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  2. Paramount ME vs. AP 1200GTO

Paramount ME vs. AP 1200GTO

Dr. David Toth
 

At 11:05 AM 2/28/2007, David B. Toth wrote:


It had been my experience though that the polar alignment scope got
me pretty close for visual
observing so that pointing was not too bad.
Just to be clear:
I meant with the AP800 ... the ME doesn't have a polar alignment scope.

Dave
Dr. David Toth
 

At 08:52 AM 2/28/2007, Bryan Henry wrote:
I do visual work and find a pointing model to be very useful for
improving accuracy with a less than perfectly aligned AP900. It has
nothing to do with bragging rights and everything to do with locating
an object at the edge of detection. I understand the mount is
mechanically capable of incredible pointing accuracy when the RA axis
is nearly perfectly polar aligned and the telescope OTA is
orthogonal. But when you have 2 hours and must set up from scratch
there is not much time for achieving this alignment perfection. In
this case having a model to continually improve accuracy while you
observe makes sense.
Bryan: I certainly wasn't trying to belittle anyone's effort to improve their pointing.
I have an older AP800 mount but usually use my Paramount ME when I go portable
(although it is usually in my observatory) ... I use TPoint to polar align and THEN I do
a small pointing model later (I also have TheSKY PE with TPoint).

It had been my experience though that the polar alignment scope got me pretty close for visual
observing so that pointing was not too bad. But, it of course depends on the FL of the OTA and
whether you are sure of what you saw - i.e. if you are trying to see things at the limits of detection,
I understand one feels more honest if they were more sure that the object WAS actual in a place
to be seen, rather than using averted imagination. I usually don't try to find real faint things visually
with the 7" f/7, but maybe the time has come to push the envelope a bit!



I use the PDA version of The Sky with TPoint and it improves the
pointing enough to ensure the object is very near the center of the
field with a casual setup of my AP900. Having this capability in the
hand control would be more useful because there is one less device
and fewer things to go wrong. TPoint also provides the ability to
tweak various model parameters for even greater accuracy but I just
use the default parameters and find it works fine. Hopefully the AP
implementation will make it simple and easy to use.
Well, Rolando et al have been pretty innovative in the past, so nothing would surprise me. Since you
have TPoint, you'd have the best of both worlds.

Enjoy,
Dave
planetary_hunter
 

I do visual work and find a pointing model to be very useful for
improving accuracy with a less than perfectly aligned AP900. It has
nothing to do with bragging rights and everything to do with locating
an object at the edge of detection. I understand the mount is
mechanically capable of incredible pointing accuracy when the RA axis
is nearly perfectly polar aligned and the telescope OTA is
orthogonal. But when you have 2 hours and must set up from scratch
there is not much time for achieving this alignment perfection. In
this case having a model to continually improve accuracy while you
observe makes sense.

I use the PDA version of The Sky with TPoint and it improves the
pointing enough to ensure the object is very near the center of the
field with a casual setup of my AP900. Having this capability in the
hand control would be more useful because there is one less device
and fewer things to go wrong. TPoint also provides the ability to
tweak various model parameters for even greater accuracy but I just
use the default parameters and find it works fine. Hopefully the AP
implementation will make it simple and easy to use.

Bryan

--- In ap-gto@..., "David B. Toth" <ve3gyq@...> wrote:

You can still use TPoint with your scope with a computer ... you do
not need to have a pointing model in your hand-controller.
And if you are doing visual work only, it is unlikely that you
would
need a pointing model. If you are doing CCD work, I am sure that
you
can place objects on a chip without a pointing model with a 1200
mount. TPoint would certainly make it more likely that it would be
centered however. However, if you were doing CCD work, you'd have a
computer anyway so you COULD use TPoint for pointing.

So the point is, if you are using a hand-controller, it is likely
that you are doing visual work, and a pointing model in that case
simply gives you bragging rights and really will contribute little
to
your viewing enjoyment.

Enjoy your mount, worry less.


Dave
Dr. David Toth
 

At 09:32 AM 2/27/2007, Jeff Young wrote:


While I'm one of those people that nag Roland for a pointing model,
there's really no reason (other than that it would be cool). I've
never had a target placed outside a 26mm T5, even with all the above
caveats.
You can still use TPoint with your scope with a computer ... you do not need to have a pointing model in your hand-controller.
And if you are doing visual work only, it is unlikely that you would need a pointing model. If you are doing CCD work, I am sure that you can place objects on a chip without a pointing model with a 1200 mount. TPoint would certainly make it more likely that it would be centered however. However, if you were doing CCD work, you'd have a computer anyway so you COULD use TPoint for pointing.

