AP Mach 1 with GTO 4 and a Hand Controller


bill taylor
 

Hi, I have a relatively new AP Mach 1 with GTO4 and a handset.  While observing visually a couple of nights ago, I suddenly lost power to the handset.  Upon investigation, the following was found:


Battery power was still at full, battery booster was putting out 13.5 volts to the Kenderick power distribution module. 
The Kendrick was still powered up and working normally, including the AP power socket going to the mount GTO 4 box. 
The GTO 4 was still powered up.
The mount was still tracking. 

I rebooted the power quickly, off at the Kendrick, back on in about 5 seconds, and everything came back up normally, including tracking.  When I looked at the handset, it had come back up on the normal object tracking screen, and knew where it was...

Any idea what happened, and how to fix it?

Thanks in advance,

Bill Taylor



Roland Christen
 

Is it a new keypad, or did you purchase it used?
 
By the way, losing power to the keypad does not require you to re-boot the CP4 servo. Just unplug the keypad and plug it back into the CP4. Once the CP4 is initialized at the beginning of a session, you can unplug the keypad any time and nothing is lost. The mount knows where it is and any application that sends an RA/Dec will cause the CP4 to go there. The keypad can be hot-plugged at any time.
 
Losing power to the keypad usually means bad connection at either end of the keypad cable. Older keypads may need to have the connectors cleaned inside the unit. Also make sure the keypad cable locking nut is locked on the CP servo.
 
Rolando
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: billtheastronut@... [ap-gto]
To: ap-gto
Sent: Mon, Sep 12, 2016 8:03 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] AP Mach 1 with GTO 4 and a Hand Controller



Hi, I have a relatively new AP Mach 1 with GTO4 and a handset.  While observing visually a couple of nights ago, I suddenly lost power to the handset.  Upon investigation, the following was found:

Battery power was still at full, battery booster was putting out 13.5 volts to the Kenderick power distribution module. 
The Kendrick was still powered up and working normally, including the AP power socket going to the mount GTO 4 box. 
The GTO 4 was still powered up.
The mount was still tracking. 

I rebooted the power quickly, off at the Kendrick, back on in about 5 seconds, and everything came back up normally, including tracking.  When I looked at the handset, it had come back up on the normal object tracking screen, and knew where it was...

Any idea what happened, and how to fix it?

Thanks in advance,

Bill Taylor





bill taylor
 

Rolando,

Thank you for the information.  The keypad was purchased and delivered with the mount, I think that was back in May...Basically everything is new.  I don't feel any play or slop in either end of the cable connections from the handset or at the GTO 4 box. 

Bill Taylor


 

Bill,

 

I notice that you are using a Kendrick power distribution module. Do you have multiple items plugged into the same power source with the mount?

 

Please note that we recommend that the mount have a dedicated power supply. Dew heaters and other accessories tend to pull a lot of power as they cycle, which can cause significant drops in power. If that happens, the keypad will not have enough voltage and may reset.

 

Clear Skies,

 

Marj Christen

Astro-Physics, Inc

11250 Forest Hills Rd

Machesney Park, IL 61115

Phone: 815-282-1513

Fax: 815-282-9847

www.astro-physics.com

 

From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2016 7:54 PM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: [ap-gto] AP Mach 1 with GTO 4 and a Hand Controller

 

 

Hi, I have a relatively new AP Mach 1 with GTO4 and a handset.  While observing visually a couple of nights ago, I suddenly lost power to the handset.  Upon investigation, the following was found:

 

Battery power was still at full, battery booster was putting out 13.5 volts to the Kenderick power distribution module. 

The Kendrick was still powered up and working normally, including the AP power socket going to the mount GTO 4 box. 

The GTO 4 was still powered up.

The mount was still tracking. 

 

I rebooted the power quickly, off at the Kendrick, back on in about 5 seconds, and everything came back up normally, including tracking.  When I looked at the handset, it had come back up on the normal object tracking screen, and knew where it was...

