howard and George,  can provide us direct, hands-on, customer support.
 
Joe
 
 

From: 'Joseph Zeglinski' J.Zeglinski@... [ap-gto]
Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2019 11:05 PM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: Remote desktop software weird behaviour
 


Ron,
 
    That is EXACTLY the problem !  Contacting a business – in either direction, with you initiating the link, or you receiving the link, is “commercial use.
 
    Howard ... i.e. Astro Physics is a “commercial location”, so small wonder you got caught. You cannot even “contact a business” or you become complicit in TV’s illegal use. I strongly suspect the reason I got banned was because I permitted Microsoft to login into my home PC using LogMeIn app, to test the source of a software problem. Of course “one of us” was a commercial establishment, so no wonder.
 
    We have to be VERY careful about our PC’s using a “commercial link”. The TV clerk asked me if I EVEN used TeamViewer while having a coffee at an internet cafe, and used their free WiFi connection, just to check my home PC. THAT is using TV from or at a commercial establishment – so fair game, as well.
 
    Basically,, you can’t just about go to the bathroom and take your mobile with TV active on it, and not get TeamViewer to banish you. It really is NOT worth using any longer. There has to be some better free provider than TeamViewer, one that isn’t so anal retentive.
 
Joe
 
From: Ron Kramer ronkramer1957@... [ap-gto]
Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2019 8:46 PM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: Remote desktop software weird behavior
 
They were saying   ME OR A CONTACT  is using it commercially?  Has AP signed up to use it commercially?  Though I haven't had Horward connect up in over a year. I wonder if he was flagged and those he's connected to?
I just was clicking around teamviewer to see if I could reset it and found  "contacts from recent sessions" list which includes  Howard4AP.
?
 


W Hilmo
 

I don’t know that it matters who connected to whom.

 

At our local astrophotography sig meeting last month, just about everyone using TeamViewer had been flagged.  I suspect that the TV folks are making a push for license enforcement and they may have been more aggressive about it than they intended (given the huge public relations backlash that I’ve seen, both locally and online, I can’t imagine that they meant to do this - and if they did, it was probably pretty poor judgement).

 

I’m not a TeamViewer user myself, but in our meeting there was discussion that there is way to configure TV to connect on your local LAN.  And supposedly in that case, it makes no internet connection and the commercial use check doesn’t happen.  If you are using it to operate your observatory computer locally at your home, you should probably have it configured this way anyway.  For those using it with a remote observatory, you’ll probably either need to go through the pain of getting “approved” by the TV folks, or switch to another remoting solution.  There are several out there, as has been mentioned.

 

-Wade

 

From: ap-gto@...
Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2019 8:28 PM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: Remote desktop software weird behaviour

 

 

Ron,

 

    You actually brought up an interesting “commercial use” dilemma with TeamViewer.

 

    If I got banned because Microsoft logged in, using their own customer support app, while my TeamViewer was sitting IDLE in the notification bar, then how is Howard or anybody else going to be able to test & solve a customer problem,  even with the customer's TeamViewer in sleep mode, running in the background. Doesn’t even matter whether Howard uses his TeamViewer to wake up your TV , to join you,  or he uses a fully paid up  “commercially licensed” and completely different customer support application, instead of TeamViewer – YOUR copy will get banned ... even “by association with a commercial support outfit”.

 

    So basically, it seems the new rules at TV are that you cannot even RECEIVE commercial support,  on a PC that has a non-commercial license installed, and it isn’t even launched to the desktop at the time ! The TeamViewer sniffer icon is always listening for a business link.

 

    It’s the end of an era for us astronomers using TV. That outfit is getting nastier, and the TV free license is now strictly for use between “blood relations”. They certainly don’t want their software used “between “machines”, like telescopes, since that is NOT a person-to-person use of it. Industrial (telescope Machine) operation is deemed a “commercial activity” no different than if you were using it to run a hot rolled steel mill. They can’t tell the difference, so they have tightened the rules, and mere suspicion gets us banned.

 

    Time to move far away from TeamViewer, which would please them enormously if their servers in Germany were not being tied up with us free-downloaders  It just makes good business sense, to them :-)

 

    That now leaves the unresolved dilemma of how Howard and George,  can provide us direct, hands-on, customer support.

 

Joe

 

 

From: 'Joseph Zeglinski' J.Zeglinski@... [ap-gto]

Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2019 11:05 PM

Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: Remote desktop software weird behaviour

 




Ron,

 

    That is EXACTLY the problem !  Contacting a business – in either direction, with you initiating the link, or you receiving the link, is “commercial use.

 

    Howard ... i.e. Astro Physics is a “commercial location”, so small wonder you got caught. You cannot even “contact a business” or you become complicit in TV’s illegal use. I strongly suspect the reason I got banned was because I permitted Microsoft to login into my home PC using LogMeIn app, to test the source of a software problem. Of course “one of us” was a commercial establishment, so no wonder.

 

    We have to be VERY careful about our PC’s using a “commercial link”. The TV clerk asked me if I EVEN used TeamViewer while having a coffee at an internet cafe, and used their free WiFi connection, just to check my home PC. THAT is using TV from or at a commercial establishment – so fair game, as well.

 

    Basically,, you can’t just about go to the bathroom and take your mobile with TV active on it, and not get TeamViewer to banish you.. It really is NOT worth using any longer. There has to be some better free provider than TeamViewer, one that isn’t so anal retentive.

