SGP Pier Flip and APCC


dvuolhhr6nx4a532a3phnju3zs6lzvlgxdl2wzaf@...
 

Hi,


When imaging using SGP you get a read out in the bottom right showing you the time remaining until SGP will flip the scope (if you have the "auto flip" selected). Can anyone explain to me how to get SGP to flip an hour earlier (I think you have to do something within APCC wrt meridian limits?) as the FW gets awfully close to the pier and I'd like the flip to occur sooner - assuming it won't hit the pier on the opposite side if I flip earlier :)


R Botero
 

Tony

I asked about this back in November 2015 in the SGP forum:  http://forum.mainsequencesoftware.com/t/apcc-and-meridian-flips/2545


I don't know what the status is since I never became a user of SGP.  I use a freeware software called MaxPilote for my observatory/imaging control.  As far as I know, it's the only piece of software that allows me to fully use APCC meridian limits to image with counterweights up for as long as possible (sometimes all night).

Roberto
 


Ben Koltenbah
 

I just posted essentially this same question yesterday!  I wanted to see if this matter had been resolved within the past several years, and to my knowledge it has not.  Looks like I'm not the only one wondering about this topic.

Let me share with you a workaround that I use in order to meridian flip early when using SGP with APCC.  In APCC I set the Meridian Delay or limits as desired.  Understand that this controls the behavior of slew commands, not meridian tracking.

Left to its own, SGP, when running through a sequence, will execute a meridian flip when the current target crosses the meridian.  If I really want to flip early, I split the target into two consecutive targets and set the stop time for the first one to occur just as the target enters the zone for when I wish to flip.  Then, when the next target (which is actually the same one) starts, SGP first issues a slew command.  Now the mount slews to the other side of the pier with CW's up as I wish, and the sequence continues.

I know this isn't ideal, but it's the only way I've found to work around this issue automatically within a sequence.

The question from my earlier post still stands, however.  Is there now a more automated way to do what I just described?

Best Regards,
Ben



dvuolhhr6nx4a532a3phnju3zs6lzvlgxdl2wzaf@...
 

Hi Ben,

That does sound like a good work around and will set up SGP for that.

Thanks


Ray Gralak
 

I just posted essentially this same question <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ap-
gto/conversations/messages/63869> yesterday! I wanted to see if this matter had been resolved within the past
several years, and to my knowledge it has not. Looks like I'm not the only one wondering about this topic.
It's just a matter of setting the meridian delay graph appropriately.

Left to its own, SGP, when running through a sequence, will execute a meridian flip when the current target crosses
the meridian.
Not necessarily! Whether a flip will occur or not depends on the Meridian delay set in the mount. Even though any ASCOM application could read the meridian delay from APCC or the driver, most applications do not because the ASCOM telescope interface does not support that functionality.

The question from my earlier post still stands, however. Is there now a more automated way to do what I just
described?
Yes... SGP, or any other ASCOM client, can be programmed to read/write the meridian delay.

Or, you can configure the meridian limits appropriately as what was discussed in this thread about 5-6 weeks ago:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ap-gto/conversations/topics/63469

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver


-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2018 9:23 AM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: SGP Pier Flip and APCC



I just posted essentially this same question <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ap-
gto/conversations/messages/63869> yesterday! I wanted to see if this matter had been resolved within the past
several years, and to my knowledge it has not. Looks like I'm not the only one wondering about this topic.


Let me share with you a workaround that I use in order to meridian flip early when using SGP with APCC. In APCC I
set the Meridian Delay or limits as desired. Understand that this controls the behavior of slew commands, not meridian
tracking.

Left to its own, SGP, when running through a sequence, will execute a meridian flip when the current target crosses
the meridian. If I really want to flip early, I split the target into two consecutive targets and set the stop time for the first
one to occur just as th e target enters the zone for when I wish to flip. Then, when the next target (which is actually the
same one) starts, SGP first issues a slew command. Now the mount slews to the other side of the pier with CW's up
as I wish, and the sequence continues.