 

Any idea what happened, and how to fix it?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Bill Taylor

 

 


topboxman
 

I have a 12VDC deep cycle marine battery ( https://www.walmart.com/ip/EverStart-Maxx-Group-Size-24-Marine-Battery/20531538 ) and it's connected to the following astro devices:

1) A-P1100GTO mount
2) QSI660wsg camera
3) Optec/Starlight Instruments Focus Boss II auto focuser hub
4) 12VDC powered USB hub

and I have been running like this for 5 years (my previous mount was A-P Mach1GTO) without issues.

I agree that Dew heaters should be powered from a dedicated power supply/battery due to their Pulse Width Modulation (PWM) inducing noise. Also, laptops should be powered from a dedicated power source due to large power drain.

Peter


---In ap-gto@..., <marj@...> wrote :

Bill,

 

I notice that you are using a Kendrick power distribution module. Do you have multiple items plugged into the same power source with the mount?

 

Please note that we recommend that the mount have a dedicated power supply. Dew heaters and other accessories tend to pull a lot of power as they cycle, which can cause significant drops in power. If that happens, the keypad will not have enough voltage and may reset.

 

Clear Skies,

 

Marj Christen

Astro-Physics, Inc

11250 Forest Hills Rd

Machesney Park, IL 61115

Phone: 815-282-1513

Fax: 815-282-9847

www.astro-physics.com

 

From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2016 7:54 PM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: [ap-gto] AP Mach 1 with GTO 4 and a Hand Controller

 

 

Hi, I have a relatively new AP Mach 1 with GTO4 and a handset.  While observing visually a couple of nights ago, I suddenly lost power to the handset.  Upon investigation, the following was found:

 

Battery power was still at full, battery booster was putting out 13.5 volts to the Kenderick power distribution module. 

The Kendrick was still powered up and working normally, including the AP power socket going to the mount GTO 4 box. 

The GTO 4 was still powered up.

The mount was still tracking. 

 

I rebooted the power quickly, off at the Kendrick, back on in about 5 seconds, and everything came back up normally, including tracking.  When I looked at the handset, it had come back up on the normal object tracking screen, and knew where it was...

 

Any idea what happened, and how to fix it?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Bill Taylor

 

 


Joel Short
 

Peter and others, a related question.  I too use a deep cycle marine battery for travel purposes and on my battery box I have installed two buck-boost voltage regulators, one set at 15v and one set at 12.8v.  I use the 15v socket for my Mach1GTO and the 12.8 for my camera.  In this scenario, do you know if the PWM of dew heaters would affect the voltage of the regulators?
joel

On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 3:06 PM, pnagy@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...> wrote:
 

I have a 12VDC deep cycle marine battery ( https://www.walmart.com/ip/EverStart-Maxx-Group-Size-24-Marine-Battery/20531538 ) and it's connected to the following astro devices:

1) A-P1100GTO mount
2) QSI660wsg camera
3) Optec/Starlight Instruments Focus Boss II auto focuser hub
4) 12VDC powered USB hub

and I have been running like this for 5 years (my previous mount was A-P Mach1GTO) without issues.

I agree that Dew heaters should be powered from a dedicated power supply/battery due to their Pulse Width Modulation (PWM) inducing noise. Also, laptops should be powered from a dedicated power source due to large power drain.

Peter



---In ap-gto@..., wrote :

Bill,

 

I notice that you are using a Kendrick power distribution module. Do you have multiple items plugged into the same power source with the mount?

 

Please note that we recommend that the mount have a dedicated power supply. Dew heaters and other accessories tend to pull a lot of power as they cycle, which can cause significant drops in power. If that happens, the keypad will not have enough voltage and may reset.

 

Clear Skies,

 

Marj Christen

Astro-Physics, Inc

11250 Forest Hills Rd

Machesney Park, IL 61115

Phone: 815-282-1513

Fax: 815-282-9847

www.astro-physics.com

 

From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2016 7:54 PM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: [ap-gto] AP Mach 1 with GTO 4 and a Hand Controller

 

 

Hi, I have a relatively new AP Mach 1 with GTO4 and a handset.  While observing visually a couple of nights ago, I suddenly lost power to the handset.  Upon investigation, the following was found:

 

Battery power was still at full, battery booster was putting out 13.5 volts to the Kenderick power distribution module. 

