M101


Roland Christen
 

https://www.astromart.com/common/image_popup.asp?image=/images/forums/833000-833999/833698.jpg&caption=

This large galaxy has a huge brightness range, which makes it a challenge to process. I once saw a Palomar glass plate of this object which showed the huge range quite well, because negative film has a non-linear response at the very bright end.
I posted this shot that I did last night as a negative. It shows the very faint extensions better than a normal image. It also brings back memories of the old film days before CCDs. Note the numerous tiny background galaxies.

AP 17" F8 Astrograph
STL11K camera
AP1600 mount
40 x 5 minute Luminance

Rolando


Gregg <ruppelgl@...>
 

Nice one Roland!  I really like inverted monochrome images to reveal detail.  Thanks for sharing.

Gregg

Visit my astronomy & astrophotography site

On Jun 3, 2017, at 3:06 PM, chris1011@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...> wrote:

 

https://www.astromart.com/common/image_popup.asp?image=/images/forums/833000-833999/833698.jpg&caption=

This large galaxy has a huge brightness range, which makes it a challenge to process. I once saw a Palomar glass plate of this object which showed the huge range quite well, because negative film has a non-linear response at the very bright end.
I posted this shot that I did last night as a negative. It shows the very faint extensions better than a normal image. It also brings back memories of the old film days before CCDs. Note the numerous tiny background galaxies.

AP 17" F8 Astrograph
STL11K camera
AP1600 mount
40 x 5 minute Luminance

Rolando


Philip Perkins <ppml5@...>
 

Probably the integrated autoguider of the STL-11K, ? - it works very well

I admire the precision of this image - the lack of artefacts in the outer field. I battled with these things in my (inferior) image of the same object:;
http://www.astrocruise.com/galaxies/m101_1003.htm

But... it was taken with the heavyweight RCOS 12.5" sitting atop my AP900 GTO on portable pier from southern France. PEC? - completely untrained - you simply don't need it when autoguiding with a quality AP mount. APCC?? - nowhere in sight, never installed, never needing the additional layer of error-prone complexities and gizmos. Just Hand Controller and AP mount. Just AP quality is all that's needed.
Philip
---

Very detailed!
What are you using for guiding at 3400mm focal length?
Bob
Philip Perkins
<ppml5@...>
Wiltshire UK & Luberon France
www.astrocruise.com
--


Ray Gralak
 

nowhere in sight, never installed, never needing the additional layer of
error-prone complexities
and gizmos. Just Hand Controller and AP mount. Just AP quality is all
that's needed.

And I bet you didn't processed that image on a flip-phone, right? :-)

There is a recent story about Illinois state law makers voting to get rid of
all the land lines in their state. However, many older people oppose that
law because they say they don't want the complexity of new technology. That
kind of reminds me of your statements.

Like land lines, A-P mounts work extremely well, but I believe it's a
mistake to think what you describe is all that users want or need. I think
that to remain relevant, A-P electronics, firmware, and software must move
forward (as they have been) because, among other things, other mount
manufacturers have been moving forward too.

Best regards,

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center):
http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/ap
cc
Author of PEMPro: http://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: http://www.gralak.com/apdriver
Author of PulseGuide: http://www.pulseguide.com
Author of Sigma: http://www.gralak.com/sigma


-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
Sent: Saturday, June 3, 2017 7:29 PM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: M101



Probably the integrated autoguider of the STL-11K, ? - it works very well

I admire the precision of this image - the lack of artefacts in the outer
field. I battled
with these things in my (inferior) image of the same object:;
http://www.astrocruise.com/galaxies/m101_1003.htm

But... it was taken with the heavyweight RCOS 12.5" sitting atop my AP900
GTO on
portable pier from southern France. PEC? - completely untrained - you
simply don't
need it when autoguiding with a quality AP mount. APCC?? - nowhere in
sight, never
installed, never needing the additional layer of error-prone complexities
and gizmos.
Just Hand Controller and AP mount. Just AP quality is all that's needed.
Philip
---

Very detailed!
What are you using for guiding at 3400mm focal length?
Bob
Philip Perkins
<ppml5@...>
Wiltshire UK & Luberon France
www.astrocruise.com
--




Christopher Erickson
 

Agreed.

No company can continue to make payroll based on past success. Just ask (if
you could) Kodak, Nortel, Visicorp, Lotus Corp, Delphi, Wordperfect Corp,
Novell, MCI Worldcom, TWA, Texaco, DeLorean...

Move, adapt or die.


-Christopher Erickson
Observatory engineer
Waikoloa, HI 96738
www.summitkinetics.com

-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
Sent: Sunday, June 4, 2017 12:25 AM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Re: M101

nowhere in sight, never installed, never needing the additional layer
of
error-prone complexities
and gizmos. Just Hand Controller and AP mount. Just AP quality is all
that's needed.

And I bet you didn't processed that image on a flip-phone, right? :-)

There is a recent story about Illinois state law makers voting to get rid of
all the land lines in their state. However, many older people oppose that
law because they say they don't want the complexity of new technology. That
kind of reminds me of your statements.

Like land lines, A-P mounts work extremely well, but I believe it's a
mistake to think what you describe is all that users want or need. I think
that to remain relevant, A-P electronics, firmware, and software must move
forward (as they have been) because, among other things, other mount
manufacturers have been moving forward too.

Best regards,

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center):
http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/ap
cc
Author of PEMPro: http://www.ccdware.com Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM
Driver: http://www.gralak.com/apdriver Author of PulseGuide:
http://www.pulseguide.com Author of Sigma: http://www.gralak.com/sigma


-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
Sent: Saturday, June 3, 2017 7:29 PM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: M101



Probably the integrated autoguider of the STL-11K, ? - it works very well

I admire the precision of this image - the lack of artefacts in the outer
field. I battled
with these things in my (inferior) image of the same object:;
http://www.astrocruise.com/galaxies/m101_1003.htm

But... it was taken with the heavyweight RCOS 12.5" sitting atop my AP900
GTO on
portable pier from southern France. PEC? - completely untrained - you
simply don't
need it when autoguiding with a quality AP mount. APCC?? - nowhere in
sight, never
installed, never needing the additional layer of error-prone complexities
and gizmos.
Just Hand Controller and AP mount. Just AP quality is all that's needed.
Philip
---

Very detailed!
What are you using for guiding at 3400mm focal length?
Bob
Philip Perkins
<ppml5@...>
Wiltshire UK & Luberon France
www.astrocruise.com
--





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------------------------------------

To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list
see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gto
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---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
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Philip Perkins <ppml5@...>
 

Agreed entirely! And I have some of the very latest technology in photography, video processing, and aerial photography. My comment has been unfairly turned into a rejection of new technology. Whereas the opposite is true - people around here think of me as a 'techno freak' - always into the latest stuff.

The correct interpretation of this is that it's painful to see hundreds of people tying themselves in knots and wasting enormous amounts of time with software that they don't even realise they don't need. They don't realise there's another way: just the handcontroller and the AP mount will do a superb job. It works because it is an absolutely superb mount and simply doesn't need the plethora of fix-ups (unless you want to get into very high-end imaging, and even then you may not see any difference in results). It's much simpler, doesn't tie you in knots, and doesn't waste time. The caveat is that you need to be out under the stars. But I can think of nowhere I'd rather be than under the wondrous stars.