 

Joe

 

From: Ron Kramer ronkramer1957@... [ap-gto]

Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2019 8:46 PM

Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: Remote desktop software weird behavior

 

They were saying   ME OR A CONTACT  is using it commercially?  Has AP signed up to use it commercially?  Though I haven't had Horward connect up in over a year. I wonder if he was flagged and those he's connected to?
I just was clicking around teamviewer to see if I could reset it and found  "contacts from recent sessions" list which includes  Howard4AP.

?

 


Ray Gralak
 

Hi Joe,

That now leaves the unresolved dilemma of how Howard and George, can provide us direct, hands-on,
customer support.
There's no dilemma here. A-P has a TeamViewer commercial license which allows them to use it the way they need to.

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver


-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2019 8:28 PM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: Remote desktop software weird behaviour



Ron,

You actually brought up an interesting “commercial use” dilemma with TeamViewer.

If I got banned because Microsoft logged in, using their own customer support app, while my TeamViewer was
sitting IDLE in the notification bar, then how is Howard or anybody else going to be able to test & solve a
customer problem, even with the customer's TeamViewer in sleep mode, running in the background. Doesn’t
even matter whether Howard uses his TeamViewer to wake up your TV , to join you, or he uses a fully paid up
“commercially licensed” and completely different customer support application, instead of TeamViewer – YOUR
copy will get banned ... even “by association with a commercial support outfit”.

So basically, it seems the new rules at TV are that you cannot even RECEIVE commercial support, on a PC
that has a non-commercial license installed, and it isn’t even launched to the desktop at the time ! The
TeamViewer sniffer icon is always listening for a business link.

It’s the end of an era for us astronomers using TV. That outfit is getting nastier, and the TV free license is now
strictly for use between “blood relations”. They certainly don’t want their software used “between “machines”, like
telescopes, since that is NOT a person-to-person use of it. Industrial (telescope Machine) operation is deemed a
“commercial activity” no different than if you were using it to run a hot rolled steel mill. They can’t tell the
difference, so they have tightened the rules, and mere suspicion gets us banned.

Time to move far away from TeamViewer, which would please them enormously if their servers in Germany
were not being tied up with us free-downloaders It just makes good business sense, to them :-)

That now leaves the unresolved dilemma of how Howard and George, can provide us direct, hands-on,
customer support.

Joe


From: 'Joseph Zeglinski' J.Zeglinski@rogers.com [ap-gto]
Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2019 11:05 PM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: Remote desktop software weird behaviour



Ron,

That is EXACTLY the problem ! Contacting a business – in either direction, with you initiating the link, or you
receiving the link, is “commercial use.

Howard ... i.e. Astro Physics is a “commercial location”, so small wonder you got caught. You cannot even
“contact a business” or you become complicit in TV’s illegal use. I strongly suspect the reason I got banned was
because I permitted Microsoft to login into my home PC using LogMeIn app, to test the source of a software
problem. Of course “one of us” was a commercial establishment, so no wonder.

We have to be VERY careful about our PC’s using a “commercial link”. The TV clerk asked me if I EVEN used
TeamViewer while having a coffee at an internet cafe, and used their free WiFi connection, just to check my home
PC. THAT is using TV from or at a commercial establishment – so fair game, as well.

Basically,, you can’t just about go to the bathroom and take your mobile with TV active on it, and not get
TeamViewer to banish you.. It really is NOT worth using any longer. There has to be some better free provider
than TeamViewer, one that isn’t so anal retentive.

Joe

From: Ron Kramer ronkramer1957@gmail.com [ap-gto]
Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2019 8:46 PM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: Remote desktop software weird behavior

They were saying ME OR A CONTACT is using it commercially? Has AP signed up to use it commercially?
Though I haven't had Horward connect up in over a year. I wonder if he was flagged and those he's connected to?
I just was clicking around teamviewer to see if I could reset it and found "contacts from recent sessions" list
which includes Howard4AP.
?



Ross Salinger <rgsalinger@...>
 

To that point, Howard has logged onto an AP1600AE that I manage twice using TV and there have been no repercussions with regards to my free license.

I'm dubious about a ban due to MS logging into your computer drawing the attention of TV. However, remember you can always KILL TV and stop it running on your computer. I've also suffered a TV hiatus of about 5 days a while back. I suspect that long use of the product just gets their attention.

I set up a second TV and email account the two remote systems that I manage. Seemed like a good thing to do in general as there are others who need remote access to those systems and I don't want them even knowing anything about my home network. 

I want to keep using TV as it's the only free option that lets me have two monitors running over the internet. I have Chrome Desktop running as well but I only get one monitor to work with that software.

Rgrds-Ros


On 8/30/2019 7:34 AM, 'Ray Gralak (Groups)' groups3@... [ap-gto] wrote:
 

Hi Joe,

> That now leaves the unresolved dilemma of how Howard and George, can provide us direct, hands-on,
> customer support.

There's no dilemma here. A-P has a TeamViewer commercial license which allows them to use it the way they need to.