The Kendrick was still powered up and working normally, including the AP power socket going to the mount GTO 4 box. 

The GTO 4 was still powered up.

The mount was still tracking. 

 

I rebooted the power quickly, off at the Kendrick, back on in about 5 seconds, and everything came back up normally, including tracking.  When I looked at the handset, it had come back up on the normal object tracking screen, and knew where it was...

 

Any idea what happened, and how to fix it?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Bill Taylor

 

 



bill taylor
 

Hi Marj,

I do use the deep cycle for the other power loads, but the deep cycle is a large 105 amp AGM, and I have no large loads on the Kendrick.  I live in a dry environment, no need for dew heaters, and designed the power cable to the Kendricks to carry 20 amps with less that 0.05 v drop.  I also use a voltage booster on the feed to the Kendrick so that the power to the Kendrick stays at 13.5 volts continuously.  Needless to say, the capability of the power supply far exceeds the demands put upon it.  The largest power draw besides the mount is the camera, and it draws only 2.0 A maximum at 12 volts.  The other power usage is a focuser that only operates intermittently.  Also, the Kendrick has the 15V supply booster for the proper voltage to the mount.  I understand what you recommend, and would offer that when I had the handset go dark, there was nothing connected to the Kendrick, or the battery except the 15v supply to the mount. 

Thank You!



Joe Zeglinski
 

    Common (A/C) source power isn’t always a problem.
 
    I run my AP-900 (or AP-1200) from a single 10 amp Motorola (ham radio communications) wall-wart - to power not only the mount, but also the RCOS OTA servo focuser and triple primary PWM fans all running at high speeds,  its secondary mirror PWM heater and PIR field rotator, 8-port Digiport serial hub, a 7-port USB-3 hub, an SBIG STL-11000 CCD with an external RGH guider
....  and finally, a Kendrick Premier PWM dew heater ... powering a 46 inch “LONG”,  primary mirror circumferential heater band.
 
    It handled everything without a hitch over the past few years, not even any electrical noise in the images.
With such hassle free performance, I am considering possibly adding a coffee mug warmer :-)
 
Maybe it is only batteries that can’t handle ta single PWM heater load. Or, I’m just lucky, and this Motorola wall-wart is a real keeper.
 
Joe


Steven
 

You could hook up an electric blanket and a microwave oven to that setup, too, eh Jo?


S




From: ap-gto@... <ap-gto@...> on behalf of 'Joseph Zeglinski' J.Zeglinski@... [ap-gto]
Sent: Tuesday, 13 September 2016 5:00 p.m.
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] AP Mach 1 with GTO 4 and a Hand Controller
 
 

    Common (A/C) source power isn’t always a problem.
 
    I run my AP-900 (or AP-1200) from a single 10 amp Motorola (ham radio communications) wall-wart - to power not only the mount, but also the RCOS OTA servo focuser and triple primary PWM fans all running at high speeds,  its secondary mirror PWM heater and PIR field rotator, 8-port Digiport serial hub, a 7-port USB-3 hub, an SBIG STL-11000 CCD with an external RGH guider
....  and finally, a Kendrick Premier PWM dew heater ... powering a 46 inch “LONG”,  primary mirror circumferential heater band.
 
    It handled everything without a hitch over the past few years, not even any electrical noise in the images.
With such hassle free performance, I am considering possibly adding a coffee mug warmer :-)
 
Maybe it is only batteries that can’t handle ta single PWM heater load. Or, I’m just lucky, and this Motorola wall-wart is a real keeper.
 
Joe


topboxman
 

Interesting question. If you want to connect PWM dew heater along with other astro devices, I suggest to connect dew heater directly to the battery instead of to power distribution box. For example if your power distribution box is mounted on top of OTA, you don't want to include dew heater to power distribution box because it's too close to other astro devices and dew heater can induce noise into the DC circuit. So connecting dew heater directly to the battery may greatly reduce noise induction into other astro devices. For best results, connect dew heater to another battery.