So the point is, if you are using a hand-controller, it is likely that you are doing visual work, and a pointing model in that case simply gives you bragging rights and really will contribute little to your viewing enjoyment.

Enjoy your mount, worry less.


Dave
Jeff Young <jey@...>
 

Rob --

I have an AP1200GTO in a 10' TI dome. I used to spend hours drift
aligning my fork mounts, but I've never done anything more than a
quick and dirty alignment using the polar scope with the AP.

I tried shimming the tube for orthogonality, but a 0.005" piece of
brass shimstock was larger than the orthogonality error (this had to
be dumb luck -- there's no way my OTA and rings were fabricated with
that kind of precision).

My OTA is a big SCT, which has some mirror flop (probably on the
order of a couple of arc-minutes), and a horrendously long focal
length (about 4450mm with rotator and focuser on the back).

While I'm one of those people that nag Roland for a pointing model,
there's really no reason (other than that it would be cool). I've
never had a target placed outside a 26mm T5, even with all the above
caveats.

Oh, and I also find that a GLP works well as a finder. I did have
to place a dew-heater strip under mine, as the output of mine falls
off dramatically around 2°C, but the heater has eliminated that
problem. But the biggest advantage of the GLP is that in Ireland I
often observe in partly-cloudy conditions, and when the veiw starts
to go fuzzy I can turn the GLP on for a second and quickly see
(without having to getting up from my seat) whether or not I'm
getting obscured by clouds.

-- Jeff.


--- In ap-gto@..., "sreilly" <sreilly@...> wrote:

Rob,

The last time I was at your observatory, granted some time ago, I
remember
the mount being center of the dome. Regardless, it's a ten foot
dome. If
perfect pointing in an issue and you don't want to use the
computer with any
modeling, what Roland is suggesting is fast and simple. I'm not
sure what Ed
may have shown you last week, but his Polar alignment was done by
me using
PoleAlignMax , PEM was programmed by using the included PemPro
using
multiple guider cycles. Earlier issues with pointing was corrected
when I
had him check his location setup in his hand controller, TheSky,
ACP and
other programs he was using and making then identical in all
programs. His
pointing is great now.

If you are thinking ME, how can you not use the computer to have T-
Point
model active? After having just set up your Gemini G11, what is
the rush to
get another mount other than the obvious move up in mounts?

Steve



-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...] On
Behalf Of
chris1011@...
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 8:24 PM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: Paramount ME vs. AP 1200GTO

In a message dated 2/22/2007 6:35:57 PM Central Standard Time,
W3DX@...
writes:


If A-P had the product in stock and had the pointing model in
the
hand controller, it would make this a very easy decision for me.
I
already own/use TPoint from the computer, but having a pointing
model up and running on the hand controller would be great for
visual observing when the computer is turned off.
In an observatory situation you may never need a pointing model.
You can set

up your scope to be quite orthogonal and well polar aligned, so
the only
error
would come from atmospheric refraction, and that is already
compensated in
the keypad. In my own observatory I have set up a 10" F14.6 Mak-
Cass
permanently, and I never fail to place objects in the field of a
medium
power eyepiece. I
don't ever use a pointing model and have never failed to find
something
right
off the bat. It is a simple thing to place a bright star on the
crosshair at

the beginning of the session, press Rcal and then zoom around the
area with
pretty high precision. When I go to any other area of the sky, I
first go to
a
bright star in the area, center it if it is off, and proceed to
the object I

want to observe. It takes almost no time to do that. I have a
green laser
setup
on the scope, so I don't even have to look through the finder. The
laser
beam
is as accurate as any 1x finder system, and prevents craning my
neck at odd
angles.
A pointing model is most useful for those mounts that need to be
set up each

night fresh, but for a permanent setup it is not all that
necessary (except
for those using teeny tiny chips with loooong scopes like C14s).

Rolando


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sreilly <sreilly@...>
 

Rob,

The last time I was at your observatory, granted some time ago, I remember
the mount being center of the dome. Regardless, it's a ten foot dome. If
perfect pointing in an issue and you don't want to use the computer with any
modeling, what Roland is suggesting is fast and simple. I'm not sure what Ed
may have shown you last week, but his Polar alignment was done by me using
PoleAlignMax , PEM was programmed by using the included PemPro using
multiple guider cycles. Earlier issues with pointing was corrected when I
had him check his location setup in his hand controller, TheSky, ACP and
other programs he was using and making then identical in all programs. His
pointing is great now.