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
> Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2019 8:28 PM
> To: ap-gto@...
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: Remote desktop software weird behaviour
>
>
>
> Ron,
>
> You actually brought up an interesting “commercial use” dilemma with TeamViewer.
>
> If I got banned because Microsoft logged in, using their own customer support app, while my TeamViewer was
> sitting IDLE in the notification bar, then how is Howard or anybody else going to be able to test & solve a
> customer problem, even with the customer's TeamViewer in sleep mode, running in the background. Doesn’t
> even matter whether Howard uses his TeamViewer to wake up your TV , to join you, or he uses a fully paid up
> “commercially licensed” and completely different customer support application, instead of TeamViewer – YOUR
> copy will get banned ... even “by association with a commercial support outfit”.
>
> So basically, it seems the new rules at TV are that you cannot even RECEIVE commercial support, on a PC
> that has a non-commercial license installed, and it isn’t even launched to the desktop at the time ! The
> TeamViewer sniffer icon is always listening for a business link.
>
> It’s the end of an era for us astronomers using TV. That outfit is getting nastier, and the TV free license is now
> strictly for use between “blood relations”. They certainly don’t want their software used “between “machines”, like
> telescopes, since that is NOT a person-to-person use of it. Industrial (telescope Machine) operation is deemed a
> “commercial activity” no different than if you were using it to run a hot rolled steel mill. They can’t tell the
> difference, so they have tightened the rules, and mere suspicion gets us banned.
>
> Time to move far away from TeamViewer, which would please them enormously if their servers in Germany
> were not being tied up with us free-downloaders It just makes good business sense, to them :-)
>
> That now leaves the unresolved dilemma of how Howard and George, can provide us direct, hands-on,
> customer support.
>
> Joe
>
>
> From: 'Joseph Zeglinski' J.Zeglinski@... [ap-gto]
> Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2019 11:05 PM
> To: ap-gto@...
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: Remote desktop software weird behaviour
>
>
>
> Ron,
>
> That is EXACTLY the problem ! Contacting a business – in either direction, with you initiating the link, or you
> receiving the link, is “commercial use.
>
> Howard ... i.e. Astro Physics is a “commercial location”, so small wonder you got caught. You cannot even
> “contact a business” or you become complicit in TV’s illegal use. I strongly suspect the reason I got banned was
> because I permitted Microsoft to login into my home PC using LogMeIn app, to test the source of a software
> problem. Of course “one of us” was a commercial establishment, so no wonder.
>
> We have to be VERY careful about our PC’s using a “commercial link”. The TV clerk asked me if I EVEN used
> TeamViewer while having a coffee at an internet cafe, and used their free WiFi connection, just to check my home
> PC. THAT is using TV from or at a commercial establishment – so fair game, as well.
>
> Basically,, you can’t just about go to the bathroom and take your mobile with TV active on it, and not get
> TeamViewer to banish you.. It really is NOT worth using any longer. There has to be some better free provider
> than TeamViewer, one that isn’t so anal retentive.
>
> Joe
>
> From: Ron Kramer ronkramer1957@... [ap-gto]
> Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2019 8:46 PM
> To: ap-gto@...
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: Remote desktop software weird behavior
>
> They were saying ME OR A CONTACT is using it commercially? Has AP signed up to use it commercially?
> Though I haven't had Horward connect up in over a year. I wonder if he was flagged and those he's connected to?
> I just was clicking around teamviewer to see if I could reset it and found "contacts from recent sessions" list
> which includes Howard4AP.
> ?
>
>
>


Dale Ghent
 

On Aug 30, 2019, at 10:34 AM, 'Ray Gralak (Groups)' groups3@gralak.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Hi Joe,

That now leaves the unresolved dilemma of how Howard and George, can provide us direct, hands-on,
customer support.
There's no dilemma here. A-P has a TeamViewer commercial license which allows them to use it the way they need to.
I think the concern is that when someone who has a commercial TV account (such as A-P) connects to someone else who uses TV under a free, non-commercial account, TeamViewer Inc. then considers the free account to be engaging in commercial activity due to association with the commercial account and thus pulls out the ban hammer.

/dale


Ray Gralak
 

Hi Dale,

I think the concern is that when someone who has a commercial TV account (such as A-P) connects to someone
else who uses TV under a free, non-commercial account, TeamViewer Inc. then considers the free account to be
engaging in commercial activity due to association with the commercial account and thus pulls out the ban
hammer.
Understood. I agree that TV is detecting false positives, but that is the cost of using their software for free. I don't blame them
for wanting to keep their doors open by trying to prevent commercial users from using their product for free. The use pattern of a
commercial customer is probably similar to the way people want to use it for monitoring a computer remotely for their telescope.
It's too bad they don't offer a low-cost personal use license that eliminates the "commercial checking" scheme they are using.

Personally I just make sure I install the Pro version of Windows and use Remote Desktop. I have also had good luck with Radmin,
which is relatively inexpensive ($49 for a server license).

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver


-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2019 8:10 AM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Remote desktop software weird behaviour





On Aug 30, 2019, at 10:34 AM, 'Ray Gralak (Groups)' groups3@gralak.com [ap-gto] <ap-
gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Hi Joe,

That now leaves the unresolved dilemma of how Howard and George, can provide us direct, hands-on,
customer support.
There's no dilemma here. A-P has a TeamViewer commercial license which allows them to use it the way they
need to.

I think the concern is that when someone who has a commercial TV account (such as A-P) connects to someone
else who uses TV under a free, non-commercial account, TeamViewer Inc. then considers the free account to be
engaging in commercial activity due to association with the commercial account and thus pulls out the ban
hammer.

