Mount does not stop


Kent Kirkley
 

In a message dated 8/8/07 2:13:12 PM, cluster@ccdimages.com writes:


When I use the keypad, sometimes the mount will continue to slew so I
have to press stop.  I thought it was the key pad but PulseGuide did
the same thing without the keypad.   Someone told me it was in the
controler box.   So far I have not seen this using the Sky or CCD
Commander.  Anyway thoughts ?

Dean
Dean:
You say 'the mount will continue to slew'.
Are you saying the mount is running away at high speed?
If this is the case, I'm betting you have a power supply problem.
I've seen this happen when I've been running on batteries and the voltage
drops to a low level.

Kent Kirkley


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Roland Christen
 

In a message dated 8/8/2007 2:14:01 PM Central Daylight Time,
cluster@ccdimages.com writes:


When I use the keypad, sometimes the mount will continue to slew so I
have to press stop.
Your voltage supply is too low for the slew speed that you have chosen. That
means that the motors are not getting enough voltage to achieve the chosen
slew speed. Therefore the motors will fall behind the commanded position and are
trying to make up for the position shortfall at the end after you have let go
of the buttons.

Do one of two things: either get a 15 volt supply that can deliver the
current necessary for the 1200x slew speed or turn your max slew speed down to a
lower value (600x for heavy loads).

Rolando


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Roland Christen
 

In a message dated 8/8/2007 3:55:14 PM Central Daylight Time,
cluster@ccdimages.com writes:


The problem occurs at 600 and I have 12.5 volts because the box I
have is a custom built box (by a professional EE that works at Keck
now) and reports exactly the output sent to what is attached. So
this is sounding like what I have heard from others and need to send
in the control box.
It probably is not the control box. It could be caused by too much load on
the worm which can cause the motors to slow down. Please check your worm mesh to
make sure that the worm is not overloaded.

Roland Christen


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Roland Christen
 

In a message dated 8/8/2007 4:28:47 PM Central Daylight Time,
cluster@ccdimages.com writes:


ok, I will check but this in happening in both axis and that seems
that should not be the case
It may be difficult or impossible to duplicate an intermittent problem. If
this happens all the time, then we might be able to find it in the servo, but
intermittents sometimes are caused by conditions that we do not experience here
(faulty power supply would be one).

Rolando


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Dean Salman <cluster@...>
 

When I use the keypad, sometimes the mount will continue to slew so I
have to press stop. I thought it was the key pad but PulseGuide did
the same thing without the keypad. Someone told me it was in the
controler box. So far I have not seen this using the Sky or CCD
Commander. Anyway thoughts ?

Dean


Kent Kirkley
 

In a message dated 8/8/07 5:48:46 PM, cluster@ccdimages.com writes:


On this statement, I never see the yellow light, I assume if that is
the case, then the mount has all the power it needs. 


If voltage is so important on these puppies, AP needs to consider
installing a simple meter or voltage detector to let the user know
how much power it is getting. This is much like the lights on a car
over a meter, we know what car lights are called.
Dean:
Just to "cover all the bases", why not try powering the mount from a 110 to
12v power supply.
If the problem isn't evident, then its your batteres.
If the problem is still there, it indicates the problem is elsewhere.

Kent Kirkley


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Dean Salman <cluster@...>
 

The problem occurs at 600 and I have 12.5 volts because the box I
have is a custom built box (by a professional EE that works at Keck
now) and reports exactly the output sent to what is attached. So
this is sounding like what I have heard from others and need to send
in the control box.


--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, chris1011@... wrote:

In a message dated 8/8/2007 2:14:01 PM Central Daylight Time,
cluster@... writes:


When I use the keypad, sometimes the mount will continue to slew
so I
have to press stop.
Your voltage supply is too low for the slew speed that you have
chosen. That
means that the motors are not getting enough voltage to achieve the
chosen
slew speed. Therefore the motors will fall behind the commanded
position and are
trying to make up for the position shortfall at the end after you
have let go
of the buttons.

Do one of two things: either get a 15 volt supply that can deliver
the
current necessary for the 1200x slew speed or turn your max slew
speed down to a
lower value (600x for heavy loads).

Rolando


**************************************
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Joe Zeglinski
 

Hi Dean,

One last shot - measure the voltage AT the end of the AP power cable. The
power supply may be fine, but the AP cable or connector may be marginal, at
the control panel. Unplug it from there, and measure the voltage right at the
tip. Also, with the cable plugged in, try to carefully measure the 6 volt aux.
power on the panel. If the power cable socket connection is bad, the 6 volts
will be low as well.