If you are thinking ME, how can you not use the computer to have T-Point
model active? After having just set up your Gemini G11, what is the rush to
get another mount other than the obvious move up in mounts?

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...] On Behalf Of
chris1011@...
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 8:24 PM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: Paramount ME vs. AP 1200GTO

In a message dated 2/22/2007 6:35:57 PM Central Standard Time, W3DX@...
writes:


If A-P had the product in stock and had the pointing model in the
hand controller, it would make this a very easy decision for me. I
already own/use TPoint from the computer, but having a pointing
model up and running on the hand controller would be great for
visual observing when the computer is turned off.
In an observatory situation you may never need a pointing model. You can set

up your scope to be quite orthogonal and well polar aligned, so the only
error
would come from atmospheric refraction, and that is already compensated in
the keypad. In my own observatory I have set up a 10" F14.6 Mak-Cass
permanently, and I never fail to place objects in the field of a medium
power eyepiece. I
don't ever use a pointing model and have never failed to find something
right
off the bat. It is a simple thing to place a bright star on the crosshair at

the beginning of the session, press Rcal and then zoom around the area with
pretty high precision. When I go to any other area of the sky, I first go to
a
bright star in the area, center it if it is off, and proceed to the object I

want to observe. It takes almost no time to do that. I have a green laser
setup
on the scope, so I don't even have to look through the finder. The laser
beam
is as accurate as any 1x finder system, and prevents craning my neck at odd
angles.
A pointing model is most useful for those mounts that need to be set up each

night fresh, but for a permanent setup it is not all that necessary (except
for those using teeny tiny chips with loooong scopes like C14s).

Rolando


**************************************
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ayiomamitis
 

--- In ap-gto@..., chris1011@... wrote:

want to observe. It takes almost no time to do that. I have a green
laser setup
on the scope, so I don't even have to look through the finder. The
laser beam
is as accurate as any 1x finder system, and prevents craning my neck
at odd
angles.
THIS IS COOL!!! (caps on purpose and for emphasis)

Anthony.


Rolando
heathkitguy <W3DX@...>
 

James:

Thanks so much for your advice, and thanks again to others on the
list who have written.

If A-P had the product in stock and had the pointing model in the
hand controller, it would make this a very easy decision for me. I
already own/use TPoint from the computer, but having a pointing
model up and running on the hand controller would be great for
visual observing when the computer is turned off. I think this is
one of the coolest features of the Losmandy G-11.

I may wind up waiting for the AP 1200 rather than purchasing the
Paramount. I am encouraged that the production run of 1200's is
starting soon, and it might be possible to obtain a mount mid year.

One gentlemen wrote and suggested that I purchase the ME, and then
swap it out when the 1200 is available. But the implementation is
more complex than it might seem on the surface. I currently have a
six-inch AstroPier, which mounts on three bolts set in about one ton
of concrete. Thus, it's essential that my next pier also has to be
an AstroPier. (I also happen to think that Le Seuer makes a great
pier.) The 1200 mounts on an 8.25-inch pier with a ten-inch ring
welded to the top. The ME mounts on an 8.25-inch pier with a custom-
made top plate fitted on top. The Paramount is about 4-inches
taller than the 1200 so the Paramount pier would be shorter than the
1200 pier. So the pier will have to be custom made to the choice of
mount.

Also, it's no picnic tearing apart an observatory down to the
footing for a pier, and rewiring everything, and then doing a
precise polar alignment. The last time I did this (when I upgraded
from the LX-200 to the Losmandy G-11) the observatory was out of
service for about four weeks.

By the way, if you would like to see my observatory, it's shown in
the July 2005 issue of Sky and Telescope. I wrote an article on how
to automate an observatory, and the article includes a photo of my
observatory.

Thank you again for your advice. I might hang in there and wait for
the 1200.

Clear skies,

Rob



--- In ap-gto@..., "jiprovi" <jiprovi@...> wrote:

Rob - I agree it is a difficult decision. The availablity of the
Paramount is certainly a factor,
although I would think that waiting six months and saving $3000 is
a significant
consideration. I would caution you on the benefits of the sky
Pocket edition - it is doable,
but the controls and small screen really makes this method of
telescope control not nearly
as nice as the AP hand controller. I tried it when I had the
Paramount and went back to a
laptop computer even for visual work.