/dale




Joe Zeglinski
 

Hi Dale,
 
    You may be right, but not wrt. AP’s TV commercial account. If your example worked that way for a commercial TV license owner, then THEIR product would stop selling, and that would be a bitter lesson at $600 a seat. I suppose, if we didn’t have a TV license for AP to login, then we as the customer in trouble, would have to login to the AP TV web link – that’s the way Microsoft uses LogMeIn.
 
    I (somewhat) suspect that either a “TV new hire”  software developer or marketing guy, screwed up royally, or some of these competing  “tech support software” companies are acting quite juvenile, and purposely leaving “dirt” behind after a visit, especially when their support visit revealed the presence of their competitor like TeamViewer. A subsequent use of TV, triggers a “commercial use” ban. They may all be playing games in a tight market.
 
    As has been noted worldwide, this seems to be a recent rash of free use TV bans – I have had Howard log in using the AP’s TV account, to my TV free account as a  receiver, a couple of years ago, without any problem. Mind you, the TV’s AI program may have a “counter” on how many times a foreign program has logged in, and seemed to be commercial use, since my ban  didn’t happen until Microsoft logged in a half dozen times over a couple of months.
 
    Also, short of uninstalling TeamViewer, there is no way to kill its TSR  (Terminate but stay resident) function. Its icon is now always active in the taskbar icon area. This started with Version-14 Updates, earlier this year. In previous years versions, there was an OPTIONAL  checkbox in its (EXTRAS-Options-Advanced) settings, to have TV exit after a session – i.e. “Close To Tray Menu” - or leave it running as a background TSR, for easy remote login. That checkbox is now grayed out in the free licenses. If I could toggle it off as a precaution, except when actually logging into TV, I would. It was a nice security option, but now keeps the TV Sniffer nosing around our PC full time.
 
    As for moving forward to a free use program similar to TV, I would use Microsoft RDP, only if it could keep both host and client PC screens and mouse/keyboard active as TV does. Maybe we can convince MS to finally fix their Remote Desktop.
 
    I like the free TightVNC, almost as much as TV, but it is a hassle to have to configure a friend’s or remote family member’s Router or Modem Firewall, just for VNC login.  However – for local LAN backyard use of the telescope, TightVNC seems to fit the bill quite nicely.
So, I am still looking for an easy to use,  “TeamViewer-like” non-commercial use program. Might just use TightVNC for local astronomy, and leave TeamViewer for family/ & friends  remote access, outside the home.
 
    Hope somebody here can suggest another proven hassle-free alternative to TeamViewer – it sure was nice while it behaved itself.
 
Joe
 

From: Dale Ghent daleg@... [ap-gto]
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2019 11:09 AM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Remote desktop software weird behaviour
 


> On Aug 30, 2019, at 10:34 AM, 'Ray Gralak (Groups)' groups3@... [ap-gto] wrote:
>
> Hi Joe,
>
>>    That now leaves the unresolved dilemma of how Howard and George,  can provide us direct, hands-on,
>> customer support.
>
> There's no dilemma here. A-P has a TeamViewer commercial license which allows them to use it the way they need to.

I think the concern is that when someone who has a commercial TV account (such as A-P) connects to someone else who uses TV under a free, non-commercial account, TeamViewer Inc. then considers the free account to be engaging in commercial activity due to association with the commercial account and thus pulls out the ban hammer.

/dale




------------------------------------
Posted by: Dale Ghent
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Ross Salinger <rgsalinger@...>
 

You can turn off TV, or at least I can by simply killing it in task manager. There are 4 processes. I killed them as an experiment about 45 minutes ago and it's still missing from the Processes Tab. FWIW, the Icon is missing as well from the taskbar area. There's no sign of it at all. I assume when I reboot my system it will reappear. I run Version 14 on Win 10 Pro.

I use RDP all the time without any issues. At my local observatory I have three sessions running at once as I have 3 computers that I need to keep track of. I'm not sure what is meant by keeping the mouse/keyboard active. Maybe you mean that you have to click to return to your local desktop? 

As far as "free" there's chrome desktop which works fine as long as you are happy with just one screen to use.

Rgrds-Ross


On 8/30/2019 9:05 AM, 'Joseph Zeglinski' J.Zeglinski@... [ap-gto] wrote:
 

Hi Dale,
 
    You may be right, but not wrt. AP’s TV commercial account. If your example worked that way for a commercial TV license owner, then THEIR product would stop selling, and that would be a bitter lesson at $600 a seat. I suppose, if we didn’t have a TV license for AP to login, then we as the customer in trouble, would have to login to the AP TV web link – that’s the way Microsoft uses LogMeIn.
 
    I (somewhat) suspect that either a “TV new hire”  software developer or marketing guy, screwed up royally, or some of these competing  “tech support software” companies are acting quite juvenile, and purposely leaving “dirt” behind after a visit, especially when their support visit revealed the presence of their competitor like TeamViewer. A subsequent use of TV, triggers a “commercial use” ban. They may all be playing games in a tight market.
 
    As has been noted worldwide, this seems to be a recent rash of free use TV bans – I have had Howard log in using the AP’s TV account, to my TV free account as a  receiver, a couple of years ago, without any problem. Mind you, the TV’s AI program may have a “counter” on how many times a foreign program has logged in, and seemed to be commercial use, since my ban  didn’t happen until Microsoft logged in a half dozen times over a couple of months.
 