Philip
-----

At 04:44 04/06/2017, you wrote:
Agreed.

No company can continue to make payroll based on past success. Just ask (if
you could) Kodak, Nortel, Visicorp, Lotus Corp, Delphi, Wordperfect Corp,
Novell, MCI Worldcom, TWA, Texaco, DeLorean...

Move, adapt or die.


-Christopher Erickson
Observatory engineer
Waikoloa, HI 96738
www.summitkinetics.com

Philip Perkins
<ppml5@...>
Wiltshire UK & Luberon France
www.astrocruise.com
--


Ray Gralak
 

Agreed entirely! And I have some of the very latest technology in
photography, video
processing, and aerial photography. My comment has been unfairly turned
into a
rejection of new technology. Whereas the opposite is true - people around
here think
of me as a 'techno freak' - always into the latest stuff.
Well, I am sorry if I misinterpreted what you wrote, but I still think that
your comments suggest that you are *not* into the latest astronomy
equipment/methods.

In fact, I think you are providing only armchair commentary, as you have
claimed that you don't actually use any of the latest A-P hardware and
software.

want to get into very high-end imaging, and even then you may not see any
difference in results). It's much simpler, doesn't tie you in knots, and
doesn't waste
time. The caveat is that you need to be out under the stars. But I can
think of
nowhere I'd rather be than under the wondrous stars.
Staying up, babysitting a mount might be considered "wasting time" to many
today. It's been often used as an argument that people want to be under the
stars. That's true, some do, but I think most would rather have a good night
sleep before work the next morning. The "complex software" that you seem to
be rejecting helps people do that.

You wrote earlier:
Just Hand Controller and AP mount. Just AP quality is all that's needed.
I think this statement is misleading. You can't create your M101 image, for
example, with just the hand controller and A-P mount. In your case, you
needed software to capture the sub frames and process the images, thus a
computer was connected to the mount. And then later, you had to process the
data on a computer.

I think most experienced imagers would consider that using a high-end mount,
scope, and camera is the easier part of creating a great astro-image. Your
link says you used a list of programs to combine individual frames and
eventually process them in Photoshop. I have worked with every one of those
programs, and also more modern applications that you didn't use. I believe
that as a whole processing an image, and getting optimum results, has a much
higher learning curve than most mount and astronomy software, including APCC
and the AP V2 driver.

want to get into very high-end imaging, and even then you may not see any
difference in results).
If you add software that allows better application connectivity (AP V2
driver) and one that produces better tracking and pointing accuracy (APCC
Pro), as well as safety features (APCC Standard/Pro), and logging in case
something goes wrong, then most users can leave the mount unattended and get
a good night sleep.

But to be fair, can unexpected things happen when using software? Yes,
sometimes, but most of the time people are getting better results with
software than without. Many of the NASA APODs, for instance, were created
from data collected remotely on setups using automation software. Automation
has been around for decades in almost every industry. There is no reason to
fear it.

Best regards,

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center):
http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/ap
cc
Author of PEMPro: http://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: http://www.gralak.com/apdriver
Author of PulseGuide: http://www.pulseguide.com
Author of Sigma: http://www.gralak.com/sigma


-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
Sent: Sunday, June 4, 2017 7:10 AM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Re: M101



Agreed entirely! And I have some of the very latest technology in
photography, video
processing, and aerial photography. My comment has been unfairly turned
into a
rejection of new technology. Whereas the opposite is true - people around
here think
of me as a 'techno freak' - always into the latest stuff.

The correct interpretation of this is that it's painful to see hundreds of
people tying
themselves in knots and wasting enormous amounts of time with software
that they
don't even realise they don't need. They don't realise there's another
way: just the
handcontroller and the AP mount will do a superb job. It works because it
is an
absolutely superb mount and simply doesn't need the plethora of fix-ups
(unless you
want to get into very high-end imaging, and even then you may not see any
difference in results). It's much simpler, doesn't tie you in knots, and
doesn't waste
time. The caveat is that you need to be out under the stars. But I can
think of
nowhere I'd rather be than under the wondrous stars.

Philip
-----

At 04:44 04/06/2017, you wrote:
Agreed.

No company can continue to make payroll based on past success. Just ask
(if
you could) Kodak, Nortel, Visicorp, Lotus Corp, Delphi, Wordperfect Corp,
Novell, MCI Worldcom, TWA, Texaco, DeLorean...

Move, adapt or die.


-Christopher Erickson
Observatory engineer
Waikoloa, HI 96738
www.summitkinetics.com
Philip Perkins
<ppml5@...>
Wiltshire UK & Luberon France
www.astrocruise.com
--




Steven
 

Hi Phil,

Watching queitly from the sidelines, I have to agree with you about, oh, maybe, 200%. There is always additional software to perform the basic tasks, but there's a lot of 'floss' too, and from what I've seen, is simply not value for money and in many instances wastes valuable imaging time running, causes confusion and distress, and is generally, overally demoralizing - sorry for any offence to anybody - IMHO - not specifically aimed. To each his own - despite some good qualities, a lot of us agree (off-line, too) that it's main value is for those who like to tinker with it. Stick to your guns buddy, you are quite ACCURATE and on-targert. I am a senior IT technician of over 30 years experience, technically competent, and I get paid well for my opinions. The purpose of this one is to try to alleviate the tension I see with many users of this fine AP equipment, complicated by all the add-ons that are really not so necessary, despite certain 'selling points'.

S




From: ap-gto@... on behalf of Philip Perkins ppml5@... [ap-gto]
Sent: Sunday, 4 June 2017 10:09 a.m.
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Re: M101
 
 

Agreed entirely! And I have some of the very latest technology in photography, video processing, and aerial photography. My comment has been unfairly turned into a rejection of new technology. Whereas the opposite is true - people around here think of me as a 'techno freak' - always into the latest stuff.

The correct interpretation of this is that it's painful to see hundreds of people tying themselves in knots and wasting enormous amounts of time with software that they don't even realise they don't need. They don't realise there's another way: just the handcontroller and the AP mount will do a superb job. It works because it is an absolutely superb mount and simply doesn't need the plethora of fix-ups (unless you want to get into very high-end imaging, and even then you may not see any difference in results). It's much simpler, doesn't tie you in knots, and doesn't waste time. The caveat is that you need to be out under the stars. But I can think of nowhere I'd rather be than under the wondrous stars.

Philip
-----

At 04:44 04/06/2017, you wrote:
>Agreed.
>
>No company can continue to make payroll based on past success. Just ask (if
>you could) Kodak, Nortel, Visicorp, Lotus Corp, Delphi, Wordperfect Corp,
>Novell, MCI Worldcom, TWA, Texaco, DeLorean...
>
>Move, adapt or die.
>
>
>-Christopher Erickson
>Observatory engineer
>Waikoloa, HI 96738
>www.summitkinetics.com

Philip Perkins
<ppml5@...>
Wiltshire UK & Luberon France
www.astrocruise.com
--


Jon <jmartin590@...>
 

Especially at the price.