Regarding seamless integration with SoftwarBisque, products. I
have had no issues with
using the AP1200. I have great success using The
Sky6+TPOINT+CCDSoft+RealSky
+AutomapperII+CCDAutopilot as well as
Sky6+Tpoint+MaxIMDL+PinPoint+CCDautopilot.
Actually another great beneift of AP mounts is that many other
planetarium programs
support it directly while the only way to control Paramount is
using The Sky6 and other
programs having to interface to the Sky6 (this has had issues in
the past).

The lack of point model in the AP hand controller is being
addressed and by all accounts
should be ready by the time your mount shows up in the next 6-8
months.

The real issue that I know many have a tough time is the wait - I
know that drove my
brothers' and miine decision greatly regarding the Paramount ME
purchase originally and
waiting 6-8months for many can feel like 6-8 years. Luckily - my
name came up for
AP1200 year ago and I decided to get one and once it showed up I
was hooked. Knowing
what I know now, I would wait the 6-8months, take the $3000
savings and purchase a
nice or nicer CCD camera or and $800 to it and add to your RC a
nice 5" APO (TMB
signature series or William Opics).

James

--- In ap-gto@..., "heathkitguy" <W3DX@> wrote:

Hi Gedas:

Well, it's a very hard question. But I'm leaning towards the
Paramount ME for the principle reason that the Paramount is
available for purchase, while the AP1200 is still on back
order. I
think that both mounts would be spectacular for my purposes, and
would give "observatory class" pointing accuracy and PEC, for a
backyard observatory. Both would handle big loads, and would
meet
my needs to carry an RC with a piggyback refractor and some
pretty
heavy accessories, including an SBIG STL-11000.

Pluses for the Paramount:
--It's available for purchase
--Control with The Sky Pocket Edition with TPoint Pocket Edition
enables me to get outstanding GOTO accuracy when operating in
visual
mode without a computer. (Essentially the PDA is operating as
the
hand controller.)
--Seemless integration with Software Bisque software products

Disadvantages for the Paramount:
--Absence of the hand controller makes dark adaption difficult
when
using the PDA in visual mode.
--The mount is a behometh. Very large for my 10-foot Technical
Innovations observatory.
--Expensive.

Pluses for the AP-1200
--Legendary product performance and technical support
--Legendary company history producing outstanding products
--Smaller size
--Hand Controller enables me to preserve dark adaptation when in
visual mode
--Costs $3,000 less than the Paramount

Disadvantaes of AP-1200
--Not available for purchase
--Hand controller does not have a built-in pointing model
capability
(yet). The Losmandy G11 (which I'm currently using) stores a
pointing model in the mount.

If the AP-1200 were available for purchase and the pointing
model
feature existed in the hand controller (so that I get 1 to 2
arcminute pointing accuracy with the hand controller), I'd be
leaning towards the AP-1200. I understand that AstroPhysics
hopes
to offer the pointing model in the hand controller at some point
in
the future.

Again, I don't think I could go wrong with either product, and
that
either mount would be the last mount I would likely ever
purchase.
Also, I want to extend my thanks to everyone who wrote to me.

Clear skies,

Rob



--- In ap-gto@..., "Gedas" <w8bya@> wrote:

Hi Rob, I was wondering if you could share with us what your
decision will be and why when the time does comes?
73, Gedas

----- Original Message -----
From: heathkitguy
To: ap-gto@...
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 4:32 PM
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Paramount ME vs. AP 1200GTO


This is just a short note to thank everyone who wrote to me
with
words
of advice about the decision between the Paramount ME and the
AP
1200. There was one very clear consensus: these are two very
fine
products that provide observatory class performance to amateur
astronomers.

Both mounts seem to be in the category of being "the last
mount"
that
most people intend to purchase.

Thank you again.

Clear skies,

Rob



To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list
see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gto
Yahoo! Groups Links
Roland Christen
 

In a message dated 2/22/2007 6:35:57 PM Central Standard Time, W3DX@...
writes:


If A-P had the product in stock and had the pointing model in the
hand controller, it would make this a very easy decision for me. I
already own/use TPoint from the computer, but having a pointing
model up and running on the hand controller would be great for
visual observing when the computer is turned off.
In an observatory situation you may never need a pointing model. You can set
up your scope to be quite orthogonal and well polar aligned, so the only error
would come from atmospheric refraction, and that is already compensated in
the keypad. In my own observatory I have set up a 10" F14.6 Mak-Cass
permanently, and I never fail to place objects in the field of a medium power eyepiece. I
don't ever use a pointing model and have never failed to find something right
off the bat. It is a simple thing to place a bright star on the crosshair at
the beginning of the session, press Rcal and then zoom around the area with
pretty high precision. When I go to any other area of the sky, I first go to a
bright star in the area, center it if it is off, and proceed to the object I
want to observe. It takes almost no time to do that. I have a green laser setup
on the scope, so I don't even have to look through the finder. The laser beam
is as accurate as any 1x finder system, and prevents craning my neck at odd
angles.
A pointing model is most useful for those mounts that need to be set up each
night fresh, but for a permanent setup it is not all that necessary (except
for those using teeny tiny chips with loooong scopes like C14s).