Sure would be nice if the control panel had some test sockets for a
voltage probe check.

Joe

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dean Salman" <cluster@ccdimages.com>
To: <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 4:47 PM
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Mount does not stop


The problem occurs at 600 and I have 12.5 volts because the box I
have is a custom built box (by a professional EE that works at Keck
now) and reports exactly the output sent to what is attached. So
this is sounding like what I have heard from others and need to send
in the control box.


--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, chris1011@... wrote:

In a message dated 8/8/2007 2:14:01 PM Central Daylight Time,
cluster@... writes:


When I use the keypad, sometimes the mount will continue to slew
so I
have to press stop.
Your voltage supply is too low for the slew speed that you have
chosen. That
means that the motors are not getting enough voltage to achieve the
chosen
slew speed. Therefore the motors will fall behind the commanded
position and are
trying to make up for the position shortfall at the end after you
have let go
of the buttons.

Do one of two things: either get a 15 volt supply that can deliver
the
current necessary for the 1200x slew speed or turn your max slew
speed down to a
lower value (600x for heavy loads).

Rolando


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Dean Salman <cluster@...>
 

ok, I will check but this in happening in both axis and that seems
that should not be the case


--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, chris1011@... wrote:

In a message dated 8/8/2007 3:55:14 PM Central Daylight Time,
cluster@... writes:


The problem occurs at 600 and I have 12.5 volts because the box I
have is a custom built box (by a professional EE that works at
Keck
now) and reports exactly the output sent to what is attached. So
this is sounding like what I have heard from others and need to
send
in the control box.
It probably is not the control box. It could be caused by too much
load on
the worm which can cause the motors to slow down. Please check your
worm mesh to
make sure that the worm is not overloaded.

Roland Christen


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


dcroff453 <dcroff453@...>
 

Dean,
Have you tried spreading the connector pins on the 12-volt plug in
socket, that I suggested to you earlier? My 900 mount I had to do
this several times over a 5 year period.
cheers
darrell

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "Dean Salman" <cluster@...> wrote:

When I use the keypad, sometimes the mount will continue to slew so I
have to press stop. I thought it was the key pad but PulseGuide did
the same thing without the keypad. Someone told me it was in the
controler box. So far I have not seen this using the Sky or CCD
Commander. Anyway thoughts ?

Dean


Dean Salman <cluster@...>
 

It is a kind of stupid connector, the one in Benson where I work does
not work very well also. The simple one like the one I have on the
power box is a twist interlocking part that cost about $5, it just
about can never fail. They are hard to fine though, but I wish I
could replace the one on the mount with that type. Maybe when I go
to Hawaii, I can take the controler with me and have that done.

If voltage is so important on these puppies, AP needs to consider
installing a simple meter or voltage detector to let the user know
how much power it is getting. This is much like the lights on a car
over a meter, we know what car lights are called.

Anyway, I can see exactly what how much power the mount pulls because
the power box I have has meter (it has 4 meters). When something is
connected to it, it shows the increase. Since I am using a new cable
from the power to the mount, are you saying what I need to adjust is
on the controler box. Someone is comming by to look at the worm gear.

I really don't care if the slew does not stop when using a key pad,
but it this starts happing with TheSky, maybe I should have throught
twice aout the 1200.


--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "dcroff453" <dcroff453@...> wrote:

Dean,
Have you tried spreading the connector pins on the 12-volt plug in
socket, that I suggested to you earlier? My 900 mount I had to do
this several times over a 5 year period.
cheers
darrell

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "Dean Salman" <cluster@> wrote:

When I use the keypad, sometimes the mount will continue to slew
so I
have to press stop. I thought it was the key pad but PulseGuide
did
the same thing without the keypad. Someone told me it was in
the
controler box. So far I have not seen this using the Sky or CCD
Commander. Anyway thoughts ?

Dean


Dean Salman <cluster@...>
 

I know, it's like taking a car to the shop and it does not break. I
am glad to see the mount tracking like my old mount, I was concern I
would not get as good as tracking as I had with the custom made one I
had. The biggest error I was in the tracking logs was 0.2 over 3
hours. (which is what my old mount did, but non goto)


--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, chris1011@... wrote:

In a message dated 8/8/2007 4:28:47 PM Central Daylight Time,
cluster@... writes:


ok, I will check but this in happening in both axis and that
seems
that should not be the case
It may be difficult or impossible to duplicate an intermittent
problem. If
this happens all the time, then we might be able to find it in the
servo, but
intermittents sometimes are caused by conditions that we do not
experience here
(faulty power supply would be one).