On 6/4/2017 3:37 PM, Steven Elliott steven447@... [ap-gto] wrote:

Hi Phil,

Watching queitly from the sidelines, I have to agree with you about, oh, maybe, 200%. There is always additional software to perform the basic tasks, but there's a lot of 'floss' too, and from what I've seen, is simply not value for money and in many instances wastes valuable imaging time running, causes confusion and distress, and is generally, overally demoralizing - sorry for any offence to anybody - IMHO - not specifically aimed. To each his own - despite some good qualities, a lot of us agree (off-line, too) that it's main value is for those who like to tinker with it. Stick to your guns buddy, you are quite ACCURATE and on-targert. I am a senior IT technician of over 30 years experience, technically competent, and I get paid well for my opinions. The purpose of this one is to try to alleviate the tension I see with many users of this fine AP equipment, complicated by all the add-ons that are really not so necessary, despite certain 'selling points'.

S




From: ap-gto@... on behalf of Philip Perkins ppml5@... [ap-gto]
Sent: Sunday, 4 June 2017 10:09 a.m.
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Re: M101

Agreed entirely! And I have some of the very latest technology in photography, video processing, and aerial photography. My comment has been unfairly turned into a rejection of new technology. Whereas the opposite is true - people around here think of me as a 'techno freak' - always into the latest stuff.

The correct interpretation of this is that it's painful to see hundreds of people tying themselves in knots and wasting enormous amounts of time with software that they don't even realise they don't need. They don't realise there's another way: just the handcontroller and the AP mount will do a superb job. It works because it is an absolutely superb mount and simply doesn't need the plethora of fix-ups (unless you want to get into very high-end imaging, and even then you may not see any difference in results). It's much simpler, doesn't tie you in knots, and doesn't waste time. The caveat is that you need to be out under the stars. But I can think of nowhere I'd rather be than under the wondrous stars.

Philip
-----

At 04:44 04/06/2017, you wrote:
>Agreed.
>
>No company can continue to make payroll based on past success. Just ask (if
>you could) Kodak, Nortel, Visicorp, Lotus Corp, Delphi, Wordperfect Corp,
>Novell, MCI Worldcom, TWA, Texaco, DeLorean...
>
>Move, adapt or die.
>
>
>-Christopher Erickson
>Observatory engineer
>Waikoloa, HI 96738
>www.summitkinetics.com

Philip Perkins

Wiltshire UK & Luberon France
www.astrocruise.com
--



Ray Gralak
 

Especially at the price.
The AP V2 ASCOM driver is free. That's all that is needed to use an AP mount
with hundreds of software packages, some of which completely automate all
equipment in an observatory. That wouldn't be possible without the ASCOM
driver.

As for APCC, sure it is optional, but there are a number of safety and
performance features that make it worthwhile to those that know how to use
it.

BTW, I do not believe having an I.T. background prepares anyone for
astro-imaging. I've seen a lot of very smart people confused by mechanical
equipment and software. Put both together and it gets worse for them. Not
everyone has an immediate aptitude for this hobby.

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center):
http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/ap
cc
Author of PEMPro: http://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: http://www.gralak.com/apdriver
Author of PulseGuide: http://www.pulseguide.com
Author of Sigma: http://www.gralak.com/sigma


-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
Sent: Sunday, June 4, 2017 3:41 PM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: M101



Especially at the price.

On 6/4/2017 3:37 PM, Steven Elliott steven447@... [ap-gto] wrote:






Hi Phil,

Watching queitly from the sidelines, I have to agree with you about,
oh,
maybe, 200%. There is always additional software to perform the basic
tasks, but
there's a lot of 'floss' too, and from what I've seen, is simply not value
for money and
in many instances wastes valuable imaging time running, causes confusion
and
distress, and is generally, overally demoralizing - sorry for any offence
to anybody -
IMHO - not specifically aimed. To each his own - despite some good
qualities, a lot of
us agree (off-line, too) that it's main value is for those who like to
tinker with it. Stick to
your guns buddy, you are quite ACCURATE and on-targert. I am a senior IT
technician of over 30 years experience, technically competent, and I get
paid well for
my opinions. The purpose of this one is to try to alleviate the tension I
see with many
users of this fine AP equipment, complicated by all the add-ons that are
really not so
necessary, despite certain 'selling points'.

S




________________________________

From: ap-gto@... <ap-gto@...> <mailto:ap-
gto@...> on behalf of Philip Perkins ppml5@...
[ap-
gto] <ap-gto@...> <mailto:ap-gto@...>
Sent: Sunday, 4 June 2017 10:09 a.m.
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Re: M101



Agreed entirely! And I have some of the very latest technology in
photography,
video processing, and aerial photography. My comment has been unfairly
turned into
a rejection of new technology. Whereas the opposite is true - people
around here
think of me as a 'techno freak' - always into the latest stuff.

The correct interpretation of this is that it's painful to see
hundreds of people
tying themselves in knots and wasting enormous amounts of time with
software that
they don't even realise they don't need. They don't realise there's
another way: just
the handcontroller and the AP mount will do a superb job. It works because
it is an
absolutely superb mount and simply doesn't need the plethora of fix-ups
(unless you
want to get into very high-end imaging, and even then you may not see any
difference in results). It's much simpler, doesn't tie you in knots, and
doesn't waste
time. The caveat is that you need to be out under the stars. But I can
think of
nowhere I'd rather be than under the wondrous stars.

Philip
-----

At 04:44 04/06/2017, you wrote:
>Agreed.
>
>No company can continue to make payroll based on past success. Just
ask
(if
>you could) Kodak, Nortel, Visicorp, Lotus Corp, Delphi, Wordperfect
Corp,
>Novell, MCI Worldcom, TWA, Texaco, DeLorean...
>
>Move, adapt or die.
>
>
>-Christopher Erickson
>Observatory engineer
>Waikoloa, HI 96738
>www.summitkinetics.com

Philip Perkins
<ppml5@...> <mailto:ppml5@...>
Wiltshire UK & Luberon France
www.astrocruise.com
--







Steven
 

Ray,

An IT background solves a great number of challenges in this work, don't confuse the issue. You wrote a lot of the software, you'd know too. You're also entitled to your opinion. Sure the rest requires a simple mechnical kinowledge. So does running a bicycle. The KISS principle works wonders in the AP field.

S




From: ap-gto@... on behalf of 'Ray Gralak (Groups)' groups3@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...>
Sent: Sunday, 4 June 2017 7:37 p.m.
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Re: M101
 
 

> Especially at the price.

The AP V2 ASCOM driver is free. That's all that is needed to use an AP mount
with hundreds of software packages, some of which completely automate all
equipment in an observatory. That wouldn't be possible without the ASCOM
driver.

As for APCC, sure it is optional, but there are a number of safety and
performance features that make it worthwhile to those that know how to use
it.

BTW, I do not believe having an I.T. background prepares anyone for
astro-imaging. I've seen a lot of very smart people confused by mechanical
equipment and software. Put both together and it gets worse for them. Not
everyone has an immediate aptitude for this hobby.