Rolando


**************************************
AOL now offers free email to
everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.
Herb York
 

Tell you what.
Buy an ME from ATWB now and we will ship it to you next week - if you
keep it AS NEW for 6 months I will buy it back from you and sell you
a brand new 1200 when they are available. I will let YOU try to sell
your ME on www.AstroMart.com for up to 3 weeks while you are waiting
for final delivery of the 1200. I will give you $10000 for the ME if
you can't get more for it in the 3 weeks. Accessories at 30% off
retail if as new.
Now you can buy the ME - try it - don't like it? - get the 1200
Thank you
Herb York
www.Binocs.com
www.BuyTelescopes.com
www.AstroMart.com

On Feb 22, 2007, at 3:54 AM, jiprovi wrote:

Rob - I agree it is a difficult decision. The availablity of the
Paramount is certainly a factor,
although I would think that waiting six months and saving $3000 is a
significant
consideration. I would caution you on the benefits of the sky Pocket
edition - it is doable,
but the controls and small screen really makes this method of
telescope control not nearly
as nice as the AP hand controller. I tried it when I had the
Paramount and went back to a
laptop computer even for visual work.

Regarding seamless integration with SoftwarBisque, products. I have
had no issues with
using the AP1200. I have great success using The Sky6+TPOINT+CCDSoft
+RealSky
+AutomapperII+CCDAutopilot as well as Sky6+Tpoint+MaxIMDL+PinPoint
+CCDautopilot.
Actually another great beneift of AP mounts is that many other
planetarium programs
support it directly while the only way to control Paramount is using
The Sky6 and other
programs having to interface to the Sky6 (this has had issues in the
past).

The lack of point model in the AP hand controller is being addressed
and by all accounts
should be ready by the time your mount shows up in the next 6-8 months.

The real issue that I know many have a tough time is the wait - I
know that drove my
brothers' and miine decision greatly regarding the Paramount ME
purchase originally and
waiting 6-8months for many can feel like 6-8 years. Luckily - my name
came up for
AP1200 year ago and I decided to get one and once it showed up I was
hooked. Knowing
what I know now, I would wait the 6-8months, take the $3000 savings
and purchase a
nice or nicer CCD camera or and $800 to it and add to your RC a nice
5" APO (TMB
signature series or William Opics).

James

--- In ap-gto@..., "heathkitguy" <W3DX@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Gedas:
>
> Well, it's a very hard question. But I'm leaning towards the
> Paramount ME for the principle reason that the Paramount is
> available for purchase, while the AP1200 is still on back order. I
> think that both mounts would be spectacular for my purposes, and
> would give "observatory class" pointing accuracy and PEC, for a
> backyard observatory. Both would handle big loads, and would meet
> my needs to carry an RC with a piggyback refractor and some pretty
> heavy accessories, including an SBIG STL-11000.
>
> Pluses for the Paramount:
> --It's available for purchase
> --Control with The Sky Pocket Edition with TPoint Pocket Edition
> enables me to get outstanding GOTO accuracy when operating in visual
> mode without a computer. (Essentially the PDA is operating as the
> hand controller.)
> --Seemless integration with Software Bisque software products
>
> Disadvantages for the Paramount:
> --Absence of the hand controller makes dark adaption difficult when
> using the PDA in visual mode.
> --The mount is a behometh. Very large for my 10-foot Technical
> Innovations observatory.
> --Expensive.
>
> Pluses for the AP-1200
> --Legendary product performance and technical support
> --Legendary company history producing outstanding products
> --Smaller size
> --Hand Controller enables me to preserve dark adaptation when in
> visual mode
> --Costs $3,000 less than the Paramount
>
> Disadvantaes of AP-1200
> --Not available for purchase
> --Hand controller does not have a built-in pointing model capability
> (yet). The Losmandy G11 (which I'm currently using) stores a
> pointing model in the mount.
>
> If the AP-1200 were available for purchase and the pointing model
> feature existed in the hand controller (so that I get 1 to 2
> arcminute pointing accuracy with the hand controller), I'd be
> leaning towards the AP-1200. I understand that AstroPhysics hopes
> to offer the pointing model in the hand controller at some point in
> the future.
>
> Again, I don't think I could go wrong with either product, and that
> either mount would be the last mount I would likely ever purchase.
> Also, I want to extend my thanks to everyone who wrote to me.
>
> Clear skies,
>
> Rob
>
>
>
> --- In ap-gto@..., "Gedas" <w8bya@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Rob, I was wondering if you could share with us what your
> decision will be and why when the time does comes?
> > 73, Gedas
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: heathkitguy
> > To: ap-gto@...
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 4:32 PM
> > Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Paramount ME vs. AP 1200GTO
> >
> >
> > This is just a short note to thank everyone who wrote to me with
> words
> > of advice about the decision between the Paramount ME and the AP
> > 1200. There was one very clear consensus: these are two very fine
> > products that provide observatory class performance to amateur
> > astronomers.
> >
> > Both mounts seem to be in the category of being "the last mount"
> that
> > most people intend to purchase.
> >
> > Thank you again.
> >
> > Clear skies,
> >
> > Rob
> >
> >
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list
> > see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gto
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
William R. Mattil <wrmattil@...>
 

