110 scope musings


Roland Christen
 

helloo Astronuts,

Well, you have by now seen the 110 product page, and I have a few thoughts I want to pass along.

For the past 2 years I have been keenly aware of trends in this hobby, and have been listening to you active users as to what you want in a scope. So I have spent an inordinate amount of time working out the best optical system that would fulfill a lot of the most desirable things that everyone has requested. I'm leaving out Newts because it's not my specialty.

You want:
1)  sharp stars with essentially perfect color correction:   Apo Triplet Refractors, Mak-Newts, Mak-Cass
2)  High power visual instrument with highest contrast and Strehl:   Refractors, Mak-Newts, Mak-Cass with very small obstruction
3)  capable of imaging wide fields as well as the above:   Whoops, that leaves only Refractors and Maks with large obstruction
4)  High power high contrast visual + wide field imaging capability.   That leaves only Refractors.

I know that lots of people would like to have a high performance visual scope that has refractor-like contrast and a Mak-Newt fills the bill. But there is no way you can also use it for wide field imaging. As soon as you make the secondary size big enough to cover any modern imaging chip, there goes the visual contrast. Only the refractor can fulfill all uses at once. With today's newest glass compounds we can make a fast refractor that performs for just about any purpose, even for high power visual. So that's how I settled on this particular design. It's a Stowaway on Steroids.

Rolando

P.S. I still love Mak-Newts and I think they are about as perfect an optical system that exists for visual only.*
And a nice size Mak-Cass for imaging only. But ne'er the twin shall meet to produce both results at the same time.

*ask me why

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


DFisch
 

Roland,  Thanks so much for the insights and thanks so much for producing  your "vision" scope, 
 I'm so glad you had your goals in mind when you set off on this project it sounds delightful
Tom Fischer, indy 

On Fri, May 20, 2022, 21:29 Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
helloo Astronuts,

Well, you have by now seen the 110 product page, and I have a few thoughts I want to pass along.

For the past 2 years I have been keenly aware of trends in this hobby, and have been listening to you active users as to what you want in a scope. So I have spent an inordinate amount of time working out the best optical system that would fulfill a lot of the most desirable things that everyone has requested. I'm leaving out Newts because it's not my specialty.

You want:
1)  sharp stars with essentially perfect color correction:   Apo Triplet Refractors, Mak-Newts, Mak-Cass
2)  High power visual instrument with highest contrast and Strehl:   Refractors, Mak-Newts, Mak-Cass with very small obstruction
3)  capable of imaging wide fields as well as the above:   Whoops, that leaves only Refractors and Maks with large obstruction
4)  High power high contrast visual + wide field imaging capability.   That leaves only Refractors.

I know that lots of people would like to have a high performance visual scope that has refractor-like contrast and a Mak-Newt fills the bill. But there is no way you can also use it for wide field imaging. As soon as you make the secondary size big enough to cover any modern imaging chip, there goes the visual contrast. Only the refractor can fulfill all uses at once. With today's newest glass compounds we can make a fast refractor that performs for just about any purpose, even for high power visual. So that's how I settled on this particular design. It's a Stowaway on Steroids.

Rolando

P.S. I still love Mak-Newts and I think they are about as perfect an optical system that exists for visual only.*
And a nice size Mak-Cass for imaging only. But ne'er the twin shall meet to produce both results at the same time.

*ask me why

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Dean Jacobsen
 

Thanks for your efforts Roland.  I have no doubt your new gift to the astronomy community will be as prized and sought after as your previous masterpieces.  I hope to have one someday.

Now that I know about the Fastmax 180s I am going to watch for one of those gems.  🙂  Maybe I can find one someday.
--
Dean Jacobsen
Astrobin Image Gallery - https://www.astrobin.com/users/deanjacobsen/


Jeff B
 

"*ask me why"

I'll bite.

Why?

Jeff

On Fri, May 20, 2022 at 9:29 PM Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
helloo Astronuts,

Well, you have by now seen the 110 product page, and I have a few thoughts I want to pass along.

For the past 2 years I have been keenly aware of trends in this hobby, and have been listening to you active users as to what you want in a scope. So I have spent an inordinate amount of time working out the best optical system that would fulfill a lot of the most desirable things that everyone has requested. I'm leaving out Newts because it's not my specialty.

You want:
1)  sharp stars with essentially perfect color correction:   Apo Triplet Refractors, Mak-Newts, Mak-Cass
2)  High power visual instrument with highest contrast and Strehl:   Refractors, Mak-Newts, Mak-Cass with very small obstruction
3)  capable of imaging wide fields as well as the above:   Whoops, that leaves only Refractors and Maks with large obstruction
4)  High power high contrast visual + wide field imaging capability.   That leaves only Refractors.

