Guiding Issues


Bill Gardner <gardner.w@...>
 

I gave up on imaging for a couple of years in a permanent setup due to guiding issues.  Last week, I put in a fresh install on a new computer with all the updated software.  My system guided once and then returned to strange behaviour.

Mount is an AP900, guiding with a Orion StarShoot.  Software is current version of ACP, Maxim v6.02, FocusMax v4 and all ascom drivers are current.

Calibration is successful, with the proper "L" pattern no problem.  Issue arises when I begin guiding.  I have always had the guiding error displayed in pixels, so the errors begin small, but then very quickly (3-4 iterations) jump such that the guide star roams right out of the guide box and is lost.  The direction is not repeatable.  I have tried having Maxim guide through the Main Relays, the Telescope (ACP hub) and ASCOM direct.

Last night, I played with the aggressiveness setting in Maxim.  At one point setting it to zero and with that, the guiding and guide star stay put.  Increase the aggressiveness to any other setting and the behaviour returned.

Desperately looking for suggestions as to how to get back to guiding properly.

Thanks,

Bill

--
_____________

Pictor Observatory
http://www.pictorobservatory.ca


eja24601
 

This might be way off base, but I had similar issues with an AP1200, Maxim and CCDAutopilot. The counterintuitive answer was to not turn the connection to the telescope (mount) on. For CCDAutopilot at least, guiding would work if Maxim was not connected to the telescope, and it would work if Maxim was connected to the telescope but CCDAutopilot inactive.

Have you tried guiding without ACP active? IOW:

In Maxim, connect to camera and scope. Do not activate ACP.

Try guiding with that connection. If it works, bring ACP in with Maxim connected to the scope and see if the guiding issues resurface. If they do, disconnect Maxim from the telescope and see what happens.

Again, my experience is with CCDAutopilot so I could be way off target....



---In ap-gto@..., <gardner.w@...> wrote :

I gave up on imaging for a couple of years in a permanent setup due to guiding issues.  Last week, I put in a fresh install on a new computer with all the updated software.  My system guided once and then returned to strange behaviour.

Mount is an AP900, guiding with a Orion StarShoot.  Software is current version of ACP, Maxim v6.02, FocusMax v4 and all ascom drivers are current.

Calibration is successful, with the proper "L" pattern no problem.  Issue arises when I begin guiding.  I have always had the guiding error displayed in pixels, so the errors begin small, but then very quickly (3-4 iterations) jump such that the guide star roams right out of the guide box and is lost.  The direction is not repeatable.  I have tried having Maxim guide through the Main Relays, the Telescope (ACP hub) and ASCOM direct.

Last night, I played with the aggressiveness setting in Maxim.  At one point setting it to zero and with that, the guiding and guide star stay put.  Increase the aggressiveness to any other setting and the behaviour returned.

Desperately looking for suggestions as to how to get back to guiding properly.

Thanks,

Bill

--
_____________

Pictor Observatory
http://www.pictorobservatory.ca


Roland Christen
 

You most likely have Pier Flip checked. This causes the guide star to go opposite to that required and will indeed cause the guide star to quickly move out of the guider box. It is a common mistake that can happen to anyone.
 
Pier Flip should only be checked if you calibrate on one side of the mount and then image on the other side after flipping the scope side.
 
Rolando
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Gardner gardner.w@... [ap-gto]
To: MaxImDL ; ap-gto
Sent: Tue, Sep 20, 2016 7:23 am
Subject: [ap-gto] Guiding Issues



I gave up on imaging for a couple of years in a permanent setup due to guiding issues.  Last week, I put in a fresh install on a new computer with all the updated software.  My system guided once and then returned to strange behaviour.

Mount is an AP900, guiding with a Orion StarShoot.  Software is current version of ACP, Maxim v6.02, FocusMax v4 and all ascom drivers are current.

Calibration is successful, with the proper "L" pattern no problem.  Issue arises when I begin guiding.  I have always had the guiding error displayed in pixels, so the errors begin small, but then very quickly (3-4 iterations) jump such that the guide star roams right out of the guide box and is lost.  The direction is not repeatable.  I have tried having Maxim guide through the Main Relays, the Telescope (ACP hub) and ASCOM direct.

Last night, I played with the aggressiveness setting in Maxim.  At one point setting it to zero and with that, the guiding and guide star stay put.  Increase the aggressiveness to any other setting and the behaviour returned.