I know this isn't ideal, but it's the only way I've found to work around this issue automatically within a sequence.

The question from my earlier post still stands, however. Is there now a more automated way to do what I just
described?


Best Regards,
Ben




Keith Olsen
 

Hi Ray,

Are you still considering adding a new mode to APCC that would force a pier flip to pier side East(which can result in counter weight up) as long as the target is within East limits even when the pier side is West?  

I hope I worded that correct lol.

Thanks,
Keith
 


Bill Long
 

The Flip Pier button doesnt do what you want it to? 




From: ap-gto@... on behalf of keitholsen@... [ap-gto]
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2018 7:41 PM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Re: SGP Pier Flip and APCC
 
 

Hi Ray,


Are you still considering adding a new mode to APCC that would force a pier flip to pier side East(which can result in counter weight up) as long as the target is within East limits even when the pier side is West?  

I hope I worded that correct lol.

Thanks,
Keith
 


Ray Gralak
 

Hi Keith,

Are you still considering adding a new mode to APCC that would force a pier flip to pier side East(which can result
in counter weight up) as long as the target is within East limits even when the pier side is West?
As I said previously in that thread, it is up to A-P (and in that thread Marj explicitly said "no" for now.)

Best regards,

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver


-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2018 7:41 PM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Re: SGP Pier Flip and APCC



Hi Ray,

Are you still considering adding a new mode to APCC that would force a pier flip to pier side East(which can result
in counter weight up) as long as the target is within East limits even when the pier side is West?


I hope I worded that correct lol.


Thanks,
Keith



Bill Long
 

On this "Yes" vs "No" trend, has AP even thought about real INDI support? Half the work has already been done by Mike. Taking it to the finish line cant be that hard.




From: ap-gto@... on behalf of 'Ray Gralak (Groups)' groups3@... [ap-gto]
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2018 9:34 PM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Re: SGP Pier Flip and APCC
 
 

Hi Keith,

> Are you still considering adding a new mode to APCC that would force a pier flip to pier side East(which can result
> in counter weight up) as long as the target is within East limits even when the pier side is West?

As I said previously in that thread, it is up to A-P (and in that thread Marj explicitly said "no" for now.)

Best regards,

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
> Sent: Friday, October 5, 2018 7:41 PM
> To: ap-gto@...
> Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Re: SGP Pier Flip and APCC
>
>
>
> Hi Ray,
>
> Are you still considering adding a new mode to APCC that would force a pier flip to pier side East(which can result
> in counter weight up) as long as the target is within East limits even when the pier side is West?
>
>
> I hope I worded that correct lol.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Keith
>
>
>


Ray Gralak
 

Hi Bill,

On this "Yes" vs "No" trend, has AP even thought about real INDI support?
You'll need to ask Howard or Marj for an update on the protocol document.

Half the work has already been done by Mike. Taking it to the finish line cant be that hard.
Nothing against Mike here, because he wouldn't know this without the updated document that Howard is producing, but it looks like
the INDI driver probably needs a lot more work to support the different firmware variations. And a lot of testing...

Best regards,

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver


-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2018 9:41 PM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: SGP Pier Flip and APCC



On this "Yes" vs "No" trend, has AP even thought about real INDI support? Half the work has already been done
by Mike. Taking it to the finish line cant be that hard.



________________________________

From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of 'Ray Gralak (Groups)'
groups3@gralak.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2018 9:34 PM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Re: SGP Pier Flip and APCC



Hi Keith,

Are you still considering adding a new mode to APCC that would force a pier flip to pier side East(which can
result
in counter weight up) as long as the target is within East limits even when the pier side is West?
As I said previously in that thread, it is up to A-P (and in that thread Marj explicitly said "no" for now.)