I know that lots of people would like to have a high performance visual scope that has refractor-like contrast and a Mak-Newt fills the bill. But there is no way you can also use it for wide field imaging. As soon as you make the secondary size big enough to cover any modern imaging chip, there goes the visual contrast. Only the refractor can fulfill all uses at once. With today's newest glass compounds we can make a fast refractor that performs for just about any purpose, even for high power visual. So that's how I settled on this particular design. It's a Stowaway on Steroids.

Rolando

P.S. I still love Mak-Newts and I think they are about as perfect an optical system that exists for visual only.*
And a nice size Mak-Cass for imaging only. But ne'er the twin shall meet to produce both results at the same time.

*ask me why

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Don Anderson
 

Very impressive Roland! I love my refractors for the very reasons you described. They fill a  in the visual/photographic world of this hobby. I am looking forward to using my brand new 92 Stowaway that I recently received. It fits perfectly on my AP900GOTO
Along with my other two gems! Will follow the development of the 110 Starfire with great interest.
Don
Astro Equipment | Flickr


Jeff B
 

"P.S. I still love Mak-Newts and I think they are about as perfect an optical system that exists for visual only.*
And a nice size Mak-Cass for imaging only. But ne'er the twin shall meet to produce both results at the same time."

*ask me why"

I'm still asking Roland.  I love MNs too for visual and always have one around, most recently my MW/APM MN86.

I would love to see you make a run of say, 8", 10" and maybe even a 12" MNs say, perhaps F5.6.

Jeff

On Sun, May 22, 2022 at 11:32 PM Don Anderson via groups.io <jockey_ca=yahoo.ca@groups.io> wrote:
Very impressive Roland! I love my refractors for the very reasons you described. They fill a  in the visual/photographic world of this hobby. I am looking forward to using my brand new 92 Stowaway that I recently received. It fits perfectly on my AP900GOTO
Along with my other two gems! Will follow the development of the 110 Starfire with great interest.
Don
Astro Equipment | Flickr


Roland Christen
 

Mak-Newts have only 3 optical surfaces aside from the diagonal flat. Those 3 surfaces are spherical, so can be produced with extremely high accuracy and smoothness. The field curvature is essentially flat for even the widest field eyepiece. Coma is a tiny fraction of what a parabolic Newtonian mirror produces and cannot be seen in any wide field or high power eyepiece. There is no spider diffraction to spoil a high power view of a bright planet. The front corrector glass is hard borosilica crown which is the least expensive glass available and is available in the highest internal quality. The tube is closed, so no dirt will fall on the mirror surface. Alignment (collimation) of the mirror is not an issue since it is spherical, so it can be permanently aligned at the factory.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff B <mnebula946@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Mon, May 23, 2022 8:41 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] 110 scope musings

"P.S. I still love Mak-Newts and I think they are about as perfect an optical system that exists for visual only.*
And a nice size Mak-Cass for imaging only. But ne'er the twin shall meet to produce both results at the same time."

*ask me why"

I'm still asking Roland.  I love MNs too for visual and always have one around, most recently my MW/APM MN86.

I would love to see you make a run of say, 8", 10" and maybe even a 12" MNs say, perhaps F5.6.

Jeff

On Sun, May 22, 2022 at 11:32 PM Don Anderson via groups.io <jockey_ca=yahoo.ca@groups.io> wrote:
Very impressive Roland! I love my refractors for the very reasons you described. They fill a  in the visual/photographic world of this hobby. I am looking forward to using my brand new 92 Stowaway that I recently received. It fits perfectly on my AP900GOTO
Along with my other two gems! Will follow the development of the 110 Starfire with great interest.
Don
Astro Equipment | Flickr

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Dean Jacobsen
 

On Mon, May 23, 2022 at 08:21 AM, Roland Christen wrote:
Mak-Newts have only 3 optical surfaces aside from the diagonal flat. Those 3 surfaces are spherical, so can be produced with extremely high accuracy and smoothness. The field curvature is essentially flat for even the widest field eyepiece. Coma is a tiny fraction of what a parabolic Newtonian mirror produces and cannot be seen in any wide field or high power eyepiece. There is no spider diffraction to spoil a high power view of a bright planet. The front corrector glass is hard borosilica crown which is the least expensive glass available and is available in the highest internal quality. The tube is closed, so no dirt will fall on the mirror surface. Alignment (collimation) of the mirror is not an issue since it is spherical, so it can be permanently aligned at the factory.
Yup, sounds good to me.

I have been looking around for someone [not mass market] who currently makes them in the 6" - 7" range but I haven't found anyone yet.
 
--
Dean Jacobsen
Astrobin Image Gallery - https://www.astrobin.com/users/deanjacobsen/


Greg Salyer
 

So why a Mak-Cas for imaging if you prefer a Mak-Newt for visual?