Desperately looking for suggestions as to how to get back to guiding properly.

Thanks,

Bill

--
_____________

Pictor Observatory
http://www.pictorobservatory.ca



vergolder
 

Hi all,


i had and still have the same troubles with guiding like Bill described it. I use Sky X and the Camera Add on for controlling the CCD and the Lodestar guider.

I use a 12" f/4 Newt and a OAG for the Lodestar. I use a AP1200 mount with CP3 System.

I calibrate the X and Y axis for 2 sec. I always get the message "Calibration Successful". The guiding rate is on 1, like i used it with Maxim DL.


As i start guiding, everthing runs fine (correction 0,00- 0,30 Pixels in X and Y) but after a few minutes the guiding goes to 3 Pixels or more....and the guide star is lost.

I disconnected the CCD and the Guider from Sky X and i checked the guiding with Maxim DL, everthing runs perfect...over hours.


I also changed the aggressiveness in Sky X but i always get the same Troubles. So i changed from guiding rate 1 to 0,5....i get the same troubles. I also changed the aggressiveness but the troubles are still there.


I use the Ascom Astro Physics V2 Driver for controlling the mount, all drivers are current.


Any ideas????


Kind regards,


Wolfgang







Don Anderson
 

Wolfgang
Your calibration time at 2 sec is too short. Try 10 sec.
 
Don Anderson



From: "vergoldermeister@... [ap-gto]" To: ap-gto@...
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2016 2:22 PM
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Guiding Issues

 
Hi all,

i had and still have the same troubles with guiding like Bill described it. I use Sky X and the Camera Add on for controlling the CCD and the Lodestar guider.
I use a 12" f/4 Newt and a OAG for the Lodestar. I use a AP1200 mount with CP3 System.
I calibrate the X and Y axis for 2 sec. I always get the message "Calibration Successful". The guiding rate is on 1, like i used it with Maxim DL.

As i start guiding, everthing runs fine (correction 0,00- 0,30 Pixels in X and Y) but after a few minutes the guiding goes to 3 Pixels or more....and the guide star is lost.
I disconnected the CCD and the Guider from Sky X and i checked the guiding with Maxim DL, everthing runs perfect...over hours.

I also changed the aggressiveness in Sky X but i always get the same Troubles. So i changed from guiding rate 1 to 0,5....i get the same troubles. I also changed the aggressiveness but the troubles are still there.

I use the Ascom Astro Physics V2 Driver for controlling the mount, all drivers are current.

Any ideas????

Kind regards,

Wolfgang








Stuart
 

Wolfgang (and Bill), I agree with Don, the calibration time is too short. 

BUT, as Rolando already pointed out, one reason you'll have the symptom you both describe is if you have the "Reverse X on Flip" set incorrectly. In TSX this checkbox often disappears from view in the set-up for the guider (you have to scroll down to find it) AND this same check box exists on the camera tab in Set-up. Crazy confusing. I don't think it is correct to have them both checked. Just check the one on the guider tab.

Anyway, if things seem okay for a few seconds then the star drives out of the box, I am betting that Rolando's comment is what is going on. You're guiding fine but the control software has X reversed so as things start to go badly, the reaction is to double down on doing the wrong thing and the star speeds out of the box.

Stuart

On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 4:22 PM, vergoldermeister@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...> wrote:
 

Hi all,


i had and still have the same troubles with guiding like Bill described it. I use Sky X and the Camera Add on for controlling the CCD and the Lodestar guider.

I use a 12" f/4 Newt and a OAG for the Lodestar. I use a AP1200 mount with CP3 System.

I calibrate the X and Y axis for 2 sec. I always get the message "Calibration Successful". The guiding rate is on 1, like i used it with Maxim DL.


As i start guiding, everthing runs fine (correction 0,00- 0,30 Pixels in X and Y) but after a few minutes the guiding goes to 3 Pixels or more....and the guide star is lost.

I disconnected the CCD and the Guider from Sky X and i checked the guiding with Maxim DL, everthing runs perfect...over hours.


I also changed the aggressiveness in Sky X but i always get the same Troubles. So i changed from guiding rate 1 to 0,5....i get the same troubles. I also changed the aggressiveness but the troubles are still there.


I use the Ascom Astro Physics V2 Driver for controlling the mount, all drivers are current.


Any ideas????


Kind regards,


Wolfgang










Roland Christen
 

 
1) Calibration of only 2 seconds is way too short. Calibration must be done for at least 10 seconds to be accurate.
 