Best regards,

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-
physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver

-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2018 7:41 PM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Re: SGP Pier Flip and APCC



Hi Ray,

Are you still considering adding a new mode to APCC that would force a pier flip to pier side East(which can
result
in counter weight up) as long as the target is within East limits even when the pier side is West?


I hope I worded that correct lol.


Thanks,
Keith





Bill Long
 

Could use the open source model of testing, have the users that want it, test it.


Even MS does this. :) 




From: ap-gto@... on behalf of 'Ray Gralak (Groups)' groups3@... [ap-gto]
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2018 10:15 PM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Re: SGP Pier Flip and APCC
 
 

Hi Bill,

> On this "Yes" vs "No" trend, has AP even thought about real INDI support?

You'll need to ask Howard or Marj for an update on the protocol document.

> Half the work has already been done by Mike. Taking it to the finish line cant be that hard.

Nothing against Mike here, because he wouldn't know this without the updated document that Howard is producing, but it looks like
the INDI driver probably needs a lot more work to support the different firmware variations. And a lot of testing...

Best regards,

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
> Sent: Friday, October 5, 2018 9:41 PM
> To: ap-gto@...
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: SGP Pier Flip and APCC
>
>
>
> On this "Yes" vs "No" trend, has AP even thought about real INDI support? Half the work has already been done
> by Mike. Taking it to the finish line cant be that hard.
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: ap-gto@... on behalf of 'Ray Gralak (Groups)'
> groups3@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...>
> Sent: Friday, October 5, 2018 9:34 PM
> To: ap-gto@...
> Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Re: SGP Pier Flip and APCC
>
>
>
> Hi Keith,
>
> > Are you still considering adding a new mode to APCC that would force a pier flip to pier side East(which can
> result
> > in counter weight up) as long as the target is within East limits even when the pier side is West?
>
> As I said previously in that thread, it is up to A-P (and in that thread Marj explicitly said "no" for now.)
>
> Best regards,
>
> -Ray Gralak
> Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-
> physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
> Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
> Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
> > Sent: Friday, October 5, 2018 7:41 PM
> > To: ap-gto@...
> > Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Re: SGP Pier Flip and APCC
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Ray,
> >
> > Are you still considering adding a new mode to APCC that would force a pier flip to pier side East(which can
> result
> > in counter weight up) as long as the target is within East limits even when the pier side is West?
> >
> >
> > I hope I worded that correct lol.
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Keith
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>


Ray Gralak
 

Could use the open source model of testing, have the users that want it, test it.
Even MS does this. :)
Yes, but Microsoft has a very large captive audience, including the huge majority of amateur astronomy users via ASCOM.

Is there a way to tell how many Astro-Physics mounts are using INDI now?

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver


-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2018 10:17 PM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: SGP Pier Flip and APCC



Could use the open source model of testing, have the users that want it, test it.




Even MS does this. :)



________________________________

From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of 'Ray Gralak (Groups)'
groups3@gralak.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2018 10:15 PM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Re: SGP Pier Flip and APCC



Hi Bill,

On this "Yes" vs "No" trend, has AP even thought about real INDI support?
You'll need to ask Howard or Marj for an update on the protocol document.

Half the work has already been done by Mike. Taking it to the finish line cant be that hard.
Nothing against Mike here, because he wouldn't know this without the updated document that Howard is
producing, but it looks like
the INDI driver probably needs a lot more work to support the different firmware variations. And a lot of testing...

Best regards,

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-
physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver

-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2018 9:41 PM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: SGP Pier Flip and APCC



On this "Yes" vs "No" trend, has AP even thought about real INDI support? Half the work has already been done
by Mike. Taking it to the finish line cant be that hard.



________________________________

From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of 'Ray Gralak (Groups)'
groups3@gralak.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2018 9:34 PM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Re: SGP Pier Flip and APCC



Hi Keith,

Are you still considering adding a new mode to APCC that would force a pier flip to pier side East(which can
result
in counter weight up) as long as the target is within East limits even when the pier side is West?
As I said previously in that thread, it is up to A-P (and in that thread Marj explicitly said "no" for now.)