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center):
http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/ap
cc
Author of PEMPro: http://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: http://www.gralak.com/apdriver
Author of PulseGuide: http://www.pulseguide.com
Author of Sigma: http://www.gralak.com/sigma

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
> Sent: Sunday, June 4, 2017 3:41 PM
> To: ap-gto@...
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: M101
>
>
>
> Especially at the price.
>
> On 6/4/2017 3:37 PM, Steven Elliott steven447@... [ap-gto] wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Phil,
>
> Watching queitly from the sidelines, I have to agree with you about,
oh,
> maybe, 200%. There is always additional software to perform the basic
tasks, but
> there's a lot of 'floss' too, and from what I've seen, is simply not value
for money and
> in many instances wastes valuable imaging time running, causes confusion
and
> distress, and is generally, overally demoralizing - sorry for any offence
to anybody -
> IMHO - not specifically aimed. To each his own - despite some good
qualities, a lot of
> us agree (off-line, too) that it's main value is for those who like to
tinker with it. Stick to
> your guns buddy, you are quite ACCURATE and on-targert. I am a senior IT
> technician of over 30 years experience, technically competent, and I get
paid well for
> my opinions. The purpose of this one is to try to alleviate the tension I
see with many
> users of this fine AP equipment, complicated by all the add-ons that are
really not so
> necessary, despite certain 'selling points'.
>
> S
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: ap-gto@... > gto@...> on behalf of Philip Perkins ppml5@...
[ap-
> gto]
> Sent: Sunday, 4 June 2017 10:09 a.m.
> To: ap-gto@...
> Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Re: M101
>
>
>
> Agreed entirely! And I have some of the very latest technology in
photography,
> video processing, and aerial photography. My comment has been unfairly
turned into
> a rejection of new technology. Whereas the opposite is true - people
around here
> think of me as a 'techno freak' - always into the latest stuff.
>
> The correct interpretation of this is that it's painful to see
hundreds of people
> tying themselves in knots and wasting enormous amounts of time with
software that
> they don't even realise they don't need. They don't realise there's
another way: just
> the handcontroller and the AP mount will do a superb job. It works because
it is an
> absolutely superb mount and simply doesn't need the plethora of fix-ups
(unless you
> want to get into very high-end imaging, and even then you may not see any
> difference in results). It's much simpler, doesn't tie you in knots, and
doesn't waste
> time. The caveat is that you need to be out under the stars. But I can
think of
> nowhere I'd rather be than under the wondrous stars.
>
> Philip
> -----
>
> At 04:44 04/06/2017, you wrote:
> >Agreed.
> >
> >No company can continue to make payroll based on past success. Just
ask
> (if
> >you could) Kodak, Nortel, Visicorp, Lotus Corp, Delphi, Wordperfect
Corp,
> >Novell, MCI Worldcom, TWA, Texaco, DeLorean...
> >
> >Move, adapt or die.
> >
> >
> >-Christopher Erickson
> >Observatory engineer
> >Waikoloa, HI 96738
> >www.summitkinetics.com
>
> Philip Perkins
>
> Wiltshire UK & Luberon France
> www.astrocruise.com
> --
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


Ray Gralak
 

Steve,

An IT background solves a great number of challenges in this work, don't
confuse the
issue. You wrote a lot of the software, you'd know too. You're also
entitled to your
opinion. Sure the rest requires a simple mechnical kinowledge. So does
running a
bicycle. The KISS principle works wonders in the AP field.
Almost all essential challenges do not require an IT background. I know a
lot of really, really good imagers who were never in IT. For that matter,
neither does having an engineering background necessarily help. The software
I wrote is used in just a tiny fraction of the entire process one might use
to create an astro-image.

Although the following list is not by any means complete, it is somewhat
typical of what an amateur would have to go through to create a quality
astro-image:

* Figuring out which telescope and camera to use to capture a particular
size target.
* Planning when the target is in the optimum position (e.g. meridian)
* Setting up a mount, including mounting a scope and camera, and connecting
a serial port cable.
* Polar aligning the mount.
* Installing software on the computer (should be done at home in advance).
* Synching to a star or plate solving.
* Configuring imaging software to collect images, bias, dark, and flat field
frames
* Configuring autoguiding
* Capturing X number of frames of LRGB, or color.
* Picking the correct stacking algorithms for stacking
* Calibrating images appropriately with bias frames, dark frames, and flat
fields
* Aligning the light images for stacking
* Stacking the light images together to produce LRGB 32-bit floating point
masters
* Combining the individual color planes to adjust color balance, contrast
and light dark points
* Down sampling the result to 16-bit/channel color in Photoshop (or other
application)
* Processing the color image in an application like PhotoShop, CCDStack, or
PixInsight.

(Many books have been written just about this last step).

KISS just doesn't apply to some of the above. You need to gain specific
knowledge, skill, and perseverance to master the above list. So, again I
think it is misleading to say that just a mount and a hand controller is all
that you need to produce a great astro-image.

Now, there are some automation software packages that can do many of the
above steps for you. You and Philip seem to want to do all the steps by
hand. There's nothing wrong with that, but some people would rather let
automation work for them.

Best regards,

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center):
http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/ap
cc
Author of PEMPro: http://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: http://www.gralak.com/apdriver
Author of PulseGuide: http://www.pulseguide.com
Author of Sigma: http://www.gralak.com/sigma


-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
Sent: Sunday, June 4, 2017 4:48 PM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: M101



Ray,

An IT background solves a great number of challenges in this work, don't
confuse the
issue. You wrote a lot of the software, you'd know too. You're also
entitled to your
opinion. Sure the rest requires a simple mechnical kinowledge. So does
running a
bicycle. The KISS principle works wonders in the AP field.

S




________________________________

From: ap-gto@... <ap-gto@...> on behalf of 'Ray
Gralak (Groups)' groups3@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...>
Sent: Sunday, 4 June 2017 7:37 p.m.
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Re: M101



Especially at the price.
The AP V2 ASCOM driver is free. That's all that is needed to use an AP
mount
with hundreds of software packages, some of which completely automate all
equipment in an observatory. That wouldn't be possible without the ASCOM
driver.

As for APCC, sure it is optional, but there are a number of safety and
performance features that make it worthwhile to those that know how to use
it.

BTW, I do not believe having an I.T. background prepares anyone for
astro-imaging. I've seen a lot of very smart people confused by mechanical
equipment and software. Put both together and it gets worse for them. Not
everyone has an immediate aptitude for this hobby.

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center):
http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/ap
cc
Author of PEMPro: http://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: http://www.gralak.com/apdriver
Author of PulseGuide: http://www.pulseguide.com
Author of Sigma: http://www.gralak.com/sigma

-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
Sent: Sunday, June 4, 2017 3:41 PM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: M101



Especially at the price.

On 6/4/2017 3:37 PM, Steven Elliott steven447@... [ap-gto]
wrote:






Hi Phil,

Watching queitly from the sidelines, I have to agree with you about,
oh,
maybe, 200%. There is always additional software to perform the basic
tasks, but
there's a lot of 'floss' too, and from what I've seen, is simply not
value
for money and
in many instances wastes valuable imaging time running, causes confusion
and
distress, and is generally, overally demoralizing - sorry for any
offence
to anybody -
IMHO - not specifically aimed. To each his own - despite some good
qualities, a lot of
us agree (off-line, too) that it's main value is for those who like to
tinker with it. Stick to
your guns buddy, you are quite ACCURATE and on-targert. I am a senior IT
technician of over 30 years experience, technically competent, and I get
paid well for
my opinions. The purpose of this one is to try to alleviate the tension
I
see with many
users of this fine AP equipment, complicated by all the add-ons that are
really not so
necessary, despite certain 'selling points'.