Christopher Go wrote:
Hi Bill,

I wonder if you have checked their website. They have a phone number there.

Regards,

Chris
Try calling it :)

Bill

--

William R. Mattil : http://www.celestial-images.com
jiprovi
 

Rob - I agree it is a difficult decision. The availablity of the Paramount is certainly a factor,
although I would think that waiting six months and saving $3000 is a significant
consideration. I would caution you on the benefits of the sky Pocket edition - it is doable,
but the controls and small screen really makes this method of telescope control not nearly
as nice as the AP hand controller. I tried it when I had the Paramount and went back to a
laptop computer even for visual work.

Regarding seamless integration with SoftwarBisque, products. I have had no issues with
using the AP1200. I have great success using The Sky6+TPOINT+CCDSoft+RealSky
+AutomapperII+CCDAutopilot as well as Sky6+Tpoint+MaxIMDL+PinPoint+CCDautopilot.
Actually another great beneift of AP mounts is that many other planetarium programs
support it directly while the only way to control Paramount is using The Sky6 and other
programs having to interface to the Sky6 (this has had issues in the past).

The lack of point model in the AP hand controller is being addressed and by all accounts
should be ready by the time your mount shows up in the next 6-8 months.

The real issue that I know many have a tough time is the wait - I know that drove my
brothers' and miine decision greatly regarding the Paramount ME purchase originally and
waiting 6-8months for many can feel like 6-8 years. Luckily - my name came up for
AP1200 year ago and I decided to get one and once it showed up I was hooked. Knowing
what I know now, I would wait the 6-8months, take the $3000 savings and purchase a
nice or nicer CCD camera or and $800 to it and add to your RC a nice 5" APO (TMB
signature series or William Opics).

James

--- In ap-gto@..., "heathkitguy" <W3DX@...> wrote:

Hi Gedas:

Well, it's a very hard question. But I'm leaning towards the
Paramount ME for the principle reason that the Paramount is
available for purchase, while the AP1200 is still on back order. I
think that both mounts would be spectacular for my purposes, and
would give "observatory class" pointing accuracy and PEC, for a
backyard observatory. Both would handle big loads, and would meet
my needs to carry an RC with a piggyback refractor and some pretty
heavy accessories, including an SBIG STL-11000.

Pluses for the Paramount:
--It's available for purchase
--Control with The Sky Pocket Edition with TPoint Pocket Edition
enables me to get outstanding GOTO accuracy when operating in visual
mode without a computer. (Essentially the PDA is operating as the
hand controller.)
--Seemless integration with Software Bisque software products

Disadvantages for the Paramount:
--Absence of the hand controller makes dark adaption difficult when
using the PDA in visual mode.
--The mount is a behometh. Very large for my 10-foot Technical
Innovations observatory.
--Expensive.

Pluses for the AP-1200
--Legendary product performance and technical support
--Legendary company history producing outstanding products
--Smaller size
--Hand Controller enables me to preserve dark adaptation when in
visual mode
--Costs $3,000 less than the Paramount

Disadvantaes of AP-1200
--Not available for purchase
--Hand controller does not have a built-in pointing model capability
(yet). The Losmandy G11 (which I'm currently using) stores a
pointing model in the mount.

If the AP-1200 were available for purchase and the pointing model
feature existed in the hand controller (so that I get 1 to 2
arcminute pointing accuracy with the hand controller), I'd be
leaning towards the AP-1200. I understand that AstroPhysics hopes
to offer the pointing model in the hand controller at some point in
the future.