Best regards,

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-
physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver

-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2018 7:41 PM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Re: SGP Pier Flip and APCC



Hi Ray,

Are you still considering adding a new mode to APCC that would force a pier flip to pier side East(which can
result
in counter weight up) as long as the target is within East limits even when the pier side is West?


I hope I worded that correct lol.


Thanks,
Keith







Michael Fulbright <mike.fulbright@...>
 

I find the current 'experimental' AP driver in INDI does everything I need to take a night after night of usable data.  So I've considered it "good enough' for awhile now.   I got it to the point it has what I needed - which was primarily pulse guiding and meridian delay.  I pretty much keep an eye on my scope while imaging so I haven't had a need for anything fancier.

And honestly without an updated protocol document I really don't feel invested to keep spending time on the driver as there isn't much more it can do otherwise.

I think any enthusiastic hobbyist who enjoys astronomy and computing would be successful using INDI and Linux.  I've had alot of fun being able to modify the behavior of various components of my imaging software stack to act as I want it to and add features I need, etc.  To me the computing side of imaging is as much part of the hobby as the astronomy side so this project really hits all the right spots.

For someone wanting a push button remote system that streams frames to their home it is probably not the best solution.  I know people and universities use it this way but it takes a level of technical competence to get it going some people might just rather not need to develop.

It would be nice to have complete documentation for how to use the mount so I could get the most out of it.  The 'G' protocol that is the current level of documentation is inadequate.    It would also be a nice move to have documentation so an open source tool to generate and program PEC curves could be developed.   I would really like to get away from needing Windows for any part of my imaging solution and unfortunately this is not possible with AP mounts (yet).  At the moment I find that a con for using AP mounts and if there was another high end solution offering this I'd be tempted.   And no running SkyX on a Raspberry Pi is not a solution imho.

Certainly better INDI support is not necessary for most users and their use cases, but I don't see this as a zero sum game since volunteers out there would provide the majority of the heavy lifting for these open source efforts.  Really just needs documentation so people can understand how the hardware they own works.

Michael Fulbright

On 10/6/2018 5:17 AM, Bill Long bill@... [ap-gto] wrote:
 

Could use the open source model of testing, have the users that want it, test it.


Even MS does this. :) 




From: ap-gto@... on behalf of 'Ray Gralak (Groups)' groups3@... [ap-gto]
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2018 10:15 PM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Re: SGP Pier Flip and APCC
 
 

Hi Bill,

> On this "Yes" vs "No" trend, has AP even thought about real INDI support?

You'll need to ask Howard or Marj for an update on the protocol document.

> Half the work has already been done by Mike. Taking it to the finish line cant be that hard.

Nothing against Mike here, because he wouldn't know this without the updated document that Howard is producing, but it looks like
the INDI driver probably needs a lot more work to support the different firmware variations. And a lot of testing...

Best regards,

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
> Sent: Friday, October 5, 2018 9:41 PM
> To: ap-gto@...
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: SGP Pier Flip and APCC
>
>
>
> On this "Yes" vs "No" trend, has AP even thought about real INDI support? Half the work has already been done
> by Mike. Taking it to the finish line cant be that hard.
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: ap-gto@... on behalf of 'Ray Gralak (Groups)'
> groups3@... [ap-gto]
> Sent: Friday, October 5, 2018 9:34 PM
> To: ap-gto@...
> Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Re: SGP Pier Flip and APCC
>
>
>
> Hi Keith,
>
> > Are you still considering adding a new mode to APCC that would force a pier flip to pier side East(which can
> result
> > in counter weight up) as long as the target is within East limits even when the pier side is West?
>
> As I said previously in that thread, it is up to A-P (and in that thread Marj explicitly said "no" for now.)
>
> Best regards,
>
> -Ray Gralak
> Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-
> physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
> Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
> Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
> > Sent: Friday, October 5, 2018 7:41 PM
> > To: ap-gto@...
> > Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Re: SGP Pier Flip and APCC
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Ray,
> >
> > Are you still considering adding a new mode to APCC that would force a pier flip to pier side East(which can
> result
> > in counter weight up) as long as the target is within East limits even when the pier side is West?
> >
> >
> > I hope I worded that correct lol.
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Keith
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>