    Also, short of uninstalling TeamViewer, there is no way to kill its TSR  (Terminate but stay resident) function. Its icon is now always active in the taskbar icon area. This started with Version-14 Updates, earlier this year. In previous years versions, there was an OPTIONAL  checkbox in its (EXTRAS-Options-Advanced) settings, to have TV exit after a session – i.e. “Close To Tray Menu” - or leave it running as a background TSR, for easy remote login. That checkbox is now grayed out in the free licenses.. If I could toggle it off as a precaution, except when actually logging into TV, I would. It was a nice security option, but now keeps the TV Sniffer nosing around our PC full time.
 
    As for moving forward to a free use program similar to TV, I would use Microsoft RDP, only if it could keep both host and client PC screens and mouse/keyboard active as TV does. Maybe we can convince MS to finally fix their Remote Desktop.
 
    I like the free TightVNC, almost as much as TV, but it is a hassle to have to configure a friend’s or remote family member’s Router or Modem Firewall, just for VNC login.  However – for local LAN backyard use of the telescope, TightVNC seems to fit the bill quite nicely.
So, I am still looking for an easy to use,  “TeamViewer-like” non-commercial use program. Might just use TightVNC for local astronomy, and leave TeamViewer for family/ & friends  remote access, outside the home.
 
    Hope somebody here can suggest another proven hassle-free alternative to TeamViewer – it sure was nice while it behaved itself.
 
Joe
 
From: Dale Ghent daleg@... [ap-gto]
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2019 11:09 AM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Remote desktop software weird behaviour
 


> On Aug 30, 2019, at 10:34 AM, 'Ray Gralak (Groups)' groups3@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Joe,
>
>>    That now leaves the unresolved dilemma of how Howard and George,  can provide us direct, hands-on,
>> customer support.
>
> There's no dilemma here. A-P has a TeamViewer commercial license which allows them to use it the way they need to.

I think the concern is that when someone who has a commercial TV account (such as A-P) connects to someone else who uses TV under a free, non-commercial account, TeamViewer Inc. then considers the free account to be engaging in commercial activity due to association with the commercial account and thus pulls out the ban hammer.

/dale




------------------------------------
Posted by: Dale Ghent <daleg@...>
------------------------------------

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steven ho
 

I too use Remote Desktop which comes as a part of Windows Pro, it's trouble free and just works. As a computer programmer we always had Windows Pro at work and for the small extra fee I buy it for "home" use as well. I don't control my observatory over the internet, it's in my yard.


From: ap-gto@... on behalf of Ross Salinger rgsalinger@... [ap-gto]
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2019 1:04 PM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Remote desktop software weird behaviour
 
 

You can turn off TV, or at least I can by simply killing it in task manager. There are 4 processes. I killed them as an experiment about 45 minutes ago and it's still missing from the Processes Tab. FWIW, the Icon is missing as well from the taskbar area. There's no sign of it at all. I assume when I reboot my system it will reappear. I run Version 14 on Win 10 Pro.

I use RDP all the time without any issues. At my local observatory I have three sessions running at once as I have 3 computers that I need to keep track of. I'm not sure what is meant by keeping the mouse/keyboard active. Maybe you mean that you have to click to return to your local desktop? 

As far as "free" there's chrome desktop which works fine as long as you are happy with just one screen to use.

Rgrds-Ross


On 8/30/2019 9:05 AM, 'Joseph Zeglinski' J.Zeglinski@... [ap-gto] wrote:
 

Hi Dale,
 
    You may be right, but not wrt. AP’s TV commercial account. If your example worked that way for a commercial TV license owner, then THEIR product would stop selling, and that would be a bitter lesson at $600 a seat. I suppose, if we didn’t have a TV license for AP to login, then we as the customer in trouble, would have to login to the AP TV web link – that’s the way Microsoft uses LogMeIn.
 
    I (somewhat) suspect that either a “TV new hire”  software developer or marketing guy, screwed up royally, or some of these competing  “tech support software” companies are acting quite juvenile, and purposely leaving “dirt” behind after a visit, especially when their support visit revealed the presence of their competitor like TeamViewer. A subsequent use of TV, triggers a “commercial use” ban. They may all be playing games in a tight market.
 
    As has been noted worldwide, this seems to be a recent rash of free use TV bans – I have had Howard log in using the AP’s TV account, to my TV free account as a  receiver, a couple of years ago, without any problem. Mind you, the TV’s AI program may have a “counter” on how many times a foreign program has logged in, and seemed to be commercial use, since my ban  didn’t happen until Microsoft logged in a half dozen times over a couple of months.
 
    Also, short of uninstalling TeamViewer, there is no way to kill its TSR  (Terminate but stay resident) function. Its icon is now always active in the taskbar icon area. This started with Version-14 Updates, earlier this year. In previous years versions, there was an OPTIONAL  checkbox in its (EXTRAS-Options-Advanced) settings, to have TV exit after a session – i.e. “Close To Tray Menu” - or leave it running as a background TSR, for easy remote login. That checkbox is now grayed out in the free licenses.. If I could toggle it off as a precaution, except when actually logging into TV, I would. It was a nice security option, but now keeps the TV Sniffer nosing around our PC full time.
 
    As for moving forward to a free use program similar to TV, I would use Microsoft RDP, only if it could keep both host and client PC screens and mouse/keyboard active as TV does. Maybe we can convince MS to finally fix their Remote Desktop.
 