S




________________________________

From: ap-gto@... <ap-gto@...> <mailto:ap-
gto@...> on behalf of Philip Perkins ppml5@...
[ap-
gto] <ap-gto@...> <mailto:ap-gto@...>
Sent: Sunday, 4 June 2017 10:09 a.m.
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Re: M101



Agreed entirely! And I have some of the very latest technology in
photography,
video processing, and aerial photography. My comment has been unfairly
turned into
a rejection of new technology. Whereas the opposite is true - people
around here
think of me as a 'techno freak' - always into the latest stuff.

The correct interpretation of this is that it's painful to see
hundreds of people
tying themselves in knots and wasting enormous amounts of time with
software that
they don't even realise they don't need. They don't realise there's
another way: just
the handcontroller and the AP mount will do a superb job. It works
because
it is an
absolutely superb mount and simply doesn't need the plethora of fix-ups
(unless you
want to get into very high-end imaging, and even then you may not see
any
difference in results). It's much simpler, doesn't tie you in knots, and
doesn't waste
time. The caveat is that you need to be out under the stars. But I can
think of
nowhere I'd rather be than under the wondrous stars.

Philip
-----

At 04:44 04/06/2017, you wrote:
Agreed.

No company can continue to make payroll based on past success. Just
ask
(if
you could) Kodak, Nortel, Visicorp, Lotus Corp, Delphi, Wordperfect
Corp,
Novell, MCI Worldcom, TWA, Texaco, DeLorean...

Move, adapt or die.


-Christopher Erickson
Observatory engineer
Waikoloa, HI 96738
www.summitkinetics.com
Philip Perkins
<ppml5@...> <mailto:ppml5@...>
Wiltshire UK & Luberon France
www.astrocruise.com
--









Steven
 

You're entitled to your opinion just as well as others and/or myself. I rest my case.

S




From: ap-gto@... on behalf of 'Ray Gralak (Groups)' groups3@... [ap-gto]
Sent: Sunday, 4 June 2017 10:12 p.m.
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Re: M101
 
 

Steve,

> An IT background solves a great number of challenges in this work, don't
confuse the
> issue. You wrote a lot of the software, you'd know too. You're also
entitled to your
> opinion. Sure the rest requires a simple mechnical kinowledge. So does
running a
> bicycle. The KISS principle works wonders in the AP field.

Almost all essential challenges do not require an IT background. I know a
lot of really, really good imagers who were never in IT. For that matter,
neither does having an engineering background necessarily help. The software
I wrote is used in just a tiny fraction of the entire process one might use
to create an astro-image.

Although the following list is not by any means complete, it is somewhat
typical of what an amateur would have to go through to create a quality
astro-image:

* Figuring out which telescope and camera to use to capture a particular
size target.
* Planning when the target is in the optimum position (e.g. meridian)
* Setting up a mount, including mounting a scope and camera, and connecting
a serial port cable.
* Polar aligning the mount.
* Installing software on the computer (should be done at home in advance).
* Synching to a star or plate solving.
* Configuring imaging software to collect images, bias, dark, and flat field
frames
* Configuring autoguiding
* Capturing X number of frames of LRGB, or color.
* Picking the correct stacking algorithms for stacking
* Calibrating images appropriately with bias frames, dark frames, and flat
fields
* Aligning the light images for stacking
* Stacking the light images together to produce LRGB 32-bit floating point
masters
* Combining the individual color planes to adjust color balance, contrast
and light dark points
* Down sampling the result to 16-bit/channel color in Photoshop (or other
application)
* Processing the color image in an application like PhotoShop, CCDStack, or
PixInsight.

(Many books have been written just about this last step).

KISS just doesn't apply to some of the above. You need to gain specific
knowledge, skill, and perseverance to master the above list. So, again I
think it is misleading to say that just a mount and a hand controller is all
that you need to produce a great astro-image.

Now, there are some automation software packages that can do many of the
above steps for you. You and Philip seem to want to do all the steps by
hand. There's nothing wrong with that, but some people would rather let
automation work for them.

Best regards,

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center):
http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/ap
cc
Author of PEMPro: http://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: http://www.gralak.com/apdriver
Author of PulseGuide: http://www.pulseguide.com
Author of Sigma: http://www.gralak.com/sigma

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
> Sent: Sunday, June 4, 2017 4:48 PM
> To: ap-gto@...
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: M101
>
>
>
> Ray,
>
> An IT background solves a great number of challenges in this work, don't
confuse the
> issue. You wrote a lot of the software, you'd know too. You're also
entitled to your
> opinion. Sure the rest requires a simple mechnical kinowledge. So does
running a
> bicycle. The KISS principle works wonders in the AP field.
>
> S
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: ap-gto@... on behalf of 'Ray
> Gralak (Groups)' groups3@... [ap-gto]
> Sent: Sunday, 4 June 2017 7:37 p.m.
> To: ap-gto@...
> Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Re: M101
>
>
>
> > Especially at the price.
>
> The AP V2 ASCOM driver is free. That's all that is needed to use an AP
mount
> with hundreds of software packages, some of which completely automate all
> equipment in an observatory. That wouldn't be possible without the ASCOM
> driver.
>
> As for APCC, sure it is optional, but there are a number of safety and
> performance features that make it worthwhile to those that know how to use
> it.
>
> BTW, I do not believe having an I.T. background prepares anyone for
> astro-imaging. I've seen a lot of very smart people confused by mechanical
> equipment and software. Put both together and it gets worse for them. Not
> everyone has an immediate aptitude for this hobby.
>
> -Ray Gralak
> Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center):
>
http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/ap
> cc
> Author of PEMPro: http://www.ccdware.com
> Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: http://www.gralak.com/apdriver
> Author of PulseGuide: http://www.pulseguide.com
> Author of Sigma: http://www.gralak.com/sigma
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
> > Sent: Sunday, June 4, 2017 3:41 PM
> > To: ap-gto@...
> > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: M101
> >
> >
> >
> > Especially at the price.
> >
> > On 6/4/2017 3:37 PM, Steven Elliott steven447@... [ap-gto]
wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Phil,
> >
> > Watching queitly from the sidelines, I have to agree with you about,
> oh,
> > maybe, 200%. There is always additional software to perform the basic
> tasks, but
> > there's a lot of 'floss' too, and from what I've seen, is simply not
value
> for money and
> > in many instances wastes valuable imaging time running, causes confusion
> and
> > distress, and is generally, overally demoralizing - sorry for any
offence
> to anybody -
> > IMHO - not specifically aimed. To each his own - despite some good
> qualities, a lot of
> > us agree (off-line, too) that it's main value is for those who like to
> tinker with it. Stick to
> > your guns buddy, you are quite ACCURATE and on-targert. I am a senior IT
> > technician of over 30 years experience, technically competent, and I get
> paid well for
> > my opinions. The purpose of this one is to try to alleviate the tension
I
> see with many
> > users of this fine AP equipment, complicated by all the add-ons that are
> really not so
> > necessary, despite certain 'selling points'.
> >
> > S
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: ap-gto@... > > gto@...> on behalf of Philip Perkins ppml5@...
> [ap-
> > gto]
> > Sent: Sunday, 4 June 2017 10:09 a.m.
> > To: ap-gto@...
> > Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Re: M101
> >
> >
> >
> > Agreed entirely! And I have some of the very latest technology in
> photography,
> > video processing, and aerial photography. My comment has been unfairly
> turned into
> > a rejection of new technology. Whereas the opposite is true - people
> around here
> > think of me as a 'techno freak' - always into the latest stuff.
> >
> > The correct interpretation of this is that it's painful to see
> hundreds of people
> > tying themselves in knots and wasting enormous amounts of time with
> software that
> > they don't even realise they don't need. They don't realise there's
> another way: just
> > the handcontroller and the AP mount will do a superb job. It works
because
> it is an
> > absolutely superb mount and simply doesn't need the plethora of fix-ups
> (unless you
> > want to get into very high-end imaging, and even then you may not see
any
> > difference in results). It's much simpler, doesn't tie you in knots, and
> doesn't waste
> > time. The caveat is that you need to be out under the stars. But I can
> think of
> > nowhere I'd rather be than under the wondrous stars.
> >
> > Philip
> > -----
> >
> > At 04:44 04/06/2017, you wrote:
> > >Agreed.
> > >
> > >No company can continue to make payroll based on past success. Just
> ask
> > (if
> > >you could) Kodak, Nortel, Visicorp, Lotus Corp, Delphi, Wordperfect
> Corp,
> > >Novell, MCI Worldcom, TWA, Texaco, DeLorean...
> > >
> > >Move, adapt or die.
> > >
> > >
> > >-Christopher Erickson
> > >Observatory engineer
> > >Waikoloa, HI 96738
> > >www.summitkinetics.com
> >
> > Philip Perkins
> >
> > Wiltshire UK & Luberon France
> > www.astrocruise.com
> > --
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>