As for affecting voltage regulators, probably not as long as the input voltage to the regulators do not at anytime fall below the required minimum input voltage of the regulator. PWM dew heater can be quite noisy in 12VDC power line. If you have an oscilloscope, monitor the voltage and check if the voltage ever drops below minimum input voltage requirement of voltage regulator.

Peter


---In ap-gto@..., <buckeyestargazer@...> wrote :

Peter and others, a related question.  I too use a deep cycle marine battery for travel purposes and on my battery box I have installed two buck-boost voltage regulators, one set at 15v and one set at 12.8v.  I use the 15v socket for my Mach1GTO and the 12.8 for my camera.  In this scenario, do you know if the PWM of dew heaters would affect the voltage of the regulators?
joel

On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 3:06 PM, pnagy@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...> wrote:
 

I have a 12VDC deep cycle marine battery ( https://www.walmart.com/ip/ EverStart-Maxx-Group-Size-24- Marine-Battery/20531538 ) and it's connected to the following astro devices:

1) A-P1100GTO mount
2) QSI660wsg camera
3) Optec/Starlight Instruments Focus Boss II auto focuser hub
4) 12VDC powered USB hub

and I have been running like this for 5 years (my previous mount was A-P Mach1GTO) without issues.

I agree that Dew heaters should be powered from a dedicated power supply/battery due to their Pulse Width Modulation (PWM) inducing noise. Also, laptops should be powered from a dedicated power source due to large power drain.

Peter



---In ap-gto@..., <marj@...> wrote :

Bill,

 

I notice that you are using a Kendrick power distribution module. Do you have multiple items plugged into the same power source with the mount?

 

Please note that we recommend that the mount have a dedicated power supply. Dew heaters and other accessories tend to pull a lot of power as they cycle, which can cause significant drops in power. If that happens, the keypad will not have enough voltage and may reset.

 

Clear Skies,

 

Marj Christen

Astro-Physics, Inc

11250 Forest Hills Rd

Machesney Park, IL 61115

Phone: 815-282-1513

Fax: 815-282-9847

www.astro-physics.com

 

From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@... ]
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2016 7:54 PM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: [ap-gto] AP Mach 1 with GTO 4 and a Hand Controller

 

 

Hi, I have a relatively new AP Mach 1 with GTO4 and a handset.  While observing visually a couple of nights ago, I suddenly lost power to the handset.  Upon investigation, the following was found:

 

Battery power was still at full, battery booster was putting out 13.5 volts to the Kenderick power distribution module. 

The Kendrick was still powered up and working normally, including the AP power socket going to the mount GTO 4 box. 

The GTO 4 was still powered up.

The mount was still tracking. 

 

I rebooted the power quickly, off at the Kendrick, back on in about 5 seconds, and everything came back up normally, including tracking.  When I looked at the handset, it had come back up on the normal object tracking screen, and knew where it was...

 

Any idea what happened, and how to fix it?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Bill Taylor

 

 



Joe Zeglinski
 

Steve,
 
    Instead of a blanket, I saw a movie decades ago with an advanced  Japanese amateur astronomer who plugged in his electric heated  slippers.
 
Joe


Roland Christen
 

when I had the handset go dark, there was nothing connected to the Kendrick, or the battery except the 15v supply to the mount. 
 
If this is a one-off situation, it could have been a loose connection on the CP4. If it does it again, remove the back of the keypad and look inside at the connector to see if it is loose. If you can't fix it, then we will have to look at it here.
 
Roland Christen
aka Rolando
 
-----Original Message-----
From: billtheastronut@... [ap-gto]
To: ap-gto
Sent: Tue, Sep 13, 2016 3:52 pm
Subject: RE: [ap-gto] AP Mach 1 with GTO 4 and a Hand Controller



Hi Marj,

I do use the deep cycle for the other power loads, but the deep cycle is a large 105 amp AGM, and I have no large loads on the Kendrick.  I live in a dry environment, no need for dew heaters, and designed the power cable to the Kendricks to carry 20 amps with less that 0.05 v drop.  I also use a voltage booster on the feed to the Kendrick so that the power to the Kendrick stays at 13.5 volts continuously.  Needless to say, the capability of the power supply far exceeds the demands put upon it.  The largest power draw besides the mount is the camera, and it draws only 2.0 A maximum at 12 volts.  The other power usage is a focuser that only operates intermittently.  Also, the Kendrick has the 15V supply booster for the proper voltage to the mount.  I understand what you recommend, and would offer that when I had the handset go dark, there was nothing connected to the Kendrick, or the battery except the 15v supply to the mount. 