    I like the free TightVNC, almost as much as TV, but it is a hassle to have to configure a friend’s or remote family member’s Router or Modem Firewall, just for VNC login.  However – for local LAN backyard use of the telescope, TightVNC seems to fit the bill quite nicely.
So, I am still looking for an easy to use,  “TeamViewer-like” non-commercial use program. Might just use TightVNC for local astronomy, and leave TeamViewer for family/ & friends  remote access, outside the home.
 
    Hope somebody here can suggest another proven hassle-free alternative to TeamViewer – it sure was nice while it behaved itself.
 
Joe
 
From: Dale Ghent daleg@... [ap-gto]
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2019 11:09 AM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Remote desktop software weird behaviour
 


> On Aug 30, 2019, at 10:34 AM, 'Ray Gralak (Groups)' groups3@... [ap-gto] wrote:
>
> Hi Joe,
>
>>    That now leaves the unresolved dilemma of how Howard and George,  can provide us direct, hands-on,
>> customer support.
>
> There's no dilemma here. A-P has a TeamViewer commercial license which allows them to use it the way they need to.

I think the concern is that when someone who has a commercial TV account (such as A-P) connects to someone else who uses TV under a free, non-commercial account, TeamViewer Inc. then considers the free account to be engaging in commercial activity due to association with the commercial account and thus pulls out the ban hammer.

/dale




------------------------------------
Posted by: Dale Ghent
------------------------------------

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Joe Zeglinski
 

Hi Ross,
 
    I just tried Win-10 Pro connection via the Microsoft RDP WiFi to link to a Win-7 PRO laptop 10 feet away – and the initial connection to the (remote, scope PC) works fine.
 
    However, the target, (e.g. scope) laptop logs out its user back to the Win-10 Login screen. That means I have to spend precious seconds/minutes to log back in from there, password etc., In a scope control  emergency such as a potential pier collision, there is no time for all that fallder-all.
Meanwhile, the originating desktop RDP session user window gets logged off (still having the remote desktop screen in view, but dead), and I get the following error message ...
 
Your Remote Desktop Services session has ended.
Another user connected to the remote computer, so your connection was lost. Try connecting
again, or contact your network admin or tech support group
 
    So, RDP is fine controlling the scope from one side of the link , but not like TeamViewer, or TightVNC, which keep BOTH PC’s sessions live, with active user control at both ends,  and commands can be entered from either keyboard, and either mouse.
I would consider MS RDP, but this is the way it has always worked, ever since Win-XP PRO days – i.e.  badly.
Microsoft didn’t complete the job on this, and certainly no good reason for insisting on the PRO version premium.
However, I recall I could link to the remote via Browser to  scope PC’s  IP link - without the need of messing with the remote’s Router Port setup,  from a really distant remote – but that would be a really risky “sneakers run, LAN” link, if something goes south.
 
    Ross, perhaps I am missing something in Microsoft RDP setup, or is this the “normal” way RDP is used – from one side only, no shared session?
 
Joe
 
 
 
From: Ross Salinger rgsalinger@... [ap-gto]
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2019 1:04 PM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Remote desktop software weird behaviour
 


You can turn off TV, or at least I can by simply killing it in task manager. There are 4 processes. I killed them as an experiment about 45 minutes ago and it's still missing from the Processes Tab. FWIW, the Icon is missing as well from the taskbar area. There's no sign of it at all. I assume when I reboot my system it will reappear. I run Version 14 on Win 10 Pro.

I use RDP all the time without any issues. At my local observatory I have three sessions running at once as I have 3 computers that I need to keep track of. I'm not sure what is meant by keeping the mouse/keyboard active. Maybe you mean that you have to click to return to your local desktop? 

As far as "free" there's chrome desktop which works fine as long as you are happy with just one screen to use.

Rgrds-Ross

 

On 8/30/2019 9:05 AM, 'Joseph Zeglinski' J.Zeglinski@... [ap-gto] wrote:
 
Hi Dale,
 
    You may be right, but not wrt. AP’s TV commercial account. If your example worked that way for a commercial TV license owner, then THEIR product would stop selling, and that would be a bitter lesson at $600 a seat. I suppose, if we didn’t have a TV license for AP to login, then we as the customer in trouble, would have to login to the AP TV web link – that’s the way Microsoft uses LogMeIn.
 
    I (somewhat) suspect that either a “TV new hire”  software developer or marketing guy, screwed up royally, or some of these competing  “tech support software” companies are acting quite juvenile, and purposely leaving “dirt” behind after a visit, especially when their support visit revealed the presence of their competitor like TeamViewer. A subsequent use of TV, triggers a “commercial use” ban. They may all be playing games in a tight market.
 
    As has been noted worldwide, this seems to be a recent rash of free use TV bans – I have had Howard log in using the AP’s TV account, to my TV free account as a  receiver, a couple of years ago, without any problem. Mind you, the TV’s AI program may have a “counter” on how many times a foreign program has logged in, and seemed to be commercial use, since my ban  didn’t happen until Microsoft logged in a half dozen times over a couple of months.
 
    Also, short of uninstalling TeamViewer, there is no way to kill its TSR  (Terminate but stay resident) function. Its icon is now always active in the taskbar icon area. This started with Version-14 Updates, earlier this year. In previous years versions, there was an OPTIONAL  checkbox in its (EXTRAS-Options-Advanced) settings, to have TV exit after a session – i.e. “Close To Tray Menu” - or leave it running as a background TSR, for easy remote login. That checkbox is now grayed out in the free licenses.. If I could toggle it off as a precaution, except when actually logging into TV, I would. It was a nice security option, but now keeps the TV Sniffer nosing around our PC full time.
 