Rolando


**************************************
Get a sneak peek of the all-new
AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Dean Salman <cluster@...>
 

On this statement, I never see the yellow light, I assume if that is
the case, then the mount has all the power it needs.


If voltage is so important on these puppies, AP needs to consider
installing a simple meter or voltage detector to let the user know
how much power it is getting. This is much like the lights on a car
over a meter, we know what car lights are called.


William R. Mattil <wrmattil@...>
 

Dean Salman wrote:
On this statement, I never see the yellow light, I assume if that is the case, then the mount has all the power it needs.

If voltage is so important on these puppies, AP needs to consider
installing a simple meter or voltage detector to let the user know
how much power it is getting. This is much like the lights on a car
over a meter, we know what car lights are called.







Hi Dean,

I assume that this is not a *new* mount ? But one that was used before ? CPOx ?


Bill

--

William R. Mattil : http://www.celestial-images.com


Dean Salman <cluster@...>
 

I am on AC to DC supply. Running, on 12 volt 160amp charged battery
with the mount connect directly to it does the same thing.

Here is my power box, when hooked to AC, every port puts out 12.5
volts. The person that built built $50K CCD Cameras before moving on
to Keck, don't think power is an issue The meter has 4 settings
which tell power in each connection (from the source), power from the
box as a whole (when on batteries) and how much power is being used
to what is connected.

http://www.ccdimages.com/astronomy/Power.jpg

But if there was a power issue, why would the light on the mount not
be yellow, isn't that what it is there for.

This is a used but only 4 years old. I will look at the worm mesh
which makes more sense. Again, as long as moving the mount with
TheSky does not cause issues, then I don't care. I thought I would
just post the question to get some idea. I will also try swicthing
the cable since the new one I got a month ago could be defective.

Thanks for the suggestions.






Dean:
Just to "cover all the bases", why not try powering the mount from
a 110 to
12v power supply.
If the problem isn't evident, then its your batteres.
If the problem is still there, it indicates the problem is
elsewhere.

Kent Kirkley


**************************************
Get a sneak peek of the
all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour




Richard Seavey <reseavey@...>
 

Dean
In 2004 a number of people had problems with their mounts similar to what
you describe. At that time, I think the problem was related to the keypad
firmware version 4.07 and maybe to GTO2 controllers. Does your mount have
the latest firmware updates? Maybe Rolando can shed more light on that issue.

Richard

At 12:35 AM 8/9/2007 +0000, you wrote:

I am on AC to DC supply. Running, on 12 volt 160amp charged battery
with the mount connect directly to it does the same thing.

Here is my power box, when hooked to AC, every port puts out 12.5
volts. The person that built built $50K CCD Cameras before moving on
to Keck, don't think power is an issue The meter has 4 settings
which tell power in each connection (from the source), power from the
box as a whole (when on batteries) and how much power is being used
to what is connected.

<http://www.ccdimages.com/astronomy/Power.jpg>http://www.ccdimages.com/astronomy/Power.jpg

But if there was a power issue, why would the light on the mount not
be yellow, isn't that what it is there for.

This is a used but only 4 years old. I will look at the worm mesh
which makes more sense. Again, as long as moving the mount with
TheSky does not cause issues, then I don't care. I thought I would
just post the question to get some idea. I will also try swicthing
the cable since the new one I got a month ago could be defective.

Thanks for the suggestions.


Dean:
Just to "cover all the bases", why not try powering the mount from
a 110 to
12v power supply.
If the problem isn't evident, then its your batteres.
If the problem is still there, it indicates the problem is
elsewhere.

Kent Kirkley


**************************************
Get a sneak peek of the
all-new AOL at
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Dean Salman <cluster@...>
 

I know it is not the latest, 4.0? I do have the GTO2 box


--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, Richard Seavey <reseavey@...> wrote:

Dean
In 2004 a number of people had problems with their mounts similar
to what
you describe. At that time, I think the problem was related to the
keypad
firmware version 4.07 and maybe to GTO2 controllers. Does your
mount have
the latest firmware updates? Maybe Rolando can shed more light on
that issue.

Richard


At 12:35 AM 8/9/2007 +0000, you wrote:

I am on AC to DC supply. Running, on 12 volt 160amp charged battery
with the mount connect directly to it does the same thing.

Here is my power box, when hooked to AC, every port puts out 12.5
volts. The person that built built $50K CCD Cameras before moving
on
to Keck, don't think power is an issue The meter has 4 settings
which tell power in each connection (from the source), power from
the
box as a whole (when on batteries) and how much power is being used
to what is connected.
<http://www.ccdimages.com/astronomy/Power.jpg>http://www.ccdimages.co
m/astronomy/Power.jpg

But if there was a power issue, why would the light on the mount
not
be yellow, isn't that what it is there for.