Thank You!





Steven
 

Yeah, that's better! And electric ear muffs too!

S




From: ap-gto@... on behalf of 'Joseph Zeglinski' J.Zeglinski@... [ap-gto]
Sent: Tuesday, 13 September 2016 6:12 p.m.
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] AP Mach 1 with GTO 4 and a Hand Controller
 
 

Steve,
 
    Instead of a blanket, I saw a movie decades ago with an advanced  Japanese amateur astronomer who plugged in his electric heated  slippers.
 
Joe


bill taylor
 

Roland,

Thank you for your response in regards to the handset.  If I lose power to the handset again, I'll take a close look at the connection termination at the handset. 

Thank you again,

Bill Taylor


Christopher Erickson
 

The real problem with dew heaters is that they put spiky noise on the 12VDC that can disrupt other electronics.  It isn't so much about voltage drops or anything.

Christopher Erickson
Consulting Engineer
Summit Kinetics
Waikoloa, HI 96738
www.summitkinetics.com

 


From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2016 10:12 AM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] AP Mach 1 with GTO 4 and a Hand Controller

Peter and others, a related question.  I too use a deep cycle marine battery for travel purposes and on my battery box I have installed two buck-boost voltage regulators, one set at 15v and one set at 12.8v.  I use the 15v socket for my Mach1GTO and the 12.8 for my camera.  In this scenario, do you know if the PWM of dew heaters would affect the voltage of the regulators?
joel

On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 3:06 PM, pnagy@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...> wrote:

 

I have a 12VDC deep cycle marine battery ( https://www.walmart.com/ip/EverStart-Maxx-Group-Size-24-Marine-Battery/20531538 ) and it's connected to the following astro devices:

1) A-P1100GTO mount
2) QSI660wsg camera
3) Optec/Starlight Instruments Focus Boss II auto focuser hub
4) 12VDC powered USB hub

and I have been running like this for 5 years (my previous mount was A-P Mach1GTO) without issues.

I agree that Dew heaters should be powered from a dedicated power supply/battery due to their Pulse Width Modulation (PWM) inducing noise. Also, laptops should be powered from a dedicated power source due to large power drain.

Peter



---In ap-gto@..., wrote :

Bill,

 

I notice that you are using a Kendrick power distribution module. Do you have multiple items plugged into the same power source with the mount?

 

Please note that we recommend that the mount have a dedicated power supply. Dew heaters and other accessories tend to pull a lot of power as they cycle, which can cause significant drops in power. If that happens, the keypad will not have enough voltage and may reset.

 

Clear Skies,

 

Marj Christen

Astro-Physics, Inc

11250 Forest Hills Rd

Machesney Park, IL 61115

Phone: 815-282-1513

Fax: 815-282-9847

www.astro-physics.com

 

From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2016 7:54 PM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: [ap-gto] AP Mach 1 with GTO 4 and a Hand Controller

 

 

Hi, I have a relatively new AP Mach 1 with GTO4 and a handset.  While observing visually a couple of nights ago, I suddenly lost power to the handset.  Upon investigation, the following was found:

 

Battery power was still at full, battery booster was putting out 13.5 volts to the Kenderick power distribution module. 

The Kendrick was still powered up and working normally, including the AP power socket going to the mount GTO 4 box. 

The GTO 4 was still powered up.

The mount was still tracking. 

 

I rebooted the power quickly, off at the Kendrick, back on in about 5 seconds, and everything came back up normally, including tracking.  When I looked at the handset, it had come back up on the normal object tracking screen, and knew where it was...

 

Any idea what happened, and how to fix it?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Bill Taylor