    As for moving forward to a free use program similar to TV, I would use Microsoft RDP, only if it could keep both host and client PC screens and mouse/keyboard active as TV does. Maybe we can convince MS to finally fix their Remote Desktop.
 
    I like the free TightVNC, almost as much as TV, but it is a hassle to have to configure a friend’s or remote family member’s Router or Modem Firewall, just for VNC login.  However – for local LAN backyard use of the telescope, TightVNC seems to fit the bill quite nicely.
So, I am still looking for an easy to use,  “TeamViewer-like” non-commercial use program. Might just use TightVNC for local astronomy, and leave TeamViewer for family/ & friends  remote access, outside the home.
 
    Hope somebody here can suggest another proven hassle-free alternative to TeamViewer – it sure was nice while it behaved itself.
 
Joe
 
From: Dale Ghent daleg@... [ap-gto]
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2019 11:09 AM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Remote desktop software weird behaviour
 


> On Aug 30, 2019, at 10:34 AM, 'Ray Gralak (Groups)' groups3@... [ap-gto] mailto:ap-gto@... wrote:
>
> Hi Joe,
>
>>    That now leaves the unresolved dilemma of how Howard and George,  can provide us direct, hands-on,
>> customer support.
>
> There's no dilemma here. A-P has a TeamViewer commercial license which allows them to use it the way they need to.

I think the concern is that when someone who has a commercial TV account (such as A-P) connects to someone else who uses TV under a free, non-commercial account, TeamViewer Inc. then considers the free account to be engaging in commercial activity due to association with the commercial account and thus pulls out the ban hammer.

/dale




------------------------------------
Posted by: Dale Ghent mailto:daleg@...
------------------------------------

To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list
see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gto
------------------------------------

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steven ho
 

Joe sorry for butting in but I may have experienced the same issue, not exactly sure. But my issue was fixed when I switch from a TCP to a UDP connection. Then if the network threw a hissy fit it would calm down in a minute or two without loosing connection to the mount which made it go into a "parked" state.

steve


From: ap-gto@... on behalf of 'Joseph Zeglinski' J.Zeglinski@... [ap-gto]
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2019 2:28 PM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Remote desktop software weird behaviour
 
 

Hi Ross,
 
    I just tried Win-10 Pro connection via the Microsoft RDP WiFi to link to a Win-7 PRO laptop 10 feet away – and the initial connection to the (remote, scope PC) works fine.
 
    However, the target, (e.g. scope) laptop logs out its user back to the Win-10 Login screen. That means I have to spend precious seconds/minutes to log back in from there, password etc., In a scope control  emergency such as a potential pier collision, there is no time for all that fallder-all.
Meanwhile, the originating desktop RDP session user window gets logged off (still having the remote desktop screen in view, but dead), and I get the following error message ...
 
Your Remote Desktop Services session has ended.
Another user connected to the remote computer, so your connection was lost. Try connecting
again, or contact your network admin or tech support group
 
    So, RDP is fine controlling the scope from one side of the link , but not like TeamViewer, or TightVNC, which keep BOTH PC’s sessions live, with active user control at both ends,  and commands can be entered from either keyboard, and either mouse.
I would consider MS RDP, but this is the way it has always worked, ever since Win-XP PRO days – i.e.  badly.
Microsoft didn’t complete the job on this, and certainly no good reason for insisting on the PRO version premium.
However, I recall I could link to the remote via Browser to  scope PC’s  IP link - without the need of messing with the remote’s Router Port setup,  from a really distant remote – but that would be a really risky “sneakers run, LAN” link, if something goes south.
 
    Ross, perhaps I am missing something in Microsoft RDP setup, or is this the “normal” way RDP is used – from one side only, no shared session?
 
Joe
 
 
 
From: Ross Salinger rgsalinger@... [ap-gto]
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2019 1:04 PM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Remote desktop software weird behaviour
 


You can turn off TV, or at least I can by simply killing it in task manager. There are 4 processes. I killed them as an experiment about 45 minutes ago and it's still missing from the Processes Tab. FWIW, the Icon is missing as well from the taskbar area. There's no sign of it at all. I assume when I reboot my system it will reappear. I run Version 14 on Win 10 Pro.

I use RDP all the time without any issues. At my local observatory I have three sessions running at once as I have 3 computers that I need to keep track of. I'm not sure what is meant by keeping the mouse/keyboard active. Maybe you mean that you have to click to return to your local desktop? 

As far as "free" there's chrome desktop which works fine as long as you are happy with just one screen to use.

Rgrds-Ross

 

On 8/30/2019 9:05 AM, 'Joseph Zeglinski' J.Zeglinski@... [ap-gto] wrote:
 
Hi Dale,
 
    You may be right, but not wrt. AP’s TV commercial account. If your example worked that way for a commercial TV license owner, then THEIR product would stop selling, and that would be a bitter lesson at $600 a seat. I suppose, if we didn’t have a TV license for AP to login, then we as the customer in trouble, would have to login to the AP TV web link – that’s the way Microsoft uses LogMeIn.
 