2) Either your X or your Y axis is reversed, most probably because you have the Pier Flip checked.
 
a) Uncheck the Pier Flip.
b) Aim the scope towards the celestial equator near the meridian.
c) Do a 10 second calibration run.
d) Check the parameter numbers and make sure that they are accurate! This last thing is very important, please note. Do not skip this task because these numbers dictate to the guide software how much error compensation must be sent to the mount for any given pixel error. Example: if your guider pixel scale is 1 arc second per pixel, then those parameter numbers will both be 15. If the scale is 2 arc sec per pixel, they will be 7.5. Any deviation from this indicates a faulty calibration run, and of course you will not succeed in guiding your scope properly.
 
These are the bare basics of what you must do and must understand in order to make any mount work.
 
Roland Christen, Astro-Physics
Aka Rolando
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: vergoldermeister@... [ap-gto]
To: ap-gto
Sent: Tue, Sep 20, 2016 3:23 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Guiding Issues
Hi all,
 
i had and still have the same troubles with guiding like Bill described it. I use Sky X and the Camera Add on for controlling the CCD and the Lodestar guider.
I use a 12" f/4 Newt and a OAG for the Lodestar. I use a AP1200 mount with CP3 System.
I calibrate the X and Y axis for 2 sec. I always get the message "Calibration Successful". The guiding rate is on 1, like i used it with Maxim DL.
As i start guiding, everthing runs fine (correction 0,00- 0,30 Pixels in X and Y) but after a few minutes the guiding goes to 3 Pixels or more....and the guide star is lost.
I disconnected the CCD and the Guider from Sky X and i checked the guiding with Maxim DL, everthing runs perfect...over hours.
I also changed the aggressiveness in Sky X but i always get the same Troubles. So i changed from guiding rate 1 to 0,5....i get the same troubles. I also changed the aggressiveness but the troubles ar e still there.
I use the Ascom Astro Physics V2 Driver for controlling the mount, all drivers are current.
Any ideas????

Kind regards,

Wolfgang








Roland Christen
 

You're guiding fine but the control software has X reversed so as things start to go badly, the reaction is to double down on doing the wrong thing and the star speeds out of the box.
 
Yes, this sort of thing has happened to me a few times, causing some head scratching.
 
Rolando
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Stuart Heggie stuart.j.heggie@... [ap-gto]
To: ap-gto
Sent: Tue, Sep 20, 2016 4:08 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: Guiding Issues



Wolfgang (and Bill), I agree with Don, the calibration time is too short. 

BUT, as Rolando already pointed out, one reason you'll have the symptom you both describe is if you have the "Reverse X on Flip" set incorrectly. In TSX this checkbox often disappears from view in the set-up for the guider (you have to scroll down to find it) AND this same check box exists on the camera tab in Set-up. Crazy confusing. I don't think it is correct to have them both checked. Just check the one on the guider tab.

Anyway, if things seem okay for a few seconds then the star drives out of the box, I am betting that Rolando's comment is what is going on. You're guiding fine but the control software has X reversed so as things start to go badly, the reaction is to double down on doing the wrong thing and the star speeds out of the box.

Stuart

On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 4:22 PM, vergoldermeister@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...> wrote:
 
Hi all,

i had and still have the same troubles with guiding like Bill described it. I use Sky X and the Camera Add on for controlling the CCD and the Lodestar guider.
I use a 12" f/4 Newt and a OAG for the Lodestar. I use a AP1200 mount with CP3 System.
I calibrate the X and Y axis for 2 sec. I always get the message "Calibration Successful". The guiding rate is on 1, like i used it with Maxim DL.

As i start guiding, everthing runs fine (correction 0,00- 0,30 Pixels in X and Y) but after a few minutes the guiding goes to 3 Pixels or more....and the guide star is lost.
I disconnected the CCD and the Guider from Sky X and i checked the guiding with Maxim DL, everthing runs perfect...over hours.

I also changed the aggressiveness in Sky X but i always get the same Troubles. So i changed from guiding rate 1 to 0,5....i get the same troubles. I also changed the aggressiveness but the troubles are still there.

I use the Ascom Astro Physics V2 Driver for controlling the mount, all drivers are current.

Any ideas????

Kind regards,

Wolfgang








--



R Edelson
 

This might sound a bit simplistic but I fixed this problem by switching to PHD guiding.