Roland Christen
 

I do both guided and unguided imaging with this scope. The 5 minute subs lend themselves to unguided. The STL11K has an internal guide chip, which works if you are not doing narrowband.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: imager1940@... [ap-gto]
To: ap-gto
Sent: Sat, Jun 3, 2017 8:55 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: M101



Very detailed!
What are you using for guiding at 3400mm focal length?
Bob
 
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
 



Roland Christen
 

Your images is beautifully processed and shows lots of tiny details. I did minimal processing so a lot of the detail is over-saturated. I'm just a bit lazy and don't take the time to get the most out of my data.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Philip Perkins ppml5@... [ap-gto]
To: ap-gto
Sent: Sat, Jun 3, 2017 9:31 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: M101

Probably the integrated autoguider of the STL-11K, ? - it works very well

I admire the precision of this image - the lack of artefacts in the outer field. I battled with these things in my (inferior) image of the same object:;
http://www.astrocruise.com/galaxies/m101_1003.htm

But... it was taken with the heavyweight RCOS 12.5" sitting atop my AP900 GTO on portable pier from southern France. PEC? - completely untrained - you simply don't need it when autoguiding with a quality AP mount. APCC?? - nowhere in sight, never installed, never needing the additional layer of error-prone complexities and gizmos. Just Hand Controller and AP mount. Just AP quality is all that's needed.
Philip
---

>Very detailed!
>What are you using for guiding at 3400mm focal length?
>Bob

Philip Perkins
<ppml5@...>
Wiltshire UK & Luberon France
www.astrocruise.com
--



------------------------------------
Posted by: Philip Perkins <ppml5@...>
------------------------------------

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To all,

 

Everyone has their own workflow and requirements when operating their mounts. We provide options so that you can chose what works best for you whether you are a visual observer or imager, whether you are sitting next to your scope under the sky or operating your scope from hundreds of miles away.

 

Take your pick from our options and enjoy!

http://www.astro-physics.com/products/mounts/control/control.htm

 

 

Clear Skies,

 

Marj Christen

Astro-Physics, Inc

11250 Forest Hills Rd

Machesney Park, IL 61115

Phone: 815-282-1513

Fax: 815-282-9847

www.astro-physics.com

 

From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2017 9:17 PM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: M101

 

 

You're entitled to your opinion just as well as others and/or myself. I rest my case.

S

 


From: ap-gto@... <ap-gto@...> on behalf of 'Ray Gralak (Groups)' groups3@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...>
Sent: Sunday, 4 June 2017 10:12 p.m.
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Re: M101

 

 

Steve,

> An IT background solves a great number of challenges in this work, don't
confuse the
> issue. You wrote a lot of the software, you'd know too. You're also
entitled to your
> opinion. Sure the rest requires a simple mechnical kinowledge. So does
running a
> bicycle. The KISS principle works wonders in the AP field.

Almost all essential challenges do not require an IT background. I know a
lot of really, really good imagers who were never in IT. For that matter,
neither does having an engineering background necessarily help. The software
I wrote is used in just a tiny fraction of the entire process one might use
to create an astro-image.

Although the following list is not by any means complete, it is somewhat
typical of what an amateur would have to go through to create a quality
astro-image:

* Figuring out which telescope and camera to use to capture a particular
size target.
* Planning when the target is in the optimum position (e.g. meridian)
* Setting up a mount, including mounting a scope and camera, and connecting
a serial port cable.
* Polar aligning the mount.
* Installing software on the computer (should be done at home in advance).
* Synching to a star or plate solving.
* Configuring imaging software to collect images, bias, dark, and flat field
frames
* Configuring autoguiding
* Capturing X number of frames of LRGB, or color.
* Picking the correct stacking algorithms for stacking
* Calibrating images appropriately with bias frames, dark frames, and flat
fields
* Aligning the light images for stacking
* Stacking the light images together to produce LRGB 32-bit floating point
masters
* Combining the individual color planes to adjust color balance, contrast
and light dark points
* Down sampling the result to 16-bit/channel color in Photoshop (or other
application)
* Processing the color image in an application like PhotoShop, CCDStack, or
PixInsight.

(Many books have been written just about this last step).

KISS just doesn't apply to some of the above. You need to gain specific
knowledge, skill, and perseverance to master the above list. So, again I
think it is misleading to say that just a mount and a hand controller is all
that you need to produce a great astro-image.

Now, there are some automation software packages that can do many of the
above steps for you. You and Philip seem to want to do all the steps by
hand. There's nothing wrong with that, but some people would rather let
automation work for them.