    I (somewhat) suspect that either a “TV new hire”  software developer or marketing guy, screwed up royally, or some of these competing  “tech support software” companies are acting quite juvenile, and purposely leaving “dirt” behind after a visit, especially when their support visit revealed the presence of their competitor like TeamViewer. A subsequent use of TV, triggers a “commercial use” ban. They may all be playing games in a tight market.
 
    As has been noted worldwide, this seems to be a recent rash of free use TV bans – I have had Howard log in using the AP’s TV account, to my TV free account as a  receiver, a couple of years ago, without any problem. Mind you, the TV’s AI program may have a “counter” on how many times a foreign program has logged in, and seemed to be commercial use, since my ban  didn’t happen until Microsoft logged in a half dozen times over a couple of months.
 
    Also, short of uninstalling TeamViewer, there is no way to kill its TSR  (Terminate but stay resident) function. Its icon is now always active in the taskbar icon area. This started with Version-14 Updates, earlier this year. In previous years versions, there was an OPTIONAL  checkbox in its (EXTRAS-Options-Advanced) settings, to have TV exit after a session – i.e. “Close To Tray Menu” - or leave it running as a background TSR, for easy remote login. That checkbox is now grayed out in the free licenses.. If I could toggle it off as a precaution, except when actually logging into TV, I would. It was a nice security option, but now keeps the TV Sniffer nosing around our PC full time.
 
    As for moving forward to a free use program similar to TV, I would use Microsoft RDP, only if it could keep both host and client PC screens and mouse/keyboard active as TV does. Maybe we can convince MS to finally fix their Remote Desktop.
 
    I like the free TightVNC, almost as much as TV, but it is a hassle to have to configure a friend’s or remote family member’s Router or Modem Firewall, just for VNC login.  However – for local LAN backyard use of the telescope, TightVNC seems to fit the bill quite nicely.
So, I am still looking for an easy to use,  “TeamViewer-like” non-commercial use program. Might just use TightVNC for local astronomy, and leave TeamViewer for family/ & friends  remote access, outside the home.
 
    Hope somebody here can suggest another proven hassle-free alternative to TeamViewer – it sure was nice while it behaved itself.
 
Joe
 
From: Dale Ghent daleg@... [ap-gto]
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2019 11:09 AM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Remote desktop software weird behaviour
 


> On Aug 30, 2019, at 10:34 AM, 'Ray Gralak (Groups)' groups3@... [ap-gto] mailto:ap-gto@... wrote:
>
> Hi Joe,
>
>>    That now leaves the unresolved dilemma of how Howard and George,  can provide us direct, hands-on,
>> customer support.
>
> There's no dilemma here. A-P has a TeamViewer commercial license which allows them to use it the way they need to.

I think the concern is that when someone who has a commercial TV account (such as A-P) connects to someone else who uses TV under a free, non-commercial account, TeamViewer Inc. then considers the free account to be engaging in commercial activity due to association with the commercial account and thus pulls out the ban hammer.

/dale




------------------------------------
Posted by: Dale Ghent mailto:daleg@...
------------------------------------

To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list
see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gto
------------------------------------

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George LaBelle
 

Ray, it is not clear on the Radmin site. Is that a $49 - one time - purchase, or is it yearly or monthly?

Looks good!

I have been using Remote Utilities for a while now - direct local LAN with a free license. But after the TV fiasco, I'm, leery of "FREE".


Steve Reilly
 

Your Radmin purchase will include:

·         Perpetual licensing, one-time fee

·         Minor upgrades

·         Free Radmin Viewer: system administrators and users may access their remote computers from anywhere

·         Free Radmin mass deployment and setup tools

·         Technical support via ticket system

·         No hidden costs

 

 

From: ap-gto@...
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2019 3:17 PM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Remote desktop software weird behaviour

 

 

Ray, it is not clear on the Radmin site. Is that a $49 - one time - purchase, or is it yearly or monthly?

 

Looks good!

 

I have been using Remote Utilities for a while now - direct local LAN with a free license. But after the TV fiasco, I'm, leery of "FREE".


Joe Zeglinski
 

    Certainly seems reasonable.
 
    So, comparing RADMIN to TeamViewer, besides our telescope, our family  and friends we help remotely, would each have to pay their own  one-time fee, so we could login to help them with PC’s as needed. For a remote telescope, its PC would have to be a server with RADMIN license  at each end, in order to login to control it, plus one more copy at home, to access home PC files when we visit the remote site for service, or from any other location. This begins to add up somewhat, and get complicated.
 
    But may be better than other options.
Joe
 

From: sreilly24590@... [ap-gto]
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2019 3:44 PM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Remote desktop software weird behaviour
 

Your Radmin purchase will include:

·         Perpetual licensing, one-time fee
·         Minor upgrades
·         Free Radmin Viewer: system administrators and users may access their remote computers from anywhere
·        Free Radmin mass deployment and setup tools
·        Technical support via ticket system
·         No hidden costs
***********************************************


Ray Gralak
 

Ray, it is not clear on the Radmin site. Is that a $49 - one time - purchase,
or is it yearly or monthly?
That's a perpetual one-time fee for a server on one computer. The client application is free.

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver

-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2019 12:17 PM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Remote desktop software weird behaviour



Ray, it is not clear on the Radmin site. Is that a $49 - one time - purchase, or is it yearly or monthly?

Looks good!

I have been using Remote Utilities for a while now - direct local LAN with a free license. But after the TV fiasco,
I'm, leery of "FREE".