Again, I don't think I could go wrong with either product, and that
either mount would be the last mount I would likely ever purchase.
Also, I want to extend my thanks to everyone who wrote to me.

Clear skies,

Rob



--- In ap-gto@..., "Gedas" <w8bya@> wrote:

Hi Rob, I was wondering if you could share with us what your
decision will be and why when the time does comes?
73, Gedas

----- Original Message -----
From: heathkitguy
To: ap-gto@...
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 4:32 PM
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Paramount ME vs. AP 1200GTO


This is just a short note to thank everyone who wrote to me with
words
of advice about the decision between the Paramount ME and the AP
1200. There was one very clear consensus: these are two very fine
products that provide observatory class performance to amateur
astronomers.

Both mounts seem to be in the category of being "the last mount"
that
most people intend to purchase.

Thank you again.

Clear skies,

Rob



To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list
see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gto
Yahoo! Groups Links
Christopher Go <rigel@...>
 

Hi Bill,

I wonder if you have checked their website. They have a phone number there.

Regards,

Chris

At 02:55 PM 2/22/07, you wrote:

This is a major reason to prefer an AP mount. Bisque doesn't even
publish a phone number. And email support can be exasperating when
tracking down really bizarre problems.

Regards

Bill

--

William R. Mattil : http://www.celestial-images.com



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see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gto
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William R. Mattil <wrmattil@...>
 

Gilles Grosgurin wrote:
And these days the supply is much better from AP... You can post an ad
to various Astro-classified web sites and probably get an almost like
new 1200GTO mount for a lot less than a couple years ago. Also think of
the customer support you get.... Roland & crew are present on multiple
forums to answers multiple questions and tireless support. In my humble
opinion you rarely get this level of care from others... AP cares; they
are passionate about their mount and scopes...



This is a major reason to prefer an AP mount. Bisque doesn't even publish a phone number. And email support can be exasperating when tracking down really bizarre problems.

Regards

Bill

--

William R. Mattil : http://www.celestial-images.com
sreilly <sreilly@...>
 

Forget the complexity of T-Point and you can use the excellent program
MaxPoint.

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...] On Behalf Of
ayiomamitis
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 9:47 PM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Paramount ME vs. AP 1200GTO

--- In ap-gto@..., "heathkitguy" <W3DX@...> wrote:

Hi Gedas:

Well, it's a very hard question. But I'm leaning towards the
<snip>


Pluses for the AP-1200
--Legendary product performance and technical support --Legendary
company history producing outstanding products --Smaller size --Hand
Controller enables me to preserve dark adaptation when in visual mode
--Costs $3,000 less than the Paramount

Disadvantaes of AP-1200
--Not available for purchase
--Hand controller does not have a built-in pointing model capability
(yet). The Losmandy G11 (which I'm currently using) stores a pointing
model in the mount.
... or spend the $150 or so and purchase the TPoint software which also
works with the AP1200GTO ... and it will still cost you $3000 less overall
(okay, deduct the $150 for the software). :-)

Anthony.



To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list see
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gto
Yahoo! Groups - Join or create groups, clubs, forums &amp; communities.
Links
Gilles Grosgurin <gilles@...>
 

And these days the supply is much better from AP... You can post an ad
to various Astro-classified web sites and probably get an almost like
new 1200GTO mount for a lot less than a couple years ago. Also think of
the customer support you get.... Roland & crew are present on multiple
forums to answers multiple questions and tireless support. In my humble
opinion you rarely get this level of care from others... AP cares; they
are passionate about their mount and scopes...

-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...] On Behalf
Of ayiomamitis
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 6:47 PM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Paramount ME vs. AP 1200GTO

--- In ap-gto@..., "heathkitguy" <W3DX@...> wrote:

Hi Gedas:

Well, it's a very hard question. But I'm leaning towards the
<snip>


Pluses for the AP-1200
--Legendary product performance and technical support
--Legendary company history producing outstanding products
--Smaller size
--Hand Controller enables me to preserve dark adaptation when in
visual mode
--Costs $3,000 less than the Paramount

Disadvantaes of AP-1200
--Not available for purchase
--Hand controller does not have a built-in pointing model capability
(yet). The Losmandy G11 (which I'm currently using) stores a
pointing model in the mount.
... or spend the $150 or so and purchase the TPoint software which
also works with the AP1200GTO ... and it will still cost you $3000
less overall (okay, deduct the $150 for the software). :-)

Anthony.