Greg

On May 23, 2022, at 11:21 AM, Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011@...> wrote:


Mak-Newts have only 3 optical surfaces aside from the diagonal flat. Those 3 surfaces are spherical, so can be produced with extremely high accuracy and smoothness. The field curvature is essentially flat for even the widest field eyepiece. Coma is a tiny fraction of what a parabolic Newtonian mirror produces and cannot be seen in any wide field or high power eyepiece. There is no spider diffraction to spoil a high power view of a bright planet. The front corrector glass is hard borosilica crown which is the least expensive glass available and is available in the highest internal quality. The tube is closed, so no dirt will fall on the mirror surface. Alignment (collimation) of the mirror is not an issue since it is spherical, so it can be permanently aligned at the factory.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff B <mnebula946@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Mon, May 23, 2022 8:41 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] 110 scope musings

"P.S. I still love Mak-Newts and I think they are about as perfect an optical system that exists for visual only.*
And a nice size Mak-Cass for imaging only. But ne'er the twin shall meet to produce both results at the same time."

*ask me why"

I'm still asking Roland.  I love MNs too for visual and always have one around, most recently my MW/APM MN86.

I would love to see you make a run of say, 8", 10" and maybe even a 12" MNs say, perhaps F5.6.

Jeff

On Sun, May 22, 2022 at 11:32 PM Don Anderson via groups.io <jockey_ca=yahoo.ca@groups.io> wrote:
Very impressive Roland! I love my refractors for the very reasons you described. They fill a  in the visual/photographic world of this hobby. I am looking forward to using my brand new 92 Stowaway that I recently received. It fits perfectly on my AP900GOTO
Along with my other two gems! Will follow the development of the 110 Starfire with great interest.
Don
Astro Equipment | Flickr

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


dvjbaja
 

It's a bit lost in history now, but my favorite Mak-Newt is the Vega 6" designed by Robert T. Jones. I had the pleasure of meeting him at his home one afternoon.  Friends were constructing an 8" at the time.  The 6" however was the sweet spot IMO. Portable, wonderful optics at f/4 and f/12.  Butter smooth helical focuser.  Complete with EQ mount as well.  ~$1600.  

jg


Roland Christen
 

Convenience of where to put the camera. No off-axis balancing required. Central obstruction will not be much more for a Cass.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Salyer <astronutcase@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Mon, May 23, 2022 11:37 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] 110 scope musings

So why a Mak-Cas for imaging if you prefer a Mak-Newt for visual?

Greg

On May 23, 2022, at 11:21 AM, Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011@...> wrote:


Mak-Newts have only 3 optical surfaces aside from the diagonal flat. Those 3 surfaces are spherical, so can be produced with extremely high accuracy and smoothness. The field curvature is essentially flat for even the widest field eyepiece. Coma is a tiny fraction of what a parabolic Newtonian mirror produces and cannot be seen in any wide field or high power eyepiece. There is no spider diffraction to spoil a high power view of a bright planet. The front corrector glass is hard borosilica crown which is the least expensive glass available and is available in the highest internal quality. The tube is closed, so no dirt will fall on the mirror surface. Alignment (collimation) of the mirror is not an issue since it is spherical, so it can be permanently aligned at the factory.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff B <mnebula946@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Mon, May 23, 2022 8:41 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] 110 scope musings

"P.S. I still love Mak-Newts and I think they are about as perfect an optical system that exists for visual only.*
And a nice size Mak-Cass for imaging only. But ne'er the twin shall meet to produce both results at the same time."

*ask me why"

I'm still asking Roland.  I love MNs too for visual and always have one around, most recently my MW/APM MN86.

I would love to see you make a run of say, 8", 10" and maybe even a 12" MNs say, perhaps F5.6.

Jeff

On Sun, May 22, 2022 at 11:32 PM Don Anderson via groups.io <jockey_ca=yahoo.ca@groups.io> wrote:
Very impressive Roland! I love my refractors for the very reasons you described. They fill a  in the visual/photographic world of this hobby. I am looking forward to using my brand new 92 Stowaway that I recently received. It fits perfectly on my AP900GOTO
Along with my other two gems! Will follow the development of the 110 Starfire with great interest.
Don
Astro Equipment | Flickr

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Roland Christen
 

What year was that?

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: dvjbaja <jpgleasonid@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Mon, May 23, 2022 11:50 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] 110 scope musings

It's a bit lost in history now, but my favorite Mak-Newt is the Vega 6" designed by Robert T. Jones. I had the pleasure of meeting him at his home one afternoon.  Friends were constructing an 8" at the time.  The 6" however was the sweet spot IMO. Portable, wonderful optics at f/4 and f/12.  Butter smooth helical focuser.  Complete with EQ mount as well.  ~$1600.  

jg

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


dvjbaja
 

Met Jones in 1990.  He was still working on NASA designs for highly efficient airfoils.