Best regards,

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center):
http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/ap
cc
Author of PEMPro: http://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: http://www.gralak.com/apdriver
Author of PulseGuide: http://www.pulseguide.com
Author of Sigma: http://www.gralak.com/sigma

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
> Sent: Sunday, June 4, 2017 4:48 PM
> To: ap-gto@...
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: M101
>
>
>
> Ray,
>
> An IT background solves a great number of challenges in this work, don't
confuse the
> issue. You wrote a lot of the software, you'd know too. You're also
entitled to your
> opinion. Sure the rest requires a simple mechnical kinowledge. So does
running a
> bicycle. The KISS principle works wonders in the AP field.
>
> S
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: ap-gto@... <ap-gto@...> on behalf of 'Ray
> Gralak (Groups)' groups3@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...>
> Sent: Sunday, 4 June 2017 7:37 p.m.
> To: ap-gto@...
> Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Re: M101
>
>
>
> > Especially at the price.
>
> The AP V2 ASCOM driver is free. That's all that is needed to use an AP
mount
> with hundreds of software packages, some of which completely automate all
> equipment in an observatory. That wouldn't be possible without the ASCOM
> driver.
>
> As for APCC, sure it is optional, but there are a number of safety and
> performance features that make it worthwhile to those that know how to use
> it.
>
> BTW, I do not believe having an I.T. background prepares anyone for
> astro-imaging. I've seen a lot of very smart people confused by mechanical
> equipment and software. Put both together and it gets worse for them. Not
> everyone has an immediate aptitude for this hobby.
>
> -Ray Gralak
> Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center):
>
http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/ap
> cc
> Author of PEMPro: http://www.ccdware.com
> Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: http://www.gralak.com/apdriver
> Author of PulseGuide: http://www.pulseguide.com
> Author of Sigma: http://www.gralak.com/sigma
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
> > Sent: Sunday, June 4, 2017 3:41 PM
> > To: ap-gto@...
> > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: M101
> >
> >
> >
> > Especially at the price.
> >
> > On 6/4/2017 3:37 PM, Steven Elliott steven447@... [ap-gto]
wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Phil,
> >
> > Watching queitly from the sidelines, I have to agree with you about,
> oh,
> > maybe, 200%. There is always additional software to perform the basic
> tasks, but
> > there's a lot of 'floss' too, and from what I've seen, is simply not
value
> for money and
> > in many instances wastes valuable imaging time running, causes confusion
> and
> > distress, and is generally, overally demoralizing - sorry for any
offence
> to anybody -
> > IMHO - not specifically aimed. To each his own - despite some good
> qualities, a lot of
> > us agree (off-line, too) that it's main value is for those who like to
> tinker with it. Stick to
> > your guns buddy, you are quite ACCURATE and on-targert. I am a senior IT
> > technician of over 30 years experience, technically competent, and I get
> paid well for
> > my opinions. The purpose of this one is to try to alleviate the tension
I
> see with many
> > users of this fine AP equipment, complicated by all the add-ons that are
> really not so
> > necessary, despite certain 'selling points'.
> >
> > S
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: ap-gto@... <ap-gto@...> <mailto:ap-
> > gto@...> on behalf of Philip Perkins ppml5@...
> [ap-
> > gto] <ap-gto@...> <mailto:ap-gto@...>
> > Sent: Sunday, 4 June 2017 10:09 a.m.
> > To: ap-gto@...
> > Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Re: M101
> >
> >
> >
> > Agreed entirely! And I have some of the very latest technology in
> photography,
> > video processing, and aerial photography. My comment has been unfairly
> turned into
> > a rejection of new technology. Whereas the opposite is true - people
> around here
> > think of me as a 'techno freak' - always into the latest stuff.
> >
> > The correct interpretation of this is that it's painful to see
> hundreds of people
> > tying themselves in knots and wasting enormous amounts of time with
> software that
> > they don't even realise they don't need. They don't realise there's
> another way: just
> > the handcontroller and the AP mount will do a superb job. It works
because
> it is an
> > absolutely superb mount and simply doesn't need the plethora of fix-ups
> (unless you
> > want to get into very high-end imaging, and even then you may not see
any
> > difference in results). It's much simpler, doesn't tie you in knots, and
> doesn't waste
> > time. The caveat is that you need to be out under the stars. But I can
> think of
> > nowhere I'd rather be than under the wondrous stars.
> >
> > Philip
> > -----
> >
> > At 04:44 04/06/2017, you wrote:
> > >Agreed.
> > >
> > >No company can continue to make payroll based on past success. Just
> ask
> > (if
> > >you could) Kodak, Nortel, Visicorp, Lotus Corp, Delphi, Wordperfect
> Corp,
> > >Novell, MCI Worldcom, TWA, Texaco, DeLorean...
> > >
> > >Move, adapt or die.
> > >
> > >
> > >-Christopher Erickson
> > >Observatory engineer
> > >Waikoloa, HI 96738
> > >www.summitkinetics.com
> >
> > Philip Perkins
> > <ppml5@...> <mailto:ppml5@...>
> > Wiltshire UK & Luberon France
> > www.astrocruise.com
> > --
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>


Philip Perkins <ppml5@...>
 

Hola Rolando,

The name always makes me think of Hernando's Hideaway - perhaps that could be an AP theme tune? :) Anyway, keep em coming! I mean those precision negative images with amazing faint detail...
https://www.astromart.com/common/image_popup.asp?image=/images/forums/833000-833999/833698.jpg&caption=

They're an important yardstick! And who wants to futz with colour and embellishments when there's such a wealth of detail?

(...from a very proud AP-GTO owner, even though it's 17 years old! - seems hard to believe, it just gets better with time)
Philip
---

At 15:24 05/06/2017, chris1011@... [ap-gto] wrote:
Your images is beautifully processed and shows lots of tiny details. I did minimal processing so a lot of the detail is over-saturated. I'm just a bit lazy and don't take the time to get the most out of my data.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Philip Perkins ppml5@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@...>
Sent: Sat, Jun 3, 2017 9:31 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: M101

Probably the integrated autoguider of the STL-11K, ? - it works very well

I admire the precision of this image - the lack of artefacts in the outer field. I battled with these things in my (inferior) image of the same object:;
<http://www.astrocruise.com/galaxies/m101_1003.htm>http://www.astrocruise.com/galaxies/m101_1003.htm

But... it was taken with the heavyweight RCOS 12.5" sitting atop my AP900 GTO on portable pier from southern France. PEC? - completely untrained - you simply don't need it when autoguiding with a quality AP mount. APCC?? - nowhere in sight, never installed, never needing the additional layer of error-prone complexities and gizmos. Just Hand Controller and AP mount. Just AP quality is all that's needed.
Philip
---

Very detailed!
What are you using for guiding at 3400mm focal length?
Bob
Philip Perkins
<<mailto:ppml5@...>ppml5@...>
Wiltshire UK & Luberon France
<http://www.astrocruise.com>www.astrocruise.com
--

Philip Perkins
<ppml5@...>
Wiltshire UK & Luberon France
www.astrocruise.com
--


Wayne Hixson
 

I loved that song when I was little. Just heard it again recently at a performance of Pajama Game. 


On Jun 6, 2017, at 8:34 AM, Philip Perkins ppml5@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...> wrote:

 

Hola Rolando,

The name always makes me think of Hernando's Hideaway - perhaps that could be an AP theme tune? :) Anyway, keep em coming! I mean those precision negative images with amazing faint detail...
https://www.astromart.com/common/image_popup.asp?image=/images/forums/833000-833999/833698.jpg&caption=

They're an important yardstick! And who wants to futz with colour and embellishments when there's such a wealth of detail?