Ray Gralak
 

Hi Michael,

It would be nice to have complete documentation for how to use the mount so I could get the most out of it. The
'G' protocol that is the current level of documentation is inadequate.
Over 15 years ago I wrote "PulseGuide", a C++ windows application with less documentation than is available today. When PulseGuide
was developed the GTOCP3 was new and firmware was only "D".
This firmware didn't even have adjustable tracking rates or meridian delays but I implemented these two features and more. I also
implemented counterweight-up parking too.

My point is that all the commands necessary for imaging/remote operations where available then. Sure there have been many
improvements and new commands added, but most are not absolutely required for imaging.

It would also be a nice move to have documentation so an open source tool to generate
and program PEC curves could be developed.
OK, so what's stopping you *today* from starting that? Most mounts don't have direct uploads to the mount so the most basic feature
it will need is to playback a generated curve while the mount captures the data. PEMPro was able to do that 15 years ago so there is
a precedent that it can work, even with A-P mounts.

That said, the hard part is not uploading to the mount. That's just a small fraction of the work required.

I would really like to get away from needing Windows for any part of my imaging solution and unfortunately this
is not possible with AP mounts (yet). At the moment I find that a con for using AP mounts and if there was
another high end solution offering this I'd be tempted. And no running SkyX on a Raspberry Pi is not a
solution imho.
I thought TheSkyX can run on a Mac. Doesn't that meet your criteria?

As I said previously, I think the next step might be an ASCOM implementation using .Net Core, which is cross-platform compatible
between Windows, Mac OS, and LINUX.

What's cool about .Net Core 3.x is that it will support WinForms and WPF applications. Thus, apps like APCC, PEMPro, SGPro,
CCDAutoPilot, etc., could be modified to run on LINUX/Mac OS.

Best regards,

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver


-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Saturday, October 6, 2018 7:37 AM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: SGP Pier Flip and APCC



I find the current 'experimental' AP driver in INDI does everything I need to take a night after night of usable data.
So I've considered it "good enough' for awhile now. I got it to the point it has what I needed - which was primarily
pulse guiding and meridian delay. I pretty much keep an eye on my scope while imaging so I haven't had a need
for anything fancier.

And honestly without an updated protocol document I really don't feel invested to keep spending time on the driver
as there isn't much more it can do otherwise.

I think any enthusiastic hobbyist who enjoys astronomy and computing would be successful using INDI and Linux.
I've had alot of fun being able to modify the behavior of various components of my imaging software stack to act
as I want it to and add features I need, etc. To me the computing side of imaging is as much part of the hobby as
the astronomy side so this project really hits all the right spots.

For someone wanting a push button remote system that streams frames to their home it is probably not the best
solution. I know people and universities use it this way but it takes a level of technical competence to get it going
some people might just rather not need to develop.

It would be nice to have complete documentation for how to use the mount so I could get the most out of it. The
'G' protocol that is the current level of documentation is inadequate. It would also be a nice move to have
documentation so an open source tool to generate and program PEC curves could be developed. I would really
like to get away from needing Windows for any part of my imaging solution and unfortunately this is not possible
with AP mounts (yet). At the moment I find that a con for using AP mounts and if there was another high end
solution offering this I'd be tempted. And no running SkyX on a Raspberry Pi is not a solution imho.

Certainly better INDI support is not necessary for most users and their use cases, but I don't see this as a zero
sum game since volunteers out there would provide the majority of the heavy lifting for these open source efforts.
Really just needs documentation so people can understand how the hardware they own works.