Richard 



Steve Reilly
 

But the problem is now you don’t know what caused it in the first place. Could have been a simple setting. Considering the number of people who successfully guide it isn’t likely the software, maybe a software setting though. It’s always good to know and some just can’t switch software if they continue with the rest of their software regiment.

 

Just Saying,

 

Steve

 

 

From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2016 8:56 AM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Guiding Issues

 

 

This might sound a bit simplistic but I fixed this problem by switching to PHD guiding.

 

Richard 

 


vergolder
 

Hi all,


many, many thanks for your help!!!!


I checked the settings via Teamviewer in my observatory.

In the main window for the Autoguider "Reverse X" was unchecked. In the Camera Setup for the Lodestar guider "Auto-reverse X for GEMs" was unchecked.


In the Camera Setup for the CCD cam "Auto-reverse X for GEMs" was checked. I unchecked it now.


Should i check  "Reverse X" in the settings for the guider?


Kind regards,


Wolfgang




Roland Christen
 

None of that applies.
What guiding software are you using?
 
Roland Christen
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: vergoldermeister@... [ap-gto]
To: ap-gto
Sent: Wed, Sep 21, 2016 3:58 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: Guiding Issues



Hi all,

many, many thanks for your help!!!!

I checked the settings via Teamviewer in my observatory.
In the main window for the Autoguider "Reverse X" was unchecked. In the Camera Setup for the Lodestar guider "Auto-reverse X for GEMs" was unchecked.

In the Camera Setup for the CCD cam "Auto-reverse X for GEMs" was checked. I unchecked it now.

Should i check  "Reverse X" in the settings for the guider?

Kind regards,

Wolfgang





Stuart
 

i sense he is using TSX.

stuart

On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 6:33 PM, chris1011@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...> wrote:
 

None of that applies.
What guiding software are you using?
 
Roland Christen
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: vergoldermeister@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@...>
Sent: Wed, Sep 21, 2016 3:58 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: Guiding Issues



Hi all,

many, many thanks for your help!!!!

I checked the settings via Teamviewer in my observatory.
In the main window for the Autoguider "Reverse X" was unchecked. In the Camera Setup for the Lodestar guider "Auto-reverse X for GEMs" was unchecked.

In the Camera Setup for the CCD cam "Auto-reverse X for GEMs" was checked. I unchecked it now.

Should i check  "Reverse X" in the settings for the guider?

Kind regards,

Wolfgang








Roland Christen
 

There is an autoguider program in TSX? I'm not familiar with that. Perhaps he would need to get advice from TSX users?
 
Rolando
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Stuart Heggie stuart.j.heggie@... [ap-gto]
To: ap-gto
Sent: Wed, Sep 21, 2016 6:08 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: Guiding Issues



i sense he is using TSX.

stuart

On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 6:33 PM, chris1011@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...> wrote:
 
None of that applies.
What guiding software are you using?
 
Roland Christen
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: vergoldermeister@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@...>
Sent: Wed, Sep 21, 2016 3:58 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: Guiding Issues



Hi all,

many, many thanks for your help!!!!

I checked the settings via Teamviewer in my observatory.
In the main window for the Autoguider "Reverse X" was unchecked. In the Camera Setup for the Lodestar guider "Auto-reverse X for GEMs" was unchecked.

In the Camera Setup for the CCD cam "Auto-reverse X for GEMs" was checked. I unchecked it now.

Should i check  "Reverse X" in the settings for the guider?

Kind regards,

Wolfgang







--



Stuart
 

I agree. I think the forums at SB would help him. I use TSX with my "other" mount. In that instance, I have "Auto Reverse X on GEM" unchecked in the Camera tab and checked on the Autoguider tab. Works fine.

I did use TSX with my AP900GTO for a while and had this same problem which is why I think the problem lies in this area. Check the box ONLY on the Autoguider tab and I "think" it will work fine. 

Stuart

On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 7:26 PM, chris1011@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...> wrote:
 

There is an autoguider program in TSX? I'm not familiar with that. Perhaps he would need to get advice from TSX users?
 
Rolando
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Stuart Heggie stuart.j.heggie@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@...>
Sent: Wed, Sep 21, 2016 6:08 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: Guiding Issues



i sense he is using TSX.

stuart

On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 6:33 PM, chris1011@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...> wrote:
 
None of that applies.
What guiding software are you using?
 