(...from a very proud AP-GTO owner, even though it's 17 years old! - seems hard to believe, it just gets better with time)
Philip
---

At 15:24 05/06/2017, chris1011@... [ap-gto] wrote:
>Your images is beautifully processed and shows lots of tiny details. I did minimal processing so a lot of the detail is over-saturated. I'm just a bit lazy and don't take the time to get the most out of my data.
>
>Rolando
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Philip Perkins ppml5@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...>
>To: ap-gto <ap-gto@...>
>Sent: Sat, Jun 3, 2017 9:31 pm
>Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: M101
>
>Probably the integrated autoguider of the STL-11K, ? - it works very well
>
>I admire the precision of this image - the lack of artefacts in the outer field. I battled with these things in my (inferior) image of the same object:;
><http://www.astrocruise.com/galaxies/m101_1003.htm>http://www.astrocruise.com/galaxies/m101_1003.htm
>
>But... it was taken with the heavyweight RCOS 12.5" sitting atop my AP900 GTO on portable pier from southern France. PEC? - completely untrained - you simply don't need it when autoguiding with a quality AP mount. APCC?? - nowhere in sight, never installed, never needing the additional layer of error-prone complexities and gizmos. Just Hand Controller and AP mount. Just AP quality is all that's needed.
>Philip
>---
>
>>Very detailed!
>>What are you using for guiding at 3400mm focal length?
>>Bob
>
>Philip Perkins
><<mailto:ppml5@...>ppml5@...>
>Wiltshire UK & Luberon France
><http://www.astrocruise.com>www.astrocruise.com
>--

Philip Perkins
<ppml5@...>
Wiltshire UK & Luberon France
www.astrocruise.com
--


Roland Christen
 

Well, that's funny indeed.

Glad you are still imaging after all these years, and enjoying your equipment. I do the best i can from my rather poor location here in the middle of industrial/commercial area. Are you still going to the south of France for your imaging?

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Philip Perkins ppml5@... [ap-gto]
To: ap-gto
Sent: Tue, Jun 6, 2017 10:52 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: M101

Hola Rolando,

The name always makes me think of Hernando's Hideaway - perhaps that could be an AP theme tune? :) Anyway, keep em coming! I mean those precision negative images with amazing faint detail...
https://www.astromart.com/common/image_popup.asp?image=/images/forums/833000-833999/833698.jpg&caption=

They're an important yardstick! And who wants to futz with colour and embellishments when there's such a wealth of detail?

(...from a very proud AP-GTO owner, even though it's 17 years old! - seems hard to believe, it just gets better with time)
Philip
---

At 15:24 05/06/2017, chris1011@... [ap-gto] wrote:
>Your images is beautifully processed and shows lots of tiny details. I did minimal processing so a lot of the detail is over-saturated. I'm just a bit lazy and don't take the time to get the most out of my data.
>
>Rolando
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Philip Perkins ppml5@... [ap-gto] gto@...>
>To: ap-gto gto@...>
>Sent: Sat, Jun 3, 2017 9:31 pm
>Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: M101
>
>Probably the integrated autoguider of the STL-11K, ? - it works very well
>
>I admire the precision of this image - the lack of artefacts in the outer field. I battled with these things in my (inferior) image of the same object:;
><http://www.astrocruise.com/galaxies/m101_1003.htm>http://www.astrocruise.com/galaxies/m101_1003.htm
>
>But... it was taken with the heavyweight RCOS 12.5" sitting atop my AP900 GTO on portable pier from southern France. PEC? - completely untrained - you simply don't need it when autoguiding with a quality AP mount. APCC?? - nowhere in sight, never installed, never needing the additional layer of error-prone complexities and gizmos. Just Hand Controller and AP mount. Just AP quality is all that's needed.
>Philip
>---
>
>>Very detailed!
>>What are you using for guiding at 3400mm focal length?
>>Bob
>
>Philip Perkins
><<mailto:ppml5@...>ppml5@...>
>Wiltshire UK & Luberon France
><http://www.astrocruise.com>www.astrocruise.com
>--


Philip Perkins
<ppml5@...>
Wiltshire UK & Luberon France
www.astrocruise.com
--



------------------------------------
Posted by: Philip Perkins <ppml5@...>
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Philip Perkins <ppml5@...>
 

... unfortunately a temporary cessation of the big France trips (at least I hope it's temporary) - lumbar spinal stenosis with pinched Sciatic nerve, apparently caused by continual mounting and dismounting of the Big Beast over years. I've had an MRI scan and a follow up consultation will be in a few days. In the meantime I am trying to convince my wife that I need to take an Amazon to do the mounting and dismounting. Rather slow progress so far, and I'm worried about the potential prognosis: either I get crushed by the Amazon, or I get a divorce, or both. Life is fun, ain't it?
Philip
---

At 17:37 06/06/2017, you wrote:

Well, that's funny indeed.

Glad you are still imaging after all these years, and enjoying your equipment. I do the best i can from my rather poor location here in the middle of industrial/commercial area. Are you still going to the south of France for your imaging?

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Philip Perkins ppml5@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@...>
Sent: Tue, Jun 6, 2017 10:52 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: M101

Hola Rolando,

The name always makes me think of Hernando's Hideaway - perhaps that could be an AP theme tune? :) Anyway, keep em coming! I mean those precision negative images with amazing faint detail...
<https://www.astromart.com/common/image_popup.asp?image=/images/forums/833000-833999/833698.jpg&caption=>https://www.astromart.com/common/image_popup.asp?image=/images/forums/833000-833999/833698.jpg&caption=

They're an important yardstick! And who wants to futz with colour and embellishments when there's such a wealth of detail?

(...from a very proud AP-GTO owner, even though it's 17 years old! - seems hard to believe, it just gets better with time)
Philip
---

At 15:24 05/06/2017, <mailto:chris1011@...>chris1011@... [ap-gto] wrote:
Your images is beautifully processed and shows lots of tiny details. I did minimal processing so a lot of the detail is over-saturated. I'm just a bit lazy and don't take the time to get the most out of my data.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Philip Perkins <mailto:ppml5@...>ppml5@... [ap-gto] <ap-<mailto:gto@...>gto@...>
To: ap-gto <ap-<mailto:gto@...>gto@...>
Sent: Sat, Jun 3, 2017 9:31 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: M101

Probably the integrated autoguider of the STL-11K, ? - it works very well

I admire the precision of this image - the lack of artefacts in the outer field. I battled with these things in my (inferior) image of the same object:;
<<http://www.astrocruise.com/galaxies/m101_1003.htm>http://www.astrocruise.com/galaxies/m101_1003.htm>http://www.astrocruise.com/galaxies/m101_1003.htm>http://www.astrocruise.com/galaxies/m101_1003.htm

But... it was taken with the heavyweight RCOS 12.5" sitting atop my AP900 GTO on portable pier from southern France. PEC? - completely untrained - you simply don't need it when autoguiding with a quality AP mount. APCC?? - nowhere in sight, never installed, never needing the additional layer of error-prone complexities and gizmos. Just Hand Controller and AP mount. Just AP quality is all that's needed.
Philip
---

Very detailed!
What are you using for guiding at 3400mm focal length?
Bob
Philip Perkins
<<<mailto:ppml5@...>ppml5@...?>mailto:ppml5@...>ppml5@...>
Wiltshire UK & Luberon France
<<http://www.astrocruise.com>www.astrocruise.com>http://www.astrocruise.com>www.astrocruise.com
--

Philip Perkins
<<mailto:ppml5@...>ppml5@...>
Wiltshire UK & Luberon France
<http://www.astrocruise.com>www.astrocruise.com
--



------------------------------------
Posted by: Philip Perkins <<mailto:ppml5@...>ppml5@...>
------------------------------------

To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list
see <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gto>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gto
------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links





Philip Perkins
<ppml5@...>
Wiltshire UK & Luberon France
www.astrocruise.com
--