Michael Fulbright


On 10/6/2018 5:17 AM, Bill Long bill@outlook.com [ap-gto] wrote:






Could use the open source model of testing, have the users that want it, test it.




Even MS does this. :)



________________________________

From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> <mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> on
behalf of 'Ray Gralak (Groups)' groups3@gralak.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> <mailto:ap-
gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2018 10:15 PM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Re: SGP Pier Flip and APCC



Hi Bill,

> On this "Yes" vs "No" trend, has AP even thought about real INDI support?

You'll need to ask Howard or Marj for an update on the protocol document.

> Half the work has already been done by Mike. Taking it to the finish line cant be that hard.

Nothing against Mike here, because he wouldn't know this without the updated document that Howard is
producing, but it looks like
the INDI driver probably needs a lot more work to support the different firmware variations. And a lot of
testing...

Best regards,

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-
physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]
> Sent: Friday, October 5, 2018 9:41 PM
> To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: SGP Pier Flip and APCC
>
>
>
> On this "Yes" vs "No" trend, has AP even thought about real INDI support? Half the work has already
been done
> by Mike. Taking it to the finish line cant be that hard.
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> <mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> on
behalf of 'Ray Gralak (Groups)'
> groups3@gralak.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> <mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, October 5, 2018 9:34 PM
> To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Re: SGP Pier Flip and APCC
>
>
>
> Hi Keith,
>
> > Are you still considering adding a new mode to APCC that would force a pier flip to pier side East(which
can
> result
> > in counter weight up) as long as the target is within East limits even when the pier side is West?
>
> As I said previously in that thread, it is up to A-P (and in that thread Marj explicitly said "no" for now.)
>
> Best regards,
>
> -Ray Gralak
> Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-
> physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
> Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
> Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]
> > Sent: Friday, October 5, 2018 7:41 PM
> > To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Re: SGP Pier Flip and APCC
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Ray,
> >
> > Are you still considering adding a new mode to APCC that would force a pier flip to pier side East(which
can
> result
> > in counter weight up) as long as the target is within East limits even when the pier side is West?
> >
> >
> > I hope I worded that correct lol.
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Keith
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>





Ray Gralak
 

I thought TheSkyX can run on a Mac. Doesn't that meet your criteria?
http://www.bisque.com/sc/forums/p/32727/168211.aspx

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver


-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Saturday, October 6, 2018 8:46 AM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Re: SGP Pier Flip and APCC



Hi Michael,

It would be nice to have complete documentation for how to use the mount so I could get the most out of it. The
'G' protocol that is the current level of documentation is inadequate.
Over 15 years ago I wrote "PulseGuide", a C++ windows application with less documentation than is available
today. When PulseGuide
was developed the GTOCP3 was new and firmware was only "D".
This firmware didn't even have adjustable tracking rates or meridian delays but I implemented these two features
and more. I also
implemented counterweight-up parking too.

My point is that all the commands necessary for imaging/remote operations where available then. Sure there have
been many
improvements and new commands added, but most are not absolutely required for imaging.

It would also be a nice move to have documentation so an open source tool to generate
and program PEC curves could be developed.
OK, so what's stopping you *today* from starting that? Most mounts don't have direct uploads to the mount so the
most basic feature
it will need is to playback a generated curve while the mount captures the data. PEMPro was able to do that 15
years ago so there is
a precedent that it can work, even with A-P mounts.

That said, the hard part is not uploading to the mount. That's just a small fraction of the work required.

I would really like to get away from needing Windows for any part of my imaging solution and unfortunately this
is not possible with AP mounts (yet). At the moment I find that a con for using AP mounts and if there was
another high end solution offering this I'd be tempted. And no running SkyX on a Raspberry Pi is not a
solution imho.
I thought TheSkyX can run on a Mac. Doesn't that meet your criteria?

As I said previously, I think the next step might be an ASCOM implementation using .Net Core, which is cross-
platform compatible
between Windows, Mac OS, and LINUX.