To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list
see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gto
Yahoo! Groups - Join or create groups, clubs, forums &amp; communities.
Links
ayiomamitis
 

--- In ap-gto@..., "heathkitguy" <W3DX@...> wrote:

Hi Gedas:

Well, it's a very hard question. But I'm leaning towards the
<snip>


Pluses for the AP-1200
--Legendary product performance and technical support
--Legendary company history producing outstanding products
--Smaller size
--Hand Controller enables me to preserve dark adaptation when in
visual mode
--Costs $3,000 less than the Paramount

Disadvantaes of AP-1200
--Not available for purchase
--Hand controller does not have a built-in pointing model capability
(yet). The Losmandy G11 (which I'm currently using) stores a
pointing model in the mount.
... or spend the $150 or so and purchase the TPoint software which
also works with the AP1200GTO ... and it will still cost you $3000
less overall (okay, deduct the $150 for the software). :-)

Anthony.
heathkitguy <W3DX@...>
 

Hi Gedas:

Well, it's a very hard question. But I'm leaning towards the
Paramount ME for the principle reason that the Paramount is
available for purchase, while the AP1200 is still on back order. I
think that both mounts would be spectacular for my purposes, and
would give "observatory class" pointing accuracy and PEC, for a
backyard observatory. Both would handle big loads, and would meet
my needs to carry an RC with a piggyback refractor and some pretty
heavy accessories, including an SBIG STL-11000.

Pluses for the Paramount:
--It's available for purchase
--Control with The Sky Pocket Edition with TPoint Pocket Edition
enables me to get outstanding GOTO accuracy when operating in visual
mode without a computer. (Essentially the PDA is operating as the
hand controller.)
--Seemless integration with Software Bisque software products

Disadvantages for the Paramount:
--Absence of the hand controller makes dark adaption difficult when
using the PDA in visual mode.
--The mount is a behometh. Very large for my 10-foot Technical
Innovations observatory.
--Expensive.

Pluses for the AP-1200
--Legendary product performance and technical support
--Legendary company history producing outstanding products
--Smaller size
--Hand Controller enables me to preserve dark adaptation when in
visual mode
--Costs $3,000 less than the Paramount

Disadvantaes of AP-1200
--Not available for purchase
--Hand controller does not have a built-in pointing model capability
(yet). The Losmandy G11 (which I'm currently using) stores a
pointing model in the mount.

If the AP-1200 were available for purchase and the pointing model
feature existed in the hand controller (so that I get 1 to 2
arcminute pointing accuracy with the hand controller), I'd be
leaning towards the AP-1200. I understand that AstroPhysics hopes
to offer the pointing model in the hand controller at some point in
the future.

Again, I don't think I could go wrong with either product, and that
either mount would be the last mount I would likely ever purchase.
Also, I want to extend my thanks to everyone who wrote to me.

Clear skies,

Rob



--- In ap-gto@..., "Gedas" <w8bya@...> wrote:

Hi Rob, I was wondering if you could share with us what your
decision will be and why when the time does comes?
73, Gedas

----- Original Message -----
From: heathkitguy
To: ap-gto@...
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 4:32 PM
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Paramount ME vs. AP 1200GTO


This is just a short note to thank everyone who wrote to me with
words
of advice about the decision between the Paramount ME and the AP
1200. There was one very clear consensus: these are two very fine
products that provide observatory class performance to amateur
astronomers.

Both mounts seem to be in the category of being "the last mount"
that
most people intend to purchase.

Thank you again.

Clear skies,

Rob



To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list
see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gto
Yahoo! Groups Links




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Gedas
 

Hi Rob, I was wondering if you could share with us what your decision will be and why when the time does comes?
73, Gedas

----- Original Message -----
From: heathkitguy
To: ap-gto@...
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 4:32 PM
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Paramount ME vs. AP 1200GTO


This is just a short note to thank everyone who wrote to me with words
of advice about the decision between the Paramount ME and the AP
1200. There was one very clear consensus: these are two very fine
products that provide observatory class performance to amateur
astronomers.

Both mounts seem to be in the category of being "the last mount" that
most people intend to purchase.

Thank you again.

Clear skies,

Rob



To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list
see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gto
Yahoo! Groups Links
heathkitguy <W3DX@...>
 

This is just a short note to thank everyone who wrote to me with words
of advice about the decision between the Paramount ME and the AP
1200. There was one very clear consensus: these are two very fine
products that provide observatory class performance to amateur
astronomers.

Both mounts seem to be in the category of being "the last mount" that
most people intend to purchase.

Thank you again.

Clear skies,

Rob
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