Roland Christen
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: vergoldermeister@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@...>
Sent: Wed, Sep 21, 2016 3:58 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: Guiding Issues



Hi all,

many, many thanks for your help!!!!

I checked the settings via Teamviewer in my observatory.
In the main window for the Autoguider "Reverse X" was unchecked. In the Camera Setup for the Lodestar guider "Auto-reverse X for GEMs" was unchecked.

In the Camera Setup for the CCD cam "Auto-reverse X for GEMs" was checked. I unchecked it now.

Should i check  "Reverse X" in the settings for the guider?

Kind regards,

Wolfgang







--






vergolder
 

Hi Stuart,


i checked the SB Forum and i found a post, where they describe it like you described it in your post...."Auto Reverse X on GEM" unchecked in the Camera tab and checked on the Autoguider tab. I will check this tonight...weather becomes fine.


I use The Sky X and the Camera Add on.


Kind regards,


Wolfgang


Stuart
 

Good to know Wolfgang - good luck!

Stuart

On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 12:04 PM, vergoldermeister@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...> wrote:
 

Hi Stuart,


i checked the SB Forum and i found a post, where they describe it like you described it in your post...."Auto Reverse X on GEM" unchecked in the Camera tab and checked on the Autoguider tab. I will check this tonight...weather becomes fine.


I use The Sky X and the Camera Add on.


Kind regards,


Wolfgang





Antoine PAVLIN
 

I use TSX with Camera Add-On to image with my Mach1GTO.

I have « Auto Reverse X on G » checked on both Camera Setup and Autoguide Setup. This allows TSX to automatically reverse autoguide RA corrections after a meridian flip.

I quote Daniel Bisque :
« Daniel R. Bisque:
• By default, the Auto-Reverse X for GEMs checkbox is turned on for both the Imager and the Guider.  When the Auto-Reverse X for GEMs checkbox is turned on, TheSkyX automatically reverses the X direction during guiding based on the OTA side of the pier and the original calibration.
• If the Auto-Reverse X for GEMs checkbox is turned off, TheSkyX no longer automatically reverses the X direction; this responsibility is left to the user.  Turn on the Reverse X checkbox to do so when necessary.
Best practice: turn on the Auto-Reverse X for GEMs checkbox.
There are two checkboxes because you can choose to image or autoguide using any of the sensors attached to Camera or Autoguider.

Clear skies

Antoine



De : Stuart Heggie stuart.j.heggie@... [ap-gto]

---
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https://www.avast.com/antivirus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Stuart
 

Antoine, thanks for that note. I wonder then if all that really matters is that you have the box checked for the camera doing the guiding. Checking both maybe doesn't hurt but you must have it checked for the device assigned as "autoguider".

My memory of the problem I had with TSX and my AP900GTO is fuzzy. I had a strange thing happen when reconnecting my STL11000 after service. TSX lost all of my preset parameters. Then the '-' sign went missing on my timezone offset which put me in India. Weirdly close to Lucknow India as it happens. Guess where I live. Lucknow ONTARIO CANADA. OMG - what a confusing thing to happen. So, part of my problem was the checkbox got unchecked on the autoguider tab but also TSX thought I was in India according to the timezone offset but for some reason it is happy to accept your RA and Dec so it displayed the local sky correctly for the time of day.

Stuart

On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 6:19 PM, antoine.pavlin@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...> wrote:
 

I use TSX with Camera Add-On to image with my Mach1GTO.

I have « Auto Reverse X on G » checked on both Camera Setup and Autoguide Setup. This allows TSX to automatically reverse autoguide RA corrections after a meridian flip.

I quote Daniel Bisque :
« Daniel R. Bisque:
• By default, the Auto-Reverse X for GEMs checkbox is turned on for both the Imager and the Guider.  When the Auto-Reverse X for GEMs checkbox is turned on, TheSkyX automatically reverses the X direction during guiding based on the OTA side of the pier and the original calibration.
• If the Auto-Reverse X for GEMs checkbox is turned off, TheSkyX no longer automatically reverses the X direction; this responsibility is left to the user.  Turn on the Reverse X checkbox to do so when necessary.
Best practice: turn on the Auto-Reverse X for GEMs checkbox.
There are two checkboxes because you can choose to image or autoguide using any of the sensors attached to Camera or Autoguider.

Clear skies

Antoine

De : Stuart Heggie stuart.j.heggie@... [ap-gto]

---
L'absence de virus dans ce courrier électronique a été vérifiée par le logiciel antivirus Avast.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]