What's cool about .Net Core 3.x is that it will support WinForms and WPF applications. Thus, apps like APCC,
PEMPro, SGPro,
CCDAutoPilot, etc., could be modified to run on LINUX/Mac OS.

Best regards,

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-
physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver

-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Saturday, October 6, 2018 7:37 AM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: SGP Pier Flip and APCC



I find the current 'experimental' AP driver in INDI does everything I need to take a night after night of usable
data.
So I've considered it "good enough' for awhile now. I got it to the point it has what I needed - which was
primarily
pulse guiding and meridian delay. I pretty much keep an eye on my scope while imaging so I haven't had a need
for anything fancier.

And honestly without an updated protocol document I really don't feel invested to keep spending time on the
driver
as there isn't much more it can do otherwise.

I think any enthusiastic hobbyist who enjoys astronomy and computing would be successful using INDI and
Linux.
I've had alot of fun being able to modify the behavior of various components of my imaging software stack to act
as I want it to and add features I need, etc. To me the computing side of imaging is as much part of the hobby
as
the astronomy side so this project really hits all the right spots.

For someone wanting a push button remote system that streams frames to their home it is probably not the best
solution. I know people and universities use it this way but it takes a level of technical competence to get it
going
some people might just rather not need to develop.

It would be nice to have complete documentation for how to use the mount so I could get the most out of it. The
'G' protocol that is the current level of documentation is inadequate. It would also be a nice move to have
documentation so an open source tool to generate and program PEC curves could be developed. I would really
like to get away from needing Windows for any part of my imaging solution and unfortunately this is not possible
with AP mounts (yet). At the moment I find that a con for using AP mounts and if there was another high end
solution offering this I'd be tempted. And no running SkyX on a Raspberry Pi is not a solution imho.

Certainly better INDI support is not necessary for most users and their use cases, but I don't see this as a zero
sum game since volunteers out there would provide the majority of the heavy lifting for these open source
efforts.
Really just needs documentation so people can understand how the hardware they own works.

Michael Fulbright


On 10/6/2018 5:17 AM, Bill Long bill@outlook.com [ap-gto] wrote:






Could use the open source model of testing, have the users that want it, test it.




Even MS does this. :)



________________________________

From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> <mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> on
behalf of 'Ray Gralak (Groups)' groups3@gralak.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> <mailto:ap-
gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2018 10:15 PM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Re: SGP Pier Flip and APCC



Hi Bill,

On this "Yes" vs "No" trend, has AP even thought about real INDI support?
You'll need to ask Howard or Marj for an update on the protocol document.

Half the work has already been done by Mike. Taking it to the finish line cant be that hard.
Nothing against Mike here, because he wouldn't know this without the updated document that Howard is
producing, but it looks like
the INDI driver probably needs a lot more work to support the different firmware variations. And a lot of
testing...

Best regards,

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-
physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver

-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2018 9:41 PM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: SGP Pier Flip and APCC



On this "Yes" vs "No" trend, has AP even thought about real INDI support? Half the work has already
been done
by Mike. Taking it to the finish line cant be that hard.



________________________________

From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> <mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> on
behalf of 'Ray Gralak (Groups)'
groups3@gralak.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> <mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2018 9:34 PM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Re: SGP Pier Flip and APCC



Hi Keith,

Are you still considering adding a new mode to APCC that would force a pier flip to pier side East(which
can
result
in counter weight up) as long as the target is within East limits even when the pier side is West?
As I said previously in that thread, it is up to A-P (and in that thread Marj explicitly said "no" for now.)

Best regards,

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-
physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver

-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2018 7:41 PM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Re: SGP Pier Flip and APCC



Hi Ray,

Are you still considering adding a new mode to APCC that would force a pier flip to pier side East(which
can
result
in counter weight up) as long as the target is within East limits even when the pier side is West?


I hope I worded that correct lol.


Thanks,
Keith