This is a used but only 4 years old. I will look at the worm mesh
which makes more sense. Again, as long as moving the mount with
TheSky does not cause issues, then I don't care. I thought I would
just post the question to get some idea. I will also try swicthing
the cable since the new one I got a month ago could be defective.

Thanks for the suggestions.


Dean:
Just to "cover all the bases", why not try powering the mount
from
a 110 to
12v power supply.
If the problem isn't evident, then its your batteres.
If the problem is still there, it indicates the problem is
elsewhere.

Kent Kirkley


**************************************
Get a sneak peek of the
all-new AOL at
<http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour>http://discover.aol.com/me
med/aolcom30tour


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Joe Zeglinski
 

Roland,

I wonder if a "test exchange" system could be implemented. When really
stumped, in a pinch, it would be nice to get a known working controller and/or
keypad, and cables, on a 7 day debug loan - a credit card buys it, if not
returned in time. That would allow eliminating the servos, and perhaps narrow
down the problem to one of the 3 other components - controller, keypad, or
cables. Such a plan would eliminate time and money lost in shipping the mount
back, which would also needlessly tie up your staff. The test package wouldn't
even have to be the very latest hardware version, so long as it is
known/tested to be in good working order, back at the factory.

Otherwise, one would have to try finding a nearby "good Samaritan", from
the AP group perhaps, who owns the same mount, to try a component swap test
with his controller/cables.

Joe

----- Original Message -----
From: <chris1011@aol.com>
To: <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 5:38 PM
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: Mount does not stop


In a message dated 8/8/2007 4:28:47 PM Central Daylight Time,
cluster@ccdimages.com writes:


ok, I will check but this in happening in both axis and that seems
that should not be the case
It may be difficult or impossible to duplicate an intermittent problem. If
this happens all the time, then we might be able to find it in the servo,
but
intermittents sometimes are caused by conditions that we do not experience
here
(faulty power supply would be one).

Rolando


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Roland Christen
 

In a message dated 8/8/2007 7:37:31 PM Central Daylight Time,
cluster@ccdimages.com writes:


This is a used but only 4 years old. I will look at the worm mesh
which makes more sense. Again, as long as moving the mount with
TheSky does not cause issues, then I don't care.
Whether being moved by TheSky or by TheKeypad, the motors are always only
controlled by the servo controller. The problem is not in TheSky or TheKeypad -
they are simply software word generators - the problem must be adressed in the
actual electrical portion of the mount. Please understand that software cannot
move motors directly, it is the capture of the software words by the servo
and then translating those words into electrical signals sent to the motors that
results in the mechanical movement.

here are the possibilities:

1: not enough voltage for the motors to do the job being told by the software
2: very tight worm mesh (can be caused by improper packing when the mount was
sent via UPS or other carrier which can cause the motor box to jam into the
worm).
3: faulty receiver/transmitter chip (UART chip) inside the servo box - this
normally is a total failure, not intermittent and will cause total failure to
communicate.

If it is inside the servo box (CP2 or CP3), the mount can not be controlled
from an external source such as the keypad or a computer, but the motors will
still track at the sidereal rate. If the worm mesh is too tight, then the
motors will not be able to keep up with the commanded motion, will fall behind and
will try to catch up even after receiving a stop signal (stop signal =
direction key not pressed).

If the mount has been purchased second hand, it is a good idea to go over the
mount mechanically to make sure that all items work. It is quite common for a
3rd party to pack the mount inadequately and ship it with little or no
protection on the motor gearboxes. These motor boxes can be forced into the worm by
blows received during shipping. You can check this easily when you receive the
mount. Remove the motor gear covers and try turning the large spur gear by
hand. If it moves freely, the motors can do their job. If it feels tight, you
will need to reset the worm mesh - a job so simple that even I can do it!!

Rolando


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Roland Christen
 

In a message dated 8/8/2007 9:47:42 PM Central Daylight Time,
J.Zeglinski@rogers.com writes:


I wonder if a "test exchange" system could be implemented. When really
stumped, in a pinch, it would be nice to get a known working controller
and/or
keypad, and cables, on a 7 day debug loan - a credit card buys it, if not
returned in time. That would allow eliminating the servos, and perhaps
narrow
down the problem to one of the 3 other components - controller, keypad, or
cables.
Certainly, we have done that. However, if the customer can do a few simple
tests and adjustments ahead of time it narrows things down quickly and helps us
to the final soution. Just throwing up hands and saying it doesn't work is not
helpful to me.

Rolando


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